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#2910419 - 02/18/18 05:31 AM New PC Computer Build
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Put together this set of components for upgrading my PC. It's been exactly 6 years since my last build and some of my soft-synths are pushing the limits at the lower buffer settings. Curious what you fellow PC builders think. Keeping my original mid-level graphics card (not a gamer) and I'm also not into the water cooling thing as I use really quiet fans. Also pulling/reusing my RME PCI-e audio interface, Seasonic Pwr Supply, at least 1 SATA SSD for back-up and maybe the CD/DVD read/writer (if I need it).

1) Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake 6-Core 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series)

2) ASUS ROG Maximus X Code LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z370 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard

3) G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GVR

4) Noctua NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler, NF-A15 x 2 PWM
Fans

5) SAMSUNG 960 PRO M.2 1TB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (for OS and Apps)

6) SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) (for Samples)

7) be quiet! DARK BASE PRO 900 ATX Full Tower Computer Chassis - Black

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KC Island
#2910424 - 02/18/18 07:01 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
MoodyBluesKeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 3391
Loc: eastern North Carolina
I didn't look up each part, but overall sounds pretty good. If you're using a full tower case, might as well put in the DVD writer, not like you're going to use that space for something else.
Maybe an eSATA connector for external backup device that can be disconnected when not in use (reboot required of course).
Needs a nice big high resolution monitor - I use 32" Samsung HDTV as monitor. My primary computer is a bit older, and was purchased refurbished, although I did make additions: HP Z220 with quad Xeon proc, 32GB RAM, 1TB Crucial MX200 SSD, 1TB Hitachi hard drive for backup, CD/DVD/BluRay burner, AMD Firepro V3900 graphics, all in a small form factor case.
_________________________
Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
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#2910441 - 02/18/18 09:18 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: MoodyBluesKeys]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Good points. I do a full back up maybe once per year on a drive that's then stored in a safe deposit box. Additionally I prefer a dedicated internal drive for more frequent back-up. I found external drives more trouble than they're worth and I would not back up regularly.

I forgot to mention I'm keeping my 32" Benq 4k monitor which replaced my dying Samsung last year. And yes on the tower case- used to be you had all these storage drives to fill up those bays. I think you're right - might as well install the CD/DVD reader/writer.

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#2910443 - 02/18/18 09:24 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: MoodyBluesKeys]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7946
Loc: Ghost Planet
My Amazon cart looks like this and with case would come in around $1,000:

- Samsung 960 EVO Series - 500GB NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V6E500BW)
- Corsair VS Series VS550 550 W Active PFC 80 PLUS White Certified Power Supply (CP-9020171-NA)
- Intel BX80684I78700K 8th Gen Core i7-8700K Processor
- ASUS PRIME Z370-A LGA1151 DDR4 DP HDMI DVI M.2 USB 3.1 Z370 ATX Motherboard with USB 3.1
- Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 DRAM 3000MHz C15 Desktop Memory Kit - White

Wondering why I can't get by with onboard graphics. If I'm not gaming, why not? Want a mid-size tower that can fit as many SSDs and HDDs as possible. I'm flexible here, just knowing I'll need three to four. I've never run more than 16GB RAM. I think I can get by with 500GB for the main drive if I keep photos/docs/downloads and all large sample library installations other drives. The 500GB is $199 while the 1TB is more like $450. Am unsure about CPU fan. Don't plan on overclocking, but then again maybe.

Busch.

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#2910445 - 02/18/18 09:58 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
That all looks good Bill. My MB choice was driven by needing many USB ports - but maybe an expensive solution. I do prefer to avoid hubs or an extra PCI card. I occasionally watch movies or videos and I already have the graphics card as my current MB doesn't have and HDMI or other display port. But I see no reason you can't run directly off the MB.

I think you still need a CPU fan. Intel processors used to come with one albeit a cheapo one. Look at Noctua for quiet operation. Same with whatever case you get. It will have fans built in or you'll have to add them. Even with no OC this stuff runs hot.



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#2910447 - 02/18/18 10:18 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Husker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/07/16
Posts: 160
Loc: Alabama
Mark, do you prefer the air over water cooling?
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#2910452 - 02/18/18 11:02 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Husker]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Husker
Mark, do you prefer the air over water cooling?


