Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Crumar Seven


Recommended Posts

SL88 Studio is a TP/100LR. I don't know the difference in build to a regular TP100, but it feels wonderful to me. Perhaps because I can play with, you know, both L & R hands at the same time.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 832
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

SL88 Studio is a TP/100LR. I don't know the difference in build to a regular TP100, but it feels wonderful to me. Perhaps because I can play with, you know, both L & R hands at the same time.

 

There is a difference between The SL 88 studio and other TP 100s. Most Fatar branded controllers are modded differently than those used as after market in other keyboards.

 

So, drawback, does the LR designation mean that you cant play the Ravel Left Hand or Prokofiev number 4 on the SL 88 studio? /s

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I would give a lot of weight to the opinion of someone as experienced as Jim Kost, let's remember that there's a subjective element to whether you like a particular action (which is not to deny that there is also an objective element).

 

I've played two TP100 keyboards, the Electro HP and the Dexibell S3, and found that I could rather easily adapt to both. It did take more than a day, but it happened. It feels different than anything else but once my fingers adjusted I was able to have an expressive relationship with the keyboard much like any other weighted keyboard, and I was quite happy with the weight-to-playability quotient.

 

I returned the Dexibell after two weeks but it wasn't because of the action.

 

The Seven may be different for some reason. My only point is that, in my experience, the TP100 action is a different approach to hammer action that requires some adaptation.

 

:2thu::2thu::2thu::2thu::2thu:

 

Our instruments would like to reflect our way of thinking about keyboards, in all aspects: sounds, design, action, feelings. But, again, it's OUR way of thinking, not necessarily the common sense.

First of all, we need to be satisfied as musicians and as keyboards (vintage keyboards probably better) lovers.

TP40 for Seven was not an option, probably good for acoustic pianos, probably good for you, probably not ideal for another one. The keybed we have choosen is ideal, first of all, for us.

I'm not informed about mods made by other manufacturers in the TP100LR , and I'm not sure that this is possible: what I know for sure is that you can't order one model with "stop" at the bottom and another one without it... in our experience, when you are dealing with "hammer action keyboards" the chassis of the instrument is a part of the keybed itself and can make a big difference.

www.crumar.it

info@crumar.it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in our experience, when you are dealing with "hammer action keyboards" the chassis of the instrument is a part of the keybed itself and can make a big difference.

 

So that we can get a better idea about the Seven in comparison to other TP/100 instruments - which version did you go with and how does the Sevens chassis play into the key drop.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a shame you couldn't drop the keybed of your choice in it (within reason of course). Like different keybeds that had two sensors only, 73 keys only, blah blah blah so that if you really wanted to use a different keybed and it was on the list, the user could just purchase one and drop it in. I'll bet at the end of the day with all of the complaints about keybeds only about 3 dozen keybeds would get swapped out.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in our experience, when you are dealing with "hammer action keyboards" the chassis of the instrument is a part of the keybed itself and can make a big difference.

 

So that we can get a better idea about the Seven in comparison to other TP/100 instruments - which version did you go with and how does the Sevens chassis play into the key drop.

 

This is the case when words can't solve the puzzle: only hands :-)

www.crumar.it

info@crumar.it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Also - what other boards use the TP100 keybed?

 

The Zarenbourg use the TP100. and i like it .

ahhh if only i could easily hack my zarenbourg to add the seven control panel& soundbord between the tp100 and the speakers..humm Andrea, Guido, if you have an opinion ... hehe

the Seven looks to be a really nice tool anyway.

Zarenbourg, gemini desktop , Zoom R24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly OT, the other day I went in to my repair guy Butch to fix my BX3, and there was an old Korg SG1 sitting there. I used to gig with one, so I played a few notes for old time sake. Holy shit, the action was disgusting to me. How did I ever deal with that?

I've sized down, play out with just one board now, either the SW electro 4 73 or the sw hammond sk1 73. If those actions are different, I can't tell and don't care---as a happy medium between B3, Rhodes, and Wurlie, I'm fine with either/both. All digital pianos sound crappy to me, so I don't go there too often. I've become very friendly with that sw action.

 

Everybody's different--so Andrea and Guido shouldn't freak out because some people hate the TP100 action. They're gonna do just fine.

 

I'm in love with the form factor, looks, and demos re the Seven. I'm not in a situation to afford a new board at the moment.

