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#2917351 - 03/25/18 08:08 PM Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire.
desertbluesman Offline
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Wifey has Call Of The Midwife on, so listening to music with headphones on is the modality of the evening (If I wanna stay in the living room). One of my very favorite guitar solo tunes is Crossroads by The Cream on the Wheels Of Fire album. This was Clapton, Bruce, and Baker at their very best.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qogsVUEnjw
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#2917363 - 03/25/18 09:11 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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My Wife is watching the Call of the Midwife too right now DBM! I can't thank you enough for the Clapton video escape LOL! I really enjoyed a ton of their stuff. The Best of Cream was one of my favorite albums! thu
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#2917391 - 03/26/18 04:28 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Quite often, when some newer member of this forum would start a "favorite solo" thread, Clapton's "Crossroads" solo would be at the top of most lists. Or make every list regardless.

But, in trying to do the math based on both your timeline and my time zone, both my wife and I were watching the British movie of the Titanic disaster, "A Night To Remember" on TCM last night. Never did see that "Midwife" show. Like the whole "Wheels Of Fire" LP, and too, like the side with "Train Time" and "Toad", Baker's big drum solo.
Whitefang
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#2917412 - 03/26/18 07:24 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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The Midwife show was on PBS last night (not TCM). I don't know the time zones for sure but on my computer it shows the time of 7:02am for my Happy Birthday post this morning which is real time here. Your post on this thread shows 4:28am. I think you are 2 hours ahead of my time so were you up and posting around 4:30 or 6:30 this morning? I think DBM's Arizona time is the same as California time right now...

Speaking of time and Clapton's The Best of Cream album...the whole album was filled with great songs so I would have to post 10 YT videos to cover them all. It did include Crossroads along with:

Sunshine of Your Love, Badge, White Room, SWLABR, Born Under a Bad Sign, Spoonful, Tales of Brave Ulysees, Strange Brew and I Feel Free...

This was a 1969 release album when I was just out of High School and just as I was getting drafted. I think Clapton's time with Cream was the most important time for me...One of the All-time best power trios with powerful originals that have stood the test of time! cool


Edited by Larryz (03/26/18 07:29 AM)
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#2917419 - 03/26/18 07:50 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
Delta Offline
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Actually, there's 2 solos in that song, the second being the barn burner. Another one of my favorite Clapton solos is in the live version of Sitting On Top the World on the Goodbye album.
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#2917582 - 03/27/18 03:43 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
The Midwife show was on PBS last night (not TCM). I don't know the time zones for sure but on my computer it shows the time of 7:02am for my Happy Birthday post this morning which is real time here. Your post on this thread shows 4:28am. I think you are 2 hours ahead of my time so were you up and posting around 4:30 or 6:30 this morning? I think DBM's Arizona time is the same as California time right now...

Speaking of time and Clapton's The Best of Cream album...the whole album was filled with great songs so I would have to post 10 YT videos to cover them all. It did include Crossroads along with:

Sunshine of Your Love, Badge, White Room, SWLABR, Born Under a Bad Sign, Spoonful, Tales of Brave Ulysees, Strange Brew and I Feel Free...

This was a 1969 release album when I was just out of High School and just as I was getting drafted. I think Clapton's time with Cream was the most important time for me...One of the All-time best power trios with powerful originals that have stood the test of time! cool


Yeah, this and the other forum show PST time zone timestamp. So, 6:30am is about right. That IS about the time I do most of my "online time". wink At least here in MI, as we're in the EST zone.

And I never claimed that the midwife show was on TCM, just that it was the channel we were watching that night.

I never had the "Best Of Cream" LP, as I usually don't bother with "Best Of" or "Greatest Hits" LPs. They usually leave something out or put in something I don't really care for. Or something else---On the "Greatest Hits" LP of AEROSMITH is a version of "Sweet Emotion" not heard either ever on the radio or found on the "Toys In The Attic" LP.

And the "Best Of Cream" LP is missing : "Take It Back", "We're Going Wrong". " Sitting On Top Of The World", "Passing The Time", "As You Said", and "Deserted Cities Of The Heart", some of my favorite Cream tunes. wink
Whitefang
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#2917618 - 03/27/18 07:17 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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@ Fang, DBM and I were talking about the Midwife show on PBS that our wives were watching. You probably missed a lot of other shows besides the one we were talking about, that were not on TCM. My wife got a kick out of both DBM and I having to tune them out at the same time, on the same show, while I was responding to DBM's post.