I do, I'm currently OCing my 3.2 G CPU at 4Ghz. Any more and I get occasional boot up problems. My temps are fine with fans only (all Noctua) . Quiet operation is very important to me and I don't want to hear any strange gurgling sounds. Even if it's dead silent I think water cooling is marketed towards the gamers trying to squeeze out every last Hertz. Not my thing.

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#2910456 - 02/18/18 11:20 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
hardware Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1305
Loc: Macau
Just a tip in case you use Multis in Dual Live Mode Of Omnisphere.
Make sure your NVMe M.2 has the STEAM Folder.
Otherwise Keyscape/Trillian would give you yellow progress bars.
SSDs are great are streamimg but loading samples like an Akai MPC, or old rackmounted Roland/EMU/Akai samplers is pure brute speed.
If you use just Omnisphere and itís synths only SSDs are fine.
But using OS+Apps and STEAM on NVMe M.2s is a lifesaver if youíre a busy board player.

Nice fast build though.
Should keep you happy.
Intel already discontinued the i7 6700 Series.
Theyíre dumping chips way too fast for any maturity in their product line.
May as well get the fastest latest models.
_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic

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#2910470 - 02/18/18 12:22 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: hardware]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Not an Omnisphere user but thanks anyway.

Btw Bill Busch- I think it was Markay who posted that some of these softsynths offload some processing power to the Graphics card. Not sure which ones or any details but maybe fancy GPUs have some added benefit for music applications? idk

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#2910493 - 02/18/18 02:54 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Throbert Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Put together this set of components for upgrading my PC. It's been exactly 6
years since my last build and some of my soft-synths are pushing the limits
at the lower buffer settings. Curious what you fellow PC builders think.
Keeping my original mid-level graphics card (not a gamer) and I'm also not
into the water cooling thing as I use really quiet fans. Also pulling/reusing
my RME PCI-e audio interface, Seasonic Pwr Supply,
Might be better off with a new PSU the caps usually start to go first, then you'll
start running into system issues that could end up damaging the board and
other components. Don't know the average MTBF is but it's been 6 years so...
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
4) Noctua NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler, NF-A15 x 2 PWM Fans
A lot of DAW builders are using Bequiet fans, coolers and some are using their PSUs
as well, I've read reports of their fans being more pleasant sounding than Noctuas,
I'm happy with my NH-D15 in my current rig but don't think Noctua is the
only game in town any more.

If you're plan on using Windows 10 you might want to consider keeping a good
working install on a separate partition and an updatable install as well.
Considering MSs update scheme, disabling your NIC on your working partition
would serve you well to keep MS out of your life and the NIC tends to deter
Latency performance as well.
_________________________
Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM RPX, HX3 module/
Drawbar controller, Lynx Aurora 8/AES16e, MSI Z97 MPower/
4790K, OP-X PRO-II, Pianotec, Komplete 5.
I need a UAD quad and an IEM rig. More VIs

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#2910496 - 02/18/18 03:10 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2993
Loc: Australia
I first read about utilising the Graphics card CPU, if suitable, in the Melda MVintage Rotary manual.

Whether that is fall back option with slower CPU's IDK. I have never bothered with a gamer level graphics card figuring a fast CPU should provide all the resources required.

I have always used Samsung Pro SSD's. Our corporate supplier recommends them instead of EVO, at roughly a $50 premium, and I accept their recommendation. Given this supplier has provided virtually a lifetime warranty, not in writing but that is the way it has worked, we always accept their recommendations. We have been running SSD's in a high write and read corporate environment 24/7/365 for 5 years now and have yet to have one fail.
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"He helped me onto the bottom rung as a musician, from which, I might add, I never ascended" Glyn Johns - Sound Man

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#2910509 - 02/18/18 04:08 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markay]
hardware Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1305
Loc: Macau
Also an 850 Pro user.
Higher binned parts and a 10 year warranty.
EVOs are fine but for live performers the extra dough is always worth it.

Thanks for Windows 10 tip.
Still happy with 7s and an 8.1 but plan to go to 10 as my interface finally gave us new drivers for Windows.
I was on xp64 drivers.

Always hate fixing things that already work though.

