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Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG)


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I think I hear what you are talking about when I play a C triad in the top octave. There is a background mechanical hum sort sound. Sounds like soft subtle wind outside. Isnt it the crosstalk effect? I dont mind it when I play single notes up there, it adds girth. The thing is I never play 3 note sustained chords in the top octave. When is that ever sounding good ? I never do it on a Rhodes or real piano either for that matter. Chords are nice in the middle range. The top octave is for single notes percussive stuff. Or two notes at most, nothing smaller than a fourth.

 

What I hear is more of a rumble, and it just sounds out of place to me. If you are talking about a 'rumbling wind' (kinda like wind noise on a mic?), rather than a 'hissing white-noise sort of wind', then yeah, I'd guess that's it. Did you turn COMPLEX WHEELS OFF?

 

Well, I might close out a song with a gliss up to a top octave chord, and maybe even a third, or 6th or seventh in there, depending - I don't think it it's that unusual. It would be a soft fade out, so not 'screaming', and with the swell bass EQ, that accentuates the rumble.

 

If that bass boost with 'non-complex' wheels is authentic, I just don't get it (musically or technically). But if it is, it would be nice to have a "16' levelling" option or something.

 

I'll write Guido about it after I've gathered enough info to feel I've got a good handle on it.

 

EDIT: I should add, I'm really happy with the Mojo61 overall. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this particular thing that is 'bugging' me.

 

FURTHER EDIT: I meant to mention that I talked about a chord in the top octave to make the rumble stand out, so you can identify what I'm talking about. But I also hear it in chords in the middle of the keyboard. They aren't as obvious since the frequencies are closer, but I still find it distracting at times.

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  • 3 weeks later...


I've had a few weeks now with my Mojo61, so I thought I'd update this thread.

 

Probably the best indication I can give is that I've had quite a few spontaneous smiles break out, you know when you hit that chord or phrase, and the drawbars and drive level and effects are just right, and it just sounds so good you just have to smile. It's been fun.

 

I'm a little surprised that some others said they never really noticed the EQ (loudness) effect with the swell pedal (modelled after how the Hammond does this). To me it's quite obvious when you have the volume knob set pretty high, so you are running the swell near the bottom of its range. Sometimes I feel like I'm getting a little too much bass, so I lower the volume knob so that I'm riding higher on the swell. It's a bit of a balancing point, depending on what you are playing, but I just love it when I'm in just the right range so the bass boost is evident and pleasing.

 

I've never had much time with a real Hammond with tube amp/Leslie, but I'm digging the drive level control, especially with the first few drawbars out, and getting the levels set so you just get a bit of a 'growl' when you pump the swell a bit, and cleaner when you pull back. Nice. Do others find this a convincing replica of a real tube amp? Sounds good to me. And of course it's fun to go all Jon Lord on it for a while with full organ and full drive.

 

Earlier I said I find the amount of bass 'grumble' in the crosstalk to be a little annoying at times. I've got Complex Wheels ON (the bass with this OFF is much higher, so I get much more 'grumble' with it OFF), XTALK COLOR at 127 (cuts bass and emphasizes treble in the crosstalk), and Crosstalk about the middle and that's pretty good for me. But I wish I could use the "Non-Complex" wheels for my 25 note bass pedals, and I wonder if more crosstalk in the mid-range (with a sharp bass cut), might sound even better? I will write Guido at Crumar about this. I guess that bass boost in notes pedals 1-12 is "authentic" (but why?), but I sure would like an option to have a level bass volume in those tone wheels across two octaves of bass pedals (or pedals to lower).

 

I'm curious about settings for the Rotary. It sounds great to me, but with some voicings with high drawbars the fast mode can sound a little 'chipmunk-y' to me. Maybe it's authentic, but maybe I can tame that a bit?

 

Oh yeah, I chuckled at the tongue-in-cheek excitement over the 'chicken-head' knobs (I had to look that up - oh yeah, chicken-heads! hah!) in the first few posts. But seriously, it's a little thing that makes a real difference. You get a nice visual on the setting, but you can also nudge them from either the top or bottom with a finger tip, by feel, and you can't do that with a cylinder style knob. I find myself sometimes ending a tune with a chord in my right hand, holding a note or two in my left, and reaching up with a fingertip and tweaking that drive level up dynamically as I fade out the chord, so it growls as it fades. When you start doing things like that without thinking about it, you know you are sitting at a musical instrument, and not just a music machine.

