Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Crumar Seven


Recommended Posts

Organic sounding in its large number of smooth dynamic and subtle timbre changes (modeled )

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 832
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The latest demo is simply breathtaking. The Rhodes is amazing. The Rhodes is why I'd be getting this. and if it had a solid AP. But this Rhodes is wonderful. I've got confidence Guido will get the AP into shape. I'm saving up my pennies for this one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with the real thing is that they all sound different and you dont know what youre going to get. Then you have to physically mechanically tweek it to get what you want by adjusting how every key on the action vibrates the tines and where the pickup is located for every tine with screw adjustments. Then theres preamp mods, mods for adding analog fx and controls (like the quadrapuss for example) then you get into tube amp and speaker selection and then you may want to mod those to get more of what youre after. Modeling can do for the electro mechanicals what its done for the guitar world.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[

The Rhodes sounds the same, but the phaser sounds quite different. I typically will use my small stone pedal to get the sound I like - but Guido's vid is spot on. If that is from the same Phaser in the Gemini - I'd love to see his settings!

 

Other than that, the form factor is what excites me most. I do not prefer playing Rhodes/EP from the organ action keybed.

 

Oh - and it looks bad-ass on stage (the Seven)

I wanted to write just the same the day before . I would like to have the settings as well if it is unchanged ( the phaser ) I did some quick comparisons to my Yamaha CP5 , I did prefer the phaser and some other effects on the yamaha , maybe it is just easier to modify those for me than fiddeling about with a touch screen , the presets do sound better for me .But the basic sound is better on the Crumar/ GSI . Especially when the GSI is played from the YAMAHA keyboard. BTW the yamaha is too heavy and bulky for me since I moved houses, the seven would be just managable .Cannot afford it now , I try to find an affordable 76 keys fatar to hook up to the DMC/Gemini

BTW The week before I recorded keyboards for a CD at home only using the gemini . While playing I had the feeling of "same same , but different ", just a bit better than the nord 2 I used for 10 years or more . But when I listened to the tracks later it sounded much , much better . No additional hardware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe better than the real thing?

 

the dog doesn't think so. :laugh:

 

:cool::D

 

A.C.

I've mentioned this before, but I'm fascinated with the way our pets react to our music.

 

When I play my AP, my dog will make an effort to come and "listen". He behaves in a pretty much catatonic way, similar to the dog in this clip. However with digital instruments, he couldn't show less interest.

 

Does this mean the Seven has found the secret sauce to soothe the savage beast?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I try to find an affordable 76 keys fatar to hook up to the DMC/Gemini

.

 

Studiologic SL73 - just been released - same keyboard as Seven, TP100, will work well with Gemini. Its a good mother keyboard with lots of functions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had the VMK61 with the waterfall keyboard years ago. The operating system was very slow and clunky. I think it was quite heavy too. The Studiologic SL 88 and 73 studios are lighter with a better OS - pity they replaced Pitch/Mod wheels with joysticks. The action is OK but I found the keys a little noisy for use at home, so I sold my SL88. But the SL73 with a Gemini would be quite a close match to the Seven - especially if Guido can find a way of adding the Modelled AP. Gone back to using my RD64 which has a much quieter action though some people dont like it. Works great with my Gemini - especially on the Wurly!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I play my AP, my dog will make an effort to come and "listen". He behaves in a pretty much catatonic way, similar to the dog in this clip. However with digital instruments, he couldn't show less interest.

Same with me. One of my dog loves the AP. Always comes into the room when I play it, and either curls up under it or on the couch next to it.

 

He never reacts that way to the Hammond sitting next to it, nor the digital keyboards upstairs. Just the piano.

 

My other dog likes it too...but not as much as the first one.

 

dB

:snax:

 

:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dogs hear well over 20kHz. A real piano in the room probably has lots of content up there, upper harmonics we can't hear. Anything that plays through a speaker has virtually no content there. In a sense, I guess you could say the piano has a built in dog whistle!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just got my Seven last night.

Ill post later tonight with my initial impressions versus my VV

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interested to hear the VV comparison.

