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#2914056 - 03/10/18 01:59 AM Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300?
The Piano Man Offline
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I recently got a Yamaha CP300 and I love it! It may be getting on a bit age-wise but the sound and touch, for me, are brilliant. It will be staying in the home since it is 32.5kg

The built in speakers are a real plus. However, even when turning these off, and listening through headphones or even a very rough and ready Roland KC amp, I am pretty happy with the sound.

So, I am looking for a board which would most closely replicate the sound and touch of the CP300 for gigging purposes. I assume the CP33 would be the closest match? Does anyone know if it shares th same “Grand Piano 1” tone of CP300? It is perfectly bright with loads of attack. Ideal for gigging in my opinion.

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#2914057 - 03/10/18 02:03 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: The Piano Man]
The Piano Man Offline
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I should add that I did try the CP4 and, whilst admiring many aspects of it, I personally did not like it as much in terms of a board for cutting through live. I know I am probably in a monitory with this viewpoint.

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#2914070 - 03/10/18 05:50 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: The Piano Man]
RudyS Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Piano Man
a very rough and ready Roland KC amp, I am pretty happy with the sound.

snax
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#2914076 - 03/10/18 06:42 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: RudyS]
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There is a good chance that the CP300 and CP33 use thee same piano samples. They are from the same era and use the identical text in their manuals to describe the sound, i.e. "AWM Dynamic Stereo Sampling" and "utilizing three-stage dynamic sampling, providing the ability to change tone with the sustain pedal, and adding a subtle, authentic release sound when you lift your fingers from the keys." (Though the CP33 has half the polyphony, 64 vs 128.)
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#2914077 - 03/10/18 06:43 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: RudyS]
drawback Offline
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The OP is after the same sound, I’d agree it’s likely the CP33. But for some reason I’m thinking the P255 might be a good choice.


Edited by drawback (03/10/18 07:01 AM)
Edit Reason: Re-thoughts
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#2914085 - 03/10/18 07:26 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: The Piano Man]
Dave Ferris Offline
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I had the CP300 for a few years and briefly tried a used CP33 because of the schlep factor.. So I had them side by side for a week or so. My recollections were -- the CP33 sounded less full, refined and more harsh to me then the 300. I actually preferred my even older P120 to the CP33.

But I think we have different tonal preferences. wink The first voice in the CP300 was too bright for my ears, so I always used the second voice, the Mellow Grand, even in most Rock contexts.

I like the P255 personally. I played one for two years every week at a Jazz jam session. I might be wrong but for what you're looking for and hearing - and what I'm remembering about the P255 with my 2 years with it - I don't know if it would be bright enough for you.

What about some kind of a Nord ? Not good action compared to any Yamaha DP but the piano sounds can never be accused of not cutting through in a louder rock band mix.

Just to add, I've never hear of the CP4 "not cutting through" - even in rock contexts. There are quite a few variations of the CFX and CF sample. I know there's a Bright CFX or something similar. Maybe try that. Also the CP4's EQ is probably the most flexible - read, it really works - on any DP I've ever owned.

Chuck Leavell went to the CP4 after many years with the CP300. If it didn't "cut through with the Stones, I can't see him switching. wink Also doesn't that Fleetwood Mac lady use one too ? ...among many rockers.


Edited by Dave Ferris (03/10/18 08:36 AM)
Edit Reason: added thought
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#2914089 - 03/10/18 07:47 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
bourniplus Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
what I'm remembering about the P255 with my 2 years with it - I don't know if it would be bright enough for you.

Same here. When I compared it side by side with my P80, even though the P255 sounded more realistic to me and the keyboard felt better, it seemed like the P80 had more of a certain "in your face" quality. I often have the treble slider maxxed out on my P255 in an attempt to make it cut better, in any context. Also, I don't think we know if the OP is looking for built-in speakers.
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#2914091 - 03/10/18 07:52 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: bourniplus]
Jazz+ Offline
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The action and sound of a CP4 is way better than the CP300, imo. It doesn’t have onboard monitors though frown
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#2914095 - 03/10/18 08:11 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Jazz+]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Agree. For me, while I can still play pretty well on the CP300 and certainly don't cringe when I play it, there's NO comparison between the CP4 & CP300.

But I still get how a more rocker type person would prefer the CP300. Speakers aside, it might be a psychological factor because of the beefy build quality on it.

But with regard to the internal speakers and I've posted this before-- I mainly play Jazz but also did quite a few rock gigs with both the CP300 and P120. And rarely, if ever, could I hear the speakers in the band once the bass, drums and guitar kicked in.