 

But....when/if they ever came out with a 6-octave with sw waterfall keys, I'd be all over it like pachouli at a Dead concert---if you lose the legs, lose the hammer action, you take 15 pounds and 500 bucks out of the equation. That's me...we all want what we want.

 

de gustibus non est disputandum....its the only thing I've retained from my Latin classes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hammond B-2, Leslie 122, Hammond Sk1 73, Korg BX3 2001, Leslie 900, Motion Sound Pro 3, Polytone Taurus Elite, Roland RD300 old one, Roland VK7, Fender Rhodes Mark V with Roland JC90
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fender or Gibson? Big fight waiting to happen.

 

Hammond B-2, Leslie 122, Hammond Sk1 73, Korg BX3 2001, Leslie 900, Motion Sound Pro 3, Polytone Taurus Elite, Roland RD300 old one, Roland VK7, Fender Rhodes Mark V with Roland JC90
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you purchased a Gemini module you could trigger the VB3 organ with an organ controller of your choice and trigger the EP's from an EP controller of your choice. You're basically getting the same sound set (except for the acoustic piano), with bi-timbrality for 1/2 the cost and could play it from the keybed of your choice.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you purchased a Gemini module you could trigger the VB3 organ with an organ controller of your choice and trigger the EP's from an EP controller of your choice. You're basically getting the same sound set (except for the acoustic piano), with bi-timbrality for 1/2 the cost and could play it from the keybed of your choice.

 

Right. GSi has this covered and of youre particularly picky on action (like a lot of us) this would be the route to go. It might be possible to get the piano running on the Gemini - it doesnt thrill me today and the Gemini has a sample if you really need it - I know Jazz+ is hot to get the AP model on his Mojo61. Im more inclined to go Gemini desktop/rack route than the Seven. Although the Sevens user interface looks like candy and the build is retro stylish - and ANY action made plays better than my MkI. But thats not saying much! :D

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My experience with the TP-100 is quite different. I have a SL88 Studio controller and I find it wonderful for controlling EPs and acoustic pianos. If the Seven feels the same ( why wouldn't it? ) .......

 

TP100s are not created equal. It's a mystery of the universe.

 

It's long been a Nord claim that they customise standard Fatar keybeds in one way or another these observations would seem to back up that claim.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Listened to the demos, and as civilized western world-ers, there's always the let's not be crude musicians stuff, so, I suppose (I don't know the price) some people will love it that a European company (again) makes an affordable electronic/digital musical instrument. That's cool.

 

I don't like the sound of it at all, though , I must admit. I don't think it's the playing style of the various demos (some have vanished), or the particular choices of explicit parameters, they just don't really work. The sound won't sound very good loud, I think, and there's an almost complete lack of life in them, as I perceive it. All that I'd look for in interesting instruments is not much there, a few nice tries, some well chosen tricks, but nothing meaty to me.

 

T

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny, I used to think that too. I have all the latest VST rhodes and thought I loved them so much more than my Gemini. A few months back I decided to dive in and use only the Gemini. A month in I did one gig with the vsts. I quickly realized that the response and playability of the modelled Rhodes had so much more life to it. Like a real analog instrument. Closest hand to ear feeling I had since I sold my last Rhodes a year again. My Seven comes today. I've seeked out key actions that are light like a good rhodes with the bump in the key action. I've been using Studiologic tp9 actions in the SL900 and SL90. Older and usually not preferred actions but they just worked for me. Because they are old though, I'm looking to the Seven to last and be an easier set up with more tactile control over the effects. I'll let you know. Having been in a band with Mitch I've always held his sound as a bar for what I like. So my ear is not perfect but quite used to hearing from one of the best. 😉
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also not a fan of the TP/100

though I seem to remember there was some board where you liked it on the EPs, right? Or maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

 

TP100s are not created equal. It's a mystery of the universe.

Personally, my split seems to align with whether it is the 2-sensor or 3-sensor version. (The presence of aftertouch did not seem to be a determining factor.) Since I wouldn't expect the presence of another sensor by itself to dramatically alter the feel, I wonder if there was some other change made as part of the redesign for 3rd sensor.

 

Specifically, I really disliked the Numa Nano and Arturia (aftertouch) and the Artis (no AT), all 2-sensor. I found the 3-sensor Numa Stage (AT) and Dexibell (no AT) much more playable (even though still not my favorite actions).

