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#2914562 - 03/12/18 04:57 PM Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11980
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I travel pretty much every week for work (not music related) and had everything down to a science. Whenever possible, direct flights, and always carry-on. That mitigates a lot of risk on my part and minimizes may wasted time at the airport on each end. At security, my routine was always (first of all fly untucked, belt in my suitcase, stuff my coat in the outer pouch for easy access when I land) 2 bins: one for the laptop, one for shoes, toiletries, keys, wallet, cell phone. Well now everything larger than a cell phone has to come out. Power supply is no big deal, can go with the laptop, but now I have to pull out the iPad as well, which means a 3rd bin. A bit too cumbersome throug security with 3 bins, a laptop bag, and a suitcase. So I started leaving the iPad at home.

For a while I had thought about bringing out a very small controller and getting some software so I can practice in the hotel room. But given that the iPad is out of the picture, a controller would be yet another bin item, and I'm not going to start checking luggage, looks like that will never happen.

Anybody else running into this?
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2914568 - 03/12/18 06:01 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1762
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
where to you fly - Dom or Int'l? I travel a bit, not every week. i got global entry 2+ yrs ago mainly for the TSA Pre-check. nothing comes out of the bag (domestic flights, if you're going Int'l - forget it). I just have to put my phone IN the bag.

Shoes stay on too so I don't ponder my travel day shoe selection based on the ease to take off/put on while standing in a TSA line.

Btw, I've never pulled out power supplies or been asked to - just my laptop on non Precheck flights. and I only pull out ipad on international flights too.
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#2914572 - 03/12/18 06:32 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: MotiDave]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
I'm surprised I don't set off alarms every time I go through security with my laptop bag since it has my Rolls in-ears mixer (steel case), extra sustain pedal (steel), tons 'o wires, two SSDs, 3 USB hubs, MOTU midi interface, Kork NanoKontrol, 2 spare AC adapters, and did I say wires? I was told that wires will get you flagged more than anything else. I bring several USB cables, several USB extension cables, audio cables (including a 25 foot extension for my wired in-ears!), and 2 midi cables. Oh, almost forgot - the laptop stays in the bag too. I take nothing out since I'm always TSA Pre - on account of getting a Global Entry card. You say you fly weekly and you haven't sprung for TSA Pre? $85 for five years is a total no brainer. Do it now! Leave the shoes & belt on too.

Having said all this – yes my backpack does occasionally get inspected and it is a drag. I've had it emptied into a tray while the TSA person swabs & tests it. But as I said, it's rare – much rarer than I would expect given what's in there! I would say it happens maybe 3x/year. I look at it like this: I could put a lot of that stuff in my checked baggage, but those pieces are x-rayed & inspected somewhere in the bowels of the terminal. If my luggage was flagged for inspection there, who's to say the TSA person would carefully put everything back? When the bag is with me I get to watch the person inspect and make sure everything gets back in correctly (I know this doesn't apply to you since you said you don't check luggage). If I were you I would definitely get TSA Pre and not worry about it. Not to mention the lines can sometimes be a lot shorter than where the hoi polloi go. You said you fly weekly, do you have frequent flyer status? On United, even if you don't have TSA Pre, there is the "Premier" line.

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#2914574 - 03/12/18 06:34 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
Michael W Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/03/08
Posts: 629
Loc: Chicago, IL
I had an Akai LPK25 for many years, but alas, it finally busted.

I recently got this 25-key full-size controller for travel (I took it to Maui for ten days last month). I can indeed zip the carry-on bag shut, provided I have the keyboard at an angle.

It's just a bit toooo big for this bag, but I make it work.

