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#2920257 - 04/09/18 09:55 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Mills Dude]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2977
Loc: NYC area
I'm old enough to remember dubbing cassette decks. Did the recording industry try and stop those from being manufactured & sold?

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#2920263 - 04/09/18 10:18 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Mike Martin]
drawback Offline
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Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3670
Loc: Victoria BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mike Martin
+1
This thread should be re-titled. ďWhich socially acceptable music theft tool do you use?Ē


I use any keyboard that exactly replicates the sounds & effects from classic tunes, so I can make money off the backs of the original artists in my "tribute" band.
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#2920267 - 04/09/18 10:30 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Markay]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markay
I figure with YouTube that the rights owner can take the content down anytime they like. Every one knows that from the day after YT launched that downloader software has been available.

If people downloading their YT content for later viewing or listening bothered the rights owner they would take it down. If they haven't then I take that as tacit approval that the content is in the public domain and the rights owner has accepted we now live in a different world, just as the free to air broadcasters have by now encouraging time shifted viewing.
I'm not able to find the stories ATM, but there have been a lot of cases where artists didn't want their material on YT, and YT either didn't take it down, or as soon as it's taken down, someone else posts the song again. Some artists have given up.

On top of that, YT pays squat according to the reports I've seen.

https://thetrichordist.com/2017/01/26/yo...-and-heres-why/

But in no case are these songs in the public domain. Maybe you meant something else, but just because they are available to listen to this way or online generally does it mean they are in the public domain.
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#2920269 - 04/09/18 10:38 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Mills Dude]
analogika Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/15/17
Posts: 180
Loc: Germany
Ahem: Were I to use such a tool, I would probably use 4K Video Downloader on the Mac.

Lets people download any video from a number of sources, and directly load the audio as mp3 or aac.

https://www.4kdownload.com/?source=videodownloader

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#2920273 - 04/09/18 10:47 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Joe Muscara]
Mike Martin Offline
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Registered: 01/10/01
Posts: 3043
Loc: Naperville, Ilinois
I'd like to a little perspective to my original comment.

I've simply run into so many people across a wide age range that have populated a huge amount of their music collection with music that they have not purchased, but downloaded from Youtube. This ranges from high school kids, college students to adults with thousands of songs that they've acquired this way. They think it is cool to say how many songs they have in their collection...etc.Personally I'm paying my sons Apple Music (student priced) subscription to at least keep him from doing what all of his friends do - and what they seem to think is acceptable. I'm not saying that anywhere here does.

I also find it a tragedy that within days of releasing an album friends of mine find their entire album on Youtube where it can easily downloaded. Yes they go through the motions of having it taken down....etc but I find it really sad that people think it is okay to do this.

So my comment wasn't based on "fair use" or directly aimed at members of this forum but rather the state of the industry which in general is in a very interesting place.

In advance of Spotify going public yesterday I heard a news station on the radio say that Spotify's business model may not be very good because $.75 of every $1 was going to the ARTIST. I spit my drink on the dash as we all know musicians are not making anything much from streaming.

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#2920291 - 04/09/18 11:31 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Reezekeys]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
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Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
I'm old enough to remember dubbing cassette decks. Did the recording industry try and stop those from being manufactured & sold?


They didn't need to because unlike digital format like DAT the cassette format was a lousy media that didn't create perfect copies.

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#2920292 - 04/09/18 11:32 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Mike Martin]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7044
Loc: S. Ca. USA
I am not a super visionary, Mr Martin.. so all I can say is kind of commonplace... This world
seems crazier than ever. A world where standards are constantly tested, stretched twisted.. words do not mean what they used to. It kind of wears on you after a few decades of it.

My rant was not really intended for Mr Martin or J Dan. I like both of them. I just do that sort of thing ( vent to the world at large. ) every now and then, when the craziness just gets to me.

Like I say... I never wanted this technology to invade the music I loved. But it did. So I go into a rougher, less crossing of all my t's, kind of mode.

