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#2926664 - 05/12/18 11:34 AM Looking for a Small Studio Mixer
HammondDave Offline
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Registered: 01/20/08
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Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Well, my Mackie finally gave up the farm. For some reason the right channel is kaput. Tried everything. Must be internal to the mixer.

Any suggestions for a small studio mixer? Only need 6 inputs Motif (2),Mojo (1), Mellotron (1), Vox (1), Gibson (1), and iPhone.

Should I stay with Mackie or go with a cheaper alternative? Or should I get real fancy?


Edited by HammondDave (05/12/18 11:35 AM)
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#2926666 - 05/12/18 11:45 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
timwat Offline
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Should I presume when you say studio mixer, you're not necessarily talking about a rack mount line mixer?

Obviously lots of choices out there, and I haven't heard them all. I can tell you there are audible differences between the mixers I own - which in theory there shouldn't be. A mixer is supposed to be as transparent and colorless as possible...but the output of my old Yamaha MG 10/2 (the old first generation) is far less colored than my (much more expensive) Allen & Heath Zed 10fx. The Alesis 8 channel line mixer is surprisingly clean to me, but the Ashley 308 is head and shoulders above that. In my recording rig, the iConnectAudio + seems very good (and has lots of innies & outies), but I don't know if anything they make suits your needs...I just saw the iPhone reference. And for the past year my live rig is always the Key Largo - Radial makes really great stuff.

But I don't know if any of this helps you at all. I never A/B'd different mixers in a controlled environment - these are all anecdotal findings after I already bought the stupid thing.

If there's a way to demo side-by-side prior to purchase, I guess I'd recommend that, as there are audible differences between mixers that I hadn't really presumed there would be...until I heard them.

Tim
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#2926669 - 05/12/18 12:11 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: timwat]
J. Dan Offline
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I don't think you can go wrong with Ashley. I have similarly good results to timwat with my Yamaha MG (PRO's: cheap). The A&H mixwizzard is a good mixer but I don't think they make one small enough for your application (in fact I don't know if they make them at all anymore). While I have not tried one, timwat' assessment is not the first I've heard of the ZED suggesting it is subpar compared to my experience with the mixwizzard. I had a Behringer that seemed ok but started exhibiting issues. Mackie and Alesis both decent but ere are better choices depending in picky you want to get. Don't get Rolls.

Edit: speaking solely analog above. There are digital options as well. Since you're talking studio, does it have to be a mixer? What about an audio interface that can accomodate your I/O and mix on the computer? Some can save settings and work offline (static mix).


Edited by J. Dan (05/12/18 12:15 PM)
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#2926679 - 05/12/18 01:28 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: J. Dan]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Yamaha 10/2.
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#2926684 - 05/12/18 02:16 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
Al Coda Offline
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Studiomixer ... to me that means recording, monitoring, connecting mono- and stereo- instruments, other playback devices, microphones etc..

What about Presonus ?

When you need just only a keyboard submixer, that´s a different story.
But I´d never use a 200 bucks mixer for studio-(recording/mix).

A.C.

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#2926691 - 05/12/18 02:58 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Behringer Xenyx 1202 would be perfect. No need to spend more money. The only reason to spend big bucks on a mixer is the preamp but with nothing but line level stuff going in there is no reason to spend more. $80 and you're done. You're welcome.




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#2926705 - 05/12/18 04:42 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan

The only reason to spend big bucks on a mixer is the preamp but with nothing but line level stuff going in there is no reason to spend more.


That´s BS !!!

It´s not only the preamps,- it´s also the summing of the input channels into a bus/ main outs !

Those cheap mixers are pretty well known for not doing a great summing job.
And that was already the case w/ the larger Mackies like VLZ 1624 and such.
I owned analog 8-bus consoles in the past and that Mackie (which I still have), so I know the difference and it had been confirmed by studio gear service techs long ago.

Also the Presonus I mentioned above isn´t the holy grail,- but somewhat "better" than those 100 -200 bucks "small mixers".

The best keyboard submixer is still the Speck XtraMix.
Unfortunately it´s out of production.

APB Dynasonics Prospec 1U and 2U are very good rackmout mixer units.
The 2U6M2S would be ideal for the OP.

Even expensive Midas consoles are still PA mixers.
A real good studio mixer is definitely a different league,- Neve, Amek Big by Langley, SSL, MCI, Harrison and so on.

Small Behringer mixers are jokes.

For only 8 channels max. I´m using an Ashly MX508.

A.C.

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#2926717 - 05/12/18 07:23 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: HammondDave

Should I stay with Mackie or go with a cheaper alternative? Or should I get real fancy?