Have fun with the build.
Been using PCS for 15 years and never once crashed except an outdoor 110 degree gig.
Hardware got me through until I rebuilt the airflow design for hot Midwest crappy summer weather....100% humidity there, forgot all about that.

Much more satisfying than hardware only.
Gotta gave both for my gigs.
_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic

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#2910515 - 02/18/18 04:23 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markay]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
I'll ask a developer about potential use of a GPU by a soft synth if the opportunity arises. I didn't mean to imply that one should consider their graphics card based on it potential to help soft synths. Just sharing some of your worldly knowledge Mark wave

Thanks Throbert - may consider additional be quiet fans after some experience with their case and included fans.

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#2910516 - 02/18/18 04:34 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
For the 1 TB SSD there's about a 30% additional cost with the Pro vs Evo. And the warranty is 5 yr vs 3. I struggled which way to go but figured the Evo was a safe bet for a sample drive where each memory cell is written to once. Also the Read Speed is on par with the Pro. Audio recording will be done on the Pro as part of the main OS and application drive. That's how I currently operate my SATA SSDs without any issues.

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#2910535 - 02/18/18 06:10 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7946
Loc: Ghost Planet
Man, things have changed so much since the last time I built a PC. So much to learn.

That Noctua NH-D15 is Ginormous. I was thinking, if I'm not big into OCing, maybe the NH-U9S might be OK. Worthwhile upgrade from the stock cooler, yes?

Busch.

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#2910541 - 02/18/18 06:51 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Worthwhile upgrade from the stock cooler, yes?

Busch.


I would think so. I just use the biggest one available since its compatible with the 1151 board and the price difference is negligible. I've been using the D14 for my current build which I believe is slightly smaller than the D15. It is extremely quiet and I haven't given it a second thought since installation 6 years ago.

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#2910543 - 02/18/18 06:58 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7946
Loc: Ghost Planet
My hesitation with overclocking is I don't want to be second-guessing every time I have a glitch or crash. With the i7-8700, I'll have 3x the processing of my current Mac Pro which seems like plenty. And if the i9s get down into the same price/core as the i7s, then maybe an upgrade if I need it.

Busch.

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#2910545 - 02/18/18 07:17 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
I'm going to start with no OC, see how Diva does as well as a couple of my slightly problematic soft synths at the lowest ASIO buffer setting (32). If I hear any audio pops then I'll start to bump the CPU up to see if OC helps. OC does help Diva with my current build. I don't mess with all the fine tuning crap that the ASUS BIOS gives you access to; just the CPU speed and memory speed. I back it off until there are absolutely no crashes. But if everything is performing well at base frequency then no need to OC. Running cooler is always better in the long run.

You will want to check your temps over the first couple of weeks. I don't think about after that it unless I'm making some change. I do keep the temp alarms enabled however.

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#2910618 - 02/19/18 06:48 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Husker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/07/16
Posts: 160
Loc: Alabama
One small suggestion - if you do start to do a bit of OC, it is worthwhile to adjust the VCORE parameters manually. The newer Asus ROG boards (I just built one with a Maximus Hero VII) provide more voltages than are necessary in their built in 4.2/4/5/6 overclocks.

As you said, less is more.
_________________________
Roland FA-08 - Moog Slim Phatty - Nord A1R - Integra 7
Cubase Pro on Homebuilt PC / Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 2nd Gen / Motu Midi Express XT USB

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#2910626 - 02/19/18 07:23 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Husker]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Just did a quick Google on VCORE. Will definitely keep this in mind when i get to the point of OC. Just realizing all the stuff I have to do before I even get close to evaluating the audio performance. One thing in my quick read; it seems that this voltage is tied to Speed Stepping. Sounds like an Olympic sport and also something I always disable as I don't want the CPU throttling for audio applications. But thanks Michael - I'll definitely research this more.

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#2910640 - 02/19/18 08:14 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Theo Verelst Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 3930
If you OC, it's best to have a CPU that is unleashed, or you're bound to get problems, unless it's for fun or gaming of course. Getting a startup problem or a blue screen is a no-go completely for me, I'd like a machine to never err, unless it's a software error. OC-ing an officially over-clockable CPU for instance within XMP parameter ranges is cool, other than that, I have doubts.