Crazy is a term we and I use when a better term or turn of phrase is not available to my intellect. Actually, my saying "this is crazy" is a sign of the lessening of intelligence. The uncountable changes in society are overwhelming.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (04/09/18 11:53 AM)
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#2920311 - 04/09/18 12:06 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Bobby Simons]
allan_evett Offline
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Registered: 03/18/09
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons

I'm not building a music library for myself on the cheap. I can live with myself having committed these transgressions, and there'll be no deathbed requests for absolution.


This is what I go with. If it's to learn songs for a gig, then I'll find the quickest, easiest method to access and transcribe. A bandleader-provided book is all but ancient history now. Last one I saw was around 1998. I won't waste time and spend money prepping for a gig, especially when local venue pay rates are the same as in the early 1990s.
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#2920313 - 04/09/18 12:14 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: allan_evett]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
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Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: allan_evett
I won't waste time and spend money prepping for a gig, especially when local venue pay rates are the same as in the early 1990s haven't changed since the late 1970s.


FIXED

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#2920314 - 04/09/18 12:15 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
El Lobo Offline
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Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 1035
I copied vinyl LP's to reel-to-reel. Then I copied them to cassette. Then I had a dual cassette deck to copy cassettes. Then I had a CD player and I burned tunes to CD's with my computer. Then I copied tunes from my computer to a flash drive. I no longer have a record player, reel-to-reel tape deck, cassette player or dual cassette deck, or a CD player (except in my 10-year-old car). I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs. Mostly I don't bother to download them and convert to mp3 because I can learn them just from playing the vid. I just learned a bunch of Tom Petty songs that way because they're fairly simple and straightforward. I learned a bunch of CCR tunes the same way. I download tunes in order to put them on my phone to take to band rehearsal. I never play recorded music anymore just for listening. If I'm playing any recorded music, it's because I'm working on it.

I appreciate the distinction made earlier about theft vs. copyright infringement. If I download a song to work on it or take to rehearsal, I do not consider it theft. It may be copyright infringement, but then it being posted on youtube (over the artist's objections) is also copyright infringement in the first place. But I am not building a collection of tunes to brag about how much music I have stored on my computer or phone, I don't copy any of it to give to others, and I don't play it as a DJ or other commercial purposes.

The world of recorded music has changed enormously over the years and we have all changed with it. It will continue to change. I just hope I can keep up.

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#2920316 - 04/09/18 12:16 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: The Real MC]
stillearning Online   content
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Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 467
Tbh, Iíd guess I made more in the70ís!
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#2920320 - 04/09/18 12:22 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: stillearning]
analogman1 Offline
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Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 842
Loc: UNITED STATES
My purpose for donloading from YouTube, like most others here, is to be able to learn (or re learn!) parts from tunes requested for gigs that I do.
If I were building a music libary, I'd either use CD's or download from Apple music; most of the YouTube videos are crappy quality mono files, and I'm always willing to pay for better quality tunes.
But for learning purposes? My time is worth more to me than having to sit there and re-wind youtube to learn a piano intro or a special solo section.
Just my .02
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#2920325 - 04/09/18 12:30 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: analogman1]
stillearning Online   content
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Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 467
What he said. ^
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#2920532 - 04/10/18 08:55 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: El Lobo]
analogika Offline
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Registered: 10/15/17
Posts: 180
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs.
YouTube is a streaming service.

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#2920535 - 04/10/18 09:06 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: analogika]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7044
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: analogika
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs.
YouTube is a streaming service.


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#2920540 - 04/10/18 09:24 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
El Lobo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 1035
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: analogika
[quote=El Lobo] I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs.
YouTube is a streaming service.


You know what I meant.

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#2920554 - 04/10/18 10:09 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: El Lobo]
analogika Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/15/17
Posts: 180
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Originally Posted By: analogika
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs.
YouTube is a streaming service.


You know what I meant.

Yes, I do, but I don't really see the difference you're making..

YouTube is, for all practical purposes, a streaming services, with all that implies for the rights owners. If you're using YouTube for music, you might as well be using Spotify.

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#2920557 - 04/10/18 10:17 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Mills Dude]
mcgoo Offline
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Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 2455
Loc: Indianapolis
Originally Posted By: Mills Dude
When I was involved and leading worship bands, we frequently used Planning Center. It would gladly allow audio files to be uploaded and shared with the band. Not sure how that doesn't violate copyright, but it's certainly happening.


