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#2923162 - 04/24/18 11:47 AM Recent Guitar News
DocPate Offline
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We have a thread going on the other forum that I thought might be of interest here?

Tronical to sue Gibson for $50 million
By Michael Astley-Brown (Total Guitar, Guitaris

Company behind guitar auto-tuning systems, marketed as G-Force, taking legal action



Tronical, the German firm whose Powertune automatic ‘robot’ guitar tuning systems were first introduced in 2005, has announced it is suing Gibson for $50 million.

The company, which identifies itself as 'the exclusive licensor of auto-tuning', has today stated it is bringing legal action against Gibson Brands, which has been pending before the Hamburg State Court since December 2017.

In a statement issued to MusicRadar, Tronical founder Chris Adams said, "Tronical is claiming licensing fees to the amount of 23 million US dollars from the share in the profits agreed in the contract, and a further 27 million US dollars on the grounds of Gibson’s breach of contract of the exclusive research and development agreement with Tronical, which Gibson should have met by 2026."

Tronical’s technology has been marketed on Gibson guitars as the G-Force automatic tuning system (previously known as Min-ETune), and was first introduced to the guitar giant's electrics with the advent of the Robot Guitar in 2007.

The tech became standard issue with the launch of Gibson's controversial 2015 range, but following a mixed reaction among guitarists, it was assigned to High Performance electrics only in 2016 and 2017, and appears on just a handful of models in the 2018 line-up.

The lawsuit will come as bad news for Gibson, which is already facing a potential $520 million in debt and even bankruptcy, leading to staff layoffs, factory closures and sales of existing brands, including Cakewalk.

For the full story on Gibson’s troubles so far, have a read of our in-depth feature, Gibson: how did we get here?

www.musicradar.com/news/tronical-to-sue-gibson-for-dollar50-million

Read more: http://guitarplayersforum.boards.net/thread/462/current-guitar-news?page=2#ixzz5DcJzNumC


Edited by DocPate (04/24/18 11:48 AM)

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#2923164 - 04/24/18 11:49 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: DocPate]
DocPate Offline
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Allman Brothers Band ‘Peach Picks: Cream Of The Crop 2003’ Due In May

www.jambase.com/article/allman-brothers-band-peach-picks-cream-crop-2003-due-may

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#2923167 - 04/24/18 12:03 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: DocPate]
Larryz Offline
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I think Gibson went in the wrong direction with the robotic tuners. On the LP I bought last year I changed from a Gold Top High Performance with robot tuners to a Gibson Classic with Grover locking tuners in Cherry sunburst. I love the locking tuners and am sure glad I made the change. I think Gibson was throwing those robot tuners on a lot of their lower end jobs just to get rid of them LOL! They had problems with them at first and worked the bugs out later somehow. But they still never really caught on as us older dudes like the older way of tuning. I guess the robotic tuners would be good for the slide and altered tuning guys... cool
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#2923170 - 04/24/18 12:47 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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I'm not sure how much actual profits Tronical can lay a claim to with Gibson. I'd say the robot tuners were a total dud in the Gibson line. At the very least, the concept of automatic tuners did not contribute to Gibson being financially solvent.
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#2923180 - 04/24/18 02:37 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Scott Fraser]
Winston Psmith Offline
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I have to wonder what 'profits' they hope to recover from a failed product line, and what breach there is of a commitment that wasn't supposed to have been fulfilled until 2026?

In an aside, one article I saw online had a photo, showing the robo-tuners on the back of a Fender-style headstock, which raises the question of 'exclusivity', and again, what breach, exactly. Were they prevented from making and distributing their own product under the terms of their contract with Gibson, or were they just banking on Gibson's potential sales to carry their product into the market, having failed to make it on their own? Is suing Gibson the only way they're going to make money on a product that didn't sell? I call bad judgement all around . . .
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#2923194 - 04/24/18 05:16 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
desertbluesman Offline
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I never tried robotic tuners on any guitar I have ever owned, it is easy enough to tune an instrument. I ain't that lazy that I need assistance with tuning.

