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Mainstage really paying off!


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As if it wasn't already for what you get with just the stock program for $39.

 

As you all know and followed along on my journey to incorporate MS on my less than ideal Macbook Pro, I've been gigging with it for over a year. Some early hiccups in the early stages, but I've got it down to a solid system.

 

Where it is paying off for me now is the ease of use for different scenarios.

 

MOst recent example:

 

Last weekend my Journey Tribute had a festival show on Friday night.

 

About a month ago I was asked to sub in on key with the Bon Jovi tribute. They're good friends of ours and we've done a lot of double bills.

 

Anyway, they had a big Casino show and their keys player could not do it. I accepted, as I like the material.

 

I spent some time dialing in the David Bryan sounding patches, and was good to go.

 

I used the exact same concert template.

 

As said above, Friday night, Escape show, then drove 5 hours Saturday for the Bon Jovi show. Quick setup, pull up the proper concert, and off I go.

 

So now I have a Journey, Bon Jovi, and Huey Lewis concerts in my files.

 

One trick for simplicity and having to find things when programming: Save your patches (export your patches) so they are saved in a folder. (I also save them to an external SSD for backup).

 

This speeds the process of programming for a new show. Often I find myself thinking, "I nailed a similar sound in xxx concert."

All I have to do is "Import" patch, find it in the directory and it's now in the new concert. It really saves time since I don't have to start from scratch, since I am importing something close, that will just need minor adjustments.

 

Okay getting off track a bit :)

 

All in all, this $39 program, has transformed the way I gig.

 

I am saving my pennies to buy a more robust MBP as there are some CPU intensive libraries I want that won't work on my lowly 4gb, non upgrade able, machine.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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That's awesome, Dave. I was thinking of you last week as we went to see the Keeshea Pratt Band at the same venue we last saw you guys. This band just won the International Blues Challenge in January and they've started getting some good gigs from that.

 

Where was the BJ trib playing?

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Yeah, man, totally! I've been using Mainstage as the core of my system for close to 5 years now, with 2 controllers, an 88 and a 61. To be able to set up my entire keyboard setup in one patch is so great. I have a clonewheel in the middle position of my 3-tier stage rig, and Mainstage sends program changes to it. I can use controllers on one keyboard to control parameters on another, very handy since my bottom board doesn't have an expression pedal input.

 

I also save patches and channel strip settings in folders, and when putting together a new set, I often have most of the patches I need pre-programmed.

 

The other night in practice, someone suggested we play a tune that had a pretty specific-sounding wurly part, in the time it took to play through a recording of the tune, I had programmed the patch to about 90% accuracy, and learned the part.

 

Plus, being able to add plugins and sample libraries makes the sound choices nearly infinite. I run Komplete Ultimate and a few Arturia libraries in addition to the MS library, and if I can't find a sound I need, I figure it's my fault for not trying hard enough.

 

I'm currently running it on an i7-based 13" Macbook with 16GB and a 1tb hard drive, I bought this machine refurbed and it just screams. I've had a few issues onstage, they've always been due to my error, and a reboot is all I've ever needed to fix them.

 

As you might be able to tell, I'm a fan.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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Yes, but WHAT ABOUT THE SYSEX?!?!?!?!?!? :freak::cop:

 

Ahem. Carry on. ;)

 

Dude, if you wanna talk about your SysEx life in a public forum, I guess that's cool, but TMI :)

 

To be honest, I've never had a situation where I needed to use SysEx in my Mainstage setup. I could see if I had to control a bunch of MIDI modules it would be an issue, but the most complicated thing I am sending to external modules is program changes.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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Yes, but WHAT ABOUT THE SYSEX?!?!?!?!?!? :freak::cop:

 

Ahem. Carry on. ;)

 

Dude, if you wanna talk about your SysEx life in a public forum, I guess that's cool, but TMI :)

 

To be honest, I've never had a situation where I needed to use SysEx in my Mainstage setup. I could see if I had to control a bunch of MIDI modules it would be an issue, but the most complicated thing I am sending to external modules is program changes.

 

That's my point, as well. Sadly, others seem to find a lack of Sysex support to be beyond reproach. Hence my tongue-in-cheek post above. ;)

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Actually I have dabbled in sysex a bit within Mainstage.

 

When I still had my MOXF6, I would have Mainstage send a sysex string to it to change in and out of Master Mode.

