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#2927055 - 05/14/18 09:22 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: AnotherScott]
Lady Gaia Offline
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Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 50
Loc: Seattle
AnotherScott hit on a number of the points that are relevant to me, but clearly there is no definitive answer to what itís worth. It varies by individual, and for those whom the answer is $4000 and above theyíll make sales until demand drops and we see how flexible their pricing is. Thatís the way of most things.

Likewise, the question of whether hardware is worth the premium over software is hardly unique to this instrument. Itís true of every synthesizer out there, and again the answer is individual.

In practice, 16 channels of high-quality self-oscillating resonant filters is pretty CPU intensive if youíre trying to closely emulate the real thing. Then thereís 200GB of SSD that I wonít be tying up in my laptop, and a decent keybed thatís weighted radically differently than my other current options in addition to everything mentioned about real-time controls. Iím very much looking forward to having this hybrid blend of extensive samples and analog filtered warmth in my setup because it fills a gap for me. Whether thatís true for others isnít particularly of concern.
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#2927062 - 05/14/18 10:01 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Lady Gaia]
Nathanael_I Offline
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Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 144
Well, a Rev2 is $2000. It has two oscillators (saw, triangle, saw+tri, and pulse) + sub osc and 16 voices, 24db filter, and a smaller mod matrix.

The Prophet X also has two DCO's (Sine, saw, pulse, supersaw) adds two sample oscillators and a true stereo signal path. It has a bigger mod matrix, and two real time touch faders over the Rev2. It also has a huge set of samples from a very professional sampling company - I'm sure they were paid something.

So, is it 2x a Rev2? Kind of. Double the oscillators, better hardware real-time controls, can do typical analog poly sounds, but lots of extra ground due to samples. The sine wave is more useful with samples than the triangle wave, and I'd rather have supersaw than saw+tri wave in the REV2 - more useful. The sample oscillators could always add most any other wave shape that could be conceived, so the oscillator section is massively better than a REV2.

DSI makes other synths for $3k - this is well more powerful than any of them, so $4k it is. I can see how they get there. Still a chunk of $$ but less than a Solaris, a Quantum, or a Modal 002/008 - $4k is the "uber synth" price point apparently - absent the Schmidt or vintage poly's that are 2-5x this cost.

Many of the cutting edge sounds for movies and other uses are mangled samples of some kind or another. This puts that in a real-time tweaking package. Novel and will produce sounds not easily had elsewhere.

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#2927105 - 05/15/18 06:45 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Nathanael_I]
John64 Offline
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Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 81
So we're basically back to square one when it comes to the handling of the sample content?
Sample access is indeed very quick, almost unnoticeable.
But now I'm still in the dark about the entire process of how the sample content is accessed.
Furthermore, sample mangling requires the entire sample to be loaded, not just a beginning.

Also, a percussive sound takes up a less space than a 10-layer velocity switched unlooped piano, so there is probably a lot of variation between the different sample groups.
I wish DSI/8DIO would shed some light on the internals and how samples are handled.

When it comes to computer based VST's and the Prophet X there's a huge difference in the interface alone.
One is a generic platform which can be used for audio production purposes, the other is a musical instrument with hands-on tweakability, and the interaction with both is very different.

I also wonder about the internal SSD, is it easy replaceable by owners of the Prophet X with another SSD if there's defect, and how about the sample content on the SSD in case of a replacement, can it be downloaded somewhere or will replacement SSD's with the content be obtainable and installed by a DSI dealer or do you need to make your own image of the content in case something goes wrong?

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#2927129 - 05/15/18 08:30 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: John64]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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#2927184 - 05/15/18 01:07 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: AnotherScott]
KorgyPorky Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/03/17
Posts: 66
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
In the end... the only difference between this sound engine and the many high quallity VSTís is the analogue filte...

So how much better is this analogue filter then the computer programmed ones?
And if so, is that worth Ä4000?



VSTs don't give you the same kind of hands-on control as this dedicated control surface does. VSTs require a computer, this doesn't. What would this set of 8Dio samples cost in the VST realm? Could you do the same kind of sound mangling as easily, in real-time? And switch among the sounds as quickly? There are a whole bunch of differences even before you get to the analog filters.


I ought to agree with this...

But with the new hardware integrion seen with omnisphere 2.5
This might actually change.. i can see software getting the same interface as hardware(becaus ethe hardware is actually the interface)

What if i added some keyscape stuff and some oscilators in omsiphere
And controll it with a novation peak or Roland system 8..
The only difference would in fact be the analogue filter..

Leaves again the question..
How much difference is there between omspheres plethora in filters and the prophet x filter in soundquallity?

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#2927194 - 05/15/18 02:06 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: KorgyPorky]
mate stubb Offline
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...and you still need to lug a computer around. And the hardware is most likely generic instead of purpose built.

But do whatever floats your boat.
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#2927195 - 05/15/18 02:07 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: KorgyPorky]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Hardware integration in Omnisphere is cool, but still a compromise, compared to all the controls the Prophet X has, pre-configured to do just the right things and logically laid out for its particular workflow. You have knobs that relate to information in adjacent displays. You have knobs that light up different sets of LEDs. It's a bit more involved than finding a control surface that can roughly approximate the typical controls of a classic Moog/ARP/Oberheim style design.