Off the top of my head, I don't remember if it was a requirement or not.. If not, it probably assumed that by having planning center, your church also had a CCLI membership, and a CCLI rehearsal license, which covers sharing CCLI protected songs (most contemporary worship music) with praise team members.
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#2920566 - 04/10/18 10:45 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: analogika]
El Lobo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 1035
Originally Posted By: analogika
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Originally Posted By: analogika
[quote=El Lobo] I play music from my computer or on my phone. I don't use streaming services at all. I use youtube videos to learn songs.
YouTube is a streaming service.


You know what I meant.


Originally Posted By: analogika
Yes, I do, but I don't really see the difference you're making..

YouTube is, for all practical purposes, a streaming services, with all that implies for the rights owners. If you're using YouTube for music, you might as well be using Spotify.
I don't use Spotify so I don't know how it works. Can you select individual tunes and download them to your device? If so, then you're correct Ė there's no difference. If you can't find a specific tune and download it on Spotify, then that's the difference I was making.

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#2920586 - 04/10/18 11:37 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: WesG]
burningbusch Online   content
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 8040
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: WesG
I find it frustrating that otherwise brilliant people like Mike Martin don't understand the difference between copyright infrigement and theft.

Let me try to explain it to you: If we were both in high school, and I copied your essay, that would be copyright infringement. If I broke into your locker and stole your essay, that would be theft. The difference between the two situations is dramatic: in the case of theft, you no longer have an essay to hand in.

The act of copying a performance from YouTube may, or may not, be copyright infringement -- you must also consider the doctrine of fair use. In this US, this is covered under Title 17, Section 107.

Unless you are prepared to make an argument that Tee here is not exempt under section 107 (which allows use for scholarship, research, etc) -- get off your high freakin horse and STFU.


Yes, I will make a strong case that the OP is not entitled to claim "Fair Use." In fact, fair use has NOTHING to do with an individual accessing copyrighted material without compensation to the owner. It is about the re-publication of typical snippets or small segments of copyrighted material. And the courts are most accepting if it is nonprofit education or non-commercial use. Think research papers, classrooms, documentaries, etc.

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

If the OP were able to claim fair use, then any/all musicians would have full access to all recorded music under the guise of "scholarship, research." And any actress wannabe, all movies, using the same rationale. It doesn't work that way and everyone knows that or should know that.

Besides, "fair use" isn't carte blanc. It is simply legal protection in a few, specific cases and there's no guarantee the court will grant you the exception under "fair use." The best option is still to go the copyright owner and ask permission to include their work in yours.

Theft, copyright protection, it's mincing words IMO. The FBI puts it under the umbrella of "theft of IP." "Theft of IP" is a common phrase, so Mike's use is not not out of line. IP, obviously, is a unique type of property but it is considered property under the law nonetheless. But if calling it copyright infringement helps you sleep at night, knock yourself out.

IMO, the best approach would have been for the OP to simply say: "it's nobody's business how I plan on using these utilities." It isn't my business how he uses this stuff. Funny, there are youtube videos that are in fact PD or CC, but that didn't seem to be in anyone's thinking.

Though I try very hard to be a good citizen in this IP space, I'm not perfect. But I'm not going to rationalize that either. I'm not going to rationalize special case exemptions for myself. We play fast and loose with these laws because it's easy to do and chances of getting caught are slim to none. It's that simple.

Busch.

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#2920589 - 04/10/18 11:42 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: burningbusch]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
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Registered: 11/21/01
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Though I try very hard to be a good citizen in this IP space, I'm not perfect. But I'm not going to rationalize that either. I'm not going to rationalize special case exemptions for myself. We play fast and loose with these laws because it's easy to do and chances of getting caught are slim to none. It's that simple.

Busch.


+1

I completely agree with you.
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#2920591 - 04/10/18 11:44 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: El Lobo]
burningbusch Online   content
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Originally Posted By: El Lobo
I don't use Spotify so I don't know how it works. Can you select individual tunes and download them to your device? If so, then you're correct Ė there's no difference. If you can't find a specific tune and download it on Spotify, then that's the difference I was making.


