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#2915814 - 03/18/18 09:05 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Jazz+]
Josh Paxton Offline
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I love Cleary's approach to boogie woogie. He does this fast broken 2-against-3 pattern between his two hands that I wanted to figure out forever. Once I finally did, I never played it again because it's so distinctly him, and any knowledgeable listener would just think, "Oh, he stole that from Cleary."

I too was never good at playing a repeating left hand pattern forever, because I don't have the patience for it. I can do maybe two choruses before my brain says, "All right, that's enough of that, do something else now." But I admire the guys who can do it and make it work.
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#2915987 - 03/19/18 01:39 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Josh Paxton]
David Loving Offline
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Part of the art is changing the left hand several times.
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#2916002 - 03/19/18 02:22 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: David Loving]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: David Loving
Part of the art is changing the left hand several times.


Absolutely true. And if can turn that into a principle, I think I will.
I was taking an early counterpoint lesson, ages ago, from a teacher who I still miss.
He could write circles around me, with contrapuntal lines. And no, I never reached the fugue stage, just 2 or 3 voices .. pretty elementary .

Anyways ( is that a word?) I wrote some line over the cantus, which took me about 30 minutes. And in less than five minutes, he corrected my line with something obviously superior.
But I will never forget what he wrote on the lesson sheet of music.
He spelled out in large letters M O N O T O N O U S.
That stuck with me till this day. And monotony applies not only to counterpoint
but to just about any aspect of any kind of music. Even if it is drone music, there has to be something changing. Another anecdote.. I once had the best sounding B3 of my lifetime... and I bypassed the Leslie and played it thru a mixer into a speaker..
And if you just held a single note going thru that mixer it was like tprture after about 5 seconds. The amp did not vary the tone the way the Leslie did.

It is almost always, theme and variation. You have an idea, and you slightly alter it.
Same with Boogie bass, and Boogie right hand, (unless you have three hands, it's possible ) .
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#2916004 - 03/19/18 02:25 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Josh Paxton]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
I love Cleary's approach to boogie woogie. He does this fast broken 2-against-3 pattern between his two hands that I wanted to figure out forever. Once I finally did, I never played it again because it's so distinctly him, and any knowledgeable listener would just think, "Oh, he stole that from Cleary."

I too was never good at playing a repeating left hand pattern forever, because I don't have the patience for it. I can do maybe two choruses before my brain says, "All right, that's enough of that, do something else now." But I admire the guys who can do it and make it work.


Yup, Jon Cleary was brought to my attention, compliments of Keyboard Corner.. he is deep into New Orleans styles.
But question... why would you not borrow from him?
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#2916005 - 03/19/18 02:27 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: David Loving]
PianoMan51 Offline
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I was lucky enough to learn a few boogie woogie tunes from my first piano teacher. And my first piece played in public was a boogie woogie tune for my third grade class. As a result it's always been in my bag of tricks. So a couple of ideas from me:

1). A little boogie woogie is great. Too much, for modern ears, is obnoxious. If I break into a boogie pattern for four bars it's a novelty that gets heads to turn. Sixteen bars, and played well, is going to turn most of those heads back to where they were. The days when the BW player was the most popular guy are well gone.

2). But this is good for a student, because you don't need to learn those twenty different patterns. Learn one, or two. My goodie bag has three.

3). I think of boogie woogie as house party music of the 30s and 40s. Piano solo where the LH is the rhythm section. That makes it difficult to play with a band. If you are going to throw in a four-bar BW phrase then talk this through with your bass player first. He needs to know that when you lay down BW he needs to back off and just emphasis the tonic. You don't want him trying to double your left hand and you don't want him to continue playing a walking line. He also needs to know that you're not trying to stomp on his stuff, it's just for a little while, just like he may play high licks occasionally. Listen to each other with respect.

4). The last part is the hardest to explain. Boogie woogie is swing music, and real swing is a razor's balance between rock or latin straight eights and a corny swing where the rhythm is in straight triplets. I recommend starting out your LH in straight eights and putting the swing rhythms in your right. Listen for the piano LH in this well know swing piece:


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#2916120 - 03/20/18 02:25 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Josh Paxton Offline
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Yup, Jon Cleary was brought to my attention, compliments of Keyboard Corner.. he is deep into New Orleans styles.
But question... why would you not borrow from him?


There are things I have borrowed from him, but that specific thing is very distinctly him and no one else. Not only do I know it, but a good number of people who come to hear me know it too. And I suppose it's partly because I know him, and it would feel disrespectful somehow.
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#2916241 - 03/20/18 10:27 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Josh Paxton]
David Loving Offline
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Dr. John always said it's just a big dipper pot, and we take what we like.
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#2916246 - 03/20/18 10:46 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Josh Paxton]
MaskOfInsects Offline
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Yup, Jon Cleary was brought to my attention, compliments of Keyboard Corner.. he is deep into New Orleans styles.
But question... why would you not borrow from him?