I really did have a limited income back in those High School days having bought a car, having to pay my own insurance, pay for my Karate lessons, pay for dancing and movie dates, beer, cigarettes, etc. I had a few bucks now and then to buy albums with and I did buy Greatest Hits albums as there was less filler on them and every song was a hit. I'm sure I heard most of the songs that were played on the radio that the artists (to include Cream) did. I couldn't afford to buy every Cream, Elvis, Donovan, Orbison, Ventures, CCR, Beatles, Beach Boys, etc., album. I did have quite a few by some artists/groups...I didn't care for 45 singles. We also had our own custom 4 track tapes made from our albums and borrowed some from each other to play in our cars. cool


Edited by Larryz (03/27/18 07:21 AM)
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#2917773 - 03/28/18 04:33 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I thought I had "copy and pasted" my reply from the other forum in response to this post here too, but I guess not. anyway....

Sure. I gave up buying 45s by the time I was 15 or so, and never really bought much beer before I was 21, so what money didn't go to 25 cent packs of cigarettes and 10 cent cups of coffee went towards saving for LPs and occasional movie tickets. Then later, the admission price for the Grande Ballroom. wink

And yeah, sure. I got the bit about you both having the same "tune out" situation. grin
Whitefang
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#2917832 - 03/28/18 10:16 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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And, don't forget that gallon of gas costing the same as a 25 cent pack of cigarettes. We could cruise to the beach and back on a dollars worth in my surfing days! cool
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#2917926 - 03/29/18 03:41 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Oh, sure. We can sit around here all day sounding like old farts chasing kids off the lawn and waxing nostalgic about the "old days" grin when not only did gas cost a quarter a gallon, but for that quarter a kid would RUN out to your car, pump the gas FOR you, and also clean the windsheild and check the oil and tire air pressure. cool

But, ENOUGH of that "rocking chair" talk! We could go off in other directions......

Like bringing up which LPs from then, to any of us, STILL hold up after all those years. Some might agree with what others bring up, and some might feel like, "no, it doesn't", so that could get interesting.
Whitefang
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#2917979 - 03/29/18 07:46 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I don't know, I kind of like the good old days talk. Gas went up 5 times to $1.25 a gallon and LP's stayed at $3.95. You still had to wash the windshield, check the oil and tire pressure. Funny, those jobs just went away a decade later and kids were out of a job. Oregon just changed their archaic laws just this last year which allows people to pump their own gas...I would try and stay on topic and bring up The Best of Cream again, guess I'm stuck in a loop...and now that pot is legal, and would go great with Cream, I'm not even interested in getting high and listening to it LOL! puff
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#2918157 - 03/30/18 03:53 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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laugh

Sure. It's been quite a while since I've listened to that or many another LP while "under the influence", at least any OTHER influence other than nostalgia and a long love for the music. crazy

Heh....the last vinyl LP I bought new was back in '86, Steve Winwood's "Back In The High Life" which at the time was released in both vinyl AND compact disc, and the vinyl was priced lower( and money was tight) so vinyl it was! wink Still have that LP somewhere 'round here....

And while cheaper WAS more than $3.95. smile
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#2918185 - 03/30/18 07:47 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Speaking of Steve Winwood and the good old days, it's hard to believe Eric Clapton is turning 73 this morning! The last vinyl albums I bought were 3 or 4 by the Stray Cats. We had a used record store almost next door to my buds mom and pop guitar shop. Two of my favorite haunts on the weekends. The Stray Cats were young dudes full of tattoos with very cool new album covers! Their music was like a 50's revival in the style of Elvis. Sparse drums, Stand Up Bass and Brian Setzer. Great music and great albums that gave me faith in music again. That record store had anything you could ask for and the guy running it could walk you up to any album you could name in boxes holding thousands upon thousands of LP's! cool


Edited by Larryz (03/30/18 07:47 AM)
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#2918277 - 03/31/18 04:22 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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The Stray Cats always struck me as a "novelty" act that actually DID put out some good music. I too, thought them a great respite from the manufactured "cool" of most of what was presented on Mtv at the time, and too, was always impressed by Setzer's playing and tight grip on the true Rock-a-Billy vibe.

But remember, they came out when vinyl WAS the only practical medium available. And 'round here too, was a good used record shop, but eventually, all used vinyl had to be searched for in thrift shops and yard sales. Hell, even the used CD places dried up quickly.
Whitefang
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#2918293 - 03/31/18 06:55 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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And then there is Blockbuster and all the VHS and DVD movie rentals that went out of business...Before that, we had custom 4 track 8 track and cassette stores that would make custom tapes for our cars that all went out of business. The Stray Cats came out on Vinyl but CD's were also coming out at the time. I had both of their albums so I could play it on the plane with my Sony Walkman and earphones! I remember that conversion period as everyone was having to buy into the new technology. Now we have MP3's, ear buds, streaming, etc...what's next? cool


Edited by Larryz (03/31/18 06:55 AM)
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#2918374 - 03/31/18 02:37 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Don't forget.....