 

So yeah, I like it!

 

I do get a little bit of low level 'helicopter' kind of noise. It's pretty low, probably typical for an electronic keyboard, do others notice this? I am running with monitors close to me in a quiet home environment, so really worst case for this. Just wondering.

 

I'll start another post on this, and another thread if there is interest and I get a bit further, but I use the Mojo61 with a second keyboard and a 25 note pedal board, so I'd really like have a drawbar expander. I have another thread where I mentioned that I programmed an ESP8266 micro-controller as a MIDI switch encoder for my 25-note pedal board (pulled from an old Yamaha console organ). The Arduino programming tool makes it easy to include their MIDI library, and it's really easy to program stuff with this (and I'm not a sophisticated programmer). So I started on that, and it looks promising, if I can get a hold of the hardware I want to finish it off. More on that a bit later...

 

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About my drawbar expander plans:

 

As I mentioned, I'd really like to add at least one more set of drawbars and a set of pedal drawbars (with sustain control). I've played around enough with the ESP8266 micro-controllers to feel confident that I can do this (the ESP 8266 is like $5, incredible for all it does).

 

But that computer also opens up a lot of possibilities. Here's a list of things I may implement:

 

A) Add more PRESETS. A full set (8,10,12, more?) for the Upper and a set for Lower would be nice. I'm also looking at some options that were never on the B3, like presets for the whole organ, and the option to store/recall other 'effect' settings (perc, rotary, drive, V/C , etc).

 

B) I'm thinking about a LOWER/UPPER CUT pot. It would do nothing at midpoint, but turning CCW from MID would cut the volume of the UPPER manual (by scaling the UPPER drawbar levels back by the same %), and CW from MID would cut the volume of the LOWER manual - this would give me an easy way to balance the volume of the two manuals, w/o messing up the relative drawbar sound. It would have to cut only, as drawbars don't "go to 11" (or even 9!).

 

C) It might be nice to have a separate button for C/V ON/OFF for each manual, and a real knob to select C/V I-III.

 

D) A totally unique "MELD" control. Hang on and follow this, it's a bit 'out there', but I just mocked it up, and it works and it's pretty cool. Here's how it would work in it's final form (my trial code pre-loads A and B drawbar values so I could try it w/o all the hardware):

 

Picture your UPPER keyboard with the A drawbar set at say 888000006 and the B set at 828765432. I'll put these next to each other to make this easier to see:

 

888000006 << A

828765432 << B

 

The MELD control would create a continuously and dynamically variable blend of the two settings. With the MELD set full CCW (pointing towards "A"), the settings of the A drawbars would be sent to the Mojo61. With the MELD full CW, you would hear the B settings. Anything in between would be an averaging of the two. So at the midpoint you'd get:

 

888000006 << A

828765432 << B

---------

858433224 << MID point MELD

 

and at ~ 10:00 the settings would be closer to the "A" drawbars, and closer to the "B" at 2:00, and everything in between.

 

(The Crumar actually takes drawbar values from 0-127, so instead of the rounding shown here, a "3.5" value would actually be 3.5/8 * 127 = 55 (integer truncating of 56.55625 - close enough!))

 

I got this mocked up after a few days of coding in my spare time, and it's nice. You get a nice smooth blend between the two settings, it seems very natural. Turning it in time with playing can give a bit of a wha-wha type effect. I plan to provide a mod-pedal input on this, cause I think that would be really nice, not just for dynamics, but to easily adjust the tone between two extremes, w/o needing to tweak individual drawbars. Realize that this means some drawbars could be being effectively pushed-in, while others are being pulled out - maybe in ways near impossible to do with one hand.

 

A little harder to picture, but I also plan on a "SHAPE" control to interact with how the MELD control works - this would do nothing at the mid point "FLAT", but put more emphasis on the higher drawbars (towards the 1') when turned CW, and more emphasis on the lower drawbars (towards the 16') when turned CCW. If you could see it visually, at full CW the 1' drawbar would move faster/more than the 8' drawbar for the same difference between A-B. Hope you can follow that. An maybe even a 'sensitivity' control for each individual drawbar, if I can figure some decent way to implement that.

