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#2911306 - 02/22/18 01:15 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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The frying pan is getting hotter.

I don’t think any but the most blindered beancounters would move primary production of Gibson to Korea- that’s Epiphone’s place in the structure.

I think it’s more likely you’d see divestment of non-essential (read: non-guitar) subdivisions and a vast streamlining of Gibson’s product lines. IOW, you won’t see a bunch of different LP models, a variety of SGs, etc. Included in that production restructuring would be improved QC and probably some turnover in the employment side. Not just firings, but also strategic rehires.
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#2911359 - 02/22/18 09:05 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Sharkman Offline
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Gibson has just over one billion dollars in annual revenue, which is a lot more than the amount of debt (bank loans and corporate bonds) that is coming due several months from now. Don't be surprised if their CEO Henry Juszkiewicz files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in June or July. That buys them a lot of time to restructure their debt. If Gibson takes that route, you will see some jawdropping deals on guitars in an attempt to raise enough cash to satisfy their biggest creditors. The small creditors will most likely get screwed. I would advise to keep some cash handy, because if Chapter 11 happens, you could get lucky.
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#2911381 - 02/23/18 04:07 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Sharkman]
whitefang Offline
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It's enough for me to keep a grip on my own finances let alone be able to think in terms of the amount of money THOSE guys have to juggle.

But that sounds good enough to me, and hopefully for many not too good to be true. wink

And I kinda agree with Danny up there that they might have to let go some of their non-guitar related divestment lines. If indeed they can be shown to be channeling too much money and attention from the guitar lines and having that much detriment to the quality. And not pulling in enough revenue to keep them on.
Whitefang
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#2911404 - 02/23/18 07:16 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Um...didn`t Heritage start as a working team from Gibson that got fed up with their BS, and then proceeded to kick Gibson`s butt all over the map?
A change in management is a typical shareholder band aid-the vision needs to change.
Hire Phil Jackson.
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#2911407 - 02/23/18 07:37 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: skipclone 1]
Sharkman Offline
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Heritage came about when Gibson decided to move their production down to Nashville, Tennessee. A lot of the craftsmen with many years of experience in making high quality guitars chose to stay in Kalamazoo, and start up their own guitar company called Heritage. The only bad thing I can say about Heritage is that they don't do a very good job of marketing themselves. But they make excellent guitars.
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#2911425 - 02/23/18 09:35 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: skipclone 1]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Um...didn`t Heritage start as a working team from Gibson that got fed up with their BS, and then proceeded to kick Gibson`s butt all over the map?
A change in management is a typical shareholder band aid-the vision needs to change.
Hire Phil Jackson.


Yes. On all counts.
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#2911533 - 02/23/18 06:50 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Larryz Offline
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"Although it is well known for its guitars, Gibson's largest business is in fact electronics. Gibson offers consumer audio equipment devices through its subsidiaries Gibson Innovations (Philips brand), Onkyo Corporation(Onkyo and Pioneer brands), TEAC Corporation (Teac and Esoteric brands), Cerwin Vega and Stanton,as well as professional audio equipment from KRK Systems and TEAC Corporation/TASCAM and music software from Cakewalk." Wiki

+1 Time for a new vision. Gibson can still compete in the guitar world if they would concentrate on building instruments people can afford IMHO... cool
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#2911549 - 02/23/18 09:12 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Apparently, creditors are now saying any financial bailout option will necessarily include Henry J's ouster. Which can only be for the good of the company & the brand. He's the albatross who has brought the company down.
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#2911573 - 02/24/18 04:24 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
"Although it is well known for its guitars, Gibson's largest business is in fact electronics. Gibson offers consumer audio equipment devices through its subsidiaries Gibson Innovations (Philips brand), Onkyo Corporation(Onkyo and Pioneer brands), TEAC Corporation (Teac and Esoteric brands), Cerwin Vega and Stanton,as well as professional audio equipment from KRK Systems and TEAC Corporation/TASCAM and music software from Cakewalk." Wiki

+1 Time for a new vision. Gibson can still compete in the guitar world if they would concentrate on building instruments people can afford IMHO... cool


Yeah, it does seem they've spread themselves a bit thin, don't it?
Whitefang
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#2911590 - 02/24/18 07:05 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I got a new Sweetwater catalog in the mail yesterday (yeah they still send me one once a year LOL!) and before I tossed it, I decided to look at the Gibson guitar prices. And I was shocked! The average price range seemed to be around $4 grand. I know they can put out a decent US LP Classic for $1,500 and a Studio model for $700. That would be the price range that I think people could still afford to buy one of their guitars...and that's why they probably sell more upgraded Epi's these days... cool
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#2912199 - 02/28/18 11:19 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Scott Fraser]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Apparently, creditors are now saying any financial bailout option will necessarily include Henry J's ouster. Which can only be for the good of the company & the brand. He's the albatross who has brought the company down.



Yeah, I'd posted this as the last post on the first page:

Bloomberg: Gibson Creditors Want New CEO Before Rescue Deal

A group of bondholders advised by PJT Partners Inc. is pushing for a restructuring that would hand them ownership of the guitar maker and let them install new leadership, according to people with knowledge of the plans. The holders don’t expect Gibson’s earnings will be strong enough to attract new money for a refinancing to head off a default looming later this year, and creditors are reluctant to invest more funds while Juszkiewicz is still in charge, the people said.