I am not currently a fan of Mackie, although I was 25 years ago.
Never have been a fan of knockoff Mackie mixers, marketed under the Behringer brand. As always, YMMV.
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#2926745 - 05/13/18 04:42 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: davedoerfler]
stoken6 Offline
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@HammondDave sorry for the obvious question - can you be more precise with your requirements?
- You seem to need two stereo and four mono inputs, is that right?
- Any additional inputs? Mic pres?
- Is the "Gibson" input for a guitar (so hi-Z input?). Or will it be taking a line-level feed from a modeler/amp simulator or similar?
- What outputs do you need - just a stereo pair?
- Any auxes? Pre/post fade?
- Built-in effects?
- Other requirements? (Internal PSU? USB connectivity to act as an audio interface?)
- Preference for analog(ue) vs digital?

Cheers, Mike.
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#2926746 - 05/13/18 04:44 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: davedoerfler]
RudyS Online   content
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I bought a Mackie Profx8v2 about two years ago. I returned it because some hiss issues. Got another one. Same problem. Also, somehow I did not like the preamps in it (and I am definitely no audiophile..). I got a Yamaha mixer (mg series) instead and am very happy with it.
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#2926749 - 05/13/18 05:04 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: J. Dan]
RABid Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
I don't think you can go wrong with Ashley. ...


This. If you don't want to pay the new price find a good used one on Ebay. They are built solid and last forever if you take care of them. I have a couple Ashly LX-308B's. Great 1U mixer for a stereo keyboard setup.
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#2926754 - 05/13/18 07:17 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: RABid]
konaboy Offline
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Slightly hijacking the thread but what's a good mixer for a rack of stereo synths? Most mixers seem to have majority of channels as mono with mic preamps, phantom power etc which is completely useless for modern synths. Seems to me a typical 8 channel mixer might only have two channels with stereo line-ins.
cheers
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#2926762 - 05/13/18 07:52 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: konaboy]
zukskywalker Offline
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Tascam LM-8ST did the trick for me. It's a traightforward single rack unit that takes phone inputs for each side of each stereo input.


http://tascam.com/product/lm-8st/

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#2926765 - 05/13/18 08:12 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: stoken6]
HammondDave Offline
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Originally Posted By: stoken6
@HammondDave sorry for the obvious question - can you be more precise with your requirements?
- You seem to need two stereo and four mono inputs, is that right? CORRECT
- Any additional inputs? Mic NO NEED FOR MICS
- Is the "Gibson" input for a guitar (so hi-Z input?). Or will it be taking a line-level feed from a modeler/amp simulator or similar? THE GIBSON IS A G101 COMBO ORGAN
- What outputs do you need - just a stereo pair? YES
- Any auxes? Pre/post fade? NOPE
- Built-in effects?
- Other requirements? (Internal PSU? USB connectivity to act as an audio interface?) NOPE
- Preference for analog(ue) vs digital? NOPE

Cheers, Mike.
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#2926779 - 05/13/18 10:16 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: konaboy]
RABid Offline
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Originally Posted By: konaboy
Slightly hijacking the thread but what's a good mixer for a rack of stereo synths? Most mixers seem to have majority of channels as mono with mic preamps, phantom power etc which is completely useless for modern synths. Seems to me a typical 8 channel mixer might only have two channels with stereo line-ins.
cheers


The Ashly LX308B has 8 channels and all 8 feature L and R 1/4" inputs. That is why it is a great mixer for a rack/keyboard setup.
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#2926791 - 05/13/18 10:57 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: RABid]
dglcomp Offline
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Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 18
another option for stereo synths is the Roland M-480, from the 90's and has 24 stereo or dual mono inputs, an extra stereo input on the front, 6 stereo effect returns + bus inputs for the main, sub, monitor, and efx/aux sends. no EQ but 6 sends/returns for effects. Fits in 6U of rack space so relatively compact, does make much use of stacked potentiometers if that matters.

http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/roland-m-480-217310.jpg
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/683669/Roland-M-480.html


Edited by dglcomp (05/13/18 11:14 AM)
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#2926807 - 05/13/18 12:09 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
stoken6 Offline
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Originally Posted By: HammondDave
THE GIBSON IS A G101 COMBO ORGAN
Understood - I should have studied your sig more closely.

For a "conventional"/"mainstream" chanalogue oice, Yamaha MG10 fits the bill. Four mono + three stereo channels, good reputation. I've used one for a little PA mixer, and it's fine. There are more upmarket choices of course.

If you want rackmount (and the ergonomics may not be as good) then Ashly is obviously a great brand. But I'm guessing that in a studio context, you'd prefer more room/better ergonomics than a 1U rackmount. (By the way, if you want your Yamaha with a side of faders, move up to the MG12 or over to the MG10XUF).