I agree about the player connection in having them but the only time I could hear/feel them was either-- solo piano, accompanying a singer with just piano or a duo situation with piano and acoustic bass. Again, whenever the drums kicked in or even the slightest increase in volume- those internal speakers in the CP300/ P120 just disappeared to my ears. I mainly heard my active monitors.

In my rational, I can't see how someone playing at a loud enough volume and who's concerned about the piano "cutting through", ever would hear those internal speakers on any DP. wink idk


Edited by Dave Ferris (03/10/18 01:21 PM)
Edit Reason: that would be psychological not physiological
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#2914098 - 03/10/18 08:34 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Jazz+]
JazzPiano88 Offline
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I acquired the CP4 mainly for exactly what the OP describes -- a lighter weight board to take to gigs while the CP300 stays at home -- along with the fact that it gets raves from the forum. I've been really happy with the CP4.

For me, the CP300 is Pizza, and the CP4 is Tacos smile I go back and forth all the time at home (along with the C7) and love them all.
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#2914099 - 03/10/18 08:45 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
SK Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
In my rational, I can't see how someone playing at a loud enough volume and who's concerned about the piano "cutting through", ever would hear those internal speakers on any DP. wink idk
Hi Dave - not to argue, but just to add... you probably won't hear a keyboard's internal speakers in a band unless you tweak the tone and volume of the internal speakers (as I've always done with my Rolands) to get a balance between their volume and the sound coming from the external amplification. Otherwise I agree, they're pointless when you can't hear them.
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#2914101 - 03/10/18 08:48 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: JazzPiano88]
CEB Offline
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ES-8. Built in speaker system. Not the lightest thing but still a whole lot lighter than a CP300. With the virtual tech and all the tonal controls you can make the the Kawai sonically perform how you want. My Kawais always cut better than my Yamahas after I tweaked them. The Kawai always have balls. I jack with the Yamaha the sound goes wonky easily.

I like the CP4 but it ain't anything like play a CP300. Totally different feel. Probably the body's relaxed state from having carried the CP300 up on a stage. I personally prefer the 4 but it is a different altogether vibe.


Edited by CEB (03/10/18 09:02 AM)
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#2914103 - 03/10/18 09:00 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: SK]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted By: SK
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
In my rational, I can't see how someone playing at a loud enough volume and who's concerned about the piano "cutting through", ever would hear those internal speakers on any DP. wink idk
Hi Dave - not to argue, but just to add... you probably won't hear a keyboard's internal speakers in a band unless you tweak the tone and volume of the internal speakers (as I've always done with my Rolands) to get a balance between their volume and the sound coming from the external amplification. Otherwise I agree, they're pointless when you can't hear them.


Hey Steve, yeah I tried that every time. But even with the piano set on say 75% of max (at 100% the speakers sounded kinda funky tonally and almost distorting) and balanced with the stereo monitors-- the overall volume level wasn't sufficient to be heard with the band. Maybe it's an LA thing, even within the Jazz gigs, they play too friggin' loud ! cry

Hope you both are good. smile


Edited by Dave Ferris (03/10/18 09:06 AM)
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#2914106 - 03/10/18 09:17 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Chuck Leavell went to the CP4 after many years with the CP300. If it didn't "cut through with the Stones, I can't see him switching. wink Also doesn't that Fleetwood Mac lady use one too ? ...among many rockers.


Danny Louis of Gov't Mule now uses a CP4 also.
I like the CFX Rock setting myself. Think Gregg Allman playing "Ain't Wasting Time No More". It's that sound.
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#2914119 - 03/10/18 10:53 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: davedoerfler]
AnotherScott Online   content
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If someone is looking for the GH (CP300) action, besides the CP33 and P255 already mentioned, there's also the CP40, which--since getting the weight down is a big motivation here--has the additional advantage of being the lightest of the bunch.
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#2914142 - 03/10/18 12:53 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: AnotherScott]
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As others have stated, It has to be either:

a) the vibration and presence of the internal speakers

or

b) the 'solid' feel of playing such a huge board

that the OP is after.
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#2914144 - 03/10/18 01:23 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
Mjazz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I had the CP300 for a few years and briefly tried a used CP33 because of the schlep factor.. So I had them side by side for a week or so. My recollections were -- the CP33 sounded less full, refined and more harsh to me then the 300.