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#2910651 - 02/19/18 08:56 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Theo Verelst]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
I completely agree Theo. Thanks!
thu

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#2910675 - 02/19/18 10:25 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7946
Loc: Ghost Planet
That i7-8700K keeps dropping in price in my Amazon cart. $339. What an amazing value.

Busch.

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#2910700 - 02/19/18 11:45 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
That i7-8700K keeps dropping in price in my Amazon cart. $339. What an amazing value.

Busch.


Cool - and thanks! Just got Newegg to kick back the $20 difference. Will put it towards my wife's first Theremin lesson. roll

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#2910704 - 02/19/18 11:58 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6166
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Iíve a gigabyte motherboard with a socket that holds an Intel i5 4670k. Itís the best I could afford at he time. The i7 was over double the price. I guess this is an 1150 socket. This machine runs OSX (Logic and ProTools) only. Integrated graphics is fine. Whatís the fastest processor I can stick in this motherboard right now? Would it crunch audio significantly better than what I have now?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2910707 - 02/19/18 12:20 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
The only upgrade I've ever done following initial build is adding more memory. I buy fairly high end stuff with the hope of it serving me longer without issues. I've been satisfied thus far as this is the 3rd build (for me) in about 9 years. And my wife will get my current PC with a 6 core 3930 CPU with at least 1 SSDs and 32G RAM - way overkill for what she does. Changing CPUs may or may not present compatibility issues with your other components. Do your research carefully.


Edited by Markyboard (02/19/18 01:24 PM)

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#2910725 - 02/19/18 01:19 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Throbert Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Iíve a gigabyte motherboard with a socket that holds an Intel i5 4670k. Itís the best I could afford at he time. The i7 was over double the price. I guess this is an 1150 socket. This machine runs OSX (Logic and ProTools) only. Integrated graphics is fine. Whatís the fastest processor I can stick in this motherboard right now? Would it crunch audio significantly better than what I have now?
Probably an Intel - Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core, but I don't think Intel produces
them any more so they're running from about $350 to $450 and you can find them on
ebay for about $250. Specs
_________________________
Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM RPX, HX3 module/
Drawbar controller, Lynx Aurora 8/AES16e, MSI Z97 MPower/
4790K, OP-X PRO-II, Pianotec, Komplete 5.
I need a UAD quad and an IEM rig. More VIs

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#2910732 - 02/19/18 02:03 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
emenelton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/07/06
Posts: 84


Cool - and thanks! Just got Newegg to kick back the $20 difference. Will put it towards my wife's first Theremin lesson. roll

I use the NH-D15S
I don't know if you hsve decided not to use the big one or not but I can attest to much quieter and cooler on a number of the builds I've done with the big coolers.
This one also is asymmetrical in shape. That pulls it away from the video card and sets it so the fan blows from the front to the back - inside the case.
Avoid the AXi line of Corsair PSU's also.

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#2910746 - 02/19/18 03:02 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: emenelton]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Yup- going with the big D15S. Hopefully it fits in the full tower case I'm getting. Not sure this would fit in a mid tower. Thanks for your insight emenelton.

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#2910762 - 02/19/18 04:34 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Throbert]
hardware Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1305
Loc: Macau
Originally Posted By: Throbert
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Iíve a gigabyte motherboard with a socket that holds an Intel i5 4670k. Itís the best I could afford at he time. The i7 was over double the price. I guess this is an 1150 socket. This machine runs OSX (Logic and ProTools) only. Integrated graphics is fine. Whatís the fastest processor I can stick in this motherboard right now? Would it crunch audio significantly better than what I have now?
Probably an Intel - Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core, but I don't think Intel produces
them any more so they're running from about $350 to $450 and you can find them on
ebay for about $250. Specs


I bought 4 x i7 4790k CPUs last Spring.
2 x spares and 2 x separate live rigs.
Iím good for years to come as all other parts are stocked.

You can buy the i7 4790k at most MicroCenter stores but only walk in only.
There might be some still. I paid 250 each.
The newer CPUs are nice but single core performance has not really improved much.
And I do not want Windows 10 yet.