As for that company suing Gibson, it is gonna be pretty darn hard to squeeze any of the blood out of that stone.
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#2923198 - 04/24/18 05:34 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: desertbluesman]
Sharkman Offline
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I have read a lot of reviews and comments about the G-Force tuners, and I still have not read one review written by anyone who said those things were the best tuners they've ever seen. Remember, no matter how mediocre a product is, there's always at least one person who, for whatever reason, thinks it's the best thing they've ever used or seen. I have yet to see that positive review on those accursed robot tuners.
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#2923224 - 04/24/18 08:19 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Sharkman]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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I tried out a guitar, a Gibson Les Paul, with those tuners- they weren't functioning correctly (dying battery?), and as manual tuners, they were HORRID. A total, complete no-go and deal breaker for me on ANY guitar.
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#2923263 - 04/25/18 04:49 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Offline
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Heh, they sound like the "4-6-8" GM engine of the guitar world. grin

The "concept" being that the engine would run on four cylinders ordinarily, thereby saving gasoline, and run on six when extra power or speed is needed, and then all eight when it was floored for passing or it was sensed that extra weight(like a boat trailer or mobile home) was being towed. BIG TIME failure! GM's worst decision since making Roger Smith CEO. wink
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#2923272 - 04/25/18 06:05 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: whitefang]
CEB Offline
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I've never used them but do they even really work? All instruments are stretched tuned to varying degree. Not so much on guitars but still I will tweak a guitar's tuning after it is machine tuned.

For example ...Sometimes I SLIGHTLY detune the 3rds for slide.... it just depends.


Edited by CEB (04/25/18 06:06 AM)
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#2923290 - 04/25/18 08:01 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: CEB]
DocPate Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB
I've never used them but do they even really work?


Great question! Anyone have an answer?

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#2923340 - 04/25/18 12:08 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: DocPate]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Originally Posted By: CEB
I've never used them but do they even really work?


Great question! Anyone have an answer?


When they first appeared on Gibsons, a while back, under the name Min-E-Tune, IIRC, one of the Guitars was reviewed in GP, which of course included a review of the robo-tuners themselves. It wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement; at best, it suggested that there would probably be a 'breaking-in' period, but they did not dial right into tune, out of the box. I'll try to find the review, if only so the rest of us can look it up.

I think Sharkman's remarks point out something very telling about this product: no one is waving the flag for these tuners. Somewhere, you will find a fan, or an advocate, for almost any fool thing that's ever been made & marketed for the Guitar: someone went through the time, effort and expense to revive the Gizmotron, of all absurd things. I have never seen anyone using these, I have never heard anyone saying anything positive about them, and most telling of all, Gibson pretty much gave up trying to market them. From the same folks who brought us the Firebird Zero, that shows severe lack of confidence.
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#2923344 - 04/25/18 12:13 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
Winston Psmith Offline
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#2923357 - 04/25/18 01:46 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
Danzilla Offline
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At least the Min-E-Tune made it to production. Aren't we still waiting for Gibson's MaGIC MIDI guitars to roll out?
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#2923368 - 04/25/18 02:13 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Danzilla]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danzilla
At least the Min-E-Tune made it to production. Aren't we still waiting for Gibson's MaGIC MIDI guitars to roll out?


Don't hold your breath . . . There's this thing, but it seems more like a Bluetooth Guitar than MIDI? I'd go for the Fishman Tripleplay, rather than this . . .

Gibson Digital Guitar

According to Wikipedia, the last software revision for MaGIC was 2003; clearly not a priority.
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#2923395 - 04/25/18 04:26 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith


Thanks Brother Winston! I had looked into the robot tuners and almost ordered an LP with them but decided not to. The article confirmed what I had read (i.e. that they work well for altered tuning). If I played slide, I might have been more interested in them. They can get you in close going from tuning to tuning (including your own custom tuning settings) quickly. The article said with in 2.5 cents either way which is not that close at top speed. But the speed could be slowed town for more accuracy. You could then finish them off with an in-line or snap on tuner and check tuning by ear as well...good info! I passed on them and went with the Grover locking tuners. cool
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#2923469 - 04/26/18 07:29 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: desertbluesman]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
I never tried robotic tuners on any guitar I have ever owned, it is easy enough to tune an instrument. I ain't that lazy that I need assistance with tuning.

