Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Tips for bad/cheesy 60s Organ sounds on Hammond clone?


Recommended Posts

Just wondered if anyone had special settings or tricks for this types of sound they could share?

 

I am asking because I recently come to appreciate that not all of the cheesy 60s organ sounds were played on a Vox or Farfisa.

 

This really sunk home last night fooling around on my Roland VR09 and a Jazz or Rock Hammond base tone, not the Transistor setting.

 

Using only the 8, 4 and 2 settings, Vibrato and the Leslie on stop or off, with a touch of distortion, I was getting some great, very cool cheesy organ sounds. Very groovy, in a bad sort of way. I know Ive heard it before on albums.

 

Until my VR09, I have never had a Hammond sound at my fingertips. Instead, combo organs were it (Vox, Farfisa, currently Ace-tone). Thus, those are the sounds I naturally gravitate to when I want to get away from the traditional Hammond Green Onions sound.

 

However, I am currently on the look for non-traditional, traditional 60s sounds for my ska/old school reggae/soul band. The fact that I might be able to get some funky home organ tones out of my VR09 has me excited. Hence my post. Sorry for the ramble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 24
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I was going to advise using 8 4 and 2 with vibrato instead of chorus and leslie stopped or off, but...

 

;)

 

Ditto, fundamentals out, V1/2/3 to taste, maybe even C1 or C2. Rotary stopped and you have cheesey goodness in spades :idk

 

Edit: Ska band? Those settings I listed are generally the settings I use in the ska band I play with. Occasionally edit C/V and rotary settings based on the song, but I generally stick with all white draw bars out, then modify to taste if I play a lead part or solo.

Hammond SKX

Mainstage 3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the occasions where I don't take out a real Combo Organ I use a Casio WK-3800. There is a dedicated Tonewheel section on this Keyboard. With the Rotary effect off and using LFO modulation it comes the closest of anything I've heard to replicating Combo Organ sounds. You can also add a Release envelope to the Organ sounds in case you want to replicate the Lucy in the Sky or Waiting for the Sun Lowrey/Gibson Organ sounds.

 

The early Zombies and Animals used Vox Continentals. Some late recordings did feature Hammond. The Animals used a Lowrey on "Don't Bring Me Down" and a few other recordings.

 

Some other examples of Hammond doing somewhat Cheesy sounds:

 

Mony, Mony - Organist Kenny Laguna told me this was the white drawbars out on a Hammond.

 

A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You/I'm a Believer - In an interview Keyboardist/arranger Artie Butler confirmed this flutey sound was done on a Hammond. The Vox Continental nails this sound so I was never sure.

 

Liar, Liar - Organist Jim Donna told me this was a B3. He ran it through a single-speed Leslie on stop.

C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just want to make a comment about the word cheese implying these sounds are bad, unhip, whatever. These are as much a part of the classic sounds as the standard Hammond sound you hear in jazz or Santana. These artists specifically did not want that sound, they wanted these sounds and worked hard to get them.

 

To me this isn't cheese, it's part of classic rock history as exemplified by the legendary keyboard sound on Light My Fire by the Doors. Back in the day I had to work the drawbars and CV on my B3 to make it sound like that too (and never got it exactly right) and I thought it was a very cool sound for that tune. Same with those Animals tunes there were times I wished I had a Continental. A Continental is not a B3 and I thought it was a good looking keyboard. I only played one once in a music store and I thought, yes that's it, that's the other organ sound I hear and I wanted one. It wasn't cheap either.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An old saying that I live by to this day...

"Much of what we revere as HISTORY is nothing more than ANCIENT HAPPY ACCIDENTS taken as MODERN GOSPEL."

 

These were the sounds that were created, using the tools at hand. I don't think it was a conscious effort to avoid the "natural Hammond sound". You got drawbars, you pulled & pushed them until you got the sound you wanted (or "try out this experiment" sort of thing). Using whatever organ you could get your hands on. Simple.

 

What most of us here refer to as "cheese" is probably MENTALLY ENCODED from the time period of 1969-74 when everybody loved that honking B3 sound and you wouldn't be seen in public with a Vox or Farfisa (other than for "novelty effect"). We tend to associate "organ cheese" with songs like "96 Tears" etc.

 

Yes, the Vox/Farfisa/Combo sound IS certainly part of rock history, no doubt... and even got a little boost/revival during the 1977-80 New Wave period a-la Elvis Costello et al.

Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Alesis Ion, Kawai K3M
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I kind of have a similar problem, but with the cheesy (to me) 80s "organ" sounds. I'm guessing most of those were DX7 organ patches(?) Anyway, a normal hammond sound just doesn't have the same vibe...one song we play like that is "I hate myself for loving you" by Joan Jett. I still just play a hammond sound on my v-combo and it sounds ok-ish....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kenny Laguna plays Keys with Joan Jett on stage and produces her recordings. He is a bit of a "cheese" specialist having played on hits by The Ohio Express, 1910 Fruitgum Company, The Lemon Pipers, Jay and the Americans, and The Crazy Elephant.
C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recall reading something where Ray Manzarek said that the reason he used a Vox Continental was because it had a flat top on which he could place the Fender Rhodes Piano Bass.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Columbia Records supplied The Doors with Vox gear when they were briefly signed to the label in 1965. This included a Vox Continental Organ. The band played without a bass player for a couple of months until one day they went to audition for a gig. The current house band's equipment was on stage and there was a Vox Continental with a Piano Bass on top. Ray was then inspired to acquire one of his own and the rest is history. When he replaced the Vox finding an Organ that was suitable for placing the Piano Bass atop was a concern. He went with the Gibson/Kalamazoo though I have seen a photo of him playing an outdoor show with the Piano Bass on top of a Farfisa Compact Duo. He can also be seen in the "Hello I Love You" video with the Piano Bass on top an RMI 300A Electra-Piano and Harpsichord.
C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Columbia Records supplied The Doors with Vox gear when they were briefly signed to the label in 1965. This included a Vox Continental Organ. The band played without a bass player for a couple of months until one day they went to audition for a gig. The current house band's equipment was on stage and there was a Vox Continental with a Piano Bass on top. Ray was then inspired to acquire one of his own and the rest is history. When he replaced the Vox finding an Organ that was suitable for placing the Piano Bass atop was a concern. He went with the Gibson/Kalamazoo though I have seen a photo of him playing an outdoor show with the Piano Bass on top of a Farfisa Compact Duo. He can also be seen in the "Hello I Love You" video with the Piano Bass on top an RMI 300A Electra-Piano and Harpsichord.

 

Ray revealed in a Keyboard mag interview that back in those days he went through 4 or 5 Vox Continental organs - "they weren't meant to be in this world for long". The other reason he chose to move to the Kalamazoo was to use a more reliable organ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree, leslie off, distortion, optional vibrato. It makes quite a cutting bright sound in a band situation, and sometimes I prefer this to using the Vox/Farfisa settings on the Nord. My favourite from that era is the Yamaha YC organs run through a tube amp (I own 2 of them!), and you seem to get a bit closer to this sound with a non-Leslie Hammond.

 

From Ray Manzarek doing a spoof version of Doors songs for Weird Al Yankovich

; I sometimes used his NE2 setting: 888004043.

 

There's a fuller setting I preferred with a few scoops cut out of the high drawbars but I can't quite recall what it was. I'll see if I've got it saved on my NE5 when I get home.

Gear: Nord Electro 5D 73, Moog Grandmother, M-Audio Hammer 88, MicroKorg, Yamaha YC-20, Yamaha YC-25D, Fender 70's Tele Custom, Fender Blues Junior Tweed, Squier P-Bass, Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120, Roland Jazz Chorus JC-50

Previously: Korg SV-1, SpaceStation V3, Nord Electro 3, Nord Electro 2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just want to make a comment about the word cheese implying these sounds are bad, unhip, whatever.

To me it isn't necessarily bad, it's more like "say cheese". Every time I pulled out a transistor organ sound everyone in the band - including me - would get a cheesy grin on their face.

It just automatically sounds corny, or cheesy, tongue in cheek etc.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

-Mark Twain

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys

 

Sorry for the delay, appreciate the many tips above!!

(the Manzarek overdubs on the Weird Al song are hilarious, thanks for that link!) I also tried the 888004043, that sounds nice too.

 

Glad to hear I am on the right track, with 8',4',2', no leslie.

 

 

Expanding this topic of "cheezy" organ sounds, any collective suggestions for how to get other, even more weird old-school organ tones from a standard clonewheel (in my case, a Roland VR09). Any settings/pedals, etc?

 

By weird sounds for example I mean the "Celeste" type sound one can find on some old cheap home organs.

 

I've attached a few links below so you can see some of the "atypical" organ sounds I'm trying to get (atypical in that they are not classic B3 tones, nor Farfisa/Vox/Acetone).