'bout the same time that CDs were gaining widespread use( and before the advent of CD-R) was the attempted DAT( digital audio tape) that despite being able to program play and player "read-out" display, came and went quickly. It was a much more expensive format than CD. When I was doing wedding photography, there was one DJ that used it, but he used a mix of DAT and CD as available material was severely limited in the format.
Whitefang
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#2918415 - 03/31/18 08:39 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I really didn't know much about DAT. As you say it came and went quickly. Betamax video came and went too and lost out to VHS recorders. Now VHS is a thing of the past... cool
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#2918453 - 04/01/18 05:17 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I still kind of laugh about how home video went from, in the case of movies like "The Godfather" and "Ben Hur", using TWO cassettes to hold those entire movies, to being able to put ALL of either movie on ONE DVD disc. And that who knows, someday(if not already) people might be able to get either put entirely on something the size of a digital camera's MEMORY CARD! grin And music too, stored on such a medium. Imagine, the Beatles' "White Album" entirely on something the size of your THUMBNAIL! For those of us not into storing MP3 info on an iPod device, such a thing IS revolutionary. That a record "album" has gone from something requiring multiple acetate platters to a 12" vinyl disc, to a 3" plastic compact disc to then something that comes with a "choking hazard" warning is much for a mind to process. grin
Whitefang
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#2918510 - 04/01/18 10:34 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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DAT was intended to be to cassette what CD was to the LP, i.e. a better sounding consumer format. For a variety of reasons, including restraining orders brought about by the RIAA, it never took off as a consumer format. BUT it became the de facto studio mixdown format for over a decade. A complete failure as intended, a huge success in the pro industry.
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#2918544 - 04/01/18 12:17 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
Delta Offline
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Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I really didn't know much about DAT. As you say it came and went quickly. Betamax video came and went too and lost out to VHS recorders. Now VHS is a thing of the past... cool


Beta became the format for television stations however for at least 10 years.
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#2918554 - 04/01/18 01:04 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Delta]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I really didn't know much about DAT. As you say it came and went quickly. Betamax video came and went too and lost out to VHS recorders. Now VHS is a thing of the past... cool


Beta became the format for television stations however for at least 10 years.


Because it was visibly superior. Sony developed an Alpha product, didn't like it much & went back to the drawing board & came up with the much better Beta video process. Their competitors wanted to license the technology, but Sony wanted to keep it to themselves. So they sold the Alpha video format to Sansui, Samsung, Toshiba, Panasonic, et al. That group renamed it VHS & made it the video standard, even though it was clearly a vastly inferior product. But broadcasters picked up Beta & used that for years as the pro portable format.
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#2918619 - 04/01/18 05:32 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Sounds like DAT and Beta both had some pro usage demand... cool
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#2918700 - 04/02/18 05:16 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I wouldn't say that in regard to DAT, but BETA did get used a lot, especially in news reporting and other television applications. But unlike BETA was to VHS video recording, DAT was NOT superior to the compact disc, but hugely superior to Cassette TAPE, even the chromium stuff, but for less money per player and pre-recorded unit in DAT, and not much more expensive than cassette tape at the time, the compact disc made marketing DAT difficult as far as market share.
Whitefang
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#2918709 - 04/02/18 06:07 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
Fred_C Offline
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I have always been a Clapton fan. The first time I ever heard his "woman tone" I practically jumped out of my chair. What a beautiful guitar tone!

I can recall buying a copy of the first Cream LP in 1968. I think the title of the album was Fresh Cream, but I'm not certain of that and it's too early in the morning to do a Google search to find out. There was a song on the album entitled "I Feel Free". I think it was on the guitar solo of that tune that I first heard EC's "woman tone". The tone knocked me out!
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#2918723 - 04/02/18 08:38 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
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+1 Brother Fred!



cool
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#2918739 - 04/02/18 10:07 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I wouldn't say that in regard to DAT, but BETA did get used a lot, especially in news reporting and other television applications. But unlike BETA was to VHS video recording, DAT was NOT superior to the compact disc, but hugely superior to Cassette TAPE, even the chromium stuff, but for less money per player and pre-recorded unit in DAT, and not much more expensive than cassette tape at the time, the compact disc made marketing DAT difficult as far as market share.
Whitefang


DAT & CD are 16bit, so noise figures are identical for both. However, DAT was a recordable format at a time when a CD recorder, when they initially came into being a half dozen years after DAT, cost upwards of $20,000 & a CD blank was $30. Also, DAT could record at 48k, which theoretically gives it a bit more high frequency extension, in a range which I've never been able to detect, but some people swore they could hear. It was a transitional technology, between analog tape & computer based DAW recording, and every studio, from garage project studios up to the highest end mega-budget complexes, had DAT machines.
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#2918744 - 04/02/18 10:19 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Fred_C]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Fred_C
I have always been a Clapton fan. The first time I ever heard his "woman tone" I practically jumped out of my chair. What a beautiful guitar tone!
I can recall buying a copy of the first Cream LP in 1968. I think the title of the album was Fresh Cream, but I'm not certain of that and it's too early in the morning to do a Google search to find out. There was a song on the album entitled "I Feel Free". I think it was on the guitar solo of that tune that I first heard EC's "woman tone". The tone knocked me out!


