Crumar Seven

[mate stubb]

The problem action wise with heavy hammer actions is the clavinet. You absolutely cannot execute correct technique on a sluggish hammer action.

[jimkost2002]

Mate, you are 100% right about the heavy hammer actions and the Clavinet.....but the other component in that is key REBOUND.....if that return/rebound is too slow, you cant excute the ideas with the right snap, like having bad drum heads.

[jimkost2002]

Elmer, I dont have MIDI on my VV, but, I have payed VVs and Rhodes Pianos with MIDI.

They play equally as well as those without.

I have played ALL of the above except the Doepfers.

The Arturia 88 is abysmal.

I agree the Roland is too shallow, but its not as bad as the Seven nor the Keylab88.

The Studio SL 88 grand with the TP40/wood is quite good, but the BEST are the Fortes....(I will be getting a Forte 7 later this year)

 

 

[zoooombiex]

Thanks for the detailed review!

 

Do you mind clarifying the "weird bell like model" that you found in the top octave? Is that different from the "contact noise" thing I asked about earlier? (and btw, thanks for your quick response on that)

 

Soundwise, your comments are interesting because at the top you said you much preferred Crumar's emulations to Nord. But I had a Mojo 61 and Nord together for quite a while and much preferred the Nord. And the demos so far have been consistent with what I recall. (Really love the Mojo organ though.) No beef with anyone preferring one or the other, but it kind of throws me off in terms of how your observations might translate to me. But the comparisons to the original units are a helpful reference point regardless.

 

The comments on the action are obviously disappointing. And I agree with the catch-22 trying to make an appropriate action for a clav and EP's. I personally find it easier to play EP/piano on a lighter action than clav/organ on a heavy action. So this seems to further weigh against the Seven as a good fit for me.

 

Wonder how long until they have something in Ohio I can try in person. Not sure I want to take a chance on a new one without trying it first.

[jimkost2002]

Its that high harmonic present when the pickup is adjusted away from the tine.

Best known in the Dyno sound which emphasizes said high harmonic.

[zoooombiex]

thanks! (another strike unfortunately...)

[kenheeter]

Jim, what's your take on the modeled accoustic piano? Thanks, Ken

[jeffincltnc]

Jim, thank you so much for this detailed review. I have been looking at Seven with lots of interest and curiosity, and love the look and aesthestics, but see this as having two red flags -- the TP/100 action (ugh! - hate it!) and the limitations of the acoustic piano today.

 

It sounds like I'm in the right place (for me, at least) with the Kurzweil Forte 7 and agree that with Purgatory Creek and Weiser sounds, it's an improvement over Nord and a much more buttery action for a 73/76 keybed.

 

She's still a beauty, that Seven, though!

[AndreaAgnoletto]

Sorry for jump on this but I really would like to point out two things:

1) Action: Seven is designed mainly for electric pianos... do you really think we decided to select that kind of keybed only for cost/weight reason? We tried ALL KEYBEDS both from "that famous italian brand" both from other Chinese manufacturers, and our choice was made for that model because, in our opinion is best fitting for electric piano experience.

2) Acoustic piano: same reason... we are talking about an instrument designed for electric pianos first of all. Do you want to know the truth? We decided to add acoustic in November 2017. Before that date, and all prototypes made, were without acoustic piano sound.

 

I know it's not so easy to understand something different than what we had been used to for decades (digital piano = first sound = sampled grand piano) but, please try to place "Seven" in the right place, comparing it to something REALLY similar: similar in design, similar in sounds (fully modeled), similar in price.

 

Find one please ;-)

[jeffincltnc]

Andrea,

 

It's not my place to tell you how to design your products, but it should be of interest if the first unit that lands in the US and purchased is sent back for return the day it's reviewed because of the action.

 

I would love to be a Crumar customer, but for me (and I'm just one person), the TP/100 is a non starter. I told Nord the same thing after owning 3 of their products for 11 years that the keybed is a big part of the playing experience.

 

As someone who also works in marketing new products, I would be very aware as to why my first paying customer in the US was sending it back the next day.

 

Sound, form and build on this are fantastic, by the way.