Good luck,

Cheers, Mike.
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#2926811 - 05/13/18 12:55 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: dglcomp]
dongna Offline
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Registered: 12/21/05
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Originally Posted By: dglcomp
another option for stereo synths is the Roland M-480, from the 90's and has 24 stereo or dual mono inputs, ...

There were also smaller versions-- M-160 and M-120 maybe?-- that were fewer channels as I recall. More in line with what was requested.

They are quite old at this point, though. I think I agree with the suggestion of using an audio interface with the appropriate number of inputs.

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#2926813 - 05/13/18 01:07 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: dongna]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
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I got a deal on the MG16XU which is a very good mixer. There are specifics that can be found in the specs though distortion is sometimes hard to understand, and for instance noise specs need to be interpreted correctly for the situation and purpose at hand.

T

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#2926819 - 05/13/18 02:43 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: dongna]
dglcomp Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By: dongna
Originally Posted By: dglcomp
another option for stereo synths is the Roland M-480, from the 90's and has 24 stereo or dual mono inputs, ...

There were also smaller versions-- M-160 and M-120 maybe?-- that were fewer channels as I recall. More in line with what was requested.

They are quite old at this point, though. I think I agree with the suggestion of using an audio interface with the appropriate number of inputs.


The reason for not recommending the smaller ones is that the M-480 is more suited to stereo instruments as it allows for two inputs per channel meaning you then only have 1 volume knob that controls both the left and right channel (although the input gain controls are still separate) making it better for stereo sources, also, when compared to the M16/160 and above it is not much larger but you get much more inputs, primarily as some of the smaller range use sliders for volume rather than knobs.

Plus I was aiming this more to another poset other than the OP who was asking for a rack mixer for a rack of synths.

As for the others in the range there is the, M-120, M-12E, M-160, M16E, M240(R), M-480 with 12/16/24/48 inputs respectively. E versions add EQ, the M-16E adds XLR microphone inputs and phantom power, and the M-240 is a desktop mixer with a rack mount 'R' version.

Another option would be one of the new low end midas mixers, a sort of Behringer XENYX meets Midas, not used one myself but the reviews seem very favourable and being part of Musics' higher end range will get the 10 year warranty.

http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Midas/Mixers/Analog/DM12/p/P0BGA

Of course the modern option would be something like an X32 rack or XR18, the x32 rack having up to 24 inputs in 3u.



Edited by dglcomp (05/13/18 02:51 PM)
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#2926832 - 05/13/18 04:20 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Well Dave, I know that you don't need a bunch of inputs. But I myself have been considering one of these mixers, and this one has multitrack USB recording, sort of like an audio interface. It's a 12-channel. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/...ce-with-effects
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#2926836 - 05/13/18 04:56 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: konaboy]
DMAC Offline
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Hi, I know where you are coming from Konaboy, I am faced with the same problem, so, I just ordered yesterday a Behringer X1832 USB 18 Input 3/2 Bus Mixer with EFX & USB. It has 4 stereo Line In Inputs which suited my needs now. It also has 6 inputs for Mics etc.& other good features. The price was right at $375.00 Canadian. I did a lot of searching and this Behringer model was the best I could come up with for my needs. I don't think there are any Keyboard Mixers on the market that could run 4 or more keyboards in stereo, out there. Would be interesting to know.

Cheers
Donnie
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#2926838 - 05/13/18 05:08 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: DMAC]
DMAC Offline
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Originally Posted By: DMAC
H I don't think there are any Keyboard Mixers on the market that could run 4 or more keyboards in stereo, out there. Would be interesting to know.

Cheers
Donnie


Woops, I stand corrected, There are some out there,,, read the posts after I submitted mine.
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#2926844 - 05/13/18 05:33 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: timwat]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 895
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: timwat
The Alesis 8 channel line mixer is surprisingly clean to me, but the Ashley 308 is head and shoulders above that.

As it happens I also own both of these, and support Tim's commentary. I like the Alesis a lot and it was good value for money but my unit was a little noisy. The Ashly, which I purchased a couple of years ago after doing a lot of research (including in this forum), is just excellent.

That said, I use it live, not in studio, so it would depend if the rack configuration is convenient for your purposes Dave.

I'm running a maximum of four keyboards, an iPad and an iPhone through it - all in stereo.

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#2926847 - 05/13/18 06:03 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: CowboyNQ]
HammondDave Offline
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Actually I prefer a non-rack unit as I like to have it close to my boards and the faders plainly visible.
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#2926902 - 05/14/18 05:54 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
Toano88 Offline
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I'm using a Yamaha MG10XU, works great for me. Small form factor, quiet, effects if I choose, and didn't cost much ($199).
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#2926921 - 05/14/18 07:27 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Toano88]
SteinwayB Offline
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Anyone have experience with the Samson SM10? I like the flexible headphone routing. I'm thinking if I want to go ITE monitoring, I could feed the FOH outputs to this mixer and send that mix to my headphone output and send the keyboards alone to the main outputs which would go to FOH. My concern is the sound quality and durability of this unit since it is only $200. Doesn't look like any of the higher end 1 RU units like the Ashley have this routing flexibility.

