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#2913953 - 03/09/18 10:27 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Ferris]
kenheeter Offline
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Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 222
Hopefully there will be more demos soon.

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#2913955 - 03/09/18 10:29 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: jimkost2002]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Thanks, man...
TP40 would be AWESOME.....

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I agree this is probably TP100 based on the weight in a wood case. (Assuming it must indeed be a Fatar.)

TP100 indeed. Weighs 4 kg less than the TP40.

dB
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#2913956 - 03/09/18 10:30 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Ferris]
Aussie_Chicago Offline
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From the Crumar FB page


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#2913957 - 03/09/18 10:31 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Bryce]
jimkost2002 Offline
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Thanks Dave!
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#2913958 - 03/09/18 10:32 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: U.Honey]
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Originally Posted By: anchovyd
I heard one section where it sounded like AP in the treble but sounded like a CP70 in the bass so I figured it was the CP70 model.

If you're talking about the video on their web page, I think it was the CP at about 4:38 and the AP at about 1:14.

Originally Posted By: E Baxter Put
I am buying this... for sure.

Everything I want for my gigging piano.

My only criticism is the glowing knobs and logo. I prefer less lights.

Why would you not consider an SV-1?

Originally Posted By: U.Honey
My Moxf8 is 32 lb without a case but it turns into a 52 lb monster with (plastic) Gator ATA case.

You can get much lighter soft cases, though.
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#2913963 - 03/09/18 10:35 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: drawback]
drawback Offline
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Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: nickd
User manual now available:
http://www.crumar.it/?a=support&b=36

Huge amounts of detail in here...


After a quick read-through it looks as though there's a very good amount of adjusting one can do with the Acoustic Piano – so I'd sure like to see if it can find its way into a future Mojo61 OS!



CHAPTER 18. SOUNDS: ACOUSTIC GRAND PIANO.
The Crumar Seven also has a physical modeling simulation of an acoustic grand piano. This simulation doesn't point at a specific model,
but is based on a well known structure that is common to some of the most used, also most expensive, concert pianos. It consists of a
total of 243 strings, the first 8 notes (A to E) have only one round-wound string each, next 5 notes (F to A) have two round-wound
strings each, next 7 notes (A# to E) have three round-wound strings each, the remaining 68 notes (F to C) have three plain steel strings
each. The last 17 notes (G# to C) do not have dampers. The soundboard has what's known as the “Duplex Scale” that adds harmonics to
the sound of each single note. Many elements of this structure can be slightly modified to taste. The editing page of the Grand Piano
will look pretty much similar to that of the Electric Baby Grand, since both are basically acoustic pianos and have many elements in
common.

The parameters you find in the EDIT PIANO page are:

HAMMER CUTOFF: Cutoff frequency of the low-pass filter applied to the hammers. Since this is a physical modeling instrument,
we're not talking about a filter applied to the whole sound, but only to a single element of the virtual piano. By increasing this
parameter you'll notice that the attack component will result brighter, even though this brightness is not always added to the
body of the decaying sound.

HAMMER RESONANCE: Resonance amount of the low-pass filter applied to the hammers; will mostly affect bass notes, leaving
the treble notes almost unaltered.

HAMMER OFFSET: This parameter adjusts the horizontal alignment of all hammers in relationship with the strings. In the center
position, all hammers are perfectly aligned; if the position is changed, the whole harmonic content of each note could change in
an unpredictable way. This greatly affects what's known as the “voicing” of a grand piano.

HAMMER WIDTH: Set the size of the virtual hammers. A bigger size results in a fuller sound but will increase the volume and will
also alter the voicing; adjust this parameter in accordance to the previous parameter.

HAMMER BODY: Adjusts the timbre of the hammer noises, by filtering some of the thump caused by the hammers.

STRING DAMPING: Set the amount of damping of all strings, i.e. the loss of higher harmonics during the decay phase.

STRING DETUNING: This parameter adjusts the slight detuning between the strings. In a real grand piano, the three strings of a
note should have the exact same pitch, which however is impossible to obtain so there will always be a slight detuning between
them. This also affects the voicing, adjust it at small steps.

DIRECT SOUND: Adjusts the balance between the sound coming directly from the strings and that coming from the piano
cabinet. A lower value will result in slower loss of amplitude giving the effect of a longer decay, i.e. a nearer sound like putting
your ears directly on the strings; a higher value results in a quicker loss of amplitude, even if the decay time remains unchanged.

RELEASE LENGTH: Adjusts the amount of residual string vibration after each note-off (key is released, damper is off).

HARP HI-PASS: this is an high-pass filter applied to the whole harp, needs to be adjusted in case the voicing tends to give a sound
too resounding.