Yup. It changed what a lot of us guitar fans thought was possible on the guitar. Clapton's reputation preceded him, (the "Clapton is God" graffiti in London was legendary), & when this album came out it confirmed the rumors that this guy was at the top of his (or anybody's) game. It was also a time when British recording engineers really began to redefine how a record sounded. American recordings were cleaner, but the Brits, using much more arcane circuitry, came up with a very desirable, sensuous kind of distortion. I wore out the grooves on Fresh Cream, as well as the followup Disraeli Gears.
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#2918782 - 04/02/18 01:02 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Scott Fraser]
desertbluesman Offline
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For me back in the late 60's it was; The Beatles, The Jimi Hendrix Experience, and The Cream, those were my 3 favorite bands from those years, and to be truthful, those three groups are still at the top of my all time favorites list.

I bought all of the Cream's studio and live albums up until Goodbye Cream. I wore out several copies each, of the 4 albums; Fresh Cream, Disraeli Gears, Wheels Of Fire, and Goodbye Cream.
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#2918897 - 04/03/18 04:06 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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As I recall, "Fresh Cream", their 1st, came out in late '67 but not many of us here heard of anybody in the band before, but such a fuss about the band was made on "underground" FM rock stations and the promotions in record stores(remember them?) that many guys bought it to see what the fuss WAS about and came away forever changed. THEN Clapton's U.S. fame grew, and THEN Derahm records re-released the John Mayall bluesbreakers LP with Eric Clapton (since his U.S. fame got big) and he's been legend ever since.

But at that time, and since many of us ( who could afford to) would buy albums based on the cover "art", by the time "Fresh Cream" came out several of us in a particular "circle" in late '67 were already big into The Mothers Of Invention and their "Freak Out" LP (which we also discovered was more than a year old at the time! wink ) So, in answer to DBM, at the time the Mothers, Beatles and Hendrix were the "big three" for some of us, with Cream pushing it's way in easily.
Whitefang
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#2919008 - 04/03/18 02:54 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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I still have the double Heavy Cream album that I bought in 72 that was released for the North American market by Atco. It was available from 72 to 76 and re-released for a short time in 83. It has about 2/3rds of all the studio recordings from Fresh to Goodbye and all of the classic ones.
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#2919096 - 04/04/18 03:41 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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Wow, DELTA;

Forgot about that one. But remember it now. A buddy of mine had it too. Thinking about it, I'd say that if I were to put together a Cream "Best Of" compilation album, the tracks I'd pick would be the same. cool
Whitefang
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#2919560 - 04/06/18 03:42 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
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And so, after all this discussion about it, I did recently put my CD copy of the LP on and CRANKED IT UP for the "live" disc. cool

Bothered my wife a bit, but she did like "Traintime", "Toad" and "Crossroads". but wasn't much into "Spoonful". And, as a "captive audience" I think she took it all very well. But DID say, "Wait until I'm at dialysis before you do THAT kind of shit again!" wink
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/06/18 03:43 AM)
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#2919632 - 04/06/18 09:23 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
And so, after all this discussion about it, I did recently put my CD copy of the LP on and CRANKED IT UP for the "live" disc. cool

Bothered my wife a bit, but she did like "Traintime", "Toad" and "Crossroads". but wasn't much into "Spoonful". And, as a "captive audience" I think she took it all very well. But DID say, "Wait until I'm at dialysis before you do THAT kind of shit again!" wink
Whitefang


cop
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If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2919649 - 04/06/18 10:05 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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I wait till the wifey is gone before cranking it up a bit LOL! cool
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#2919822 - 04/07/18 04:56 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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In some cases, it depends on what it IS.

