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#2926868 - 05/13/18 09:39 PM Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Hi. My iPad logged me out while I was trying to post and erased everything, so now I will try from the laptop instead.

I REALLY hate to start another "What keyboard should I buy" thread, so I'm SORRY. I sort of am in a tight spot right now.

So, I've been having freezing issues with my primary keyboard. We're working that out on another forum dedicated to that keyboard. But it's looking like one of my two main keyboards may need replacing. Not sure yet. I probably would need to buy used, because I probably can't afford to buy new.

Here is the data:

Main board: Yamaha Motif XF8
Second board: Yamaha YS200 - used only as a MIDI controller with the XF. No internal sounds used unless in case of an emergency (they don't exactly sound that great).

If the XF8 needs replacing, I need the following features in the replacement instrument:

1. Stong piano sound
2. 88 keys
3. Ability to split and layer multiple sounds. I typically need 6-7 sounds/voices/patches at any given time.
4. Ability to be used with a midi controller transmitting on a different channel in order to access other sounds in the keyboard.
5. Ability to set up and assign instruments to other midi channels for the external keyboard to play. I need to be able to set up splits to be played on the midi controller, but to be able to set these up from the main keyboard.
6. Wide variety of sounds
7. "Set list", "Master Mode", or similar function allowing me to recall voices/multis/combis/etc quickly from the front panel. In order. So on the Motif you can program any of the 16 buttons on the left front panel to recall a certain setup/sound/etc that you have. Then the next button can recall another one, etc. Very useful in live playing.
8. 120+ polyphony
9. Pitch-bend and modulation wheels (or the equivalent - joystick, etc)
10. Edit: I need an expression pedal input and to be able to have that pedal only affect some sounds in a layered setup, like have the pedal bring in a pad behind a piano, but not affect the piano soundís volume.


If the YS200 needs replacing, I need the following features in a replacement:

1. No less than 61 keys, no more than 76. Preferably semi-weighted or synth action.
2. Ability to select what midi channel the keyboard will transmit on. I don't need to set separate MIDI channels for each side of a split, I can set up splits etc on that channel on the main board.
3. 5-pin MIDI
4. Pitch & Mod wheels or equivalent
5. Built in sounds - they don't have to be anything fancy, just something for in case of an emergency that's passable. That said, I'm not going to object to having really nice sounds either. wink
6. Polyphony doesn't have to be that high, for perspective the YS200 only has 8 notes polyphony. Preferably 24+ though.
7. Must be powered by an AC adapter, PSU, or other electric source. No USB or bus-powered keyboards. I don't have a way to power them as I don't use a laptop or anything like that live.



I think that covers everything. I had my first post almost finished before I lost it, so I hope I didn't miss anything this time around.


What do you guys recommend that I look for?


Thanks a HUGE amount,

-Max Thompson


P.S. I don't have anything else that transmits on 5-pin MIDI or that has the features I need. So I can't drag out an old board or something. The best I can do otherwise is a YPG-235 + the YS200, but with no MIDI involved.



Edited by Mighty Motif Max (05/14/18 10:20 AM)
Edit Reason: Added criteria to first keyboardĒs requirement list
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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KC Island
#2926870 - 05/13/18 10:03 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1301
Loc: Southern Calif.
Budget for each?

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#2926875 - 05/14/18 12:58 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: zxcvbnm098]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1699
No need to apologise for the thread, Max. The budget question is critical - and in addition, I'd like to understand: how come you don't know which keyboard is failing?

Obvious contenders would be Yamaha MOXF (same soundset as your Motif) or Roland FA. Both come in 88-key (consensus: adequate action) or 61-key (consensus: disappointing action) versions - in addition the Roland FA07 is a 76-key variant with a different action that some like. All of these come with a wide range of high-quality sounds, good control (split/layer) capabilities (the Roland has improved significantly with a recent OS update) and pitch/mod controllers.

I don't know either of the boards in detail (I'm a Nord guy) but I would say if you're comfortable with the Motif then you should adapt to a MOXF very quickly. And the weight saving will be considerable!

Cheers, Mike.
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AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
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#2926888 - 05/14/18 04:22 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: stoken6]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
I agree, the MOXF8 is a likely choice for the first board. Same sounds and almost the same functionality as the XF8. The things you lose are not on the required capability list (i.e. aftertouch, sliders, big screen, etc.). The action isn't as nice, that's one of the trade-offs for the lower price and lower travel weight.