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#2926970 - 05/14/18 11:17 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: SteinwayB]
rickp Offline
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Posts: 304
If I had your requirements, I'd go with this digital Soundcraft; I use the 24 channel version for our bands with my boards running first through a Key Largo, and have often thought the small version would be handy for solo use.

You could control it with the iPhone you mentioned, and easily set up and then recall scenes with one click with no worries about having to readjust gains, EQ and channel knobs after transport. You would need a couple 1/4>XLR adapters (although if you don't mind the extra size and $100, there is a 16 channel version with 8 1/4-XLR combis).

Would also be great for IEM use if you want to use one or two inputs for a monitor mix from FOH and season to taste using the solo function and mixing the various channels into the headphone jack as desired.

The effects and extra outputs could come in handy too if you ever wanted to use it as a small FOH board with a monitor or two.
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#2926999 - 05/14/18 02:52 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: MojoGuyPan]
The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
The only reason to spend big bucks on a mixer is the preamp but with nothing but line level stuff going in there is no reason to spend more.


I'm an EE with 30+ years experience and this is the biggest pile of bovine excrement I have ever read.

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#2927003 - 05/14/18 03:22 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: The Real MC]
jeffinpghpa Offline
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I like my Allen & Heath Zed 10
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#2927004 - 05/14/18 03:39 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: The Real MC]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
The only reason to spend big bucks on a mixer is the preamp but with nothing but line level stuff going in there is no reason to spend more.


I'm an EE with 30+ years experience and this is the biggest pile of bovine excrement I have ever read.


You need to read more. laugh

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#2927027 - 05/14/18 06:15 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Markyboard]
WesG Offline
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Should I dig up the literature about the special patch cables made with directional copper?
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#2927037 - 05/14/18 07:06 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: The Real MC]
Michael Wright Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
I'm an EE with 30+ years experience and this is the biggest pile of bovine excrement I have ever read.
roll
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#2927038 - 05/14/18 07:10 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: WesG]
timwat Offline
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Originally Posted By: WesG
Should I dig up the literature about the special patch cables made with directional copper?


I plugged those in the wrong way and ended up constipated for a week.
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#2927039 - 05/14/18 07:12 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: SteinwayB]
Michael Wright Offline
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Originally Posted By: SteinwayB
Anyone have experience with the Samson SM10? I like the flexible headphone routing. I'm thinking if I want to go ITE monitoring, I could feed the FOH outputs to this mixer and send that mix to my headphone output and send the keyboards alone to the main outputs which would go to FOH. My concern is the sound quality and durability of this unit since it is only $200. Doesn't look like any of the higher end 1 RU units like the Ashley have this routing flexibility.
I have one and it's routing options are great. I love the unit, but unfortunately one of the channels is kaput and it's in the shop to see if it's even worth spending money on. I am going with the Key Largo into an Ashly 308 to facilitate use of my iem's.
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#2927060 - 05/14/18 09:35 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
HammondDave Offline
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Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: rickp
If I had your requirements, I'd go with this digital Soundcraft; I use the 24 channel version for our bands with my boards running first through a Key Largo, and have often thought the small version would be handy for solo use.

You could control it with the iPhone you mentioned, and easily set up and then recall scenes with one click with no worries about having to readjust gains, EQ and channel knobs after transport. You would need a couple 1/4>XLR adapters (although if you don't mind the extra size and $100, there is a 16 channel version with 8 1/4-XLR combis).

Would also be great for IEM use if you want to use one or two inputs for a monitor mix from FOH and season to taste using the solo function and mixing the various channels into the headphone jack as desired.

The effects and extra outputs could come in handy too if you ever wanted to use it as a small FOH board with a monitor or two.


This looks very interesting.
_________________________
'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo

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#2927090 - 05/15/18 05:17 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 304
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Originally Posted By: rickp
If I had your requirements, I'd go with this digital Soundcraft; I use the 24 channel version for our bands with my boards running first through a Key Largo, and have often thought the small version would be handy for solo use.

You could control it with the iPhone you mentioned, and easily set up and then recall scenes with one click with no worries about having to readjust gains, EQ and channel knobs after transport. You would need a couple 1/4>XLR adapters (although if you don't mind the extra size and $100, there is a 16 channel version with 8 1/4-XLR combis).