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Yamaha Montage 8, Virus TI Polar, Moog LP, Yamaha MOX6
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#2914576 - 03/12/18 06:44 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
JazzPiano88 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/16/15
Posts: 390
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
I travel pretty much every week for work (not music related) and had everything down to a science. Whenever possible, direct flights, and always carry-on. That mitigates a lot of risk on my part and minimizes may wasted time at the airport on each end. At security, my routine was always (first of all fly untucked, belt in my suitcase, stuff my coat in the outer pouch for easy access when I land) 2 bins: one for the laptop, one for shoes, toiletries, keys, wallet, cell phone. Well now everything larger than a cell phone has to come out. Power supply is no big deal, can go with the laptop, but now I have to pull out the iPad as well, which means a 3rd bin. A bit too cumbersome throug security with 3 bins, a laptop bag, and a suitcase. So I started leaving the iPad at home.

For a while I had thought about bringing out a very small controller and getting some software so I can practice in the hotel room. But given that the iPad is out of the picture, a controller would be yet another bin item, and I'm not going to start checking luggage, looks like that will never happen.

Anybody else running into this?

Can you sign up for TSA Pre?
- no carry on extraction of electronics (laptop stays in)
- no taking off shoes/belt
- metal detector only

At least 10 times quicker than the standard TSA screening.

TSA Pre $85 is small price to pay for the ~50 trips per year.


Edited by JazzPiano88 (03/12/18 07:00 PM)
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#2914578 - 03/12/18 06:51 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: JazzPiano88]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3376
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
LOL, you're obviously a more experienced flyer than I am!

Usually I get to security, take off my belt, put my cell phone and keys in the tray, chase $15 or $20 in change around three pockets, stick my (George Castanza) wallet in the tray just for the hell of it, then wait for the guy with the wand to scan my crotch because I prefer button flys. Then I layout my laptop, iPad, six or eight USB keys and a bunch of cables on top. Takes me 20 minutes to get dressed and repacked.

Last time, they found toothpaste in my carry-on. I thought I was going to be in trouble so I offered to eat it. It turns out I got dumb lucky and picked the biggest size you're allowed (100mL) when I was shopping the night before.
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#2914579 - 03/12/18 06:53 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: JazzPiano88]
waygetter Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 581
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Co-sign TSA Pre, faster easier security process
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#2914581 - 03/12/18 07:17 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: waygetter]
davedoerfler Offline
KCFF League Champion 2017
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 7373
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: waygetter
Co-sign TSA Pre, faster easier security process


can't say enough about this, however given as much as Dan travels he must surely know about this. I only fly several times a year but couldn't imagine not being pre approved
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In all seriousness, whatever works for you is absolutely the way to go.
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Quite simply - If you can't play Jump on it, you don't want it.
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#2914602 - 03/13/18 12:56 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: davedoerfler]
Mills Dude Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/02/15
Posts: 106
Loc: New York
Head on over to Flyertalk. It's an amazing resource, even bigger than KC smile

Sometimes I use 3 bins, I don't see how managing 3 or even 4 bins is a problem. The biggest problem is the travelers who insist on putting on shoes and belts right where the bins come out instead of just grabbing their stuff and using the always empty benches just a few yards away.

These days, I only fly out of the US on international long haul from NYC to Hong Kong, 15+ hour flight. So I get to check bags for free. I usually take late night flights at 1 AM from EWR, terminal B. Thankfully the terminal is dead at this time. If theres 3 people at security its a lot. So there's very little advantage to PreCheck in this scenario. Even though I have GE. Also if you're flying J (i.e. Business Class) without PreCheck, many airports have a priority line to jump all the Y (Economy/Cattle class) fliers.

GE (Global Entry) can be a little tougher approval process that PreCheck if you have some prior transgressions on your record. Even with PreCheck theres not guarantee it will show up on your boarding pass, but that's typically an edge case. Also when flying internationally, many carriers don't participate in the program. Many travel credit cards are offering reimbursement for enrollment in PreCheck or GE. Also with the advent of Mobile Passport is a good alternative to GE if you don't want to go through the trouble. Some airports can have bigger lines for GE than for Mobile Passport.

Even though I am a "trusted traveler" with GE and PreCheck, I have received the dreaded SSSS on my boarding pass a few times. When you get this, there is no PreCheck, but you usually get to cut the line and they bring you to the secure area for deeper inspection. Expect everything to be gone through, swabbed, etc.