If for whatever reason that doesn't fit the bill, a Kronos 88 (or Kronos LS if you don't necessarily need hammer action). Kurzweil Forte would probably work as well. Maybe that Roland FA-08, though I'd double-check about its MIDI functionalities (and it does let you use its 16 pads as patch recall buttons... that capability may not be immediately obvious if you didn't know there was a setting to do that).

For the second board, there are plenty of possibilities, it probably comes down to some combination of action, price, and travel weight. In low to moderate price range, I'd look at Casio XW-P1, Yamaha MX61, Roland DS61, Korg Kross, for 61s. Kurzweil Artis7, Roland VR730 or FA-07 (different actions), Korg Krome for 7x keys.
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#2926903 - 05/14/18 06:01 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
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Loc: San Diego, CA USA
I had (have, actually) an XF7 and i added a MOXF6 for a fly-in travel board - it was a very easy integration as my XF programming could be imported, all I had to do was modify to reflect 61 keys vs 76 layout as I also do a lot of splits in different key zones.

Another Yammy option, if you choose to explore - instead of going down to MOXF, go up to Montage 8. double the cost but sonically it would be more than XF or MOXF. It doesnít have a true sequencer like XF, but that wasnít on your list as i saw. its expanded the Performance functionality to do what you want easier than XF or MOXF did. You could import your XF library as a starting point as you develop new Performance programs that take fuller advantage of the Montage. Depends on if you value that sonic delta, one nice thing on the MOXF is the weight if youíre gigging.
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#2926904 - 05/14/18 06:04 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
Toano88 Offline
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Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 2433
Loc: Toano, Virginia, USA
Another idea is the Kurzweil SP6 it is an excellent 4 zone controller for splits & layers, is easy to program, doesn't have extra functionality you won't probably use like a sequencer. And is cheaper than either the MOXF8 or FA-08. Weighs less than either of them too. Then you can spend more on the top board. I just bought one and sold a MOX8. No regrets.
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#2926918 - 05/14/18 07:20 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Toano88]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Another Yammy option, if you choose to explore - instead of going down to MOXF, go up to Montage 8.

It could be another good choice, though I'm not sure about how well it addresses the "ability to set up and assign instruments to other midi channels for the external keyboard to play." I seem to remember that there were some MIDI limitations of the Montage compared to the XF/MOXF, I don't know if that may come into play here?

Originally Posted By: Toano88
Another idea is the Kurzweil SP6.

My concern there is his request for "allowing me to recall voices/multis/combis/etc quickly from the front panel." Compared to the 16 buttons he's used to (and multiple banks of them!), the SP6 just has the 5 Favorite buttons, so then you need to go to the keypad, which then becomes multi-button patch recall instead of single-button. But if that's okay, maybe. The other concern is the 6-7 sounds at a time. It is unclear if that many have to be playable from the internal board, in which case I think the Kurz is limited to 4.
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#2926940 - 05/14/18 09:11 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
Toano88 Offline
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Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 2433
Loc: Toano, Virginia, USA
I found that pressing multi & user simultaneously takes me to every multi I created. So changing is dead simple, I name them after the song I created it for and I put them in setlist order. The 5 favorites are set for my most important sounds. The first 2 favorites are multi with 4 favorite pianos and the second is loaded with EP's I select them with zone buttons.
I have in effect 8 patches of sounds, and 3 important splits & layers. Also pressing variation in say a piano program gives you a pad. Each program has a variation. So while more buttons are desirable, its not a much of an issue as you might think. I also write the program number on my setlist. So for example, I can end one song then press 1045 before the drummer can count in the next song. I am used to doing that with my FA-08 for selecting sounds in a setlist, so it not an issue for me. The ability to route midi channels and midi outputs is where the SP6 shines. I could do it with the MOX8 but I wasn't simple or very intuitive. It only took me a couple of hours to do everything I needed for 2 bands I play with. The 6-7 sounds is an issue you are limited to 4 channels/zones internally, but not a issue if your using external midi sound sources.


Edited by Toano88 (05/14/18 09:35 AM)
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Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell

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#2926945 - 05/14/18 09:31 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: zxcvbnm098]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Budget for each?


This is why I would probably need to buy used.

Budget for the XF8 replacement is no higher than 1700. I would really prefer <$1500.

Budget for a YS200 replacement is no more than $600.


