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#2926431 - 05/10/18 01:03 PM NGD: Ibanez RG8
Winston Psmith Offline
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Well, I've finally done it, moved up to an 8-string Guitar.

While I'd been holding out for that Multi-Scale model, my FLUMS happened to have a very clean RG8, where the previous owner dropped an expensive Lace Deathbar pickup (yes, that's what it's called) in the bridge position. The price was more than fair for a used Guitar, and the after-market pickup made it an even better deal.

Furthermore, my main MFX unit, my Boss GT-10, had no trouble registering even the lowest notes on the 8th string, when I was tuning it, so tuning is quick and easy. I may try to convert this crazy thing to an 8-string version of the NST, at some point.
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#2926443 - 05/10/18 02:15 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
desertbluesman Offline
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Good luck with your new gear day acquisition Winston. May you have many years of playing pleasure with the new axe.

I have a Ibanez RG321 6 string guitar, and it is one of the best guitars I have ever owned. Cost me $292 brand new, I did have to file the frets when I got it, and a little while later I had to re-solder the cap on the tone pot. Finally after a few years I had to replace the volume pot. Other than that I have been playing the thing for about 10 years happily.
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#2926463 - 05/10/18 04:31 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: desertbluesman]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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Niiice!

I think you’ll like the Deathbar. Like all Lace Alumitones- of which it is one variant- can get “soopah kleen”. But the “Death” variants are capable of delivering metal-style pickup ouput.

And if you DO NST it, share particulars* & clips!



* as in, are you going to go FCGDAEGD, BFCGDAEG or what?
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#2926476 - 05/10/18 07:14 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Larryz Offline
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Congrats Brother Winston! Keep us posted and do a review if you will! thu
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#2926493 - 05/10/18 10:31 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Niiiiiiiiiice. cool
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#2926530 - 05/11/18 07:54 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Oh man-in my Taipei I days I got an RG-550 I believe-from a friend of our drummer when my Artist succumbed to climate and other issues. I had to be careful with it since it was basically on loan from a shop But I loved that guitar. Have fun!
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#2926542 - 05/11/18 08:59 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: skipclone 1]
Winston Psmith Offline
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So, set it up with a set of .010-.074 strings. The .074 will just go through the hole in the tuning peg. If this were a 6-string set, it would be a Lt. Top/Hvy. Bottom set, running .010, .013, .017, .030, .042, .054, .064, .074. Oddly, the low strings still seem somewhat slack, despite the longer scaling, and the heavier gauge? I've read where some players have had the 8th tuner reamed out for a .080 string, and I see that some of the 8-string sets end with a .080; not sure I want to go there, might as well get a 6- or 7-string Bass, in that case. I think my workaround will be to find an 8-string set starting with a .009, then tune the Guitar such that I have a low "B" for the 8th string, and a high "G" or even "A" for the 1st, in Standard tuning, not sure what I'd do for the NST? I'm also looking at the Major 3rds tuning, just for fun. Never tried it, may fail spectacularly.

The neck is wide (no surprise), and very flat. The action is set extremely low, even brought up to standard pitch; Ibanez ships these tuned down a half-step, with a .009-.065 string set.

Setting the intonation is going to be very interesting. The lowest strings are reading almost right at the 12th Fret, but very sharp at the 24th?(Yeah, I know, who sets their intonation at the 24th Fret, right?) Starting to see why the Multi-scale design is such a good idea . . .

Overall, I'd say that the 8-string Guitar, in general, is still a work in progress, at least as far as a mass-produced affordable model, like the RG8. I'm going to view this Guitar as a 'bike-with-training-wheels', so to speak. If nothing else, I'll get familiar with the mechanics of the 8-string design, before I move on to a Multi-scale, or a 7-string Bass.
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#2926682 - 05/12/18 01:51 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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After many futile attempts at tuning & tweaking, I decided that I'd had enough fun, and the folks at my FLUMS had a very nice Schecter Omen 8 that wasn't there the other day, so I swapped Guitars. Bear in mind that adjusting and setting up Guitars was part of my job for a long time, so I don't give up easily. However, I wanted a Guitar to play, not to play around with, so . . .