There are things I have borrowed from him, but that specific thing is very distinctly him and no one else. Not only do I know it, but a good number of people who come to hear me know it too. And I suppose it's partly because I know him, and it would feel disrespectful somehow.


FWIW, given everything you've said--how specific the style is to him, and how you went to school on it because of this--I think it would be deeply respectful to pay homage to him by quoting or adapting it, particularly for those who know that you're doing it. He might even like that his style influenced the next generation.

All just MHO.
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#2916321 - 03/20/18 04:09 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: MaskOfInsects]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Yeah Man, Borrow from Mr Cleary. Why would he graciously make a video showing his prowess with the many styles he has so smoothly absorbed, if not for us to absorb? Each style one learns is a notch in your holster. Something to be proud of. And something to be perhaps altered creatively
But to do that you have to play it a lot
So play it... be a master of it.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (03/20/18 04:10 PM)
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#2916410 - 03/21/18 01:48 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: 120]
Josh Paxton Offline
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Registered: 06/16/10
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Originally Posted By: 0120
Usenet is still very much alive and well and I still access it. Probably the longest running newsgroup and file service in the history of the net.


While I'm thrilled to be reminded that every stupid thing I posted on rec.music.phish when I was 20 is still out there, I suspect this completely off-topic post from a brand new user is spam.
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#2916485 - 03/21/18 09:21 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Josh Paxton]
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Yup, Jon Cleary was brought to my attention, compliments of Keyboard Corner.. he is deep into New Orleans styles.
But question... why would you not borrow from him?


There are things I have borrowed from him, but that specific thing is very distinctly him and no one else. Not only do I know it, but a good number of people who come to hear me know it too. And I suppose it's partly because I know him, and it would feel disrespectful somehow.
I hear ya. You have to go with what you're comfortable with. Maybe at some point playing it out will feel right. Until then, it's part of the knowledge bank. thu
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#2916487 - 03/21/18 09:30 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
I once had the best sounding B3 of my lifetime... and I bypassed the Leslie and played it thru a mixer into a speaker..
And if you just held a single note going thru that mixer it was like torture after about 5 seconds. The amp did not vary the tone the way the Leslie did.


Pretty effective writing there IMRT. It had me squirming in my chair, just thinking about listening to it.
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#2916510 - 03/21/18 10:49 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Wastrel]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Originally Posted By: Wastrel
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
I once had the best sounding B3 of my lifetime... and I bypassed the Leslie and played it thru a mixer into a speaker..
And if you just held a single note going thru that mixer it was like torture after about 5 seconds. The amp did not vary the tone the way the Leslie did.


Pretty effective writing there IMRT. It had me squirming in my chair, just thinking about listening to it.


Assuming you are serious.. ( I am not accustomed to compliments on my writing style- kind of have an inferiority thing with Writing ) Thank you.

Funny thing, my example of B3 in a speaker was merely an analogy to the old idea of theme and variation.
Whether it be tone or vibrato or pitch variation as in changing notes, or rhythmically or timbre or dynamics ... that idea my teacher taught me so powerfully when he wrote "MONOTONOUS" or
MONO TONE one tone. Like the dullest person in the world..
That is what we want to avoid. The opposite of monotone is variety. Is the idea.
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#2916581 - 03/21/18 04:21 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Wastrel Offline
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee

Assuming you are serious.. ( I am not accustomed to compliments on my writing style- kind of have an inferiority thing with Writing ) Thank you.

No snark or smart-assedness intended. I could actually 'hear' what you were describing. And it was excruciating. Also a pretty good metaphor for anything that is static, unvarying, monotonous, and BORING. sleep
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#2916588 - 03/21/18 04:51 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Wastrel]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Originally Posted By: Wastrel
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee

Assuming you are serious.. ( I am not accustomed to compliments on my writing style- kind of have an inferiority thing with Writing ) Thank you.

No snark or smart-assedness intended. I could actually 'hear' what you were describing. And it was excruciating. Also a pretty good metaphor for anything that is static, unvarying, monotonous, and BORING. sleep


I did not feel that you were messing with me, not at all.
I am just not much of a writer. But I hope to get better.

The speaker was a homemade JBL or two in a cab. The amp was a Crown. Cold and cutting. I had heard Brian Auger played through amps... but not this kind, right?

Thanks again.


.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (03/21/18 04:53 PM)
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#2916763 - 03/22/18 01:13 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Jazz+]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I didn't notice at first that this is a new topic vs. comments on the old one.