Iíve been looking at the old Triton Studio, for example, to replace the Motif. I donít know if I would want to go too much older than that due to polyphony limitations etc. Or the Triton LE to replace the YS200. I know itís not the newest and best, but I probably canít get the newest and best this time.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926946 - 05/14/18 09:39 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: stoken6]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: stoken6
No need to apologise for the thread, Max. The budget question is critical - and in addition, I'd like to understand: how come you don't know which keyboard is failing?


Stoken6, Iím going to link to the thread where weíve been trying to isolate the problem. Here: http://www.motifator.com/index.php/forum/viewthread/479763

Basically, one of the two keyboards is causing an issue, and we are trying to figure out which one. Weíre in the middle of it, but Iím trying to be proactive since I will need to replace whichever keyboard it is somewhat quickly.


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (05/14/18 10:13 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926947 - 05/14/18 09:46 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
GRollins Online   content
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 975
That link's not working for me.

Grey

EDIT: Apparently you were changing it, even as I was trying to get to it...it works now.


Edited by GRollins (05/14/18 09:47 AM)
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#2926948 - 05/14/18 09:51 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: GRollins]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: GRollins
That link's not working for me.

Grey

EDIT: Apparently you were changing it, even as I was trying to get to it...it works now.


Yes, for some reason it had two ďhttps://ď pieces in the actual link, but the displayed link didnít show that. The first link didnít work for me either. Good to hear that itís working now.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926949 - 05/14/18 09:53 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
I should mention that I am also open to a controller+rack module/desktop module combination.


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (05/14/18 09:54 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926951 - 05/14/18 10:12 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott


Originally Posted By: Toano88
Another idea is the Kurzweil SP6.

My concern there is his request for "allowing me to recall voices/multis/combis/etc quickly from the front panel." Compared to the 16 buttons he's used to (and multiple banks of them!), the SP6 just has the 5 Favorite buttons...

The other concern is the 6-7 sounds at a time. It is unclear if that many have to be playable from the internal board, in which case I think the Kurz is limited to 4.


The most of the buttons that I have ever used is 9. Iíve never needed to use multiple banks. I just overwrite the Master programs each time we have a new set. Since all the settings are in the multis themselves, nothing is lost.

The 6-7 sounds need to be from the main board, however, some of them can be accessed by MIDI. I.e, for an average setup, I need to have LH bass, and 2-3 sounds in the right hand in the main keyboard. Then generally two sounds on the upper keyboard, but the sounds themselves are from the main board. If I need to replace the main board, the upper board would still be the YS200, so I would not want to use internal sounds from it.

Does that clear it up?
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926952 - 05/14/18 10:15 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Toano88]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Toano88
Another idea is the Kurzweil SP6 it is an excellent 4 zone controller for splits & layers, is easy to program, doesn't have extra functionality you won't probably use like a sequencer. And is cheaper than either the MOXF8 or FA-08. Weighs less than either of them too. Then you can spend more on the top board. I just bought one and sold a MOX8. No regrets.


Thanks.

I will only need to replace one of the keyboards, as it is unlikely that they are both having issues. So I donít need to ďspend more on the top boardĒ since I would be replacing only the main keyboard. Vice versa is also true.


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (05/14/18 10:16 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926954 - 05/14/18 10:17 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
I edited my original post to reflect that I need an expression pedal input on a replacement for the Motif XF8.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926960 - 05/14/18 10:39 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Budget for each?


This is why I would probably need to buy used.

Budget for the XF8 replacement is no higher than 1700. I would really prefer <$1500.

Budget for a YS200 replacement is no more than $600.

Don't assume you'd have to go used. The MOXF8 and the SP6 discussed don't exceed $1700 new. (Though you could also get, for example, a used MOX8 for less.) The XWP1 is within budget for the other.
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#2926971 - 05/14/18 11:31 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I agree, the MOXF8 is a likely choice for the first board. Same sounds and almost the same functionality as the XF8. The things you lose are not on the required capability list (i.e. aftertouch, sliders, big screen, etc.). The action isn't as nice, that's one of the trade-offs for the lower price and lower travel weight.

If for whatever reason that doesn't fit the bill, a Kronos 88 (or Kronos LS if you don't necessarily need hammer action). Kurzweil Forte would probably work as well. Maybe that Roland FA-08, though I'd double-check about its MIDI functionalities (and it does let you use its 16 pads as patch recall buttons... that capability may not be immediately obvious if you didn't know there was a setting to do that).