 

 

I feel like there is a lot of "contact" noise in all the Rhodes demos so far. Is that adjustable?

 

I'm not sure what the technical name for that "contact" noise is, but it's that high pitched tinkling sound that comes with the hammer strike. Some particular keys on certain of my Rhodes do this more than others, so I'm sure it's showing up here as an intentional effort to model that as part of the original sound. Perhaps it is the sound created by the damper lifting off the tine? But that sound seems very exaggerated to me in the demos so far, so I'm wondering if that can be dialed back?

 

 

Also, can the dynamic range on the Wurlitzer be turned down pretty significantly? I feel like every Wurlitzer clone I've played/heard has a lot more phasing than I get on my actual Wurlitzer. By that I don't mean a "phaser" effect, but the phasing sound that happens when you strike a Wurlitzer very hard. Maybe it's my Wurlitzer, or the fact that I play softly, but when I hear these demos it sounds like someone is pounding on the keys even when they seem to be playing softly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm interested to hear Jim's first review. Even though the acoustic piano sound is not the focus of this intstrument, I am interested to read more about this from a buyer and not a marketer.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, zoooombiex, what you call contact noise is adjustable .....its called metallic in the Seven tine piano editor.

as to the Wurlitzer phasing you mention, on the Seven that is minimized by going below the mid 70s on the Hammer Hardness prarmeter.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok here is my review of the Seven. Interspersed with my comparisons to both my Active VV 73 as well as to various Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer pianos Ive played in various live and studio contexts throughout my career so far.

 

Build Quality and general outward aesthetics:

 

Crumar really hit it out of the park here. The Seven looks like a mini Rhodes with its Tolex base and the Crumar badge on the back, just like a Rhodes or Wurly.

The left side connection panel is also beautifully laid out with reinforced 1/4 connections for L/R, headphones and pedals. USB connection is solid as well.

Also a very sturdy rocker power switch and a coffee connector power cord. Yay, internal power supply! On the RH side, you have an accessories compartment with a thumbscrew locked door. Nice.

 

On power up, you're greeted by illuminated clear plastic rotary pots and one Bank and eight instrument buttons. The Bank button has 4 banks, one preset, three user.

The clear plastic pots are: Volume, Reverb, two EQ pots that function differently with a press first is simple Bass and Treble, second is Mid and Sweepable Frequency. Oh, the pots function when you press them, differently for a Short (Immediate) and Long (100 milliseconds) press.

 

To wrap this section, GREAT build quality and aesthetics! Top notch!

 

Now, to the sounds. I am going to deal with the Rhodes (Tine), Wurly(Reed) and Clav ONLY for the following reason:

 

I hate the Electric Grand like Mitch Towne hates Combo Organs so that's a non issue for me.I played the originals when they first came out and they were awful then. We only used them because we HAD to. Don't care about FM or other digital EPs either. Cant stand them also and have never had to use them after I stopped using DX7s

 

If you know other Crumar instruments, especially the Mojo61, you know that the Rhodes, Wurly and Clav are at the top of all electromechanical emulations, surpassing Nord by far and having only Yamaha and Kurzweil (Forte, Weiser and Purgatory Creek) as real rivals in hardware. Pianoteq is Crumars only true rival in the Electromechanical realm besides these competitors.

 

Now there are a couple of factors that need to be taken into account here:

 

1) The intrinsic quailty and character of Crumars emulations.

2) How these emulations stack up next to the original instruments.

 

First, as to the intrinsic nature. Crumar has done INCREDIBLE work here. There is a great, satisfying quality to all phases of the sound attack, decay, sustain and release in all three of these instruments and they are editable to a great degree.

 

Heres where the failings start to show up.

 

First of all, the Rhodes sound is like that semi-narrow tight high offset from the pickup mid period Chick sound, not SUPER narrow, like 1975 RTF but very close. You can tame that narrow-ness some what in the editor by adjusting the Pickup Offset parameter. Theres also a weird bell like model starting on C sharp on the last top full octave that I couldnt elimate by tapering the metallic parameter.