Many airports don't have dedicated PreCheck lanes or they close earlier than the regular lanes. In that case, you typically get what's called PreCheck-Lite. Typically, you are brought to the front of the security line with other PreCheckers. Shoes can stay on, belts sometimes have to come off, can keep a light jacket on and you are brought through the metal detector instead of the body scanner. Sometimes laptops can stay in the bag. I always ask the staff that scans the boarding pass on what the PreCheck-lite rules are. They seem to change at the whim of the staff.

Even before I had PreCheck, I never take the iPad out into a bin. I've heard about some new rules that any electronics bigger that cellphone need to come out but I haven't experienced this. I do pack whatever liquids in a quart sized baggy. I always leave it in my backpack, never asked to take it out.

I do carry on a travel backpack. After check-in, put all the phones, belt, wallet, glasses in the backpack on the way to security making sure my pants pockets are empty.

For the last few years, used this backpack - Samsonite Xenon 2
It served me well for a few years, not too big. Just recently switched to an eBags flight backpack -- eBags backpack. It's rather big and may be able to fit a 25 mini-keys controller. A lot of pockets to stuff your stuff.


Edited by Mills Dude (03/13/18 12:56 AM)
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#2914606 - 03/13/18 02:37 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Mills Dude]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2993
Loc: Australia
Domestic flights here I try and schedule outside the am/pm commute busy period. 3 bins does the laptop, tablet, phone wallet and loose change. I wear belts and shoes that combined do not trigger the metal detector and am good to go, unless I get randomly selected while repacking from the bins for an explosive swab down.

Side note - failed one of those twice recently flying put of an airport that services a lot of fly in/fly out mining workers. After patting me down they sent me off to board the flight and seperately sent a note to the captain letting him know that he had an explosives positive passenger on board. Go figure.

But that is a stroll in the park compared the mandatory security checks for international travellers into and out of Athens in the late '80's. Full body and baggage search, with carry on and checked baggage then sealed with security stickers so they could easily identify if they were tampered with prior to loading.

The adhesive on those stickers was so good I could not remove them for the remaining life of the bags.
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#2914653 - 03/13/18 08:19 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Markay]
Fusker Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1408
Loc: Raleigh, NC
My flight to and from RDU and EWR last week didn't require any removal of electronics or shoes. I had an iPad and laptop on that flight as well. Think it's going to vary a lot depending upon the equipment at the terminal. I know people get dedicated to "carry on only", but I've never had a checked baggage issue with a direct flight. I really enjoy not going to battle for over head space, so much more relaxing.


Edited by Fusker (03/13/18 08:20 AM)
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#2914656 - 03/13/18 08:32 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Fusker]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1833
Loc: Florida
All the TSA madness means I just try not to fly. Vacations have become driving vacations for the most part, and I luckily don't have to travel for work.

The TSA is pure security theater, and it's a complete (non-funny) joke that we have to submit to their crap.

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#2914658 - 03/13/18 08:35 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Fusker]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
Originally Posted By: Fusker
I know people get dedicated to "carry on only", but I've never had a checked baggage issue with a direct flight. I really enjoy not going to battle for over head space, so much more relaxing.

I take it you weren't advocating putting your laptop or ipad in checked baggage, so you must stow it underneath the seat in front of you? I like that space for my feet. And having FF status means rarely having to do battle for overhead space since we board first (my experience is only with United though).

I know this doesn't apply to your situation but it bears mention: our band checks a lot of stuff. My keyboard controller, SKB laptop case (sans laptop of course), two basses, two guitars, rack with wireless units, merch bag, big bag 'o cables & mics & assorted small stuff, drum trap case with snare, kick pedal & cymbals. During my tenure I've seen the rack with wireless units come off the conveyor belt with the front lid gone and the wirelesses' front panels smashed. My predecessor's Nord was dissassembled a few times by TSA (unscrewed the output board) and they never reassemble - same with the wirelesses, they just shove those back into the rack loose and throw the screws in. These are not common occurences but they do happen. Anything really valuable that can be carried on should be carried on, imo.