For the second board, there are plenty of possibilities, it probably comes down to some combination of action, price, and travel weight. In low to moderate price range, I'd look at Casio XW-P1, Yamaha MX61, Roland DS61, Korg Kross, for 61s. Kurzweil Artis7, Roland VR730 or FA-07 (different actions), Korg Krome for 7x keys.


Thanks for this list Scott. In the first paragraph you mentioned some of the features that I donít have on my required list. I donít need a big screen, as long as I can get to what I need to some how, I can live with a small screen. Menu-diving is not an issue for me. Sliders, I donít have to have even though it would be nice. From my understanding, some boards knobs can be programmed to function like sliders would as far as different part volumes. Aftertouch, well, I canít say that Iíve ever used it much, except for an occasional pitch bend on a harmonica sound. Luckily for me. So as much as I would like to have it, I donít ďneedĒ it, and I canít get everything at this price point really. :-)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926973 - 05/14/18 11:40 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: MotiDave]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
I had (have, actually) an XF7 and i added a MOXF6 for a fly-in travel board - it was a very easy integration as my XF programming could be imported, all I had to do was modify to reflect 61 keys vs 76 layout as I also do a lot of splits in different key zones.

Another Yammy option, if you choose to explore - instead of going down to MOXF, go up to Montage 8. double the cost but sonically it would be more than XF or MOXF. It doesnít have a true sequencer like XF, but that wasnít on your list as i saw. its expanded the Performance functionality to do what you want easier than XF or MOXF did. You could import your XF library as a starting point as you develop new Performance programs that take fuller advantage of the Montage. Depends on if you value that sonic delta, one nice thing on the MOXF is the weight if youíre gigging.


A sequencer is one of those things that I would like to have, since I donít always have a computer around in the music building (actually, itís rare), but I can do without it if I canít have it.

Iím actually one of those people who doesnít really like the Montage that much. Iíve used one a few times, but I just donít connect to it. idk Some of the pads are neat, and the brass is better than my Motif. But not enough for me really. If I do need to replace the Motif, Iím not sure that I want to go with Yamaha again. I donít know, since my XF8 is only two years old. Thatís only an issue if the Motif is whatís gone bad.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2926992 - 05/14/18 02:16 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
gg22 Offline
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Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 97
I read the thread on Motifator - 5pinDIN gave a really good advice (as usual) on troubleshooting and I tend to agree the problem is most likely with the YS200 sending some MIDI data that overloads the Motif. Two years old Motif shouldn't have any issues for many more years, and if it does - Yamaha is known to fix issues even if the keyboard is out of warranty (in my own experience they fixed 15 yrs old keyboard for free).

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#2927009 - 05/14/18 03:53 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: gg22]
DulceLabs.com Offline
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I'd run a MIDI monitor app/program on the YS and see exactly what it's spitting out for data. Maybe a clue in there.

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#2927096 - 05/15/18 06:15 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: gg22]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1739
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: gg22
I read the thread on Motifator - 5pinDIN gave a really good advice (as usual) on troubleshooting and I tend to agree the problem is most likely with the YS200 sending some MIDI data that overloads the Motif. Two years old Motif shouldn't have any issues for many more years, and if it does - Yamaha is known to fix issues even if the keyboard is out of warranty (in my own experience they fixed 15 yrs old keyboard for free).


My XF7 is going on 6+ yo without a glitch to report yet. Only repair its had is when my former pedestal stand keys shelf collapsed sending it plummeting to the floor. I grabbed and slowed its demise, limiting damage to one chipped key tooth and a small dent in the baseplate - which fortunately is metal. Agree - if OPís XF8 is 2 yo, probably not an urgent reason to worry bout having to replace it for a HW fault based reason. Now if its just too heavy for gigging - now. THAT i would totally get.

OP could sell that XF8 now and more than fund a MOXF8 plus some additional gear imo
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#2927167 - 05/15/18 11:35 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: DulceLabs.com]
dglcomp Offline
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Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: DulceLabs.com

I'd run a MIDI monitor app/program on the YS and see exactly what it's spitting out for data. Maybe a clue in there.


Agreed, my Yamaha HS8 organ is poorly and will sometimes send streams of garbage out of the MIDI port and whilst the MIDI output still works it slows down anything it is connected to.