+1. I played a CP33 for a few years, mostly Grand Piano 1, and found it quite harsh sounding, and I especially disliked the sound of E5-G5, as I recall ... harsh and thin. Hated landing on those notes.
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#2914147 - 03/10/18 01:56 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Mjazz]
Dave Ferris Offline
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I briefly spoke with Blake Angelos at NAMM and in passing asked if a new DP was in the works to take the place of the CP4. He said not at this time. I just added, it would be nice to have something like the CP300 form factor with the internal speakers. It seems like there might be a home/church market for that type of thing ? No reaction whatsoever from him. laugh

Personally the idea of getting the RD-2000 for home, just for something completely different, is heating up a bit. I haven't bought a keyboard in four years since the CP4 in May of '14. Also I'm going to log some more time on the MP11SE down at Pierre's place. Sure would like those internal speakers for home though.


Edited by Dave Ferris (03/10/18 02:00 PM)
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#2914162 - 03/10/18 03:36 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
JazzPiano88 Offline
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'


Edited by JazzPiano88 (03/11/18 09:47 AM)
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#2914294 - 03/11/18 12:12 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: The Piano Man]
gpiazzi Offline
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I guess it's time for my first post in this forum...

I recently bought a used CP300 to replace a CP33, and since I didn't yet sell the CP33, today I did a side by side comparison (though the boards were on top of each other, really). I connected the CP33 outputs to the CP300 external inputs and CP33 midi out to CP300 midi in. With the right midi settings, I could select the same preset voices on both board from the CP33 panel and listen to both via the CP300 headphone out.

As far as I can tell, they sound the same. The only noticeable difference is the sympathetic resonance effect, which is only available on the CP300 for the Grand Piano 1, Mellow Piano 1 and Rock Piano presets. Grand Piano 1 and Mellow Piano don't have sympathetic resonance on the CP33 (otherwise they're identical), Rock Piano is not available on the CP33, which has a subset of the preset voices from the CP300.

I noticed a slight difference in the actions, which should be the same on both boards (that's the reason why I've chosen a CP300 instead of something more recent). For some reason, the CP33 felt slightly stiffer and more solid. But both needed about 75 g of coins on the key tips to balance the weight of the hammers, so I believe it's just the effect of some random variation between different production batches.
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#2914298 - 03/11/18 12:28 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: gpiazzi]
The Piano Man Offline
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Thanks all!!

Great reading all the responses.

There certainly is something very solid about the CP300. It has a satisfying immediacy that is lacking in many other boards (and I include that feeling with headphones, so this is not exclusively to do with the built in speakers)

Having played top end Nords, Rolands, Kurzweils and Kawais, there is just something about the bright percussive immediacy of the Yamaha that I love. Will see if I can find a CP33 to try or will revisit the CP4 and try some of the other programs suggested.

Thanks again

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#2914308 - 03/11/18 01:22 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: gpiazzi]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted By: gpiazzi
I guess it's time for my first post in this forum...

I recently bought a used CP300 to replace a CP33, and since I didn't yet sell the CP33, today I did a side by side comparison (though the boards were on top of each other, really). I connected the CP33 outputs to the CP300 external inputs and CP33 midi out to CP300 midi in. With the right midi settings, I could select the same preset voices on both board from the CP33 panel and listen to both via the CP300 headphone out.

As far as I can tell, they sound the same. The only noticeable difference is the sympathetic resonance effect, which is only available on the CP300 for the Grand Piano 1, Mellow Piano 1 and Rock Piano presets. Grand Piano 1 and Mellow Piano don't have sympathetic resonance on the CP33 (otherwise they're identical), Rock Piano is not available on the CP33, which has a subset of the preset voices from the CP300.

I noticed a slight difference in the actions, which should be the same on both boards (that's the reason why I've chosen a CP300 instead of something more recent). For some reason, the CP33 felt slightly stiffer and more solid. But both needed about 75 g of coins on the key tips to balance the weight of the hammers, so I believe it's just the effect of some random variation between different production batches.


Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting your thoughts and findings. It's always good to hear another viewpoint. smile

Again, my comparison goes back maybe 8 years now , if not longer. But I usually recall these kind of details fairly well. My test was more based on hooking both up to my Mackie 1202VLZ and EV SXA360 speakers that I was still using at the time and simply going back and forth between the two. I heard a definite sonic difference between the two and like I posted, even included my P120 in the comparison, which I shortly sold thereafter. There was enough of a lack of what I wanted to hear and feel, that I returned to CP33 to its original owner, a friend here in town.

Originally Posted By: The Piano Man
Having played top end Nords, Rolands, Kurzweils and Kawais, there is just something about the bright percussive immediacy of the Yamaha that I love.