Would also be great for IEM use if you want to use one or two inputs for a monitor mix from FOH and season to taste using the solo function and mixing the various channels into the headphone jack as desired.

The effects and extra outputs could come in handy too if you ever wanted to use it as a small FOH board with a monitor or two.


This looks very interesting.


A 4-band parametric EQ on each channel and 31-band graphic EQ are great features I forgot to mention before. More info and some detailed tutorial vids are on Soundcraft's product site.
_________________________
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#2927109 - 05/15/18 07:06 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
MojoGuyPan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Mainland Florida
I like how HammondDave seemed happy with the sound and form of his small, inexpensive Mackie mixer except for it dying on him and asked whether or not to get another Mackie or something cheaper and you guys are telling him he needs to get an $1800 rack mounted mixer.

I'm sure that the Ashley mixers are better in a recording studio and it is probably what they use at AIR Studios but that is not what HammondDave seems to be looking for.

He is looking for a replacement to his Mackie and the Behringer Xenyx is inexpensive and sounds comparable to the Mackies. The mic pres on the Xenyx and the Mackie are weak but he is just using it to mix keyboards.

I will say that I find the Soundcraft to have better preamps but for just boards there is no reason not to go for the Xenyx.

I myself have a Soundcraft because I do have some mics going through it. It's good live but obviously there is better if you need something for a recording studio.

You guys recommending mixers $1500 more than he is looking to spend are ridiculous.



Edited by MojoGuyPan (05/15/18 07:07 AM)

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#2927117 - 05/15/18 07:36 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
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Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4014
People look for all kind of stuff in a mixer, which isn't necessarily a "studio" sound. That could entail transparency, certain abilities to create (analog) signal bands, strip and master section "curves" that create a mix with depth from pre-conditioned tracks, etc. I also like the added possibilities of EQ, multiple compression facilities, powerful effects, signal routing (aux-s, sub busses) signal types it can handle, impedances.

The Soundcraft is a lot of power for the money, I could be convinced those DBX effects and Lexicon reverbs actually work, which could be quite powerful. But, it looks like it's 44.1 kHz sampling frequency, and it mixes digital (not digital controlled analog) which certainly at only at 44.1 S/s would NOT be acceptable to me. Also: no digital sync with digital effects or recording devices/interfaces.

T

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#2927125 - 05/15/18 08:16 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Theo Verelst]
mwheels Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 63
Loc: Ohio, USA
Another vote for the Yamaha MG10XU, gets the job done nicely for me.
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#2927180 - 05/15/18 12:50 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Theo Verelst]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 304
Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
But, it looks like it's 44.1 kHz sampling frequency, and it mixes digital (not digital controlled analog) which certainly at only at 44.1 S/s would NOT be acceptable to me. Also: no digital sync with digital effects or recording devices/interfaces.

T

Right, Theo, I suppose part of the limitations of what $300 will get you . . . moving on up though, the $100 more expensive Ui16 offers stereo recording to a USB drive, and the $1,000 Ui24R with 20 Studer-designed preamps allows multitracking, simultaneously sending all 22 inputs to DAW and recording the stereo mix onto a USB drive. I haven't tried mine as a DAW interface; I'm still using an old school Mackie Onyx 1640i firewire mixer for that.

For us, the beauty of the Ui24R in live performance use is the wide array of easily customized effects options and EQ per channel, excellent feedback suppression tools, channel-selectable phantom power, stellar vocal mic sound (Shure Beta 87 a's or c's mate well with this mixer), the reassurance and convenience of one-click show/venue settings selection when sound check time is limited or nonexistent (it happens) and built-in wifi - but most particularly the ability to allow everyone to mix their own IEM via iPad while pushing clean, crisp sound out front. If there are any compromises in the sampling frequency, they don't seem to be readily apparent in that context.
_________________________
Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES P105 MX49 CP4 CLP645 / Hammond SK1 / Nord Stage3 88
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#2927288 - 05/16/18 06:11 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: rickp
Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
But, it looks like it's 44.1 kHz sampling frequency, and it mixes digital (not digital controlled analog) which certainly at only at 44.1 S/s would NOT be acceptable to me. Also: no digital sync with digital effects or recording devices/interfaces.

T

Right, Theo, I suppose part of the limitations of what $300 will get you . . . moving on up though, the $100 more expensive Ui16 offers stereo recording to a USB drive, and the $1,000 Ui24R with 20 Studer-designed preamps allows multitracking, simultaneously sending all 22 inputs to DAW and recording the stereo mix onto a USB drive. I haven't tried mine as a DAW interface; I'm still using an old school Mackie Onyx 1640i firewire mixer for that.