With Spotify you can download songs to your devices. You can play those offline, but you need to go online within 30 days (that takes just a brief second to do) to reverify your subscription. There is a limit of 3,333 songs per device. I use this to play music in the car or when hiking to avoid data charges.

Busch.

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#2920637 - 04/10/18 02:45 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: burningbusch]
J. Dan Online   content
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If it's a one-off gig and I'll never listen to the song again, I will learn it directly off of YouTube. If I need to download it because I have to run it into ASD or something like that, then I'll buy it. If it's a song I know I'll be rehearsing and playing a lot, I'll buy it.

Another circumstance where I'll practice off YouTube is when I already own the song, but it's not on the device I have next to me to practice off of (like my phone) then it's easier to just pull it off YouTube.

Only time I've downloaded off YouTube as an MP3 was when I couldn't find anywhere to buy it (out of production, maybe?) and had no other choice - in some cases different edits of the song like album cut vs radio cut, etc and needed to learn a specific version.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2920664 - 04/10/18 06:08 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12977
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
I don't use Spotify so I don't know how it works. Can you select individual tunes and download them to your device? If so, then you're correct Ė there's no difference. If you can't find a specific tune and download it on Spotify, then that's the difference I was making.


With Spotify you can download songs to your devices. You can play those offline, but you need to go online within 30 days (that takes just a brief second to do) to reverify your subscription. There is a limit of 3,333 songs per device. I use this to play music in the car or when hiking to avoid data charges.

Cn you play the downloaded songs outside of Spotify? i.e. can you load them into one of the apps that lets you slow things down?
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#2920665 - 04/10/18 06:14 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: AnotherScott]
elseif Offline
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Registered: 05/30/15
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Loc: FL space coast
I use Audacity. Quirky but works.

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#2920668 - 04/10/18 06:28 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: elseif]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: elseif
I use Audacity. Quirky but works.


and the price is right. wink
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#2920833 - 04/11/18 11:45 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: davedoerfler]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1963
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Iím not pure, so iíll Throw the first rock at myself. And i donít judge what anyone else does. Not my business, not my concern. Iíll just say what i do.

I buy songs if i need to learn them and i feel the need to have it, whether for one gig or 100. I have had a few exceptions - where the BL asked me to learn some odd live video version that was never released. In these cases I have dirtied myself.

I saw MMís comment about his son. I buy my son any and all music he wants - i tell him to not take free downloads or make copies off others, iíll buy it. Having never made money as an recording artist, i appreciate artists that do and should. There will be less music in the world if less artists get paid. Or so i hypothesize.

Plus I have plenty of money relative to the cost of music. I can literally buy them singles all day long, day after day, and not notice the dent. Not everyone has that luxury, hence no judging here. I feel at least musicians downloading a song to learn it is a noble cause - unlike all those whiny snot nosed prepubescent brats thieving thousands of songs just to annoy others with it.

I also pay to see my friends play shows. I can get in free, but i pay. Thereís a lot of people that $5 or $10 is a dent, iím blessed its not for me. i tell my pals to let someone else in that needs it, i got it covered for myself. Supporting live music means paying for live music imo. I barely drink at all, if any, they wonít make enough money off me drinking 4 ice waters.
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#2921338 - 04/13/18 08:30 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: MotiDave]
Quai34 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 212
Loc: Canada, MB
When I started to use Setlist maker for my synths, I was loading the songs I Had bought on ITunes into it. If I didn't have the music in my collection, even with some songs that the BL were asking me to learn, I was doing it. But I wanted to have also a file in my Dropbox with the MP3, the Stage 2 programs and the lyrics or any PDFs files that I could use. Most of the time, I buy the pdf from a website like "Sheet music plus". So, as Apple doesn't allow you very easily to transfer an ITunes file into a classic MP3, I was downloading the mo3 from YouTube.
These days, I have switched to Bandhelper that doesn't allow you anymore to attach any songs from your iTunes library!! I even asked the developer how I could do it but the reply was " you cannot do it anymore" it's just mo3 now...
So, I had to reload a huge bunch of songs from YouTube in MP3 just to get going with the new Apps...
Which means that sometimes, even the people who develop Apps designed to promote music (Bandhelper or Aplle...) put you in the position that you even have to "not support anymore the industry".
I don't do a difference between "ok if it's to learn it" or "not ok if it's just to listen to it". Maybe I'm on the old side but I still buy CD's, I still buy most of the music I play/listen via ITunes, I still have books with scores and so on...
So, I would say I agree that systematically downloading music and being proud of not paying for it, or even thinking that because you made music for a living, it's ok to do so isn't the right thing to do for me....If you make music as a living you should help/promote paying for music, right? So, how not paying for music just because you will use it to make a living from it, for you, Will really promote music? You are making dollars on music and want to be paid for your gig but you don't accept to pay for music just because it's just to learn it? That doesn't make any sense....A song is 1$.29, you are paid 200$ to play 20 songs during a gig (ok, maybe more songs and less pay, it's just an easy way to calculate in my head...), so, you are making 10$ per song played.....Don't you think you could pay 1.29$ for it? Your margin is still good....even if you play 40 songs during a gig, you divide it by 2, well, 5$ per song versus 1.29$....You are paid 100$ for 40 songs, still 1,29$ for 2.50$ per song, time two the margin, like in some retail, not bad, right? Ok, if you are paid 50$ for 40 songs, you should really try to find a new job....
So, as a conclusion, yes, paying 1.29$ for a song that is going to bring you back an average of 5$ is kind of fair, so, just pay for it....