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

Example Quirky Organ sounds:

 

Teahouse from Emporor Rosko - Dice the Boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgiY6DT5jLk

 

Soulful I - Upsetters:

 

The Liquidator - Harry J Allstars:

 

Mad Movie The Hippy Boys:

(good example of "Celeste" type sound - especially at the intro, and later on in the song)

 

One Step Beyond Jackie Mittoo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luQCq-iBU7g

 

A Fistful of Dollars The Crystalites

- (Organ starts around 27s)

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The footages that will come closest to simulating a Vox Continental are 16', 8', 4', 2', 2 2/3', 1', and 1 3/5'. On the Continental the first three footages each have a separate drawbar. The last four footages are controlled by a single drawbar which allows only an overall amount of these footages. The Vox Continental has two additional drawbars. At least one of these has to be pulled out to produce a sound. One drawbar produces a flutey sine wave tone and the other produces a bright cutting tone. These two drawbars can be used separately or together. The dual Keyboard Vox Super Continental adds a 5 1/3' footage and combines it with 1 3/5' on one drawbar and puts the 2', 2 2/3', and 1' on another drawbar for a bit more control over the levels of the mixtures and higher footages. For the classic Vox Continental sound leave out the 5 1/3' mixture.

 

Electronic vibrato is another important element of the Vox sound that most Hammond Organs and clones don't do well. The Hammond L100 series has electronic vibrato and can come closer to replicating the Vox sound than other Hammonds.

 

Farfisa Organs have fewer footages than Vox but are more difficult to replicate. The Compact and Mini-Compact only have 16', 8', and 4'. The Compact Deluxe and Duo add a 2 2/3' mixture. The Farfisa sound is more difficult to produce on a Hammond as the Farfisa tabs are pre-voiced filtered square waves intended to sound like Bass, Flute, Strings, Trumpet, Oboe, and Piccolo which can be added together in various combinations. The All-Tone Booster applies high-pass filtering producing a bright piercing tone. As with Vox the Farfisa has electronic vibrato.

C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a master Farfisa player with all the classic 60's models. One of the Mini-Compacts is probably running through a Farfisa RSC 180 rotary speaker.

 

[video:youtube]

C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 years later...

Hi roygBiv,

 

I can give you informations about the organs used in your links.

 

In rocksteady/reggae tunes from that era (1968-1972), most of the organ sounds come from hammond (no B3, cheaper models like L-100).

 

On The Liquidator, I'm pretty sure it's a Hammond L-100, recorded in D-I (Leslies were rarely used in jamaican recordings before 1970). The melody is played using the two manual. Part 1, lower M (008880000), Part 2 (high notes), upper M (008808000). Chorus1 on both manuals.

 

On Teahouse from Emporor Rosko - Dice the Boss, it looks like a Hammond L-100, D-I, reverb 2, approximate drawbars setting : 957000000. At the end of the song, we can hear the percussion (2d) going in.

 

On Soulful I, it looks like a Lowrey Heritage, that The Upsetters used in several tunes. Those sounds are impossible to simulate on a hammond, because hammond consoles don't have sustain mode. The best you can do is to use a lot of reverb, but it's still not the same.

 

It's looks like a Lowrey Heritage (or Gibson G101) on the Crystalites tune as well.

 

The sound in Bad Movie looks like a Farfisa professionnal duo, but it could be also a Baldwin/Lowrey spinet. On the Hippy boys picture, the organ looks like a Conn ou Baldwin spinet. Again, those sustain sound are hard to replicate on hammond.

 

One Step Beyond features a Farfisa compact. We can hear Jackie Mittoo use this organ on several Skatalites songs, including Killer Diller. As other mentionned, the sound can fairly easily be simulated on a Hammond by using drawbar setting 8, 4 and 2 (but the sound will have less character).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Combo organs rock. Wooly Bully and Strawberry Alarm Clock sounds like ass on a Hammond.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I enjoyed the Farcheeza patch on my TX81Zs. I still have my old red Farfisa Compact. My first electronic keyboard.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"... a Hammond L-100 ..... approximate drawbars setting : 957000000..."

 

I'm truly impressed; I've heard of some guitar amps that go to "11", but yours is the first L-100 organ whose drawbars go to 9 ....

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"I'm truly impressed; I've heard of some guitar amps that go to "11", but yours is the first L-100 organ whose drawbars go to 9 ...."

 

 

Indeed, there is 9 drawbars on the upper manual and 7 drawbars on the lower manual (last time I played on one was ten years ago) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...