For us, the beauty of the Ui24R in live performance use is the wide array of easily customized effects options and EQ per channel, excellent feedback suppression tools, channel-selectable phantom power, stellar vocal mic sound (Shure Beta 87 a's or c's mate well with this mixer), the reassurance and convenience of one-click show/venue settings selection when sound check time is limited or nonexistent (it happens) and built-in wifi - but most particularly the ability to allow everyone to mix their own IEM via iPad while pushing clean, crisp sound out front. If there are any compromises in the sampling frequency, they don't seem to be readily apparent in that context.



Does the 16r have these same Efx and feedback suppression features?


Edited by HammondDave (05/16/18 06:12 AM)
_________________________
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#2927295 - 05/16/18 06:44 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4014
I saw the cheap model records, even in 24/32 bit, too, with a sw upgrade.

It's like, I've got more than a few options to push signals through very good 44.1 digitization, and seldom I can agree that it satisfies me. So I though , before others try for years and find out the same, maybe some would like to know there are usually some serious degradations unless you know very well what you're doing and us extensive intermediate processing at 96kHz for instance.

It's alright to be ok with a flexible handy to use live setup, but I can't stand the sound of most I'm hearing, even if it isn't wrong for the most part or damaging, it just takes the fun away for me.

If you use analogue studio monitoring, I think you want a clear, transparent sounding analog mixer, with some eq and maybe some more signal processing if it's neutral sounding. I dare you to take a goof signal source, maybe a decent analog synth, and imitate a decent analog strip eq, a little shelving low boost for instance. No way your digital will sound alike, strange but true, and I prefer that neutrality and think it should be considered normal still, even in this time of upcoming potent cheap digital mixing!

T

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#2927306 - 05/16/18 07:50 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Markyboard]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5181
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Markyboard


You need to read more. laugh


(removes eyeglasses) Are these things working...?

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#2927326 - 05/16/18 08:54 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 304
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Originally Posted By: rickp
Originally Posted By: Theo Verelst
But, it looks like it's 44.1 kHz sampling frequency, and it mixes digital (not digital controlled analog) which certainly at only at 44.1 S/s would NOT be acceptable to me. Also: no digital sync with digital effects or recording devices/interfaces.

T

Right, Theo, I suppose part of the limitations of what $300 will get you . . . moving on up though, the $100 more expensive Ui16 offers stereo recording to a USB drive, and the $1,000 Ui24R with 20 Studer-designed preamps allows multitracking, simultaneously sending all 22 inputs to DAW and recording the stereo mix onto a USB drive. I haven't tried mine as a DAW interface; I'm still using an old school Mackie Onyx 1640i firewire mixer for that.

For us, the beauty of the Ui24R in live performance use is the wide array of easily customized effects options and EQ per channel, excellent feedback suppression tools, channel-selectable phantom power, stellar vocal mic sound (Shure Beta 87 a's or c's mate well with this mixer), the reassurance and convenience of one-click show/venue settings selection when sound check time is limited or nonexistent (it happens) and built-in wifi - but most particularly the ability to allow everyone to mix their own IEM via iPad while pushing clean, crisp sound out front. If there are any compromises in the sampling frequency, they don't seem to be readily apparent in that context.



Does the 16r have these same Efx and feedback suppression features?


Looking at the Soundcraft product site for the Ui12 and Ui16, it looks like both have the same effects and feedback suppression tools (AFS2) that we use on the Ui24 (by the way, the DigiTech Amp Modeling on channels 1 and 2 make for great experiments with EP patches):

"The Ui Series mixers feature cross-platform compatibility with iOS, Android, Windows, Mac OS, and Linux devices, and can use up to 10 control devices simultaneously. In addition, the Ui12 and Ui16 each feature built-in HARMAN signal processing from dbx, DigiTech and Lexicon, including dbx AFS2, DigiTech Amp Modeling, and more. Both models feature fully recallable and remote-controlled mic gain and phantom power, along with 4-band parametric EQ, high-pass filter, compressor, de-esser and noise gate on input channels."

"Both mixers offer 31-band graphic EQ, noise gate and compressor on all outputs, plus real-time frequency analyser (RTA) on inputs and outputs. Built in are three dedicated Lexicon FX busses: Reverb, Delay and Chorus. In addition, mixer controls include Subgroups, Mute groups and View groups, among others. The Ui Series mixers feature full Show/Snapshot recallability with channel recall safes, while security lockout features allow customization of device access to only specific functions and mixes if needed. Both mixers also offer independent network interfaces on board for simultaneous control by Wi-Fi and Ethernet, plus a floor-ready rugged chassis for live applications."