Most can do that but I think the basic idea of robotic tuners was/is setting up a quick shift to specific, often multiple, non-standard tunings which even then might need tweaking.
A time saver, not a accuracy over-ride.
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#2923545 - 04/26/18 01:48 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Larryz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
The article said with in 2.5 cents either way which is not that close at top speed. But the speed could be slowed town for more accuracy. You could then finish them off with an in-line or snap on tuner and check tuning by ear as well...good info!


Don't forget that you had to dis-engage the robo-tuners in order to fine tune the Guitar, then engage them once more. That, and still having to rely on your ears, or yet another tuner, sounds more like an encumbrance than an enhancement, to me.
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#2923580 - 04/26/18 04:26 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: Larryz
The article said with in 2.5 cents either way which is not that close at top speed. But the speed could be slowed town for more accuracy. You could then finish them off with an in-line or snap on tuner and check tuning by ear as well...good info!


Don't forget that you had to dis-engage the robo-tuners in order to fine tune the Guitar, then engage them once more. That, and still having to rely on your ears, or yet another tuner, sounds more like an encumbrance than an enhancement, to me.


+1 but, I don't know how quickly it would be to engage and dis-engage the auto function for final manual tuning as I didn't get a chance to play with the unit. I know you can't leave some strings 2.5 cents out of tune LOL! It may be as simple as turning on or off a switch or pressing a button. I could see those that use a lot of altered tunings may be able to make the changes rapidly from D to A to G to E to their own custom tunings, etc., and then use their tuner or ear once all the strings are close to being re-tuned. It may save some time making changes. Since I don't use altered tunings, I decided to pass as I can tune pretty fast using standard tuning... cool
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#2923648 - 04/27/18 02:52 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Larryz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I appear to be mistaken about specific models but, I am sure there were several pedals that allowed you to create and store your own tunings. I thought Korg made one of them but, the model I thought is was seems like just a rackmount tuner. But the pedal would allow you to punch up a tuning without string breakage, or fiddling with tuners longer than playing music. When I get some time I`ll see if I can find one.

Here`s one that has a separate app where you can store your tunings-my how times have changed:
https://www.roadietuner.com/


Edited by skipclone 1 (04/27/18 02:55 AM)
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#2923655 - 04/27/18 04:37 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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I suppose if one uses multiple tunings in one sitting, and doesn't have(or can't afford) a multitude of guitars, that device would make sense.

So, what's next?

A device that fastens to the front of your guitar that STRUMS it for ya? rolleyes
Whitefang
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#2923664 - 04/27/18 05:31 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: whitefang]
DocPate Offline
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Keeley strikes Plexi gold with El Rey Dorado overdrive pedal
By Michael Astley-Brown (Total Guitar, Guitarist)

JTM-inspired stompbox features multiple power modes



Keeley has announced what it’s calling “your new go-to box for that Plexi tone”, the El Rey Dorado overdrive pedal.

Two gain modes, accessed via the pedal’s power toggle, are key to its JTM-aping flexibility: lo power mode is louder, girthier and features fewer harmonics, while hi power ups the compression and harmonics for a tighter tone.

https://youtu.be/vfTIGftfWqc

100 hand-built limited-editions El Reys have already sold out, but thankfully, a full production run revs up on 4 May.

From then, the pedal will be available exclusively at Riff City Guitar Outlet, Andertons and Robert Keeley FX for $149.

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#2923677 - 04/27/18 07:28 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: DocPate]
Larryz Offline
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Keeley makes some nice sounding pedals and they are very well made. Not Cheap but worth it IMHO. I could get some Loggins and Messina sounds out of the El Dorado OD... cool
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#2923809 - 04/28/18 04:25 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I'll derail slightly to ask ('cause I'm curious).....