For instance, my wife wouldn't complain about how high I crank up either the MANILOW or KENNY LOGGINS, but the Dylan or Hendrix would incite complaint. wink

But then, it'll be five or six BLUE MOONS before I EVER put any Manilow on the box! grin
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/07/18 04:58 AM)
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#2919879 - 04/07/18 09:37 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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My wife will have to wait until I'm gone before even putting on Manilow (Schhhch! I don't think I have any of his CD's for her to put on!). I will give him credit for being a good song writer though. Kenny Loggins is best when paired with Jim Messina and I can crank them up...Dylan, I like to play his CD's at a normal volume level and the wife doesn't mind his stuff. Cream has to be cranked! cool
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#2919978 - 04/08/18 03:50 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Well, my wife, who was a teenager in the early Rock'n'Roll days, (10 years my senior, remember...) at least has a more open mind musically than my ex had, and whose favorite band at the time we split was MEN AT WORK, and who never DID really like YES, ELP or ELO or also Zeppelin, and too HATED when I'd put on and crank up MAHAVISHNU. wink So I really can't complain. And since she doesn't really complain when I play and turn up MY favorite tunes, I feel it's only fair that I don't complain in those rare times SHE puts on something SHE likes and turns it up. smile
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#2920008 - 04/08/18 07:57 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I haven't heard my wife put on anything except some background music on one of the dish channels for a very long time (i.e. decades). Last thing I remember her putting on was a Billy Joel CD... cool
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#2920157 - 04/09/18 04:54 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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idea
Come to think of it, my wife hasn't put on anything for a long time. Lately( and for several years) if she wanted to hear anything, she'd ask ME to put it on for her. And, the LAST thing she asked for was our recording of BEETHOVEN'S 9th symphony by Leonard Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic. cool Followed by "Four Dances from RODEO" by Aaron Copeland and recorded by the DSO with Antal Dorati conducting. wink
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#2920213 - 04/09/18 07:56 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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CCR, Steppenwolf and Cream have to be played at higher volumes so like I said, I have to wait till she goes shopping to put them on! crazy
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#2921035 - 04/12/18 10:26 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Delta]
d Offline
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Been away from this forum for a bit so bear w/ me while I back things up a bit.

Clapton himself has made it clear that his work w/Cream was less than stellar in his opinion.
The live "Crossroads" on WOF he himself cited as a case where the band was so loud & lacking interplay that he got lost & played an entire solo section w/ the beat turned around, which he only discovered auditing the recording later.

I point out that, while that band didn't lack value, most ppl who cite them as EC's best work do so b/c they were young fans & that's where their listening concepts were shaped.
There may be some who actually think that's Clapton's best work but that seriously undercuts their critical listening reps.
His playing iin the 21st C is far more nuanced & expressive than his earlier work, good as some of that was.

Of course that's gonna get me stick from those who think "all opinions are equally valid" but, that, too, is an indicator of lack of discernment.
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#2921055 - 04/12/18 11:25 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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I think of Eric's best work was while he was with Cream. It's true that it was a fan based opinion from growing up while my listening concepts were being shaped. But, I don't believe it undercuts my critical listening rep LOL! So that my "stick" (not that I believe all opinions are valid)...There's lot's of musical crap out there that people like, that I for one can't stand! poke

Here are a couple of Albert Hall interviews that show how nervous Eric was about re-creating Cream for the fans. Much of the music Cream put out 37 years before the concert was improvised on stage and in the studio. The performances had the beginning and endings down, with certain cues on where to take the music but it was mostly improvised. It would be difficult to go back and re-create all of that material. Eric loved the boys and still does and in 2005 was open to doing it again in America...here's the two interviews by those that were there:





Eric's interviews can change as years go by, but I know he thought a lot of what was important to the music he and Ginger and Jack created (much of it on the fly). Since I love improvisation and agree with Ginger that Eric was a jazz player and just didn't know it, what he did with Cream was a beginning for me as to what I like...valid opinion or not. +1 his later playing is just as good or better, but I preferred the trio. cool


Edited by Larryz (04/12/18 11:32 AM)
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#2921082 - 04/12/18 01:09 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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The reason I liked Wheels Of Fire and especially Crossroads is because of the improvisational abilities of those three outstanding musicians. Back in those days nothing was set, it was just a general outline laid out by the three for each tune, and with the differing attitudes of all three men it made for some very interesting changes.

I have played in improv bands and I have played in rehearsed bands, for me the improv bands had that fire of discovery as the tunes unfolded right on the spot and you had to be quick enough on the uptake to flow with the changes that came unexpectedly. Magic is what I called it back then. Conversely once a tune is rehearsed up to the "T", it became boring to me, and the band became boring to me. When everything was staged to exactness the magic became mundane.
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#2921167 - 04/13/18 04:21 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Eric's interviews can change as years go by, but I know he thought a lot of what was important to the music he and Ginger and Jack created (much of it on the fly). Since I love improvisation and agree with Ginger that Eric was a jazz player and just didn't know it, what he did with Cream was a beginning for me as to what I like...valid opinion or not. +1 his later playing is just as good or better, but I preferred the trio. cool

It's only an invalid opinion to those who feel ANY opinion dissimilar to THEIRS is "invalid". wink

And I'd add that as I see it, Eric Clapton's "best" work wasn't necessarily the work he did while with Cream, but maybe the work of his you LIKE best. wink I've seen this sort of thing in other forums concerning different things. Like in one forum, someone claiming; "_______ was so-and-so's best movie!" and the like. Others may think it was the person's worst movie, but the original poster LIKED that particular movie the "best", so in their eyes, it became their "best" movie.