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#2912200 - 02/28/18 11:22 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
p90jr Offline
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Gibson Boss blames guitar stores for financial woes

“They put all of these guitars on the wall, and they put the best ones out of reach. Because you might steal one? Well, that's one way to look at it, but Apple doesn't look at it that way, and most of their stuff is more expensive than a lot of higher-end guitars. Their products are just out on tables for everyone to pick up and look at, and while they have some theft protection, it's not like they have a security force in each store. We just have the whole thing wrong. If you want customers, you have to be nice to them, and give them a place where they are comfortable.”

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#2912265 - 02/28/18 04:14 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Gibson Boss blames guitar stores for financial woes

“They put all of these guitars on the wall, and they put the best ones out of reach. Because you might steal one? Well, that's one way to look at it, but Apple doesn't look at it that way, and most of their stuff is more expensive than a lot of higher-end guitars. Their products are just out on tables for everyone to pick up and look at, and while they have some theft protection, it's not like they have a security force in each store. We just have the whole thing wrong. If you want customers, you have to be nice to them, and give them a place where they are comfortable.”


A completely irrelevant argument from the guy who bears full responsibility for Gibson's woes. Apple is in no way the equivalent of a guitar shop, for a lot of reasons. But typical for an egomaniacal bully to blame everybody else for his own incompetence.
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#2912357 - 03/01/18 04:58 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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grin
Y'know, just for the fun of it, I'm gonna go to the nearby MIKE CAREY and A&R music shops and ask when WAS the last time some guy charged out of the door with a guitar or two in his arms? rolleyes
Whitefang
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#2912459 - 03/01/18 11:12 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
grin
Y'know, just for the fun of it, I'm gonna go to the nearby MIKE CAREY and A&R music shops and ask when WAS the last time some guy charged out of the door with a guitar or two in his arms? rolleyes
Whitefang


Yeah, BUT, maybe 30 some years ago I dropped by the Hollywood Guitar Center & saw a bunch of the employees standing outside, looking up & down the street. One of them told me a guy just grabbed a keyboard controller & bolted right the hell out of the store.
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#2912530 - 03/01/18 02:59 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Scott Fraser]
p90jr Offline
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I posted the news story here years ago when someone DID dash out of our Guitar Center with two guitars in his hands.

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#2917489 - 03/26/18 12:34 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
p90jr Offline
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#2917583 - 03/27/18 03:50 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Posts: 11038
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Wow.....

And I thought I had money troubles. sick

Looks as if all of their "money saving" ideas backfired. smirk
Whitefang
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#2917625 - 03/27/18 07:40 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Gibson appears to be in a nose dive right now and I can only hope they can pull out of it. Just guessing, but it may be possible that the bond holders could restructure their debts once a Chapter 13 bankruptcy is filed, and allow them to stay in business. But, just over half a billion, is a pretty big debt to deal with... cool
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#2917658 - 03/27/18 10:03 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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One of the things going on behind the scenes is that some of the major bond holders have essentially said that ditching Juszkiewicz would be part of any restructuring THEY would be party to.

IOW, it’s “King Solomon baby-splitting” time for Henry. If he truly loves Gibson, he may have to leave in order for it to survive. If he doesn’t, the Bankruptcy courts won’t be given a deal they can approve, and the company will be sold off piecemeal.
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#2917696 - 03/27/18 02:46 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
CEB Offline
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I've been looking at Dobros. I forgot Gibson owned the Dobro name... . .. bummer.


Edited by CEB (03/27/18 02:46 PM)
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#2917715 - 03/27/18 05:27 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: CEB]
Sharkman Offline
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John D. Rockefeller once said "Every crisis creates an opportunity." The Gibson financial crisis will create some opportunities for someone to buy guitars pretty cheap, since the company will have to unload inventory in order to raise cash. I'm hoping that I can be one of those someones, so we shall see how this all plays out.
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#2917728 - 03/27/18 07:00 PM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Sharkman]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 5222
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Sharkman
John D. Rockefeller once said "Every crisis creates an opportunity." The Gibson financial crisis will create some opportunities for someone to buy guitars pretty cheap, since the company will have to unload inventory in order to raise cash. I'm hoping that I can be one of those someones, so we shall see how this all plays out.


When they start unloading Super 400s & L5s for $1000 I'll be waiting in line.
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#2917805 - 03/28/18 07:19 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Scott Fraser]
Sharkman Offline
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Scott, that's not going to happen, but the $5,500 to $7,500 range is a bit more realistic.
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#2917807 - 03/28/18 07:26 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Scott Fraser]
Fred_C Offline
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[quote=Scott Fraser
When they start unloading Super 400s & L5s for $1000 I'll be waiting in line. [/quote]

Hell yeah! I'll be in that line too!
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#2917834 - 03/28/18 10:26 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
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+2,000, I'll take both of them! cool
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#2924444 - 05/01/18 07:31 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Larryz]
p90jr Offline
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#2924448 - 05/01/18 07:46 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
Sharkman Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
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If they're going to sell off some assets to raise cash, I sure would love a Les Paul Standard in a cherry sunburst finish with a nicely figured maple top and normal tuners for $1,500 or less. Preferably less.
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#2924465 - 05/01/18 08:45 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: Sharkman]
p90jr Offline
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They're selling off the consumer electronics divisions they bought from Phillips and Onkyo and just going back to being a guitar company... and one that seems as if it will be relieved of Herny J's leadership... so, no.

Though Guitar Center and other outlets are having a sale on 2016 inventory Gibsons, which seem to be the same price they were in 2016 to me.

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#2924474 - 05/01/18 09:13 AM Re: Variety: Gibson said to be nearing bankruptcy [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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‘Bout damn time.

Details are still sketchy, and Ch. 11 is no guarantee of a return to viability, but it’s a start.
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