MIDI-OX would be a good place to start as it is free for personal use and should show up any silly business.
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The Studio - Roland: SH-201/U-110/S-330/TR-626/M-48, Akai: miniAK/S6000, Yamaha: DX9/HS8, Korg: 05R/W/AX10G, Alesis: Vortex MK1 WH CME: UF70 classic V2/WIDI, Behringer: DSP2024Px2/UMC204HD, ESI: 1010e

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#2927274 - 05/16/18 04:29 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: dglcomp]
BuckW Offline
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Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 247
Perhaps the combined budgets might make a nord stage 3 within reach? Probably much better organ(s).

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#2927314 - 05/16/18 08:24 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1699
Do you have a PC/Mac? Could you record MIDI data from the YS, and try and capture a crash event? Then see if playback from the PC causes the crash? That would be very interesting.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I should mention that I am also open to a controller+rack module/desktop module combination.

That wouldn't give you redundancy in the case of keyboard failure. Personally, even putting redundancy aside, I like having two playing surfaces in front of me, as that's one split point I don't have to remember. Plus two different actions piano vs organ/synth.

Originally Posted By: BuckW
Perhaps the combined budgets might make a nord stage 3 within reach? Probably much better organ(s).
I don't think the OP wants to replace two keyboards. (Presumably he doesn't even one to replace one). Plus the sum of the two figures quoted is $2300, which is way off a Nord 3.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
If I do need to replace the Motif, I&#146;m not sure that I want to go with Yamaha again. I don&#146;t know, since my XF8 is only two years old. That&#146;s only an issue if the Motif is what&#146;s gone bad.
If you want to move away from Yamaha, look carefully at the Roland FA range. What kind of music/sounds do you play?

Cheers, Mike.


Edited by stoken6 (05/16/18 08:24 AM)
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One or two keyboards.

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#2927332 - 05/16/18 09:29 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: stoken6]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: stoken6
Do you have a PC/Mac? Could you record MIDI data from the YS, and try and capture a crash event? Then see if playback from the PC causes the crash? That would be very interesting


I have a Mac, so it looks like Midi Monitor would be the way to go on that platform. Would I need to run this while Iím playing live? In that case I canít because my Mac is a desktop and we would not have space on stage for that. I have a PC laptop, but the only interface that I have that would connect 5-pin to a computer uses Thunderbolt, so it only works with my Mac.

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I should mention that I am also open to a controller+rack module/desktop module combination.

That wouldn't give you redundancy in the case of keyboard failure. Personally, even putting redundancy aside, I like having two playing surfaces in front of me, as that's one split point I don't have to remember. Plus two different actions piano vs organ/synth.


Good point.

Originally Posted By: stoken6
Originally Posted By: BuckW
Perhaps the combined budgets might make a nord stage 3 within reach? Probably much better organ(s).
I don't think the OP wants to replace two keyboards. (Presumably he doesn't even one to replace one). Plus the sum of the two figures quoted is $2300, which is way off a Nord 3.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
If I do need to replace the Motif, Iím not sure that I want to go with Yamaha again. I donít know, since my XF8 is only two years old. Thatís only an issue if the Motif is whatís gone bad.
If you want to move away from Yamaha, look carefully at the Roland FA range. What kind of music/sounds do you play?

Cheers, Mike.


I played both an FA06 and a FA08 back when I was deciding what main board to buy. I wonder what sorts of velocity curve settings they have available. I didnít like the keybed on the 08, but that mighty have been due to the fact that I had to play really hard to get any good response from the pianos. Otherwise it would be OK I guess. Iím not a fan of the synth section having endless sounds called ďSaw Lead 1Ē all the way to something like ďSaw Lead 13Ē instead of them actually having real names.

As far as what type of music I play, when I am actually gigging (not counting church stuff because thatís different, which I will get to), I play a lot of solo piano stuff. Sort of a mix of Jim Brickman type stuff, piano covers of pop tunes, and other times Ragtime and ďOldiesĒ, ďOldiesĒ being like ďOh, ĎDem Golden SlippersĒ and ď They Call the Wind MariahĒ. I gig as a solo performer. Most of the other stuff I play on accordion (Balkan music, polkas/waltzes, some Middle-Eastern stuff).

In church or at home, though, I play a much wider variety, due to there being a band. Pretty much everything except hard rock/metal. Not much funk music, but occasionally some stuff that requires clavinet and brass, sort of ďdisco-funkĒ. Lots of pop-type stuff too. Some ďmodernĒ upbeat stuff.