And who really knows.....somebody out there might think that the work Eric did with The YARDBIRDS was his "best" work! wink
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#2921199 - 04/13/18 07:29 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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"I think of Eric's best work was while he was with Cream." If you read this 1st line of my post Fang, I think you'll see that it's what I think...Anyone is free to have a different opinion.

I played an open mic last night and had a pro bass player and a drum box player backing me up. They backed up all acts that took the stage and they were great! It was like a country fried Cream trio LOL! My point is that it's easy to sing lyrics and play chords and the bass and drums can fill in without ever having played with you before. Eric was nervous about going into Albert Hall in 2005 as he had to recreate the improvisational work he did 37 years earlier. I think he too, found a new appreciation for the guitar leads he had done with Cream, as he was about to be tested by his fans...but that's just my opinion.
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#2921285 - 04/13/18 01:22 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Clapton may in fact be more nuanced, & certainly polished, in his 50s & 60s, but I will lobby for his less polished, but definitely wilder & more primal, playing exhibited during his 20s. The rough edges are filled with humanity. For the same reasons that I've always favored the first Zeppelin album, with all its slightly off ensemble playing, betraying young & talented players who hadn't yet learned to intuitively read each others' timing, I still favor many of the young Clapton's records. Sometimes a young player struggling to find his/her voice can excite in ways that the older, wiser artist who is in complete control doesn't fully excite. Fortunately, we don't have to decide which 'Eric Clapton' we prefer, or think is the better artist. They are all available to us to enjoy. Sometimes I want to hear the polish, sometimes I want to hear the abandon.
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#2921326 - 04/13/18 07:18 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Scott Fraser]
Delta Offline
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Very well said Scott. I feel the same way about so many other artists also. I could make a list but I won't. There's something to be said about young, raw natural talent. Another thing to consider is the progression of technology to what we're at now vs. back in the day so to speak. I often hear people say that some of the new guitarists are so good, but they have so many technological tools to work with now and not a lot of originality. I've always been an Eric Clapton fan and I think he lost a little bit of his soul over the years and became more of a singer/guitar player where the guitar work was secondary. The 2005 Cream concert was an epithany in that he still was able to pull off some of those old soulful chops.
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#2921334 - 04/13/18 07:40 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Delta]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delta
The 2005 Cream concert was an epithany in that he still was able to pull off some of those old soulful chops.


Sometimes lightning does strike twice.
Though I wish he had been playing his Fool SG for that gig, or the 335.
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#2921365 - 04/14/18 04:35 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
"I think of Eric's best work was while he was with Cream." If you read this 1st line of my post Fang, I think you'll see that it's what I think...Anyone is free to have a different opinion.


shocked
WHOA DERE, Calhoun!!

I'm WITH ya on all that! cool

Remember.....it wasn't ME who gave any dispersion's about anyone else's opinions. I was simply stating that YOU may think it's Erics "best" work because it's the work of his you LIKE the best, and not necessarily his "best" work, but that's OK too, since the only VALID opposing opinion on that would be ERIC'S. wink I would only go so far( and play it safe) by saying ANY of his post YARDBIRD work is his best. smirk
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#2921397 - 04/14/18 07:34 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: Larryz
"I think of Eric's best work was while he was with Cream." If you read this 1st line of my post Fang, I think you'll see that it's what I think...Anyone is free to have a different opinion.


shocked
Remember.....it wasn't ME who gave any dispersion's about anyone else's opinions. Whitefang


Ummm... I think you meant "aspersions" rather than "dispersions".
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#2921408 - 04/14/18 08:43 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
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Thanks Brother Fred, that (Ummm... I think you meant "aspersions" rather than "dispersions"). that post reminds me of this line:


"Yes, allusions. Not illusions. Allusions..." the character of Dale Harding insisted during a tense therapy session in the iconic movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975).

Milos Forman, the director of one of my favorite movies just passed away at the age of 86. It was iconic and ironic that this line just came to my mind this morning while reading your post...