Also, Omnisphere doesn't include the sample aspect, does it? Could you bring the 8Dio sample set into it? I see you mentioned keyscape, but it sounds like that would be its own soundset, and not sounds you could mangle inside Omnisphere, am I right? If that's so, it seems to me you'd be missing a lot of what the Prophet X is designed to do. It's not merely a synth and a rompler in the same box, but one where you can process the rompler sounds through the synth in real time. Can Omnisphere do that?

Then there are the other questions that always come up when comparing hardware and software... Will you be able to load and switch between sounds as quickly? Will latency become an issue as you increase your demands on the system?

What would your alternate configuration cost, including Omnisphere, the 8Dio library, the Roland System 8, and a computer that could do a first rate job at running it all?
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#2927247 - 05/15/18 10:47 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Nathanael_I Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 144
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


There's also a lot of other Superbooth videos starting to show up now. It really does make a lot of nice sounds - very nice sounds. Sounds that analog poly's don't make.

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#2927249 - 05/15/18 10:57 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: AnotherScott]
Nathanael_I Offline
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Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 144
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Hardware integration in Omnisphere is cool.....

Also, Omnisphere doesn't include the sample aspect, does it? Could you bring the 8Dio sample set into it? I see you mentioned keyscape, but it sounds like that would be its own soundset, and not sounds you could mangle inside Omnisphere, am I right? If that's so, it seems to me you'd be missing a lot of what the Prophet X is designed to do. It's not merely a synth and a rompler in the same box, but one where you can process the rompler sounds through the synth in real time. Can Omnisphere do that?


I have Omnisphere and an OB-6 (one of the supported synths for the new hardware control). After watching the video on the upcoming 2.5 release, I'm not sure what the point is. They used Omnisphere to set up an OB-6 signal path. So now I can use hardware to control software making the kinds of sounds the hardware makes? Why not just play the hardware? I will play with it when it comes out, but there must be more to it, and I'm not getting it yet. Most of the really cool stuff in Omnisphere is not on any hardware synth, so a mouse will be required.

Omnisphere has a huge sample set behind it (not as big as Prophet X, though). Furthermore, every Spectrasonics product can be accessed from Omnisphere, including Keyscape. Keyscape comes with sounds that use the Omnisphere library. They sound great. Omnisphere offers far more sample mangling possibilities than the Prophet X, a bigger mod matrix, more polyphony, more FX, etc.

The Prophet-X is desirable for the reasons you point out about hardware control vs software, but Omnisphere can definitely do the sort of manipulation that the Prophet X can and a lot more. The filters won't sound the same, the samples will be different, etc.

But I find myself just experimenting and programing on my hardware synths regularly. The VST/AUs tend to be preset monsters - find the sound, play it without tweaking. Omnisphere is ridiculously capable - a beast of a synth, and it gets better all the time. But it isn't as fast or direct as hardware.

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#2927263 - 05/16/18 02:07 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Nathanael_I]
mauriziodececco Offline
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 235
Loc: France
Somebody mentioned that weighted keyboards have been discussed ?
I would seriously consider switching to a TP100 (or similar) Prophet X from my NE5HP if the weight stay reasonable :->

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#2927275 - 05/16/18 04:41 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Nathanael_I]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12141
Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
Omnisphere has a huge sample set behind it (not as big as Prophet X, though). Furthermore, every Spectrasonics product can be accessed from Omnisphere, including Keyscape...Omnisphere can definitely do the sort of manipulation that the Prophet X can and a lot more.

Thanks for that info.

Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
The filters won't sound the same, the samples will be different

People paid more for a Minimoog than they could for more capable, less expensive synthesizers, because they didn't sound the same. People pay more for a Mojo61 than they do for a Roland V-09. If comparing sound is as important as comparing functionality, then there would appear to be no direct software equivalent to the Prophet X, i.e. something that would sound the same. KP asked whether the filter is worth $4k,, but the filter isn't the only (or even necessarily the biggest) source of sonic difference, if you have a completely different set of underlying samples to mangle. The $4k is getting you entirely different sounds (as well as a different way to interface with their creation/manipulation).

It's also a red herring to ask if the filter is worth $4k when $4k is not the premium you pay over an Omnisphere-based system, but rather the entire price. It's not like an Omnisphere-based system is free. Even his proposed system of Omnisphere, Keyscape, and a System 8 approaches $2500 without any computer cost, and with a less capable control surface, as you point out when you say, "most of the really cool stuff in Omnisphere is not on any hardware synth, so a mouse will be required. "

Originally Posted By: Nathanael_I
They used Omnisphere to set up an OB-6 signal path. So now I can use hardware to control software making the kinds of sounds the hardware makes? Why not just play the hardware?

Kind of getting back to what I said about the Minimoog and Mojo61... you may be using a similar set of controls, but presumably you will be able to interact with sounds that sound quite different from those that come out of the machine directly.
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#2927309 - 05/16/18 07:57 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: AnotherScott]
Lady Gaia Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/17
Posts: 50
Loc: Seattle
There are actually a ton of demo videos from 8Dio, not all of which show on their web site. A few of the more recent ones include:

Fretlessness:


Chamber Harps:


Grand Piano 1928:


Saxophonetic:


Taped Upright:


Shimmer Brightly:


130 BPM:
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#2927351 - 05/16/18 11:23 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Lady Gaia]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Loving most of the demos. Can't wait to try one in a store - after watching ProfD show how its done of course.
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