_________________________
Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES P105 MX49 CP4 CLP645 / Hammond SK1 / Nord Stage3 88
QSC K8.2s K10.2s KSubs / SoundcraftUi24 / SSv3 / GK MB112 MB115 MB210 Neo410

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#2927403 - 05/16/18 05:49 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
HammondDave Offline
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Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Can you assign different effects for different channels? For instance, I may wish to bathe my analogue Mellotron in Tony Clark Reverb and at the same time run my analogue MiniMoog through delay.
_________________________
'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo

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#2927451 - 05/17/18 05:47 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 304
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Can you assign different effects for different channels? For instance, I may wish to bathe my analogue Mellotron in Tony Clark Reverb and at the same time run my analogue MiniMoog through delay.

Yes, effects are independently applied by fader per channel (and on each aux out too), and there is a master fader for each effect as well. There is also a foot switch jack that I think can be assigned on/off to an effect - I haven’t played with that so I’m not entirely sure how that works.

The Tablet Software Demo screen simulation will give you a pretty good idea of how the software works (btw, “software” is a bit of a misnomer in that there is nothing to download or install; any device with WiFi capability can access the mixer - passwords can be assigned to limit access or restrict scope of rights). On the software screen, these basics will give you a lot of functionality: 1) toggle the mix/gain button - swipe l&r to navigate channels; 2) touch and hold a channel label for various channel setup options; 3) select a channel by touching its fader level button or by touching its label, then press “edit” to get eq, effects, dynamics and aux assign buttons/screens (channels 1 and 2 also have amp sims). After that, the rest is fairly intuitive. The user guides and vids on the product site provide a lot of depth when you want to dig in further.

_________________________
Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES P105 MX49 CP4 CLP645 / Hammond SK1 / Nord Stage3 88
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#2927470 - 05/17/18 07:47 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
Ross Ward Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 210
Loc: Tulsa, OK
For just a standalone, inexpensive analog mixer, I like the way the Yamaha MG/XU mixers sound. A few years ago, I demo'd one next to an Allen & Heath ZED, which I fully expected to wipe the floor with the Yamaha. The ZED was warmer, but I was pleasantly surprised by the clarity of the Yamaha, especially in the low end. It was tighter and punchier. Definitely a cleaner, sound, but not sterile, which is how I tend to describe Mackie/Behringer. The build quality could be a little better, but it's pretty par for the course for the price point, so it's hard to make a big deal of it. They're also built better than they used to be.

I have been pleasantly surprised at both the sound quality and feature set of the Soundcraft Ui mixers. If you're looking for something where you can quickly grab a knob or fader, they're definitely not the right choice. But for the price, man...they're pretty hard to beat. I can't speak to the quality of the onboard effects, because I've not needed them in the scenarios that I've used the Ui series. I'm also not sure that this has been completely explained yet, but the interface is via web browser on any device – so, on an iPhone, for example, you'd access the mixer via Safari (or other browser), rather than download a dedicated app. The mixer creates its own wireless network, so you also would also have to join the Ui's network to control. Not sure if you use any other wifi networks as part of your rig, so this might be a dealbreaker. But yes, play around with the demo that rickp posted to see what all features are available.

Let us know what you end up with.

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#2927498 - 05/17/18 09:21 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Ross Ward]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Hmmmm... would there be any interference between my Mojo 61 wireless editor and the Soundcraft Ui16?

May have to have both my iPad and iPhone to run both...


Edited by HammondDave (05/17/18 09:22 AM)
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#2927500 - 05/17/18 09:24 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Also noticed that the mixer is bundled on Amazon with various microphones, cables, bags, etc for the same price as Sweetwater’s for the mixer alone.
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#2928017 - 05/19/18 11:36 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
So I am now reconsidering the Soundcraft Ui16. It may be too complex for my needs. I just want a mixer that I can turn on when I walk into my studio and not fuss with signing into Wi-Fi . Sometimes I don’t carry my iPhone around with me and I can just imagine how pissed I would be when entering my studio and realizing that I have to find my iPhone.
_________________________
'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo

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#2928018 - 05/19/18 11:39 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
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Loc: St. Louis, MO
Yamaha MG
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2928020 - 05/19/18 11:43 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: J. Dan]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8885
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
If you can, try to find a small mixer that has faders vs. knobs for channel levels, as you'll have much more precise control over levels. I'm not up on the latest models from all of the vendors, but at one time there were a few that met this need.

I've always gone the next size up in such cases, to avoid the knobs, as experience showed me how problematic they are -- especially when adjusting in real-time at a gig. The audience can get a nasty surprise due to the coarseness of the levels when using a knob!
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
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#2928026 - 05/20/18 12:46 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: J. Dan]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Yamaha MG


Yup. That’s where it looks like I am heading to...
12 channel...
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#2928028 - 05/20/18 01:20 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: MojoGuyPan]
CowboyNQ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 895
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
I like how...you guys are telling him he needs to get an $1800 rack mounted mixer.