@ Fang, I'm not getting carried away, just pointing out that we agree on everyone knowing what they like best for any particular entertainer or musician. I think Scott said it best, in that there is still more to like when it comes to Clapton: ("Fortunately, we don't have to decide which 'Eric Clapton' we prefer, or think is the better artist. They are all available to us to enjoy. Sometimes I want to hear the polish, sometimes I want to hear the abandon.")... cool



Edited by Larryz (04/14/18 08:54 AM)
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#2921416 - 04/14/18 10:09 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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People can of course like what they like but to cut past the blather, while I was a fan of Cream myself & still find value in much of their catalog, I long past outgrew the idea that they were a coherent improvising live band.
More often they simply played at the same time w/little true interplay of the sort you can hear between, for example Hendrix & Mitch Mitchell.
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#2921430 - 04/14/18 11:50 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Fred_C]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Ummm... I think you meant "aspersions" rather than "dispersions".


wink
Right you are, Fred. And I humbly and gratefully thank you for the correction. It can only serve to help prevent further dispersions of any future mistaken aspersions. freak

@Larry: Although I love both the novel AND the movie "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest", as a music lover, I more preferred Milos Foreman's achievement of AMADEUS. wink And I'll throw in a special RIP for such a talented craftsman.
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#2921773 - 04/16/18 03:41 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
bbqbob Offline
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In my opinion, we would not have the legend of Eric Clapton without his work in Cream. The seeds of the legend were planted when he was in the Yardbirds and that seed grew with his brief stay with John Mayall. With Mayall's Blues Breakers, he established himself as one of the best electric blues/rock guitarists to ever pick up a guitar. He was innovative and technically dazzling and a trend setter tone wise with his choice and manipulation of the Les Paul Standard and Marshall amp.
With Cream he continued to innovate. Pushed by the brilliant bass and drum work of Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker they fused the blues, rock, psychedelia and Jazz. They were one of the first to introduce lengthy jazz influenced jams to rock music. As happens sometimes when improvising, while brilliant most of the time in the hands of a skilled musician, it can sometimes run off the rails. Sometimes a guitarist can improvise themselves into a corner and have to find his/her way out. This happened to Clapton sometimes; nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Sure there were drugs involved and some self indulgence on the part of all three members of Cream but I think Clapton's work with Cream were his most innovative, exciting and influential; musically and tone wise. Crossroads, Sunshine of Your Love, White Room and Tales of Brave Ulysses have been essential touchstones for guitarists for decades. I can't imagine my record/CD collection without Cream in it.

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#2921780 - 04/16/18 04:02 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: bbqbob]
desertbluesman Offline
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I have probably told this story to you folks in this or the other forum, my buddy had front row seats at the Spectrum in Philly for the Cream's goodbye concert, and he could not make the concert, and he offered me his tickets for free, but I was just coming off of a bummer acid trip that day (The day before the concert) I simply did not want to go out among people while I was still trippin, so I declined and he gave the tickets to another friend, the next day, the day of the concert, I had changed my mind, but the tickets were gone. So much for that missed opportunity. They were and still are, in my memory, one of my all time favorite groups.
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#2921847 - 04/17/18 04:20 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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I'll have to go with bbqbob up there. Not many here in the U.S. of A. really knew who Eric Clapton WAS before Cream hit it big. I'll freely and humbly admit it. And Eric was a large part( some would say the LARGEST) of that success. And as for Cream being his "best" work....

That is sort of a personal thing. I might go along with that as I personally feel it was the work of his I "liked best". Or at least, better than much of his work "post-Cream". For instance----

I never really cared much for the songs, "I Shot The Sheriff", "Lay Down Sally", "Cocaine", "Wonderful Tonight" (especially that one). Hell, I didn't even like "LAYLA". EITHER version. But that's me.

Never WAS a "low hanging fruit" kind of guy. wink
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#2921883 - 04/17/18 08:09 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I pretty have pretty much enjoyed all of Clapton's music and guitar work over the years (to include those "low hanging fruit" songs). His work and time with Cream was the most memorable for me, probably because it was what I listened to while growing up... cool
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#2921960 - 04/17/18 02:24 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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The Cream days were for me Clapton's most interesting work. I can't say it is his best. "Best" is an opinion. Some folks might just like the cleanliness and production of his later works.

I appreciate all of what he has done over the years. My favorite is of course his Cream days. I like the raw improv character of those efforts.
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#2921965 - 04/17/18 02:39 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: desertbluesman]
Scott Fraser Offline
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I think they played pissed off at a higher creative level than Grateful Dead achieved playing stoned, & I find Cream a more engaging jam band as a result.
Although I usually prefer single coil tones myself, I'm more into Clapton's Gibson tone, whether on his LP, 335, Firebird, or SG. I think humbuckers define his signature tone more than what he gets from Strats.
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#2921971 - 04/17/18 03:11 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Scott Fraser]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
The Cream days were for me Clapton's most interesting work. I can't say it is his best. "Best" is an opinion. Some folks might just like the cleanliness and production of his later works.

I appreciate all of what he has done over the years. My favorite is of course his Cream days. I like the raw improv character of those efforts.