 

If there is interest, I'll detail out my progress in another thread. Does anyone have other ideas that I may not have thought of?

 

Another thing I'll write Guido about - I think I saw in an old thread that he was going to offer replacement sub-assemblies for sale on their site, so that a good tech could do most repairs w/o shipping back to the factory. So I'd like to buy some drawbar assemblies, but I don't see them listed on the site.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

NTL2009 (not his real name, I assume) mentioned the helicopter noise in the Mojo and I've noticed the same thing in certain situations. I haven't yet gig with the Mojo (that will be next week), and haven't run it through a real sound system yet, but I am a bit concerned that when I do, there's going to be an audible helicopter chop through FOH.

 

My guess is that I don't have a defective unit, that this is part and parcel of the Mojo. Can others confirm that? If so, then it must not be a significant problem, or a problem at all, otherwise people wouldn't be gigging with it. So I have nothing so worry about?

 

I'm not an expert by any means in this stuff but my guess is that whether the helicopter noise surfaces has to do with amplification stages, and can be avoided just by a proper set up.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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NTL2009 said:

"I do get a little bit of low level 'helicopter' kind of noise. It's pretty low, probably typical for an electronic keyboard, do others notice this? I am running with monitors close to me in a quiet home environment, so really worst case for this. Just wondering."

 

 

If you mean the noise the Mojo makes while it is not being played? I have found that setting the output on the back to HIGH and backing off the volume knob a bit (cause you don't need it high now) virtually eliminates the noise

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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The 'helicopter noise' is pretty low level to me, I'm not surprised others have not mentioned it (assuming it is the same level as mine). I'm on good speakers in a quiet room, with the speakers just a few feet behind and to the side of me. I can't really say if the noise is better/worse than other keyboards, I haven't had my other boards set up in this same config.

 

I did wait to comment until I could get some TRS cables made up long enough, so I could run balanced to my amp, but that really didn't seem to make a difference.

 

It didn't seem to be affected by the LEAKAGE setting (or CROSSTALK level/shape), I just tried that, and that's a different sort of noise (at least to my ears).

 

Even the VOLUME setting didn't seem to change it much if at all. I'm not sure the L-M-H setting has any real effect, you crank the amp to compensate. Certain noise sources would be lower on a HIGH output setting, as then you would lower the amp for same level, and lower the noise as well. It really depends on where in the signal chain the noise source is generated. But it's worth a try to see if it helps in your particular setting. If it actually needs any help, that is. As I said, it's pretty low, I tend to not really notice it once I'm 'engaged' in making music.

 

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Somebody should update the Wikipedia page for Crumar. There is a brief mention of the seven, but not the mojo. Nor do they mention Guido and Andre.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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I do get a little bit of low level 'helicopter' kind of noise.

 

maybe I missed this but do you hear the noise with the internal sim bypassed?

Didn't think it made any difference, but I re-checked to be sure. I couldn't seem to do anything to affect that slight noise: volume, drive, cabinet on/off, rotary fast/slow/stop. All the same to me.

 

I could swear it is louder when you first start, but maybe that's me getting acclimated. It really is slight, but I seem to notice it more at first.

 

I forgot to check the other instruments (piano pipe, combo), I suspect it's the same. I'm guessing some clocking noise from the computer or switch scanning getting in. That's more why I mentioned it - if no one else heard it maybe I had a loose ground or something. But it seems common, just the nature of the beast?

 

 