Anyone who has even spent a cursory amount of time on a REAL Rhodes knowz that bell-like attack doesn't appear out of nowhere, but it becomes more organically apparrent as you go above middle C.

Second, as good as Crumar's emulation is, you just dont get that true BLOOM that you hear on a REAL Rhodes or that I heard on my VV. Crumar gets damn close, closer than just about anybody, but..... THAT Is the difference. You still miss the vibrating tine or reed under your finger.

 

I havent discussed the action of the Seven yet, so I might as well not put if off any longer.

 

This is the real failing, the Achilles Heel of the Seven.

 

They key travel stops about halfway down, like there's an after touch strip.

The only other keyboard I felt this kind of stop on was the Arturia Keylab 88...followed by the old Roland A-90.

 

Really, really awkward and almost unplayable. I DID get somewhat used to it after a few hours and some mental and physical gymnastics, but DAMN, Im really disappointed, especially after sitting at my VV and playing that buttery smooth action! Also, it was almost like one of the horrible, un-maintained Rhodes everyone complains about and unfairly judges Rhodes pianos by if they don't know any better....

 

The Wurly has the traditional A-C compass. All above and. below keys are silent.

 

Again, Clav is great sounding and the best emuation availabl, but awkward AF with this action.

 

All FX are GREAT especially delays and phaser.

----------

But that action, man....ugh, ugh, ugh ..... really one of the worst ever

Maybe if they do a rev 2 it'll be worth getting.

 

As to how the Crumar Wurly stacks up to the original:

Very honorably.

Its closest to a 140B (mid 60s transistor amp) or a 200. You can get some 145B schmutz with a dash of the AMP/DRIVE knob. Like the Rhodes it acquits itself honorably till you get to the decay transient of the sound, THEN you know its an emuation, along with the lack of a vibrating tine/reed underneath your finger or in the cabinet of the instrument.

 

So, to recap.

 

Crumar has done an admirable job here, but fallen short in a crucial areathe action.

 

Maybe theyd have done better with a TP 40. I know the one in the Forte KILLS the TP 100 in the Seven. But maybe they tweaked it? Because I dont remeber ANY Electro HP that Ive played or owned being this difficult. Or maybe Nord tweaked THEIR TP 100s?

 

But, I'm sending this back for a Mojo 61-that's my utility non-clone electromechanical board from here on.

 

One more thing: My tests were done with the VV and the Seven running though a Motion Sound KP-500s and a Mackie 1202VLZ 4 alternating with a pair of AKG 712s

 

 

.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maybe theyll get it right with rev 2, like the Mojo Dual.

meh to the AP, played it for 20 seconds and moved to the EPs and Clav

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very useful info, Jim. I'm also not a fan of the TP/100, I don't know what exactly makes it particularly awful on the Arturia or the Seven (if it's the AT strip, hard to say without taking it apart), but I'm not surprised you didn't go for it.

 

Do you have MIDI on your VV Electric Piano?

 

Also, can you share some actions that you've played that you feel would be a better match for the sounds in the Seven?

 

Roland A-88 has the Ivory Feel G (this is the one that Spectrasonics used in all their Keyscape demos). I find the drop on this action shallow for acoustic piano playing, but it might be a better match for EPs. My MkI's action is terrible, btw.

Studio Logic SL73 or 88 TP/100LR (this does have an after touch strip)

Studio Logic SL88 Grand TP/40Wood (also has after touch strip)

Arturia Keylab 88 (as you mentioned this is also a TP/100 with aftertouch)

Doepfer LMK4+, LMK2+, PK88 TP/40GH (with aftertouch)

 

As a side note...

The Kurzweil Forte and Forte 7 are both equipped with the TP/40L and aftertouch.

 

If able to pair with just the right controller, I'd personally be more inclined to look at the Gemini for these sounds than the Seven (as awesome as it looks, the build quality as you've eluded to, and the real time interface controls). We all know the TP/100 is a weight/price choice that a lot of developers are stuck with.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...