I suspect that the RG8's previous owner had tried to adjust it beyond their level of competence; one clue was in the way they'd strung it. They'd strung a 4-on-a-side Guitar as if it were a 6-in-line, all the strings wrapped from the treble side of the neck. Yes, I restrung it as soon as I got it home. No matter what, It certainly felt very different from the first RG8 that I'd tried and liked so much, and if there'd been another RG8 in the store, I would have tired it for comparison's sake. The Schecter, OTOH, behaved the moment I picked it up, no adjustment needed. I've been tapping on the neck a good part of the afternoon, and banging out low-note power chords in between.

@Dannyalcatraz - I'd like set it up for a hybrid tuning, combining both George Van Eps' and Lenny Breau's approach to 7-string tuning, with both a low "B" or "A", and a high "G" or "A", with Standard tuning from the 2nd though the 7th strings. If I go for a version of the NST, I would likely do something similar, with a low "F" and a high "A", or "B", if I can manage it. (Fripp had suggested a high "A" for the 1st string rather than a low "F" for the 7th, in a hypothetical 7-string version of the NST.) For now, it's in Standard tuning, F#-E, low to high.
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#2926683 - 05/12/18 02:04 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I'd like (to) set it up for a hybrid tuning, combining both George Van Eps' and Lenny Breau's approach to 7-string tuning, with both a low "B" or "A", and a high "G" or "A", with Standard tuning from the 2nd though the 7th strings.


THAT'S what I'M talkin' 'bout... cool

It'd almost have to be Low-A/8 and High-G/1, or even lower, with that scale-length, tension being so very high for a skinny little string in the 1st-slot...

It nearly requires a fanned-fret multi-scale layout, with a shorter 1st-string (ideally, 24.65"/24.75", or even shorter), and a longer 8th-string (25.5", 26", or so).
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#2926694 - 05/12/18 03:14 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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For the 1st solo virgin flight, I would go with the 9-65's that it comes loaded with and tune G B E A D G B E low to high in standard tuning. It would give a full range spectrum going from low to high with baritone bass guitar sounds along with being able to bend those higher lighter trebles strings. Then take it from there...I would be getting lost anyway on the bass strings for a little while. When going to this light of a set, I doubt that you would need to drop tune a 1/2 step unless you wanted to. I'm just guessing of course...Good luck and have fun playing with it! I would put the Nix on reaming out that bass tuner for an 80...it would probably weaken it. If you ever wanted to go back to stock after you ream it out, you could always get an extra matching stock tuner (if you do it right away) to be able to keep one in the case where you can find it LOL! cool


Edited by Larryz (05/12/18 03:24 PM)
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#2926799 - 05/13/18 11:28 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Larryz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@Larryz - I've been playing with an F#-E tuning, low to high, what passes for Standard on an 8-string, and the 8th string is marginal. However, I have been thinking about a Modal tuning, similar to a Lap Dulcimer tuning, starting with a low "G". I'll see what develops. It'll need some adjustment if I vary tunings too widely, so I hope to settle on one relatively soon, rather than pulling a Joni Mitchell move with a line of differently-tuned ERG's.

No intention of reaming out the tuning peg: the whole idea seems to go against the design concept, otherwise they should have put Bass tuners on the low strings. I think a .009-.065 string set would be just about ideal for a 1-low, 1-high tuning; a .009 might just be able to handle that high "A", or at least a "G", and the .065 should more than do for a low "B". In the NST the low "C" 6th string is generally a .059.

More than anything, I wanted one of these because I really don't have the money for a Chapman Stick, or a Warm Touch Guitar. It was made for tapping, and you've got all this neck to run wild on. Just back from a morning catering job, so I'm back to making noises for the day.
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#2926800 - 05/13/18 11:34 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
It nearly requires a fanned-fret multi-scale layout, with a shorter 1st-string (ideally, 24.65"/24.75", or even shorter), and a longer 8th-string (25.5", 26", or so).