 

I wonder why Crumar didn't go for the quality TP40 action in the Seven? If you're a Rhodes connoisseur, weight is a secondary concern.

 

(But Mike - it already weights 52lb? Yes. Yes it does. In its case. Compare with other boards in a hard case if you must do a comparison).

They say it actually felt better as an EP controller, and I can see that, in that the 3-sensor TP100s I've played do seem more Rhodes-like than the TP40s I've played. TP40 does have a snappier response, but Rhodes actions were not the snappiest (though admittedly they varied themselves).

 

That 52 lbs would top 60 lbs with a TP40. That would still be a negatve too. Somewhere, people do draw the line, or it at least becomes one more factor in how appealing something is.

 

Hmmm, I wonder what the difference is between the TP 100 that makes some have that 'stop' at the bottom? Maybe there's a mod possible to correct this?

I'm not informed about mods made by other manufacturers in the TP100LR , and I'm not sure that this is possible: what I know for sure is that you can't order one model with "stop" at the bottom and another one without it

I don't know about the TP100, but the Numa Organ 2 TP8O differs from the action in the original two ways... different spring, and a felt strip on the front piece that the keys land on, which slightly shortens the throw. Anything that raises the landing point will work to do that, as long as it doesn't raise the landing so much that the key can't trigger the lowest sensor. So at least on some actions, that's something a manufacturer can do to alter the feel of a Fatar.

 

Anyone know what Fatar action is in the VMK61?

My recollection is that its the 08L.... I THINK thats the right number designation for their waterfall-organ action, but I will check.

There are different versions of the VMK61, with organ and piano actions. The one with the piano action uses a TP40.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you purchased a Gemini module you could trigger the VB3 organ with an organ controller of your choice and trigger the EP's from an EP controller of your choice. You're basically getting the same sound set (except for the acoustic piano), with bi-timbrality for 1/2 the cost and could play it from the keybed of your choice.

Yes - thats what I do for gigs. Nord 5D controlling VB3 and RD64 for the Gemini EPs. Would be nice to have the Seven at home though. Didnt notice the travel on the SL Studio was shorter than other keybeds Ive owned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's not turn this into another "TP100 sux!!1" thread. Important because the Seven has it, yes, but plenty of great players and successful artists can be seen on stage ripping it up on this action. It is far from unplayable.

 

Looking forward to reading more reviews about playability and sound.

Hammond SKX

Mainstage 3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's not turn this into another "TP100 sux!!1" thread.

 

Hear Hear. So many people here just can't wait to crap on Fatar at the drop of a hat. Their keyboards are legit. The Mojo feels fantastic, the TP 40 and 100 are solid and their synth action in the Sledge and Moog Voyager is awesome. I don't see the reason behind the hate, they seem to be on a higher level than Korg's and Yamaha's keys.

 

I need more review talk of the Seven. Not three pages of people wiping their A's with the TP100 like it's a Roland KC500 amp.

 

Domo

 

Oh and Guido, while you're at it, throw a few lire Max's way we need more demo's of the Seven on YouTube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually had a chance to try the Seven today. It's quite playable with the TP100, didn't notice any short "key travel". I think it feels better than Nord or Arturia. I can see how it'll work well for EP sounds.

Noticed something strange though - if you turn volume down and switch sounds - it goes back to max volume. Pretty sure it's an easy fix in future updates. Can't comment on AP sounds as it was connected to a cheap amp, but EP's sounded very similar to the Grandstage that was sitting next to Seven.

 

Also I don't think that manufacturers have the knowledge and tools to modify actions, except how they are mounted to the chassis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Also I don't think that manufacturers have the knowledge and tools to modify actions, except how they are mounted to the chassis.

 

 

Andrea said in an earlier post that some action anomalies are due to the differing distances between the casing and bottom of the action mechanism, if I am remembering his words correctly. this would make sense in accounting for some differences in mechanisms, modified or not.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Also - what other boards use the TP100 keybed?

 

The Zarenbourg use the TP100. and i like it .

ahhh if only i could easily hack my zarenbourg to add the seven control panel& soundbord between the tp100 and the speakers..

 

Ive played one too and I like the action as well. no artifically stopped key travel.

see my comment directly aove

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Seven arrived today and I've played it for a couple of hours. I really like the action and it's super fun to play. My Mojo 61 sits well on top and will make a great rig for gigs. It's a keeper. I'm not going to write a review, but I'm happy to answer any questions. Cheers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...