I'm sure that the Ashley mixers are better in a recording studio and it is probably what they use at AIR Studios but that is not what HammondDave seems to be looking for.

I'm just excited to have finally discovered a product that apparently costs three times as much in the US as it does here in Australia.

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#2928033 - 05/20/18 03:02 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: CowboyNQ]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5976
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ

I'm just excited to have finally discovered a product that apparently costs three times as much in the US as it does here in Australia.


Hey Paul - plenty of vital products here that match your criterion:



wave

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#2928034 - 05/20/18 03:21 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Markyboard]
CowboyNQ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 895
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Ah, that warms the cockles of my South Australian heart!

Cheers Mark - I'll raise a glass in your honour.

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#2929159 - 05/24/18 07:57 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: CowboyNQ]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
OK... so I took advantage of the Memorial Day sale and purchased the Soundcraft Ui16. Wish me luck.
_________________________
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#2929184 - 05/25/18 12:11 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1944
Congrats HammondDave, and please report back with your opinion.

Cheers, Mike.
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One or two keyboards.

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#2929187 - 05/25/18 12:22 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: stoken6]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8885
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Yammie MG's are great bang-for-buck, and easy to use. I only recently sold my 16-channel model to a drummer who needed it more than I do. I prefer the older blue models to the newer black ones, as they're easier to read in typical stage and studio lighting (which usually is non-existent), and also find the extra EQ on the older ones more useful than having a limiter on each channel.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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#2929194 - 05/25/18 03:13 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4014
Well adjusted the Soundcraft should be able to do some serious stuff, it appears to be made that way with the serious processing blocks.

I think the MG (I'm talking about the MG16XU specifically) indeed is incredible value for the money, it might take a long time to actually use the subtleties of such a Yamaha, but at least they're there.

Theo

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#2929210 - 05/25/18 05:51 AM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
rickp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 304
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
So I am now reconsidering the Soundcraft Ui16. It may be too complex for my needs. I just want a mixer that I can turn on when I walk into my studio and not fuss with signing into Wi-Fi . Sometimes I don’t carry my iPhone around with me and I can just imagine how pissed I would be when entering my studio and realizing that I have to find my iPhone.

Originally Posted By: HammondDave
OK... so I took advantage of the Memorial Day sale and purchased the Soundcraft Ui16. Wish me luck.

Congrats, I think you'll enjoy it.

Just wanted to mention, in my experience, unlike the Mackie DL mixer we used previously, there is no requirement that the Soundcraft Ui mixer "mate" with a controlling device prior to use; it will operate incorporating whatever scene was in effect when it was turned off.

So if your iPhone isn't handy when you want to fire up your rig, no worries.

That feature is useful too if someone is controlling the mix out front and happens to wander beyond the range of the wifi; the mixer will hold its current settings until a controlling unit changes them.
_________________________
Kawai KG-2D / Yamaha CP33 S90ES P105 MX49 CP4 CLP645 / Hammond SK1 / Nord Stage3 88
QSC K8.2s K10.2s KSubs / SoundcraftUi24 / SSv3 / GK MB112 MB115 MB210 Neo410

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#2929370 - 05/25/18 06:21 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: rickp]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 7180
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: rickp
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
So I am now reconsidering the Soundcraft Ui16. It may be too complex for my needs. I just want a mixer that I can turn on when I walk into my studio and not fuss with signing into Wi-Fi . Sometimes I don’t carry my iPhone around with me and I can just imagine how pissed I would be when entering my studio and realizing that I have to find my iPhone.

Originally Posted By: HammondDave
OK... so I took advantage of the Memorial Day sale and purchased the Soundcraft Ui16. Wish me luck.

Congrats, I think you'll enjoy it.

Just wanted to mention, in my experience, unlike the Mackie DL mixer we used previously, there is no requirement that the Soundcraft Ui mixer "mate" with a controlling device prior to use; it will operate incorporating whatever scene was in effect when it was turned off.

So if your iPhone isn't handy when you want to fire up your rig, no worries.

That feature is useful too if someone is controlling the mix out front and happens to wander beyond the range of the wifi; the mixer will hold its current settings until a controlling unit changes them.


Yup. That was my biggest worry..., the cats at Sweetwater assured me that you don’t need it hooked up to Wi-Fi to operate. It remembers its last preset. That’s all I needed... plus the sale did not hurt.
_________________________
'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo

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#2929626 - 05/27/18 12:20 PM Re: Looking for a Small Studio Mixer [Re: HammondDave]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4014
once you enter the family of digital from the well known analog sounds sources available, you mixing process isn't a full analogy with some extra features. Those inline and aux effects need to be tuned, and may work wonders for some cases. OTOH the digital sound might take some getting used to!

T.

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