Believe me, I'm seeing the benefit of the Multi-scale design, even now. FWIW, the RG8 has a 26" scale length and the Omen-8 is 25.5". The ERG, whatever make or model, really is a hybrid Instrument, and as I've already said, IMHO, it's still a work in progress. I expect, as time goes on, and if the manufacturers don't lose interest, we'll see some changes and improvements.

I remember the first generation of MIDI Guitars, and I wouldn't wish those on a modern MIDI Musician, myself included. Maybe in 5 or 10 years, players will look back and say, "Those poor guys, look what they were trying to use!" Still, I'm willing to take up the cause, and even fail, so long as I learn something from it . . .


Edited by Winston Psmith (05/13/18 11:35 AM)
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#2926964 - 05/14/18 10:56 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
FWIW, the RG8 has a 26" scale length and the Omen-8 is 25.5".


Oh- I thought that the Schecter was a longer scale-length than that. Must've been another Omen model's specs that I glanced at! D'oh!

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
No intention of reaming out the tuning peg: the whole idea seems to go against the design concept, otherwise they should have put Bass tuners on the low strings. I think a .009-.065 string set would be just about ideal for a 1-low, 1-high tuning; a .009 might just be able to handle that high "A", or at least a "G", and the .065 should more than do for a low "B". In the NST the low "C" 6th string is generally a .059.


There's a point where heavier-gauge low-strings on a guitar cease sounding like a guitar, and begin sounding like a mediocre short-scale bass, regardless of scale-length and/or tuning. There needs to be just enough 'twang', attack and decay-envelope to retain enough essential guitar character.

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
More than anything, I wanted one of these because I really don't have the money for a Chapman Stick, or a Warm Touch Guitar. It was made for tapping, and you've got all this neck to run wild on. Just back from a morning catering job, so I'm back to making noises for the day.


I wouldn't be interested in an exclusively 'touch'/'tapping' 8-String/ER Guitar; I want extended range for chord voicings, chord-melody voice-leading, and a little more runway for single-note lines going up or down.
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#2926968 - 05/14/18 11:11 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
There's a point where heavier-gauge low-strings on a guitar cease sounding like a guitar, and begin sounding like a mediocre short-scale bass, regardless of scale-length and/or tuning. There needs to be just enough 'twang', attack and decay-envelope to retain enough essential guitar character.


Or kind of like the low end on a Yamaha CP70/80 electric piano. Interesting, even useful, but not really guitar-like. That's what my Hagstrom Viking baritone sounds like to me, especially on the low B.
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#2926989 - 05/14/18 01:33 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Fred_C Offline
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Winston,

Congrats on the new axe. Make her sing. I am in awe of players who play 7 and 8 string guitars, since it's all I can manage to play six. (LOL!)
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#2927107 - 05/15/18 06:50 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Fred_C]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Winston,

Congrats on the new axe. Make her sing. I am in awe of players who play 7 and 8 string guitars, since it's all I can manage to play six. (LOL!)


Thank you, Fred C.!

I have to say, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised, if you tried one of these, depending on how the scale length and body style suited you; some of the body designs are clearly meant to appeal to a Metal aesthetic. Moving on . . .

I offered this comparison to a friend: imagine that you'd been playing a 49 or 61-key Electronic Keyboard for some time, and had gotten good at it, and then, one day, someone sits you down in front of a full 88-key Instrument. You would immediately begin to explore the new range, and despite the wider reach, structurally, the layout would already be familiar.

The 8-string is much like that. There are no surprises in terms of where the notes are, everyone still lines up in the same order, it's just a longer line now, so to speak. The 7th & 8th strings don't feel significantly heavier, and if you, personally, are used to fairly heavy Jazz string sets, you'll find them marginally thicker; the neck width and scale represent a bit more of an issue, but again, manageable.

Last point, if try what I plan, which is to convert the 1st string to a high "A", and the 8th to a low "B", with strings 2-7 in Standard, you would have a wider range of expression for your work in Chord-Melody playing, and more of those notes would come up the neck, under your chording hand, instead of having to suddenly reach for the 14th fret or thereabouts.
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#2927183 - 05/15/18 01:03 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Winston,

Congrats on the new axe. Make her sing. I am in awe of players who play 7 and 8 string guitars, since it's all I can manage to play six. (LOL!)