 

Jeff

[jimkost2002]

Andrea, I love the concept, sounds and design of the Seven. I fully understand the primary purpose as an EP model-that is VISALLY apparent in the design. Personally, I found the action to be flawed in the depth of key travel. Other TP 100s I have played had a different, longer key travel. Are you able to disclose whether your action is stock or if it was modded?

For the record, I am exchanging the Seven for a Mojo 61 to use as my Electromechanical modeling keyboard. I love the sounds, interface and portability!

[Pigmeat]

It will be interesting to hear other reviews of the keybed action. Everyone has different preferences and some may say that they really like the action on the Seven.

[ABECK]

How was the weight/transport/setup/breakdown experience? Watching some of the vids, it seems quite manageable. Curious what your take was on that.

 

Also - what other boards use the TP100 keybed? My most recent weighted action board was the FA08 - and I really liked that action.

[Adan]

Although I would give a lot of weight to the opinion of someone as experienced as Jim Kost, let's remember that there's a subjective element to whether you like a particular action (which is not to deny that there is also an objective element).

 

I've played two TP100 keyboards, the Electro HP and the Dexibell S3, and found that I could rather easily adapt to both. It did take more than a day, but it happened. It feels different than anything else but once my fingers adjusted I was able to have an expressive relationship with the keyboard much like any other weighted keyboard, and I was quite happy with the weight-to-playability quotient.

 

I returned the Dexibell after two weeks but it wasn't because of the action.

 

The Seven may be different for some reason. My only point is that, in my experience, the TP100 action is a different approach to hammer action that requires some adaptation.

[jimkost2002]

How was the weight/transport/setup/breakdown experience? Watching some of the vids, it seems quite manageable. Curious what your take was on that.

 

Also - what other boards use the TP100 keybed? My most recent weighted action board was the FA08 - and I really liked that action.

 

Weight/Transport/Breakdown

 

Weight/Transportweight is well balanced and transport is easily manageable for short distances with built in handle. For longer trips, its easiy transported with a medium light duty hand truck or Rock n Rolla cart.

 

Breakdown and setup if youve set up a Rhodes, you will be familiar with this. If not, its easy enough that a child could do it.

 

Other boards that use TP 100- too many to list all, but some include, Nord Electro HP, Kurzweil Artis, one of the Dexibells, S7??? not sure which, but I know its the one they have at Sam Ash on 34st NYC (Which I tried and hated) and i think the latest Stage 76 changed over to a TP 100, but not sure about it!

 

[Adan]

Like others, I do hate playing clav on weighted keys, but you can't blame the Seven for not being both weighted and unweighted. Clav on the Mojo61 is a pleasure. So, for that matter, is the Rhodes sound -- surprisingly playable and engaging for being an unweighted keyboard.

[jimkost2002]

It will be interesting to hear other reviews of the keybed action. Everyone has different preferences and some may say that they really like the action on the Seven.

 

Yeah, if youre a masochist. Or unless you have an Electro HP

[kenheeter]

My experience with the TP-100 is quite different. I have a SL88 Studio controller and I find it wonderful for controlling EPs and acoustic pianos. If the Seven feels the same ( why wouldn't it? ) then it promises to feel great to me. I'm not sure comparing the Seven directly to a refurbished Rhodes is completely fair. For one thing, I won't gig with an instrument that weighs what a Rhodes weighs, for another the Seven is much more than a Rhodes. It offers Wurlie, CPs, Clavs, DXs, acoustic piano, etc. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these babies.......

[jimkost2002]

Like others, I do hate playing clav on weighted keys, but you can't blame the Seven for not being both weighted and unweighted. Clav on the Mojo61 is a pleasure. So, for that matter, is the Rhodes sound -- surprisingly playable and engaging for being an unweighted keyboard.

 

Adan, your post here is why I am getting a Mojo 61 to replace the Seven.

[Mitch Towne]

Anyone know what Fatar action is in the VMK61?

[Adan]

I was all set to get a Seven, but after pondering it more came to the conclusion that the Mojo61 would be a better fit for my current playing situation. I could play the Mojo61 all day, and if I did, about half those hours would be using the Rhodes sound. Is it possible the Mojo is a better EP keyboard than the Seven? Jim's post at least raises that question.