There, I listed a couple of references, but don't have them handy at the moment. There's a "by style" keyboard technique series from a few years back, that includes a Boogie Woogie book that might be a good start. LOTS in that series, and I've been impressed.

Otherwise, YouTube videos are going to be essential regardless, for listening as well as watching hand techniques.
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#2916919 - 03/23/18 08:43 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Mark Schmieder]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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" There's a "by style" keyboard technique series from a few years back"
I could not find it.. but maybe when you bump into it, paste it here?
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#2916946 - 03/23/18 10:21 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
montunoman Offline
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Tim Richards "Improvising Blues Piano" is good blues method book.

https://www.amazon.com/Improvising-Blues-Piano-Tim-Richards/dp/0946535973

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#2917024 - 03/23/18 06:00 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Jazz+]
David Loving Offline
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Check out Little Richard's left hand: Little Richard
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#2917224 - 03/25/18 03:51 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: I-missRichardTee]
keyguy Offline
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#2917294 - 03/25/18 01:37 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: Moonglow]
DOhm Offline
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Originally Posted By: Moonglow




Dang! standing up too. Amazing job!


Edited by Dave Ohm (03/25/18 01:38 PM)
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#2932502 - 06/12/18 11:50 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: DOhm]
dazzjazz Offline
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ANyone got a PDF of the Sharon Pease books "Boogie Woogie Piano Styles"?
Amazon is out of stock
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#2932591 - 06/13/18 11:15 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: davedoerfler]
area51recording Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser

Seriously what I'm suggesting is that it might be helpful to train yourself to make that left hand thing VERY much a second-nature, auto-pilot kind of thing.


JA had said the same thing about playing left hand bass on Hammond organ in another thread not too long ago.

Makes sense, if the left hand is on auto pilot, then we can just think about our right hand.


That might have been the LHB thread I started.....I noticed a strange thing lately. If I practice a LH pattern while doing other stuff (watching TV, reading this forum, etc) not only does the pattern I'm working on get more solid, it seems to make other LH stuff I HAVEN'T been practicing more together as well....as if the act of practicing anything in this way kind of disengages the LH from the connection it has with the right hand mentally and helps it to function more autonomously....

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#2935466 - 06/30/18 05:51 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: area51recording]
dazzjazz Offline
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I managed to buy a vintage copy of Vol 1 online, but cannot find volume 2 anywhere - can anyone help out please?
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#2935478 - 06/30/18 10:29 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: dazzjazz]
niacin Offline
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I found enough to work with in the Dr John books but do have some other transcriptions. Here's OP nailing it to the wall. He keeps the LH pattern up for 2 choruses at the front and back ends but otherwise mixes it up - he has the trio with him. He gets away with it at least in part because it's absolutely flying, about 250 bpm, I seem to remember reading that it's the fastest boogie ever recorded. I do have a transcription somewhere.

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#2935480 - 06/30/18 10:37 PM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: area51recording]
niacin Offline
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Originally Posted By: area51recording
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser

Seriously what I'm suggesting is that it might be helpful to train yourself to make that left hand thing VERY much a second-nature, auto-pilot kind of thing.


JA had said the same thing about playing left hand bass on Hammond organ in another thread not too long ago.

Makes sense, if the left hand is on auto pilot, then we can just think about our right hand.


That might have been the LHB thread I started.....I noticed a strange thing lately. If I practice a LH pattern while doing other stuff (watching TV, reading this forum, etc) not only does the pattern I'm working on get more solid, it seems to make other LH stuff I HAVEN'T been practicing more together as well....as if the act of practicing anything in this way kind of disengages the LH from the connection it has with the right hand mentally and helps it to function more autonomously....


Thanks for the tip. A couple of years ago I had a weird sort of out-of-body experience. I'm playing a pop covers gig, it's about 2 in the morning, I'm very tired, not entirely well, I'm playing left hand bass, and we're coming up to the bridge and I can't remember what the changes are, and while I'm thinking about it my left hand just rolled right on through and I just sort of watched my hand play the bass line. I'd played that song enough times that I guess it was burned into muscle memory. I do do a lot of left hand bass playing, mainly Hammond, but will have to try the practise tip, the funk is always the challenging stuff and I really need my left hand to be on auto-pilot much of the time.
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#2935719 - 07/02/18 08:30 AM Re: Boogie Woogie instruction.. method? [Re: niacin]
hatricklov Offline
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Posts: 265
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Dr. K (Brendan Kavanagh) has a ton of videos on YouTube.

Dr. K Boogie Woogie Sheet Music

I wouldn't mind picking up one of his package deals on his website as a birthday or Christmas present to myself! laugh PianoBanana
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