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#2914659 - 03/13/18 08:41 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
Fusker Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1408
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Right, not checking those in.

The devices? They are very small. The bag they are in? It is also very small. Plenty of room for my feet!

I'm not trying to convert anyone, just pointing out that checking a bag isn't necessarily evil. Baggage claim is always by the cab/lyft/uber area as well, adds like 5 minutes to the effort on average.
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#2914661 - 03/13/18 08:52 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Fusker]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
Yea for a typical suitcase with clothes & toiletries I wouldn't have an issue checking it. Band gear is another story. Anything fragile, there's some risk. It used to be just from baggage handlers. Now it's handlers and TSA people.

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#2914690 - 03/13/18 11:49 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11980
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I should probably get TSA pre. I never bothered because so many people have it that often the TSA Pre line is longer. In fact we tested it once. One of the guys I was traveling with went through TSA pre and I went normal and was waiting for him on the other side for about 5 min. It's very recent that they started making you pull out anything larger than a cell phone - within the last few weeks. That may be enough to justify getting TSA pre for me. As far as status, I have a hard time because I end up having to split my flights between 3 different carriers because of flight times and locations and all of my flights are relatively short, so it's difficult to really build up many miles with each carrier. International is very rare for me. I went to Canada one week last year but it had been years before that since my last international trip. Most of my flights are from St. Louis to Wichita, OK city, Tulsa, Dallas, Midland/Odessa, Detroit, Denver, and Minneapolis. If it's KC, Memphis, Indianapolis, or Cincinnati, I drive.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2914709 - 03/13/18 01:30 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
Rod S Offline
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Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 3001
Loc: São Paulo, Brasil
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Well now everything larger than a cell phone has to come out.


Is this a new rule? I was in the U.S. just last month, and had a laptop, kindle and ipad, i only took the laptop out and went through without an issue.

I hate putting stuff on the bin. I stuff wallet, cels, keys and change into my carry on bag and off I go.

Down here for local flights it's pretty simple. Only laptop comes out, no shoes, belts, etc.
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#2914710 - 03/13/18 01:31 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Rod S]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11980
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Rod S
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Well now everything larger than a cell phone has to come out.


Is this a new rule? I was in the U.S. just last month, and had a laptop, kindle and ipad, i only took the laptop out and went through without an issue.

I hate putting stuff on the bin. I stuff wallet, cels, keys and change into my carry on bag and off I go.

Down here for local flights it's pretty simple. Only laptop comes out, no shoes, belts, etc.



Just started over the last few weeks.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2914713 - 03/13/18 01:39 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
Now I understand why you haven't gotten pre. I've also seen several instances where the non-pre line was faster. However, not having to take stuff out of the bag, and not having to take off shoes & belt, that's still worth something. First world problems I know. And, as has been mentioned, some airports do "pre-lite", where you still need to take laptops out. I think even Newark's terminal A does that.

When airlines started switching their FF programs to award you based on money spent rather than miles flown, that hurt a lot of people I think. Going for the discounted fares meant it took longer to build status - if you could get there at all. I was Platinum on United one year, but for the past two years I was lucky to make Gold.

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#2914715 - 03/13/18 01:47 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
davedoerfler Offline
KCFF League Champion 2017
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 7373
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
I've also seen several instances where the non-pre line was faster. However, not having to take stuff out of the bag, and not having to take off shoes & belt, that's still worth something.


I was going to post exactly this. Worth a lot to me, not having to fuss which bin my wallet, phone,and passport are in while trying to put on my shoes and my pants are falling down because I dropped my belt.
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In all seriousness, whatever works for you is absolutely the way to go.
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Quite simply - If you can't play Jump on it, you don't want it.
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The Voyager is a Minimoog.
Bob Moog

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#2914740 - 03/13/18 03:33 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: davedoerfler]
DulceLabs.com Offline
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Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 5168
Loc: CLASSIFIED
Try bringing a modular rig through. laugh


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#2914754 - 03/13/18 04:17 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: DulceLabs.com]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
That doesn't look like a USA airport. TSA doesn't like cameras taking pictures of their operations!

