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#2921011 - 04/12/18 09:05 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
If you want a 2 keyboard rig, with the bottom being the Seven and the top being a combination of a clonewheel-level organ that also covers all the likely synth needs, then an NS Compact is the way to go, isn't it? The better clonewheels won't cover other bases nearly as well, while boards that cover the other bases as well or better than the Compact are will have organ that falls significantly shorter of clonewheel quality. Are there other good candidates for that role I'm forgetting?

I agree, NS3 is a great choice for combo clonewheel+synth. Other non-hammer-action possibilities would be Kronos 61 or LS, Kurzweil Artis7 or PC3K6/K7, Roland VR09/VR730, maybe Vox Continental, maybe FA-06/07. You're right that clonewheel quality would generally be considered sub-Nord, though you can also get around a lot of that with a Vent, and these boards have the advantages of generally better rompler sounds than Nord's (via multiple velocity layers). There's always a trade-off one way or the other. Other variables among these include what's available in terms of real-time synth sound creation/tweaking, split/layer functionality (some better than Nord, some worse), aftertouch, custom sample loading, and just how easy it is to integrate that Vent (assignable out best; ability to pan sounds to create a dual-mono setup for that dedicated organ out next best; no ability to route organ separately from other sounds worst).
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#2921012 - 04/12/18 09:05 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
Bronks Offline
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Have to admit Nords acoustic pianos are a way better sounding at the moment. It's obvious - they have a huge variety very professionally sampled pianos by years of experience, and I think they are still refining new sampling technologies while Crumar took a leap to physical modeling.

So, while the other pianos in the Crumar are killers, physical modeling acoustic piano is not very useful. I see it as a game starter. But actually there is also sampled grand d in Crumar, which is way better.

And the surface is quite sensitive for scratches. So, if you are thinking 30 days sending it back, maybe put some towel between;)
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#2921016 - 04/12/18 09:15 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Pigmeat]
kenheeter Offline
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Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 208
What's the mat materiall you're using between the Crumars? I will have this combo as well.

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#2921017 - 04/12/18 09:25 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: kenheeter]
Pigmeat Offline
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Originally Posted By: kenheeter
What's the mat materiall you're using between the Crumars? I will have this combo as well.


Duck Brand Black Select Easy Liner from Walmart is between.

I also use High-Friction Grip Discs from Lee Valley on the bottom of the Mojo.

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#2921023 - 04/12/18 09:55 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Pigmeat]
drawback Offline
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I would consider permanently attaching protection on the underside of anything that would sit on top of the Seven. I'd probably affix something eventually removable on the Seven, too.

No, I do not still have plastic on my lamp shades!
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#2921027 - 04/12/18 10:00 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Bronks]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bronks
And the surface is quite sensitive for scratches. So, if you are thinking 30 days sending it back, maybe put some towel between;)
Great point, and somewhat betwixing (is that a word?). He makes the Seven knowing that many will put a Mojo on top of it yet from what I've read (although not actually seen) the feet of the Mojo stick outside the top of the Seven; so without material in between the top could get easily scratched. Why wouldn't you plan around that?
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#2921030 - 04/12/18 10:10 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Delaware Dave]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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^^^
Sounds like an accessory opportunity for Crumar to investigate. Mojo mount for the Seven.
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#2921032 - 04/12/18 10:16 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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^^^^^^^

Like Ken Rich's Straddlers...

dB

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#2921075 - 04/12/18 12:38 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Bryce]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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^^^^^^

or Crumar can put out an oversized mouse pad type doily to put on top of the Seven, easily stowed in the right cubby.

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#2921078 - 04/12/18 12:59 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: MojoGuyPan]
drawback Offline
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In keeping with the retro look, I’d rather 2-way tape a piece of shag carpet. Probably copper or lime green.
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#2921089 - 04/12/18 01:50 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: drawback]
ABECK Offline
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How about thick red shag?



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#2921093 - 04/12/18 02:05 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Bronks Offline
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Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 139
Loc: Finland
Back to this...

I now have played full seven hours with Seven, and I can fully understand the critical opinion in a first review here. I can confirm, that if you are seeking a best bossible fully graded hammer action, it's not there. Then maybe Kawai MP11 is a way to go.

Anyway, as said earlier, when you think Crumar is aiming for electric pianos both soundwise and looks, why should the action imitate Fazioli? I have owned Nord Electro 5 HP and Nord Sage 2 EX 76 HP. Even they both uses the same keybed, the one in Stage 2EX felt a bit more smooth. Don't know why, but that's how it felt.