Thank you, Fred C.!

I have to say, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised, if you tried one of these, depending on how the scale length and body style suited you; some of the body designs are clearly meant to appeal to a Metal aesthetic. Moving on . . .

I offered this comparison to a friend: imagine that you'd been playing a 49 or 61-key Electronic Keyboard for some time, and had gotten good at it, and then, one day, someone sits you down in front of a full 88-key Instrument. You would immediately begin to explore the new range, and despite the wider reach, structurally, the layout would already be familiar.


I would love LOVE love a fanned-fret/multi-scale 8-String L-5 or ES-175...

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Last point, if try what I plan, which is to convert the 1st string to a high "A", and the 8th to a low "B", with strings 2-7 in Standard, you would have a wider range of expression for your work in Chord-Melody playing, and more of those notes would come up the neck, under your chording hand, instead of having to suddenly reach for the 14th fret or thereabouts.


...tuned A D G C F A D G, with the 2nd/"High-D" string having a 24.65" scale length and the 7th/"Low-D" string having a 25" or 25.25" scale-length, the resulting scale-length for the 1st/"High-G" and 8th/"Low-A" being whatever they turn out to be following that plan. This would yield a tone and a feel that I'd like, with string-gauges I'm used to, and the tension on that extended-range 1st/"High-G" would be more forgiving and manageable (and BENDABLE
thu ). Higher tunings and longer scale-lengths there would wind-up with broken strings!

Anyway, I'd love LOVE love a Jazz axe set-up just so; I think it'd be ideal for chord-melody and voice-leading work.
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#2927188 - 05/15/18 01:30 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@Caevan - I like the way you think, brother, but you already knew that! Sadly, I haven't seen anything remotely like what you describe, other than a couple of custom one-off's?

It's likely that I'll wind up with more than 1 ERG, for very different tunings and techniques. An ERG set up for Chord-Melody wouldn't be ideal for Tapping, and vice versa. I'm very taken with the idea of a Modal tuning, or getting a 9-string and tuning it in 'tone clusters' consisting of 3 open adjacent strings. I'm going to have to sit down with a pencil and paper for some of this . . .

And, BTW, I meant "Warr" Guitar, not Warm, for anyone who's wondering those are. Warr Guitars are more Guitar or Bass-like than the Chapman Stick, but the are still primarily if not exclusively Touch or Tap Instruments. Bloody spell-correct!
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#2927197 - 05/15/18 02:10 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
@Caevan - I like the way you think, brother, but you already knew that! Sadly, I haven't seen anything remotely like what you describe, other than a couple of custom one-off's?


One day, when I can bank such an aeolian chimera...

As you mentioned earlier above, Van Eps and Breau pushed the envelope to each extended direction, respectively, but going both ways, as the Scarecrow alluded, is something some people might do... wink

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
It's likely that I'll wind up with more than 1 ERG, for very different tunings and techniques. An ERG set up for Chord-Melody wouldn't be ideal for Tapping, and vice versa. I'm very taken with the idea of a Modal tuning, or getting a 9-string and tuning it in 'tone clusters' consisting of 3 open adjacent strings. I'm going to have to sit down with a pencil and paper for some of this . . .


You're a man on a mission!

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
And, BTW, I meant "Warr" Guitar, not Warm, for anyone who's wondering those are. Warr Guitars are more Guitar or Bass-like than the Chapman Stick, but the are still primarily if not exclusively Touch or Tap Instruments. Bloody spell-correct!