STRETCH TUNING: Set the amount of stretch tuning. The middle position corresponds to the original tuning table as
recommended by the piano manufacturer.

SYMPATHETIC RESONANCES: Set the amount of sympathetic resonances spread over the whole harp.

KEY NOISE LEVEL: Adjusts the volume of all key noises generated by the hammers.

RELEASE NOISE LEVEL: Adjusts the volume of the noises caused by the dampers muting the strings when a key is released.

PEDAL NOISE LEVEL: Adjusts the volume of the noises generated by the pedals.

FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL: Adjusts the volume of the first harmonic (fundamental) of each note over the rest of the harmonic content.

CABINET PRESENCE: Adjusts the volume of the resonances and reverberations produced inside the piano cabinet.

CABINET TIMBRE: Adjusts the timbre of the cabinet sound, like modifying its structure and materials.

LID POSITION: Adjusts the position of the piano lid. Lower values correspond to lid completely closed; higher values correspond
to a lid completely removed. The center position corresponds to the lid half open.

DYNAMICS: Adjusts the dynamic response, i.e. the ratio between MIDI velocity and note velocity.


Edited by drawback (03/09/18 10:40 AM)
Edit Reason: cleaned up
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#2913965 - 03/09/18 10:38 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Ferris]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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The AP is not good as demonstrated.
Also (to me) no board with a TP-100 should break $1200 - $1.4k max.

On the other hand, far more reasonably priced than that Waldorf Zarenbourg.
Although no internal speaker system.
And the Zarenbourg has a 6 operator FM synth.
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#2913967 - 03/09/18 10:46 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Also (to me) no board with a TP-100 should break $1200 - $1.4k max.
Maybe, but that rule's been broken plenty of times (Kurz Forte SE, numerous Nords).
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#2913971 - 03/09/18 11:05 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
E Baxter Put Offline
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 22
I had an SV1. Personally I hated the looks, and as a live performer, I care about how I look on stage. Also... I thought it sounded fine, but not great. I currently own the Crumar Mojo and I am really impressed with the modeled sounds. They are much closer to sound and feel to my real Wurly, Rhodes, and Clav. It still doesn't fully capture the feel of playing a real electromechanical keyboard, but it's pretty close. Sample based keyboards feel like I'm playing a CD. I think they sound better in a studio than live. I play my Crumar Mojo through a high powered tube guitar amp with 15" speaker, and it sounds great! I use the mojo mostly for keys, and only an occasional organ part. So this will meet my needs. I agree this keyboard isn't for everybody, but for me personally, it is just what I have been wanting.


Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: anchovyd
I heard one section where it sounded like AP in the treble but sounded like a CP70 in the bass so I figured it was the CP70 model.

If you're talking about the video on their web page, I think it was the CP at about 4:38 and the AP at about 1:14.

Originally Posted By: E Baxter Put
I am buying this... for sure.

Everything I want for my gigging piano.

My only criticism is the glowing knobs and logo. I prefer less lights.

Why would you not consider an SV-1?

Originally Posted By: U.Honey
My Moxf8 is 32 lb without a case but it turns into a 52 lb monster with (plastic) Gator ATA case.

You can get much lighter soft cases, though.

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#2913972 - 03/09/18 11:12 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Also (to me) no board with a TP-100 should break $1200 - $1.4k max.
Maybe, but that rule's been broken plenty of times (Kurz Forte SE, numerous Nords).


Sadly, I haven't owned a Kurz since my K1000 I got at 17 years old because of cost vs. action. I'd love a Forte but out of my price range and not interested in the SE at its price point with the TP100. Sort of eyeing the SP6 - seems to be enough of a PC3/Forte SE in there to satisfy. Weight is attractive but skeptical about the action. Price/action has kept me away from Nord entirely on every model they've put out.
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#2913975 - 03/09/18 12:19 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Delaware Dave Offline
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I wonder if this new modeled piano will make its way into the Gemini module
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#2913984 - 03/09/18 01:22 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Al Coda]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 1025
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

Now, if it had a 5-pin DIN MIDI-In too, I`d be able to use my existing 88 weighted keys action,- but unfortunately they forgot that connection. facepalm

A.C.


I agree, but there's always a work-around:

Iconnectivity

I use their original one to merge the MIDI output of my Casio PX5S and my iPad both into the Kronos. Swiss army knife of solutions.

Jerry

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#2913991 - 03/09/18 02:00 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: jerrythek]
ZioGuido Offline
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Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 296
Originally Posted By: jerrythek
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

Now, if it had a 5-pin DIN MIDI-In too, I`d be able to use my existing 88 weighted keys action,- but unfortunately they forgot that connection.