Do any of y'all actually STOMP on a "stomp box", or is it just an easy reference word, like "WHAMmy" for "whammy bar"?
blush Tell ya the truth, I never heard it called a "whammy bar" nor EVER called it that until I read it here in these forums some 15+ years ago. wink And, IMHO, does sound a lot like "baby talk" to me. Like "my bad" and other vernacular. wink
Whitefang
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#2923842 - 04/28/18 08:12 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I've always called the stomp boxes a pedal. Even though there are some with pedals like a wah wahs, cry babys, volume pedals, flangers, stereo panners, etc., most of them are really not pedals. Stomp box verses multi effects verses effects or whatever is just guitar lingo IMHO. There can be some stomping, tap dancing or toe tapping ballerina work involved, depending on the aggressive nature of the user LOL!

We always called the whammys a vibrato bar or referred to them as our tremolo bars (trem for short)...unless they were a Bigsby and/or a Floyd Rose (and they could just be called a Bigs or a Floyed or a Rose for short). I think the Whammy Bar (or Whammy) just came about somewhere along the way. cool


Edited by Larryz (04/28/18 08:19 AM)
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#2923852 - 04/28/18 08:51 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
I'll derail slightly to ask ('cause I'm curious).....

Do any of y'all actually STOMP on a "stomp box", or is it just an easy reference word, like "WHAMmy" for "whammy bar"?
blush Tell ya the truth, I never heard it called a "whammy bar" nor EVER called it that until I read it here in these forums some 15+ years ago. wink And, IMHO, does sound a lot like "baby talk" to me. Like "my bad" and other vernacular. wink
Whitefang


@Whitefang - I'm old enough that the first 'slang' term I recall is "Fuzzbox", late 60's through the 70's, at least. I didn't start hearing "Stompbox" until maybe the mid-80's, or thereabouts?

I'm not sure where it came from, but I do recall that some of the early push-button type footswitches would require a fairly convincing 'stomp' to engage them, especially after repeated use & abuse. IME, stomping on your pedals just wears out the switches long before you should.

BTW, in answer to a previous post - there's been more than one attempt to make a Guitar Strummer, most of them DIY projects, but I have vague memories of at least one real product? Don't search on "Strummer Guitar", or you'll get endless links to the late Joe Strummer of The Clash, and the signature Guitar Fender made.
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#2923921 - 04/28/18 03:09 PM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
Winston Psmith Offline
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In an effort to ease the thread back on topic, this was a slightly different approach, incorporating Auto-Tune into a Guitar. No mechanical tuners, but an onboard DSP that 'tunes' the output signal. FWIW, I've never seen anyone using one of these, either?

Peavey AT-200 Auto-Tune Guitar
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#2923982 - 04/29/18 04:08 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Winston Psmith]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Ugh-error #503-`temporarily down for maintenance`.
Someday I`m going to have to write down the list of error codes.
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#2924038 - 04/29/18 09:30 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Offline
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That Peavey Auto Tune is a cool concept Winston. I have always wondered why phantom power is not used via the guitar cord to power active pickups...this one does so. Maybe not at 48 volts but at enough to replace the 4 onboard batteries. The strumming polyphonic tuners as opposed to single string chromatic clip-ons have been around for little while. Not sure if the robot and Auto tune tuners came 1st of if the polyphonic stomp box did? Kind of a chicken or the egg thing for me...

Anyway the thread on the other site and on this one is interesting and incorporates not just auto tuner concepts (like the Keeley pedal) but other new stuff that is out there (like Fred's new toy) along with newsworthy stories. Glad you brought the thread here too Doc! I would like to try that Peavey one of these days and the price seems more than reasonable...great info Winston! cool
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#2924175 - 04/30/18 04:28 AM Re: Recent Guitar News [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Man, what they WON'T come up with these days!

I remember when (cuz my buddy's DAD was big into shooting and showing home movies back in the "day") "self threading" film projectors were a "revolution". How soon now before a "self-stringing" guitar hits the market? wink
Whitefang
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