I knowed whatcha mint... rawk
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#2927204 - 05/15/18 03:06 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Danzilla Offline
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As John Lennon would have sung,

"Happiness is a warm Warr guitar, momma..."
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#2927267 - 05/16/18 03:02 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Danzilla]
Bluesape Moderator Offline
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No experience with anything over 6 strings, so, congrats, and clips!
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#2927292 - 05/16/18 06:31 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Bluesape]
jimmac Offline
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Sounds interesting but I never had the itch to try more than 6 strings. That keeps me busy enough. Jim

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#2927345 - 05/16/18 10:49 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@Caevan - I was intrigued by your chimera, so I one looking to see what I could find. Conklin makes an 8-string Hollow-body, and used ones are running around $2,500. Considering what new, stock Gibsons are going for, that's almost "affordable".
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#2927348 - 05/16/18 10:55 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
@Caevan - I was intrigued by your chimera, so I one looking to see what I could find. Conklin makes an 8-string Hollow-body, and used ones are running around $2,500. Considering what new, stock Gibsons are going for, that's almost "affordable".


Wow! crazy cool
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#2927364 - 05/16/18 12:33 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
mikesr1963 Offline
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Congrats on the 8 brother. I just picked up a Boneshaker on Amazon for $50 to try with mine.

Here's some tunings I've played around with the last couple years:
EADGcfad from Korn
DGcfa#d#gc: D
ADGCFAdg: A
EBEADGBE: Animals as Leaders
DADGCFAD: Drop D Meshugga Catch 33
EAEADGBE: Just because

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#2927367 - 05/16/18 01:01 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: mikesr1963]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: mikesr1963
Congrats on the 8 brother. I just picked up a Boneshaker on Amazon for $50 to try with mine.

Here's some tunings I've played around with the last couple years:
EADGcfad from Korn
DGcfa#d#gc: D
ADGCFAdg: A
EBEADGBE: Animals as Leaders
DADGCFAD: Drop D Meshugga Catch 33
EAEADGBE: Just because



Thank you, brother! Just copied those onto my desktop.

Earlier today, I tried a version of a 1-low/1-high tuning, but 1 whole step down, thus A-D-G-C-F-A-D-G low to high. String tension was a kind of high with the current set (.010-.074), but I think with a .009-.064 set, I could have the set-up I want.


Edited by Winston Psmith (05/16/18 01:10 PM)
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#2927378 - 05/16/18 02:38 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: mikesr1963]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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Originally Posted By: mikesr1963
Congrats on the 8 brother. I just picked up a Boneshaker on Amazon for $50 to try with mine.

Here's some tunings I've played around with the last couple years:
EADGcfad from Korn
DGcfa#d#gc: D
ADGCFAdg: A
EBEADGBE: Animals as Leaders
DADGCFAD: Drop D Meshugga Catch 33
EAEADGBE: Just because



Very handy...and the Boneshaker is a steal of a pedal at that price.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (05/16/18 02:38 PM)
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#2927427 - 05/16/18 10:31 PM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24686
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Originally Posted By: mikesr1963
Congrats on the 8 brother. I just picked up a Boneshaker on Amazon for $50 to try with mine.

Here's some tunings I've played around with the last couple years:
EADGcfad from Korn
DGcfa#d#gc: D
ADGCFAdg: A
EBEADGBE: Animals as Leaders
DADGCFAD: Drop D Meshugga Catch 33
EAEADGBE: Just because



Very handy...and the Boneshaker is a steal of a pedal at that price.


https://www.musicgoroundstlouis.com/p/93...aQaAkfAEALw_wcB
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#2927707 - 05/18/18 10:22 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
mikesr1963 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 50
Loc: Virginia's East Coast
My shipping was free.

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#2927721 - 05/18/18 11:33 AM Re: NGD: Ibanez RG8 [Re: mikesr1963]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3409
Loc: Inside the Beltway
One thing I'm quickly discovering; there is very little consensus on what Tuning to use on an 8-string. The water is wide, AND deep . . .

I'm running into a similar issue with 8-string string sets. Gauges are all over the map. The Ernie Ball 8-string Slinky set starts out like a standard .010-.046, but starts getting heavy at the 4th string. The DR TF8-11 starts out like a standard .011-.050 string set, but starts getting lighter at the 4th string? It's a good thing I have good Music stores nearby, and that I like to experiment. I think I'm going to be assembling and dis-assembling string sets for a while. Fortunately/unfortunately, it's been raining like the Deluge here for days, so indoor projects rule.
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