If that's you in those pics, you have my condolences!

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#2914770 - 03/13/18 05:23 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11980
Loc: St. Louis, MO
It's also hard to tell sometimes if a change is temporary or permanent. For a couple weeks, they were also saying to take any snacks out of your bags - so like granola bars and stuff had to be removed. Haven't had anybody ask me to do that for about a month now - it only lasted a couple weeks. Maybe there was some sort of threat or something, who knows?

Also sometimes seems to be slight differences between airports. A couple times flying out of St. Louis, they were so busy and backed up that they were telling everybody to just leave everything in their bags (laptops included) and keep your shoes and belts on. That happen to be the same week that returning home, the airport made me pull out snacks. So then I thought the snack thing was just the airport, then the next week flying back out, the St. Louis airport also made me pull out snacks, as did the return flight. Then that was it - no more snack removal requirements since.


Edited by J. Dan (03/13/18 05:26 PM)
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2914776 - 03/13/18 07:09 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
I haven't been non-TSA Pre in a few years but I have never heard of taking snacks out of bags. Just the liquids & gels rule: each container can't be more than 100ml and they all have to fit in a quart-size ziplock.

I guess TSA can just make up whatever rules they want.

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#2915167 - 03/15/18 10:37 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
Bobby Simons Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 235
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Last week I flew Long Island to Tampa and back with a Behringer Eurorack Pro, a volume pedal, sustain, many wires and adapters,MacBook Pro, iPad. . . with the little remaining room stuffed with clothes - all in my carry-on. They opened it for a closer look on the departure, opened it and dumped everything into trays for a real close look on the return. Can't say that I blame them, must look potentially dangerous on their xray belt.

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#2915178 - 03/15/18 11:33 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Bobby Simons]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
I bet you were glad that happened in front of you and not where TSA inspects checked luggage.

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#2915215 - 03/15/18 02:53 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Bobby Simons]
RABid Offline
10k Club

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12398
I don't fly a lot, but I see a lot of inconsistencies between airports. My carryon normally has a Windows notebook, a MacBook, two iPads and a Kindle. One airport will want EVERYTHING out of the bag, the next wants the iPads and Kindle left in the bag during screening, and the third allows me to leave everything in the bag. The real issue for me is the checked suitcase. All of the chargers are in the suitcase along with a beatbox of some type. Usually an Elektron device or an Emu Command Station. It never fails that my luggage gets opened and inspected. I cannot blame them. The x-ray is always going to show a big metal cased electronic device with lots and lot of wires.
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#2915243 - 03/15/18 08:28 PM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: RABid]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11980
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Flying out of Wichita today they had signs up "New Rules". As I mentioned, it said all electronics larger than a cell phone come out (and specifically listed iPads and Kindles). It said snacks are not required to come out but are recommended to make the screening process go smoothly. When I got through security, they were giving a guys bag a closer inspection and had his snacks pulled out. I overheard them telling him he should pull them out from now on.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2915285 - 03/16/18 05:49 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: J. Dan]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2692
Loc: NYC area
I googled "new TSA rules" and what I found corroborates your experience. They introduced them at a few airports last year and are expanding them to cover more (or all?) USA airports.

Now might be the time to join TSA Pre - we're exempt.

https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/2017/1...curity-measures

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...m=.45feebe1e6d8

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#2915287 - 03/16/18 06:13 AM Re: Semi OT: electronics in carry-on luggage [Re: Reezekeys]
Bobby Simons Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 235
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Last week for me, the "all electronics larger than a cell phone come out" was in effect in Tampa, but not Long Island. I take this trip once a year, they are always more diligent down there. A couple of years ago I had total knee replacement surgery (both). They don't seem to notice (or care) here, down there my legs get carefully frisked and 'wanded'.
It is what it is.

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