So sounds, mostly pianos, some organ, lots of strings, some brass (section, orchestral, solo, and synth, in that order), lots of pads, occasionally synth leads, synth ď compĒ types of sounds are fairly common, various musical effects (ie pads with motion nod other sounds going in the background), occasional sound effects like wind, ocean waves, and birds; electric and acoustic bass, a few synth basses, bells, and I actually use a fair amount of ethnic/world and reed instruments.

I don't use a lot of electric pianos, combo organs, synth strings, arp synth stuff, or weird sound effects.

I do like to have a drum track at my disposal and sometimes a bass track, but I can do without those if I have to.

When I have time, I will copy and paste the text from my promo flyer so that you can have more information. Between this and that, it should cover everything.
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2927416 - 05/16/18 08:16 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
I think I might want to save up for a Juno DS61 to have as backup. However, there's one small problem. I've been reading this thread about the Pitch Bend/Mod paddle that Roland uses. It looks like there is no way for me to put the mod all the way up or anywhere in between and have it stay there? If so, that makes it a no-go for me. The majority of my pad work uses a cutoff assigned to a mod wheel which needs to stay where I set it. Is that possible on any Roland (other than the RD-2000)?

It also looks like Korg has a "hold" function on their higher-end boards (the Kross has wheels) to replicate this effect somewhat?
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2927421 - 05/16/18 09:07 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I didnít like the keybed on the 08, but that mighty have been due to the fact that I had to play really hard to get any good response from the pianos.

So that could be another requirement, albeit one that's hard to quantify... an action that appeals to you.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
I think I might want to save up for a Juno DS61 to have as backup. However, there's one small problem. I've been reading this thread about the Pitch Bend/Mod paddle that Roland uses. It looks like there is no way for me to put the mod all the way up or anywhere in between and have it stay there? If so, that makes it a no-go for me.

...and possibly another requirement for your list!

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
The majority of my pad work uses a cutoff assigned to a mod wheel which needs to stay where I set it. Is that possible on any Roland (other than the RD-2000)?

The DS61 has a knob dedicated to cutoff, which will stay where you leave it.

Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
It also looks like Korg has a "hold" function on their higher-end boards (the Kross has wheels) to replicate this effect somewhat?

right.
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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2927423 - 05/16/18 09:42 PM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: AnotherScott]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 217
Loc: MN, U.S.
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott


Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
The majority of my pad work uses a cutoff assigned to a mod wheel which needs to stay where I set it. Is that possible on any Roland (other than the RD-2000)?

The DS61 has a knob dedicated to cutoff, which will stay where you leave it.



Can that knob be assigned to act as a modulation wheel for the sounds on a selected MIDI channel on the Motif? So assigned to transmit CC01 or whatever it is?


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (05/16/18 09:43 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, MSR100, PSS-470.

Titano Virtuoso Converter accordion, Resident Audio T4, Casio CT-370. Kimball Valencia/Broadway organs, Shure SM-57

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#2927441 - 05/17/18 04:29 AM Re: Need advice - one of two keyboards might need replacing [Re: Mighty Motif Max]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
Originally Posted By: Mighty Motif Max
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
The DS61 has a knob dedicated to cutoff, which will stay where you leave it.


Can that knob be assigned to act as a modulation wheel for the sounds on a selected MIDI channel on the Motif? So assigned to transmit CC01 or whatever it is?


Yes, but not simultaneously. At any given time, you can have that knob do one or the other, but not both together. You'd hit a button to toggle its function.

More specifically: There are 4 knobs, plus a button that allows you to rotate through three sets of functions for those knobs (for a total of 12 functions). The first two sets of functions are fixed (with the first function for the first knob being cutoff). The third set of functions is user assignable. Those default to EQ, but you can change one or more of them to MIDI CCs. So you could assign one of them (whether the same knob you use for cutoff, or one of the others) to CC01.

ETA: I just realized that even your question about filter cutoff control was probably more about being able to perform that function over MIDI to your other board (via the mod/CC01 function), rather than being able to apply it to the Roland's internal sound, and in that case, you could just leave the knobs in their assignable mode. But also, if/when you're just using the Roland as a MIDI controller for your other sounds, you could put the DS61 in its DAW mode instead, which allows you to assign MIDI functions of your choice, not just to those 4 knobs, but also to the 4 sliders.


Edited by AnotherScott (05/17/18 04:45 AM)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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