 

Now then, as much as I love Mainstage, I also have a fully functional up to date Gig Performer program that i have been slowly learning and setting up.

 

The main reason is it works on Mac and PC, and I have been contemplating getting a new robust PC dedicated solely to music performance. It's a matter of $$$$$$ compared to the specs I want in a MBP. Anyway, that's for another topic when and if I decide to go there.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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I use Bidule which is dual-platform. I believe Cantabile is another Windows app made for live gig usage.

 

One rather big difference between these apps and Mainstage is that I believe only Mainstage comes with a bunch of virtual instruments which may or may not be useful to someone.

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I use Bidule which is dual-platform. I believe Cantabile is another Windows app made for live gig usage.

 

One rather big difference between these apps and Mainstage is that I believe only Mainstage comes with a bunch of virtual instruments which may or may not be useful to someone.

 

That is a good point. I think for someone starting out...if they already own the hardware, that Mainstage is a good starting point, since the investment in the software is basically peanuts, given all the sound you get, plus the recently update Autosampler (the old Redmatica).

 

Now that I am using a lot of Arturia, some Kontakt, and Syntronik stuff, it's not as important. PianoTeq is now my main piano.

 

I never would have gotten into those without the ease of learning (for me anyway) of Mainstage and all the built in sounds for cheap.

 

If you don't already have MS compatible hardware, then it become a more expensive proposition, and PC and one of the hosts you mention may be the way to go.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm also having great success with it in my Genesis tribute band. I've got my rig down to the MBP and an 88-key controller. I'm using TruePianos since I had that license already, but most other sounds are coming from M-Tron Pro, VB3, ARP ProSoloVST and Kontakt. I've got 12 songs programmed and the CPU hangs around 8-12% with occasional spikes into the 20s when playing a lot of piano.

 

I've only had a couple of hiccups and those are around the ARP ProSoloVST. It's an abandoned 32-bit plugin and I'm sure there's something not right with the programming. However, I have most of the sounds sampled out of it and can probably retire it soon.

 

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4.

 

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As a purely hardware guy, it doesn't seem like for most gigs that the added complexity of going with something like main stage and a laptop would equal the benefit. Bear with me for a moment. All of the things you mentioned being able to do pulling from one performance to another, etc is all very easy to do in my Kronos. I save setlists for different bands. If one band wants to do a song that I did with another band, I just go to the other setlist, copy that slot, go to the current setlist, insert, done. If I'm putting together a new combination and remember I used a similar patch in another one, just look at that one, pull up that patch in the new one, copy effects, done. And the nice thing is I don't have to worry about routing things between different software and hardware instruments and mixing signals and running cables and interface to a laptop and all that. I don't even have to know what patch change to send to select a song....I touch the square on the screen with the song name.

I get if people want to use a bunch of software instruments and sample libraries, but for most live cover gigs, I question if they're really necessary or if it's more a matter of "want" vs "need". For instance, pianoteq is surely better than the Kronos pianos. But by the time it goes through FOH mixed in a live setting through PA speakers and room acoustics and crowd noise, does anybody know the difference? I haven't yet encountered any sound I can't get in the Kronos. Maybe some software instrument may have a slightly better sounding organ or piano or string, but again, in a live setting, it doesn't seem like it would be better enough to justify the headache of dealing with a laptop, interconnection, and setup of the whole rig vs doing it all in one box.

Then I also hear folks wanting hardware boards to run maintain for redundancy so they have backup sounds. This always cracks me up because it implies the assumption that if something breaks down, it's going to be main stage. Because if the keyboard breaks down, you not only lose those sounds, but you lose the ability to run main stage as well.

 

What am I missing?

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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So, what substitute can us poor Windows users use to get the same functionality as MS?

 

Before switching to Mainstage, I ran Brainspawn Forte on a Windows laptop and it worked pretty great. Some of the MIDI routing was actually easier, at least for me, in Forte than Mainstage. Forte is more expensive and doesn't include any kind of sound library.

 

I haven't used it for 5 years, but it looks like it is still being developed at Brainspawn.com.

 

I tried Bidule, and had a lot of fun with it setting up experimental stuff, but the interface felt too complicated for a regular gigging machine.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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What am I missing?

 

I've never used a Kronos, other than brief demos in a store, and never programmed anything on one. Based on what I've seen, the Kronos has about the best gigging interface of any hardware workstation, so it may be that you aren't missing anything.