 

Still very tempted by the Seven but it either it has to make more sense in my playing situation, or I just have to experience a moment of weakness . . . which never happens!

[stoken6]

My experience with the TP-100 is quite different. I have a SL88 Studio controller and I find it wonderful for controlling EPs and acoustic pianos. If the Seven feels the same ( why wouldn't it? ) .......

 

TP100s are not created equal. It's a mystery of the universe.

 

On reflection, I wonder why Crumar didn't go for the quality TP40 action in the Seven? If you're a Rhodes connoisseur, weight is a secondary concern.

 

(But Mike - it already weights 52lb? Yes. Yes it does. In its case. Compare with other boards in a hard case if you must do a comparison).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[jimkost2002]

I've played two TP100 keyboards, the Electro HP and the Dexibell S3, and found that I could rather easily adapt to both. It did take more than a day, but it happened. It feels different than anything else but once my fingers adjusted I was able to have an expressive relationship with the keyboard much like any other weighted keyboard, and I was quite happy with the weight-to-playability quotient.

 

I returned the Dexibell after two weeks but it wasn't because of the action.

 

The Seven may be different for some reason. My only point is that, in my experience, the TP100 action is a different approach to hammer action that requires some adaptation.

 

Adan, Ive owned the Electro 3HP and 4HP and played the Dexibell at Sam Ash for 45-60 minutes putiing it through its paces.

 

The Electro HPs were looser and had a faster key rebound and and a deeper key travel.

The Dexibell had that same stop at the bottom of its keybed as did the Seven,

 

As a professional pianist in a variety of genres, having to play on EVERY quality of acoustic from Upright to Baby Grand to Concert Grand, I can definitively say that the stop at the bottom of the keybed can cause tendonitis, muscle cramps and other physiological problems if you dont alter your technique. Luckily, I know how to adapt from experience, but even with that, Ive had momentary twinges after playing ungrateful pianos becauseI got caught up in the moment and lost my adaptive focus. Thank goodness it was only temporary!

THAT is why Im so militant about this.

I am REALLY not trying to unfairly malign the Seven-as you can read in my review, I have many good things to say about it and mentioned multiple times that I believe in Crumar to the extent that I am getting a Mojo 61 to replace it.

 

I also mentioned that I hope there will be a rev 2 to improve the action like there was for the Mojo dual.

[jimkost2002]

Anyone know what Fatar action is in the VMK61?

 

My recollection is that its the 08L.... I THINK thats the right number designation for their waterfall-organ action, but I will check.

[Adan]

Agreed that the Dexibell S3 has a shallower travel than the Electro HP. If the Seven implements TP100 in the same way as the Dexibell, that wouldn't necessarily put me off from trying it. But I've never had a bout of tendinitis.

[ElmerJFudd]

Hi, Andrea. Ive no doubt you tried others and found the TP/100 was best that could be had for the Sevens design. Waldorf decided the same on the Zarenbourg. Its not my action of choice. There are some that are satisfied with it on some Nord products too - some just like it, some accept it for the weight trade off.

 

Jim, before you send it back. Are there any KCers your friendly with nearby that can pop over to give it a spin?

[MojoGuyPan]

So you're saying that the keybed has short travel in the Seven? I've got the Numa Stage with supposedly the same keybed (TL100) and it seems fine. Are they using a modded 100 with short key travel for some reason?

 

I think the 100 is pretty good. It be a shame if they are using a lame version of it in the Seven. Just wanted to know because maybe you just don't dig the 100. If it's like the Numa Stage, I'd be happy with the Seven.

 

 

[kenheeter]

Hmmm, I wonder what the difference is between the TP 100 that makes some have that 'stop' at the bottom? Maybe there's a mod possible to correct this?

[kenheeter]

I know my SL88 Studio has the three contact action with aftertouch and it feels good to me.

 

[jimkost2002]

Hmmm, I wonder what the difference is between the TP 100 that makes some have that 'stop' at the bottom? Maybe there's a mod possible to correct this?

 

Ken, I am sure there is, which is why all TP100s feel different.