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The helicopter, clock noise, whatever it should be called, is a constant in rhhelation to the output volume, doesn't matter which engine is engaged, cabinet is on, high/med/low output, or anything else I've tried. It's a low level, so maybe it won't matter. I'll be interested to see whether it's noticeable at my gig next week. If it's not, great, no more need to think about it as far as I'm concerned. If it is noticeable, then I'll probably ask Sweetwater to send me another unit just to rule out that mine is defective.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I hope impressionable readers don't take this to mean that the mojo61 is superior to the XK5. When Herbie shows up to a gig, he prefers using his Fazioli to the steinway concert D, or yamaha CFX provided by the house. That doesn't mean a steinway D or a CFX are inferior pianos. Player's have specific needs that certain instruments help address more than others. I know Mitch knows this, but I always feel compelled to write these responses whenever these kinds of comparative posts are made. I used to be really impressionable about what people would post regarding gear, and even went so far as to buy/sell gear based on what people on this forum posted...Use the gear that works best for your needs, not what works best for others.
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The helicopter, clock noise, whatever it should be called, is a constant in rhhelation to the output volume, doesn't matter which engine is engaged, cabinet is on, high/med/low output, or anything else I've tried. It's a low level, so maybe it won't matter. I'll be interested to see whether it's noticeable at my gig next week. If it's not, great, no more need to think about it as far as I'm concerned. If it is noticeable, then I'll probably ask Sweetwater to send me another unit just to rule out that mine is defective.

 

I hear that particular noise, but it is so low level and I love the MOJO61 so much, that I just ignore it.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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I hope impressionable readers don't take this to mean that the mojo61 is superior to the XK5. When Herbie shows up to a gig, he prefers using his Fazioli to the steinway concert D, or yamaha CFX provided by the house. That doesn't mean a steinway D or a CFX are inferior pianos. Player's have specific needs that certain instruments help address more than others. I know Mitch knows this, but I always feel compelled to write these responses whenever these kinds of comparative posts are made. I used to be really impressionable about what people would post regarding gear, and even went so far as to buy/sell gear based on what people on this forum posted...Use the gear that works best for your needs, not what works best for others.

 

The Fazioli/Steinway/Yamaha comparison is hardly analogous to Mojo/XK-5.

 

Even if youre equating the XK to a Steinway or CFX and a Mojo to a Fazioli.

 

Steinways and CFXs are not overpriced in comparison to their real world features nor are they overhyped.

 

Folks like Mitch have thousands of man-hours on these boards most especially in real world mission critical situations. That experience allows for comparisons and judgments that supersede taste and cross over into effective observation.

 

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Showed up for a festival with and XK5 and Electro 4 for backline. Played it for 5 minutes and went and got the Mojo61.

 

What would help here is specifically why you went back to the Mojo61. FYI, I have a Mojo, not an XK5.

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Without presuming to speak for Mitch, I think once you get used to the action on the Mojo, which is closer to a real B3 than other clones, going to a stiffer action requires some adjustment. Based on that alone it would be perfectly rational not to want to switch just for the convenience of playing backlined equipment.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I love my Mojo 61 action. I could never get comfortable with any of the Nord Electro actions. The Electros had a push back in their springs that made my hands fatigued when playing bebop. . And the Rhodes in my Mojo is the best I have ever had and I have had many... I am over 500 hours of playtime with my Mojo 61 now after one year of ownership. I cant imagine selling it or returning it. Especially after having it side-by-side for a month with a Hammond SK 1 which was inferior, imo.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Showed up for a festival with and XK5 and Electro 4 for backline. Played it for 5 minutes and went and got the Mojo61.

 

Not surprising....

 

Those two cats from Italy know what they are doing!

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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Mojo better than an XK5 hmmmmmmmmm

 

Mojo 61+ Lower Manual by a country mile

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Mojo better than an XK5 hmmmmmmmmm

 

Mojo 61+ Lower Manual by a country mile

 

And about $4000 less expensive...

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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What HammondDave sez!

H/S would seem lately to be an inverse object lesson in features to price ratio!

At least Nord has an Apple-like attention to detail that halfway justifies thier super premium pricing....

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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At least Nord has an Apple-like attention to detail that halfway justifies thier super premium pricing....

I would not say that 30% higher price for a tri timbral Electro6 61 compared to a Mojo61 is super premium?

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At least Nord has an Apple-like attention to detail that halfway justifies thier super premium pricing....

I would not say that 30% higher price for a tri timbral Electro6 61 compared to a Mojo61 is super premium?

 

Agree... but H/Suzuki is SUPER PREMIUM! Is a multi contact keybed with an inferior sound engine and Leslie sim worth it?

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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I think you can buy a Mojo 61 PLUS the lower manual for the same price as THIS.

'55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D

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I think you can buy a Mojo 61 PLUS the lower manual for the same price as THIS.

 

Just about the same, Dave....maybe $50-100 more....better deal even then, lol!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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