 

The only hardware keys I have that would be the equivalent of what I can do in Mainstage would be my Casio PX-5s and Kurzweil PC3. While I could probably cover the range of sounds I need on either of these boards, programming would be a massive headache. In Mainstage, it's really pretty simple.

 

When I switched to Mainstage in 2013, the Kronos was new on the market and very expensive. For about $1500, I was able to get a Mac Mini and a rack to transport it, and I already had the software licenses, like NI Komplete. So Mainstage made a lot more sense to me financially.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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What am I missing?

 

I dunno; Mainstage is $39?

 

A Kronos always sounds like a Kronos?

 

VST/AU gives you way more flexibility should you need it, and some people do?

 

I'd rather edit a Mainstage concert on my 15" laptop screen than try to do anything complex on the tiny font screen on a Kronos?

 

I'm sure I can think of others, and it's not a diss at the Kronos or any hardware... you asked, I offered. ;)

 

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I'd argue you're not missing a lot, aside from the points Sven makes below. As someone about to get a Kronos I'm hoping it will largely replace the need for MainStage although I do trigger some audio files etc prior to some songs but I'm guessing Kronos can handle that as well.

 

The screen real estate is a good point from Sven though :)

 

As a purely hardware guy, it doesn't seem like for most gigs that the added complexity of going with something like main stage and a laptop would equal the benefit. Bear with me for a moment. All of the things you mentioned being able to do pulling from one performance to another, etc is all very easy to do in my Kronos. I save setlists for different bands. If one band wants to do a song that I did with another band, I just go to the other setlist, copy that slot, go to the current setlist, insert, done. If I'm putting together a new combination and remember I used a similar patch in another one, just look at that one, pull up that patch in the new one, copy effects, done. And the nice thing is I don't have to worry about routing things between different software and hardware instruments and mixing signals and running cables and interface to a laptop and all that. I don't even have to know what patch change to send to select a song....I touch the square on the screen with the song name.

I get if people want to use a bunch of software instruments and sample libraries, but for most live cover gigs, I question if they're really necessary or if it's more a matter of "want" vs "need". For instance, pianoteq is surely better than the Kronos pianos. But by the time it goes through FOH mixed in a live setting through PA speakers and room acoustics and crowd noise, does anybody know the difference? I haven't yet encountered any sound I can't get in the Kronos. Maybe some software instrument may have a slightly better sounding organ or piano or string, but again, in a live setting, it doesn't seem like it would be better enough to justify the headache of dealing with a laptop, interconnection, and setup of the whole rig vs doing it all in one box.

Then I also hear folks wanting hardware boards to run maintain for redundancy so they have backup sounds. This always cracks me up because it implies the assumption that if something breaks down, it's going to be main stage. Because if the keyboard breaks down, you not only lose those sounds, but you lose the ability to run main stage as well.

 

What am I missing?

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Having used Mainstage exclusively on gigs now, I find the load in and setup no more "complicated" than using a purely hardware setup.

 

In fact, I find it easier. I have always had a rack with a mixer in it, as well as my in-ear wireless system.

 

Now I have a rack with my audio i/o and wireless in -ear system. The audio i/o is also a good mixer.

 

I show up, unfold keyboard stand, place my 88 and 61 boards on stand, run 1 usb cable from each to the rack, open my laptop and turn it on, and I'm ready to go.

 

No different than running my audio cables from 2 boards to rack mixer, and midi din cables between keys.

 

Again, no knock on Kronos at all. I think it's an awesome board.

 

My current rig's boards are very lightweight, and that's a factor for me now, as well.

 

Added benefit, I have now done a couple fly-in gigs. Each of my mainstage concerts actually have 2 concerts, 1 is designed around my "local" rig personal boards, and it's duplicate is designed with generic boards. That way, I don't worry too much about backline other than making sure each board they provide has USB MIDI.

I also have a Korg Nano Kontrol I use for knobs and sliders so I am not worried about not having a 61 note board with knobs and sliders.

 

So my travel rig consists of my backpack with MBP, Focusrite 2i2, and Nano Kontrol in it. Oh yeah, some USB cable too.

I show up at venue, keys are already setup. I just plug them not my laptop, and I'm ready.