So, the way Crumar connects to my playing is very near Nord Stage 2EX HP 76. That's not too bad.
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#2921094 - 04/12/18 02:18 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: drawback]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: drawback
In keeping with the retro look, I’d rather 2-way tape a piece of shag carpet. Probably copper or lime green.

Brother drawback FTW. twothumbs

dB
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#2921099 - 04/12/18 03:01 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Dave Bryce]
MikeT156 Offline
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The electric piano sounds were excellent. I like the sound of the Rhodes on the Crumar more than the new generation of Rhodes pianos. The Acoustic Piano sound was way too bright and.......Lame. That's a deal breaker.



Mike T.
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#2921117 - 04/12/18 05:07 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: MikeT156]
Pigmeat Offline
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I used the sampled piano at my gig on the weekend - I like it better than the modeled one and it worked well in the mix. The sound guy gave us a recording off the board and I was quite happy with the sampled piano.

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#2921118 - 04/12/18 05:12 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Pigmeat]
AnotherScott Offline
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Is the sampled piano in the Seven the same as the pianos in the Mojo61 and/or Gemini? (I don't know whether those two are the same as each other.)
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#2921123 - 04/12/18 05:48 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
Pigmeat Offline
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Registered: 04/26/16
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Is the sampled piano in the Seven the same as the pianos in the Mojo61 and/or Gemini? (I don't know whether those two are the same as each other.)


I don't know the answer to that

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#2921145 - 04/12/18 09:06 PM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Pigmeat]
Bronks Offline
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Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 139
Loc: Finland
I think the answer is yes. Crumar uses editor app familiar from Gemini, and there is the sample banks you can load to Crumar. I had Gemini two years ago, and as I remember the piano sample bank was the same. Useful, but not best in the market.

I don’t know if discussed earlier, but you can not load your own samples. Just those which are in editors sample banks.
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#2921169 - 04/13/18 04:24 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Bronks]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I asked when the Gemini card was released if they had any intention of supporting sf2 or offering a way for users to create or upload their own samples, open it to third party dev, etc. I recall it not being in the works but not impossible.
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#2921174 - 04/13/18 04:59 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
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Registered: 12/02/14
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Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I asked when the Gemini card was released if they had any intention of supporting sf2 or offering a way for users to create or upload their own samples, open it to third party dev, etc. I recall it not being in the works but not impossible.

This would be a huge enhancement to the Gemini for me. I’m either bringing another keyboard or an Akai sample pad with triggers to gigs depending on the need.
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#2921209 - 04/13/18 07:59 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: Bronks]
jeffinpghpa Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Loc: Charlotte, NC
Originally Posted By: Bronks
Have to admit Nords acoustic pianos are a way better sounding at the moment. It's obvious - they have a huge variety very professionally sampled pianos by years of experience, and I think they are still refining new sampling technologies while Crumar took a leap to physical modeling.


This. But Nord has gotten long in the tooth with their Electric Pianos and clav. They had some amp'd EPs around 2014 and their 5MB clav is probably 8 years since updating.

(and why some roads lead to Kurzweil and Korg if you want good APs, EPs and some other actions besides TP/100)

Crumar Seven still looks really cool, though.
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#2921218 - 04/13/18 08:26 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: jeffinpghpa]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: jeffinpghpa
Originally Posted By: Bronks
Have to admit Nords acoustic pianos are a way better sounding at the moment. It's obvious - they have a huge variety very professionally sampled pianos by years of experience, and I think they are still refining new sampling technologies while Crumar took a leap to physical modeling.


This. But Nord has gotten long in the tooth with their Electric Pianos and clav. They had some amp'd EPs around 2014 and their 5MB clav is probably 8 years since updating.

They've also actually removed some of the clav functionality, i.e. the Electro 5 no longer has all the original EQ options. But yes, that's why I was saying a Seven looks like a great companion for the Nord, as it has its strengths in the EP/clav areas where Nord has fallen behind. One might prefer the Mojo organ, but the Nord organ is still quite good. You still won't have state of the art rompler sounds (orchestral instruments, etc.), but for quality emulation of most vintage keys (along with piano, which is REALLY vintage) inside just two boards, with superior ergonomics, a Nord and a Seven might be state of the art. Stage if you need VA synth among your vintage keys, maybe Electro if you can get by without it.
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#2921232 - 04/13/18 09:03 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
DanL Offline
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Nord released a Rhodes in 2016, and they all still sound great so I'm not sure what they can do to improve them. They have 8 Rhodes and 2 Wurlies available for download.