I agree, but there's always a work-around:


We omitted the MIDI IN for a reason. Anyway, you can just use a cheap $10 MIDI-USB cable (interface) like this and get into that USB Type-A port that also accepts "Class Compliant" USB MIDI devices.

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#2913993 - 03/09/18 02:13 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Nadroj]
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Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Now, if it had a 5-pin DIN MIDI-In too, I`d be able to use my existing 88 weighted keys action,- but unfortunately they forgot that connection.

I can't imagine bringing this keyboard to a gig and using it just as a sound module!
If you don't want to use their action, you'd be better off saving a lot of money and travel weight and getting what looks like the more capable (except in the acoustic piano department) Gemini module. At home it might be nice to hook up an alternate action, but then you could probably do that through your computer if need be. Yeah, Standard MIDI In would be nice, but in this case, I don't see too many people missing it, in the context of the board being monotimbral and also not having any sounds you'd likely feel you'd really need to play from a non-hammer action.

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
A quality sounding VA synth and a good organ tone in one cheap package would be ultimate. No other bells and whistles. VR-730 is close, but the organ sounds off. Nord Stage hits the nail on the head but it's 3 grand.

If I were to get the Seven I'd either be putting an Electro or FA on top of it - never both. I'd love to be able to afford a top tier that did both well.

A Numa Organ with a Roland Boutique synth (or Waldorf Blofeld module) should do it. One button on the Numa toggles it between being a clone wheel and being a MIDI controller (with pitch and mod wheels) for an external module.
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#2913995 - 03/09/18 02:20 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ZioGuido]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ZioGuido
you can just use a cheap $10 MIDI-USB cable (interface) like this and get into that USB Type-A port that also accepts "Class Compliant" USB MIDI devices.

Cool! I think the ability of the USB to recognize class compliant controllers (and interfaces that turn regular midi keyboards into class compliant controllers) does essentially obviate any need for a DIN MIDI In, nice.
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#2913997 - 03/09/18 02:42 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
Jazz+ Offline
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For reference, what other boards might I have played with that same action? I had a Fatar weighted 76 key controller a while back, was that a 100 action? The dynamic range was quite narrow. I too wonder if the modeled piano tech will be available in the fantastic Mojo 61. Glad to sacrifice the Vox and Farfisa weird things and that current laggard of an AP for a snappy response modeled AP.


Edited by Jazz+ (03/09/18 02:46 PM)
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#2913999 - 03/09/18 03:05 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Jazz+]
Nadroj Offline
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Quote:
Numa Organ with a Roland Boutique synth (or Waldorf Blofeld module) should do it. One button on the Numa toggles it between being a clone wheel and being a MIDI controller (with pitch and mod wheels) for an external module.


Or could hook up the Galileo organ app to the FA and just use that. 2 items to carry in total, FA could sit on top of the 7 and if I need organ the iPad is always ready...
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#2914002 - 03/09/18 03:39 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Nadroj]
tfort Offline
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Does anyone know if the TP/100 has gone through any changes over the years?

The new Studiologic SL73 Studio controller uses the TP/100LR, which looks like it is the only TP/100 Fatar makes nowadays.

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sl-studio/
http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP100LR.html

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#2914010 - 03/09/18 05:38 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Adan]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
I love seeing a keyboard like this come out. The flat top/controls in front is so obviously useful for stacking, but it took a smaller company like Crumar to finally do it.


If only Korg had made the SV1 as a flatop, I'd own one.

When I was but a wee lad, I had an Arp 4 voice on which I placed a Crumar Orchestrator
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#2914013 - 03/09/18 06:23 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Morrisseysixman]
HammondDave Offline
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Where is the Wurlie demo?

Also... isn’t this going to piss off George Castanza?






Edited by HammondDave (03/09/18 06:23 PM)
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#2914015 - 03/09/18 06:30 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Adan]
CEB Offline
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New Mr Ray?
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#2914017 - 03/09/18 06:44 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: EscapeRocks]
SteveCoscia Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
When I was but a wee lad, I had an Arp 4 voice on which I placed a Crumar Orchestrator

Me too. I loved the Arp 4 Voice wooden keys and form factor. Stacked a Univox MultiMan on mine (predecessor to the Crumar Orchestrator). Eventually replaced the Multiman with a KORG Delta.
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#2914024 - 03/09/18 07:29 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I believe Nord used a 76 key version of the TP40 (non-M) in all the 76 key versions of the Stage prior to the 2EX.

But I agree this is probably TP100 based on the weight in a wood case. (Assuming it must indeed be a Fatar.)