As for me, I find great similarities between EC's work at diff stages, so production quality hardly matters (except what might be his nadir in the late 20th C, where the productions were prolly most polished). What I prefer abt his later work is that it seems more personal than his early work, which as oft as not was a melange of licks garnered from the 3 Ks, etc.
There are actually pix of him in studio during recording of Disraeli Gears cueing up Albert King trax (look for this book: Disraeli Gears Cream by John A. Platt).
Even "Layla"'s main riff is an altered Albert lick...although devised by EC or DA...?

More pertinently, I think, if we use the terms accurately, both "most interesting" & "best" (or "better") might be more clearly definable than "favorite", which is definitely a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
I think they played pissed off at a higher creative level than Grateful Dead achieved playing stoned, & I find Cream a more engaging jam band as a result.
Although I usually prefer single coil tones myself, I'm more into Clapton's Gibson tone, whether on his LP, 335, Firebird, or SG. I think humbuckers define his signature tone more than what he gets from Strats.

That's definitely true, I like some GD material but they never seemed particularly spirited or excited (Garcia got his back up over airbody worried abt him endangering their cash cow)...still I think Cream were more interesting in the studio than live.

Just for kicks, my fave 2 Cream trax...

The orig idea was to combine blues & jazz.
Is this track the source of "3rd Stone from the Sun"'s circular melody ?


It's straight 4/4 but wants y' to think otherwise.

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#2922034 - 04/18/18 04:42 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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You gotta wonder why they turned it into more of an instrumental.



And I think that "3rd Stone" idea is too close a call. wink
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#2922211 - 04/18/18 04:27 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Re "Squirrelly Cat", one wouldn't wonder if one dug what Cream did by tightening up the riff & emphasizing it's spinning nature.
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#2922405 - 04/19/18 01:50 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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laugh
Heh;heh---

"Spinning". You tickle me sometimes.

But I know what you're trying to say. And in that vein, I wonder why, in also some discussion of "Fresh Cream" tracks, this one was overlooked---


Whitefang
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#2922457 - 04/20/18 03:29 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, well this was quickly covered in '67 by a local "D" band SRC( Scot Richard Case) and was heard by most of us 'round here on AM radio( it was the "B" side of an intended single) before we'd ever heard of Cream. wink

Yeah....the "good old days" wink


Whitefang
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#2922550 - 04/20/18 12:15 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Quote:
...But I know what you're trying to say...

I didn't try to say, I said...&[#who's never get it], no y don't.
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#2925768 - 05/07/18 03:04 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: d]
d Offline
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From the FWIW pile here's a clip that provides some of the info I referred to above:

Chk the area of 12:30~14:13 & specifically the section 12:50~13:50
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#2925812 - 05/07/18 10:29 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Lots of good info and cuts on the video D...Playing in front of those Marshall stacks had to be ear shattering and I'm glad the boys still had their hearing after the final tour. I wonder if they wore ear plugs under their hair? The part about Eric and George Harrison co-writing/performing Badge, kind of got me to thinking about the Beatles again. I think Eric could have added a lot of cool leads if the Fab 4 had become the Fab 5. Anyway, it was a fun walk down memory lane. I could tell JT's tribute band had the utmost respect for Cream. I know Wheels of Fire is JT's and everyone else's favorite album, but I still like Best of Cream the best...just some of my random thoughts. cool
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#2925845 - 05/08/18 04:48 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Like I stated, most "Best of" LPs usually pass over a lot of good tracks, at least in some individual's opinions, as a "favorite" of one guy might not be so well liked by another.

And "Best Of Cream" left out several tracks by the band that I liked a lot. But it is a good start. cool
Whitefang
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I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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#2925877 - 05/08/18 07:00 AM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11359
Loc: Northern California
You would have to have more space on the record to cover more of Creams hits (like their double album). Best of Cream covers enough for me for a quick sit down. It doesn't mean that they didn't do a lot of great songs that wouldn't fit on the Best of Cream 33. cool
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#2927553 - 05/17/18 02:42 PM Re: Crossroads By The Cream on Wheels Of Fire. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 10970
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Say, DONOVAN'S recent birthday reminded me of another thing that bugs me about some "Best of" or "Greatest hits" LPs....

That "Donovan's Greatest Hits" LP ( and now CD) that I have DOESN'T contain the ORIGINAL recordings of "Catch The Wind" and "Colours". But rather the two "remakes" from the later '60's.

Sure, I know those were on different labels(Hickory, not Epic), but the two "remakes" weren't ever released as singles and never did become"hits" on their own accord.

Luckily, I had those two on a compilation CD my daughter made for me some years ago, so it wound up OK. wink
Whitefang
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I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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