I agree on the clav- having key release and maybe a mute option would be nice- but the reduced functionality is really not an issue because you can use the eq knobs to dial in exactly what the eq buttons would do. I saw somewhere (can't recall right now where) someone had posted up EQ settings that emulated the EQ selections.
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#2921236 - 04/13/18 09:32 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: DanL]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: DanL
Nord released a Rhodes in 2016, and they all still sound great so I'm not sure what they can do to improve them.

If you think they sound as good as the EPs in the Seven (or Gemini or Mojo), then you're all set, but many people feel Nord's EPs are not as good as some others. Personally, I think they're okay, and I like them better than Roland's for example, but they're not my favorites. I like the Korg SV1 better, for example.

Originally Posted By: DanL
I agree on the clav- having key release and maybe a mute option would be nice- but the reduced functionality is really not an issue because you can use the eq knobs to dial in exactly what the eq buttons would do. I saw somewhere (can't recall right now where) someone had posted up EQ settings that emulated the EQ selections.

I don't think you can dial in the exact EQs, but there are approximations. But even then, it's a bit of a nuisance to have to dial in EQs rather than just call them up, and you can't be that precise with a knob on the fly. Really, even if you know what you're looking for, can you really reliably dial in, say, 4.3 kHz with the front panel knob, when the entire span from 4kHz to 6 kHz occupies maybe an eighth of an inch of travel? (We're also assuming that the Q of the Nord EQ matches that of the clav, that any bass or treble EQ of the clav is at the same frequency as the fixed frequencies on the Nord, etc.)


Edited by AnotherScott (04/13/18 09:54 AM)
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#2921238 - 04/13/18 09:36 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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If you like the pianos from Dexibell, their desktop module supports sfz import and might be a nice companion for the Seven if you're not into using a laptop or iPad and like the TP-100.
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#2921241 - 04/13/18 09:56 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: ElmerJFudd]
drawback Offline
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or...

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#2921242 - 04/13/18 09:56 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: DanL]
jeffinpghpa Offline
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Originally Posted By: DanL
Nord released a Rhodes in 2016, and they all still sound great so I'm not sure what they can do to improve them. They have 8 Rhodes and 2 Wurlies available for download.


Nefertiti is a nice Rhodes. As to what they can do to improve them, for example, the Purgatory Creek sound set in my Forte are about 2.5GB for just a Mark 1, 200a, 140b, CP70, Pianet N and Clav D. There is not only a lot of depth, but longer samples and lots and lots of velocity layers.

I have figured out how to fill the entire Flash RAM with Scarbee Rhodes and it's just another level past Nord in hardware and seamless to load in from a memory stick to Flash Ram to play a gig with Scarbee entirely in hardware.

Is that "better" than the Gemini sounds in Seven? Maybe, maybe not. I just think either is better than Nord's EPs.

That's just me. Don't buy what I like, get what YOU like. Play and have fun. I'm not preaching or talking down anybody who is into Nord or Crumar by any means. I'm happy to hear a good player on any of these boards, really.
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#2921247 - 04/13/18 10:42 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: jeffinpghpa]
bennyray Offline
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The Purgatory Creek Rhodes in my Kronos is better than that the Nord Eps. IMO.
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#2921256 - 04/13/18 11:33 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: bennyray]
M_G Offline
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Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 546
Loc: Germany
I had the NE5 and the Korg Grandstage side
by side for a while....

Really no comparison, the Nord Rhodes and Wurlitzer
are out dated, sorry.....

I had the Purtagory sounds on the Kronos in
the past, they're great.

The Scarbee is fantastic!
Korg put a downscaled Scarbee into the Module App,
I still hope they'll make a full version for the Grandstage too.

But it's the Seven thread and I have to say
I am impressed by the latest vids but I am not a fan
of the TP100 at all.....


Edited by M_G (04/13/18 11:34 AM)
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#2921257 - 04/13/18 11:36 AM Re: Crumar Seven [Re: bennyray]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
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Loc: Mainland Florida
Crumar v. Nord EPs is no contest. Crumar houses the Nord. The SV-1 is better than the Nord. As a package the Nord Electro is solid but the EP's are not it's strong suit. Jack of all trades and all that.

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