 

 

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm with Dave, but I don't have a rack. Just the laptop and my little Roland controller. Easier to carry than a hardware board, at least for any local gigs I do as well as fly dates. And once I plug in my USB cable, SSD, and audio output, a quick double-click on an Automator icon on the desktop loads my entire setup. (Automator is an Apple "macro" app that comes with every Mac and lets you program a sequence of events like selecting/copying files, running programs, etc., or record "actions" like mouse selecting or keyboard input, then save as a document that executes all the commands with a double-click).

 

Like Dave I also carry a NanoKontrol in case I have to use a different keyboard for any reason. A few blobs of artist's putty adhesive and it's solidly attached to whatever keyboard I use.

 

I would say if you're happy with a Kronos or other hardware, great. There's something to be said for putting a keyboard on a stand, flipping the power switch and being good to go. I definitely have a little more to deal with, but it's not that much more, and my payoff is that I have sounds I enjoy the hell out of playing whether or not anybody else notices or cares. I also have a rig where I can, in effect, program my own "firmware" i.e., I can set up my sliders, knobs & buttons to do exactly what I want them to do.

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I dunno; Mainstage is $39?

Plus the cost of a MBP, plus the cost of all the additional VI's and Plugins it would take to equal what's in the Kronos, plus audio interface. But yes, $39 is a great price, especially if you already own a MBP.

 

A Kronos always sounds like a Kronos?

What does a Kronos sound like? It has 9 different synth engines, some highly editable, not to mention sampling....which can sound like anything. By that logic, main stage always sounds like main stage.

 

I'd rather edit a Mainstage concert on my 15" laptop screen than try to do anything complex on the tiny font screen on a Kronos?

 

Fair Enough, especially given my aging eyes!

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Having used Mainstage exclusively on gigs now, I find the load in and setup no more "complicated" than using a purely hardware setup.

 

In fact, I find it easier. I have always had a rack with a mixer in it, as well as my in-ear wireless system.

 

Now I have a rack with my audio i/o and wireless in -ear system. The audio i/o is also a good mixer.

 

I show up, unfold keyboard stand, place my 88 and 61 boards on stand, run 1 usb cable from each to the rack, open my laptop and turn it on, and I'm ready to go.

 

No different than running my audio cables from 2 boards to rack mixer, and midi din cables between keys.

 

Again, no knock on Kronos at all. I think it's an awesome board.

 

My current rig's boards are very lightweight, and that's a factor for me now, as well.

 

Added benefit, I have now done a couple fly-in gigs. Each of my mainstage concerts actually have 2 concerts, 1 is designed around my "local" rig personal boards, and it's duplicate is designed with generic boards. That way, I don't worry too much about backline other than making sure each board they provide has USB MIDI.

I also have a Korg Nano Kontrol I use for knobs and sliders so I am not worried about not having a 61 note board with knobs and sliders.

 

So my travel rig consists of my backpack with MBP, Focusrite 2i2, and Nano Kontrol in it. Oh yeah, some USB cable too.

I show up at venue, keys are already setup. I just plug them not my laptop, and I'm ready.

 

 

Since Kronos is my only sound source, I don't need any kind of rack or mixer. Midi from controller to Kronos, audio to DI.

 

Now the fly-in gigs make the most sense of any argument I've heard. I'm not doing any of those, but if I was, that in and of itself would probably be reason enough to consider a main stage rig instead.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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As a longtime MS user I don't find it any more complicated than my hardware setup. You certainly have the flexibility to make it way more complicated but that's self inflicted.

You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

 

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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I swapped from Cantabile and Windows to OSX and MainStage just so I could use MainStage and in particular the screen display in Perform mode. Being able to see the active controls, drawbar settings etc. and set list at glance is the thing that sets MainStage apart from its peers. It has worked seamlessly for me ever since.

 

No other host comes with the range of built-in virtual instruments and effects that are included in MainStage. Interesting how these get very little recognition. Take for example Alchemy, when it was multi platform it was one of the most highly regarded synths available, once Apple bought it and included it in its built-in range of VI's it now gets almost zero recognition.

 

As David points out once you have built a patch or channel strip it is always there to pull into another concert, to easy.

 

Another factor to take into account when comparing OSX and Windows is that OSX has CoreAudio and CoreMidi built-in. This means I get a low latency plug and play solution out of the box. I spend my time playing not optimising drivers and system settings.

 

 

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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A Kronos always sounds like a Kronos?