Please re-read my post above ...
I said I doubt it´s a TP40 because those were only available in 76 and 88 keys versions,- and the 76 keys version I know is the TP40L (like in Kurzweil Forte 7).
All the Fatar 73 keys actions were TP100.

A.C.

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#2914025 - 03/09/18 07:29 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: SteveCoscia]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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I had a Korg Lambda that was an awesome "middle" board - CP30 beneath, MiniMoog on top.



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#2914027 - 03/09/18 07:34 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I can't imagine bringing this keyboard to a gig and using it just as a sound module!


In my home, man,- in my home ... !

But also on stages, all my keys in the rig went (and will do) into the PMM88E MIDI processor matrix, you know,- and it has Din-MIDI connectors.
For live, I use ALL my keys in MIDI local off mode,- always !

A.C.

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#2914028 - 03/09/18 07:39 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: jerrythek]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek


I agree, but there's always a work-around:

Iconnectivity

... Swiss army knife of solutions.

Jerry


Good tip, thx !

A.C.

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#2914029 - 03/09/18 07:45 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: tfort]
drawback Offline
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Registered: 05/11/04
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Originally Posted By: tfort
Does anyone know if the TP/100 has gone through any changes over the years?

The new Studiologic SL73 Studio controller uses the TP/100LR, which looks like it is the only TP/100 Fatar makes nowadays.

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sl-studio/
http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP100LR.html


I really like the TP/100LR action on my SL88 Studio, as well as the key tops.
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#2914040 - 03/09/18 08:57 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Al Coda]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I believe Nord used a 76 key version of the TP40 (non-M) in all the 76 key versions of the Stage prior to the 2EX.

But I agree this is probably TP100 based on the weight in a wood case. (Assuming it must indeed be a Fatar.)


Please re-read my post above ...
I said I doubt it´s a TP40 because those were only available in 76 and 88 keys versions,- and the 76 keys version I know is the TP40L (like in Kurzweil Forte 7).
All the Fatar 73 keys actions were TP100.


Two different things. My first sentence had nothing to do with 73s. It was a response to:

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
All the other {non-L} TP-40 seem to be available with 88 keys only.
...
I´ve never seen any TP40 M, H, GH or WOOD other than w/ 88keys in a keyboard

i.e. I was pointing out that there have been non-L TP40's in non-88-key boards.
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#2914042 - 03/09/18 10:19 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
JohnSC Offline
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Registered: 04/04/15
Posts: 47
Loc: South Carolina
Scratching my head about Seven, could it be the perfect expansion for Crumar? A high-quality, modeled piano with 73 keys would perfectly complement the new Mojo.

It would seem to expand the Crumar footprint rather than making incremental changes to existing products with marginal up-sell potential. The goal might be attracting new customers in addition to enhancing value for owners of the new Mojo.

Would it appeal to the fence-sitters who are tempted by the new Mojo's superior organ but demand superior piano, as well, which together would not cost much more than than the price of the competition's organ. Where else can you find the best organ and a superior piano for those dollars?


The other piece of this is the stage sounds and synths available in the DMC. And maybe Seven is why the piano was never upgraded in the Gemini.

Seems like Crumar has thought this out wisely, especially if it's a high-quality piano. And, apparently, a lot of time and sweat has been invested in developing the modeled piano. The 73 keys are important, but the sound could sell Sevens and Mojos if it's special.
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#2914045 - 03/09/18 10:27 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
AndreaAgnoletto Offline
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Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 46
Time for some tech informations and background smile
Why TP100LR instead of TP40? For two reasons: first one is obviously the weight, TP100LR is ligher. Second is the action; you need to keep in mind that this is not "another stage piano", Seven is focused on electric pianos MODELED and the feeling and action of TP100LR is way better for this purpose.
About acoustic piano: first decision was not to include acoustic piano into Seven, just to send a message and define the product tag; later, a side project we had for acoustic piano synthesis, has taken a step forward due to some tech reasons... so we decided to include it into Seven. But, please, remember: main focus of Seven is not acoustic piano... market is full of acoustics and stages based on samples from USD 200 to USD 4000, we would like to be OUT of this.
Can you please tell me, apart from VSTs and plugins, how many hardware instruments are present in market now with modeled acoustic and their prices?
We really hope you will understand the message behind Seven; it's all in the "logo": bright red when you are playing a modeled sound, dim red when you are playing a sampled sound.
Every modeled sound into Seven does have the sampled counterpart: so, if you would like to have the vibraphone in all 73 keys, simply choose the sampled vibraphone sound, anyway present inside Seven cool




Edited by AndreaAgnoletto (03/09/18 10:28 PM)
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