Edited by Quai34 (04/13/18 08:34 PM)
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#2921339 - 04/13/18 08:40 PM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: Quai34]
J. Dan Online   content
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Agreed plus your math assumes you'll only play one gig. In reality, say you play the songs at 50 gigs over the next year.....more than make back your money. But again if it's a one-off last minute thing I'll learn it off YouTube out of convenience more than anything. Like I'm at the gig and they spring on me "we're going to play love yourself by Justin Bieber tonight, can you do the trumpet part?" Umm, sure (never even heard the song before). So YouTube it, put the phone up to my ear (onstage minutes before start), pull up a patch and figure it out. Never play it again after that - was probably a request or something. Even though, not opposed to buying it, and maybe I should go back and pay for it since I used it even though I'll never listen to it, but in the last minute crunch to learn it, that was the fastest easiest way to pick it up.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2921355 - 04/14/18 12:43 AM Re: Your go to youtube to mp3 converter, revisited. [Re: J. Dan]
Quai34 Offline
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Registered: 08/05/17
Posts: 212
Loc: Canada, MB
For the 50 gigs per year for a song, yes of course, I was just trying to put myself in the least benefit situation when you play it just one time to see the value of buying versus free download...But yes, I hope it doesn't happen too much for you the last minute request....I set up myself with a Ikne week max, if my BL ask for a song to learn one week, even two weeks before the gig, I declined, I don't play it, k owing that usually, there is no keys in the songs, it's a pure hard rock one and that he ask me to fill way more stuff like crazy driven guitar songs with a lot of distortion and a sand ruthmic guitar just because he wants a back up for his solo....And when I ask a favor in return in playing a song that I like, I'm told that 80's/90's "synths song suck"....But I understand your point, knowing that I have learnt 50 songs in one year and half for ditching them after a while with some not being even played at a gig (well, on the setlist but last minute cancelled...), I would have made the same....
Note that on some signs where I was in your position, where I downloaded first the song to see how it goes, what I could do with it and so on, so, download before versus buying, I finally like the song quite much and dcided to buy it, also because it was so easier to have it directly in my ITunes collection to attach it to setlist maker....
Well, as I said, now I don't have to do it, there is band members who are insisting on me to have the mo3 and as wi this second band I'm e BL, I agree and prepare all of it in Dropbox. But still buy the recording version just to be able to compare it to the live versions I have to download in most case because not being offered in ITunes....
Well, great thread anyway, thanks for having participated in it, it helps to keep in mind these big changes in music cumsuption that have been happening for the past 20 years...
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Stage 2, C2 & NL2X+TC Pedals, Prophet 08 & 12+Tetra&H9, D50+PG1000, 2 Matrix 1K, Proteus 2K, TX802, Streichfett, Drumbrute. Guitars:G&L Legacy, Asat X2, Ibanez Artstar AS153.Bass: L2000, SR1200& 2605.

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