What does a Kronos sound like? It has 9 different synth engines, some highly editable, not to mention sampling....which can sound like anything. By that logic, main stage always sounds like main stage.

You miss the point, in a Kronos the AP or Hammond emulation is always going to sound like that Korg engine. In MainStage or any host for that matter, it will sound like your AP of choice, be it Pianoteq or Ravenscroft or any of the other 30 or so AP's on the market. Same with Hammond, your choice of B-5, or VB3 wrapped in 32 Lives, Blue 3 or several others. Plus 30 or more EP's and 100's of synths.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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I get if people want to use a bunch of software instruments and sample libraries, but for most live cover gigs, I question if they're really necessary or if it's more a matter of "want" vs "need". For instance, pianoteq is surely better than the Kronos pianos. But by the time it goes through FOH mixed in a live setting through PA speakers and room acoustics and crowd noise, does anybody know the difference? I haven't yet encountered any sound I can't get in the Kronos. Maybe some software instrument may have a slightly better sounding organ or piano or string, but again, in a live setting, it doesn't seem like it would be better enough to justify the headache of dealing with a laptop, interconnection, and setup of the whole rig vs doing it all in one box.

 

This is the way I think as well. Don't overdo it. As someone, wiser than me, said: "Good enough" is not nearly as wonderful a thing as "perfect", but it's good enough.

 

Then I also hear folks wanting hardware boards to run maintain for redundancy so they have backup sounds. This always cracks me up because it implies the assumption that if something breaks down, it's going to be main stage. Because if the keyboard breaks down, you not only lose those sounds, but you lose the ability to run main stage as well.

 

I actually used Mainstage (and loved it) up until one particular, high profile and high paying, gig where the whole setup decided to fail on me in the middle of the show. All fine again after a reboot, but I still feel the pain in my stomach. Now I'm all HW.

 

Rock bottom bass

Fakebook Pro Sheet Music Reader - at every gig!

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David, I'm happy that MainStage is working so well for you. I would love to hear some audio or video of you playing your MainStage rig in a live context.

 

I currently use hardware most of the time but have dabbled with MainStage and have considered buying a Kronos. A few weeks ago I did a gig with MainStage using my CP4 as a controller. The software AP's I used were PianoTeq and Ivory II. They both sounded very good and played well. Does the Kronos have an AP that sounds as good for live performance? If so, I've yet to hear it (but, of course, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist). On my recent MainStage gig I used B5 for Hammond. This is where it really fell apart for me. My Mojo and HX3 module sound so much better / authentic. I understand Kronos uses the CX3 organ. I had a CX3 in the past and, to my ears, it doesn't compete with the Mojo or HX3. On EPs the MainStage rig shined -- I was using Scarbee.

 

So, I find myself unable to make the shift from hardware to MainStage because, for me, the playing experience is less than. If organ was less important to me I would no doubt feel differently as this is where hardware sounds much better to me. I haven't spent much time on strings, horns, or synths as I feel that I need to nail AP, B3, and EP first. For the reasons I've shared I haven't bought a Kronos but understand I may not be fully informed/educated on it's greatness. Clearly, many love it.

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So, what substitute can us poor Windows users use to get the same functionality as MS?

 

Before switching to Mainstage, I ran Brainspawn Forte on a Windows laptop and it worked pretty great. Some of the MIDI routing was actually easier, at least for me, in Forte than Mainstage. Forte is more expensive and doesn't include any kind of sound library.

 

I haven't used it for 5 years, but it looks like it is still being developed at Brainspawn.com.

 

From their website:

 

After 15 years and four major versions, Ive made the difficult decision to stop active development and support of Forte. Forte has been a very rewarding product to create and Ive enjoyed meeting many of you, even if only online. However, given the current market for music software, and my own time , I dont see how I can invest in the product going forward with enough time and quality to keep it competitive.

 

Forte licenses will continue to work as before because there is no dependency upon the web site, but I will no longer be releasing updates, selling new licenses, or servicing the support portal according to the following timeline:

 

February 28, 2018 the online store will close and I will no longer sell new licenses.

May 31, 2018 The support portal including the forums will shut down.

This should enable anyone who still wishes to purchase a license to do so and also enable users to download the product for future re-installation (including back revisions.)

 

Thank you all for your support of Forte over the years. I hope it has been a useful tool in your musical endeavors.

Mike

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