I always try everything and I eventually come back to what seems to be home base for me with regard to these DPs. The other ones - while being very good and certainly playable and functional, both on gigs and at home-- just never seem to have that "thing" that makes Yamahas so Jazz friendly for me.
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#2914311 - 03/11/18 01:37 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: JazzPiano88]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: JazzPiano88
'

If you like the overall feel and internal speakers of the CP300 but just think the sound is a little behind the times, I think you can drive a VST or other piano (from a module, another board, whatever), and feed that back into the CP300 to play it through its speakers.
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#2914372 - 03/11/18 08:22 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: AnotherScott]
JazzPiano88 Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: JazzPiano88
'

If you like the overall feel and internal speakers of the CP300 but just think the sound is a little behind the times, I think you can drive a VST or other piano (from a module, another board, whatever), and feed that back into the CP300 to play it through its speakers.

I did that with the CP4. However, the CP4 piano requires a significant EQ adjustment to sound ok through CP300 speakers (as expected). And then the rest of the room fill amplification requires additional compensation.
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#2914383 - 03/11/18 09:52 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: JazzPiano88]
Dave Ferris Offline
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I can't think of another digital keyboard, offhand, that's 12 years old, still in production, somewhat in demand and still fetching almost the original price tag new.

I was listening to some old tracks from a former forum member, 7 notemode/Tom Spruill on the CP300.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU5_G4P94jc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbpvKFP7w5U
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#2914413 - 03/12/18 05:06 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I can't think of another digital keyboard, offhand, that's 12 years old, still in production, somewhat in demand and still fetching almost the original price tag new.

Yeah, its longevity is remarkable. I think the the gold goes to the MicroKorg (2002), with the silver going to the CP300, and the bronze to the SV1 (2009),
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#2914764 - 03/13/18 04:51 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: AnotherScott]
LX88 Offline
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I got a CP 33 and a P120 roughly one year ago, both at ridiculously low prices.

I A/B ed them for a while and wound up keeping the P120.

The P120 sounded a little less " plunky" to me. Thbe external speakers were a factor too. I use it with a small subwoofer and it actually can sound quite impressive.

I also prefer the P 120 Rhodes to what the CP33 had.

Through a pair of Audio Technica M40 headphones the P120 is not bad. That Yamaha attack thing or plunk as I call it is reduced through the M40 headphones.

Also the P120 has a dedicated treble control whereas the CP33 had a 3 position brightness switch.

Anotrher portable that sounds quite a bit like the P 120 is the
P-35. I can get it to sound good through a stereo amp with EQ, using once again the Audio Technica phones. The P-35 also sounds quite a bit like the Motif pianos. I prefered the P-35 to my MOXF that I sold. The bass was much more solid.

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#2914766 - 03/13/18 04:57 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: LX88]
CEB Offline
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FTW! ES-8 baby. Use the Virtual Technician and tone controls to make it sound like a Yamaha if you want.

There is your built in speakers Hoss.


Edited by CEB (03/13/18 04:58 PM)
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#2914813 - 03/14/18 01:26 AM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: CEB]
Dave Ferris Offline
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The ES8 is nice. Good sound coming through the speakers.

Also there's the Roland FP-90 that has the speakers. I preferred the sound and action on the RD2000. But would like to play the FP-90 again in a more quiet environment.

The P120. Never a second's problem till the end when a few keys started sticking. Yamaha replaced the keybed for free and it cost all of $75 shop time to have the new one installed. And in all those years that cheesy plastic PS unit never failed or was stepped on and broke...a miracle. And yes the rhodes recorded really well. I used it on quite a few sessions.

They simply don't make 'em like that anymore. wink
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#2915014 - 03/14/18 06:15 PM Re: Which “portable” 88 is closest to CP300? [Re: Dave Ferris]
LX88 Offline
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Another option for gigging - someone has an MX 88 on Garage Sale for 700 dollars plus shipping.

This is a pretty good price for this board, considering it is a current issue instrument. It has all the basic Motif sounds. I thought it sounded better than the MOXF I sold last year. The action seems nice too.

Back to the P120 suggestion I posted last night. Interestingly the P120 has " Grand Piano 1" that you mentioned on the CP300. Plus GP 2 and GP3 and they all sound pretty good.

I paid 50 bucks for my P120 about a year and a half ago and haven't had any key breaking issues -so far, though the " classic" Yamaha keybed ( P120, CP33, P140 and probably your CP300 etc.etc.) is notorious for breaking keys if you gig them hard.

I would be looking at the P120 or P140 for replicating the CP300. The 300 is basically a little later but I am relatively sure it is a similar sample. Possibly it is a CP33 with speakers. It's of that era.

I have a fondness for the Yamahas from the previous decade. This is when digital piano really became more useful.

Yamaha always did have the bang for the buck. 'specially on the used market.

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