I also use the i7 5775C CPU that would fit your Gigabyte Mobo.
Those are pricier but the best audio CPU Ihave.
Itís got 128MB Cache for GFX.
Use a discrete GFX Card then that Cache becomes usable for your audio.
It really kicks ass for synths locked to a single core, and can take all polyphony you throw at it.

If you can find one new for under 400 itís worth every penny.
_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic

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#2910773 - 02/19/18 05:07 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: hardware]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6166
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Thanks, guys. Helpful.
Eventually Iíll swap the motherboard and processor in one go.
But itís running so well now with just the case fans and stock intel heat sync that came with processor. Very quiet.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2910801 - 02/19/18 07:18 PM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: hardware]
Throbert Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 845
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: hardware

I bought 4 x i7 4790k CPUs last Spring.
2 x spares and 2 x separate live rigs.
Iím good for years to come as all other parts are stocked.

You can buy the i7 4790k at most MicroCenter stores but only walk in only.
There might be some still. I paid 250 each.
The newer CPUs are nice but single core performance has not really improved much.
And I do not want Windows 10 yet.

I also use the i7 5775C CPU that would fit your Gigabyte Mobo.
Those are pricier but the best audio CPU Ihave.
Itís got 128MB Cache for GFX.
Use a discrete GFX Card then that Cache becomes usable for your audio.
It really kicks ass for synths locked to a single core, and can take all polyphony you throw at it.

If you can find one new for under 400 itís worth every penny.
Ha, bought my 4790K at MicroCenter as well, best deal at the time. Saw the 5775C
listed when looking earlier but the low base Ghz seemed disappointing. didn't pickup
on the Cache but thought that was why the low Ghz, Intel seems to always give and
take that way.
_________________________
Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM RPX, HX3 module/
Drawbar controller, Lynx Aurora 8/AES16e, MSI Z97 MPower/
4790K, OP-X PRO-II, Pianotec, Komplete 5.
I need a UAD quad and an IEM rig. More VIs

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#2910901 - 02/20/18 07:39 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Throbert]
hardware Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1305
Loc: Macau
Itís OCD to 3.8 with the Cache (RingBus) underclocked (or it BSODs) so itís as fast as my 4.4 k series, but runs cooler.
After my outdoor experience with 100% humidity & 110 degrees I took a builders advice on Supermicro/workstation rack design.
Smooth sailing at all events last summer.

_________________________
Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic

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#2914624 - 03/13/18 05:13 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: hardware]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
I'm finally done - YAY! Put my previously problematic soft-synths/VSTs to the test - here are some performance details for anyone interested:

Accoustic Samples Wurlie plug (UVI/Reaper) : previously giving occasional audio pops at buffer size of 32 and 64. Now absolutely nothing at 64 but still occasional pop at 32 if I pedal a whole lot of notes.

Scarbee Classic EP-88s plug (Kontact/Reaper): Previously unusable to me due to pedal release audio pops even at buffer setting of 256. Still get them at 32 but absolutely none at 64. Also found that running Kontact stand-alone at 32 works much better than through Reaper (makes sense), although with a pedal sustained glissando I can still get the pedal pop.

Diva plug (Reaper): l haven't been able to break it with buffer size 32. Even with the most aggressive quality settings and 16 note polyphony. Previously it worked pretty well but if pushed too hard it would choke.


Reaper
: Boot-up time is now about 40 sec. down from 65. I don't multi-track more than 2- 4 tracks at a time so no comparison here.

This build is near dead silent with nothing else in the room masking the noise. And I have yet to put the cover back on.

Over-Clocking makes no difference on anything. I had it up to close to 5GHz but since it adds nothing I've since disabled it. I'll save it for if/when needed. Also going to keep the buffer at 64. I'm learning to live with the extra 1.5ms latency freak.

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#2914634 - 03/13/18 06:42 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6166
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Hey, are you using motherboard audio with ASIO4ALL?
Or something better. There are some PCI cards or even USB3 or Thunderbolt interfaces that can potentially get you down to 32ms maybe.

Also, test in a host other than reaper or in standalone versions of the plugins and see if any better.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2914636 - 03/13/18 06:57 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hey, are you using motherboard audio with ASIO4ALL?
Or something better. There are some PCI cards or even USB3 or Thunderbolt interfaces that can potentially get you down to 32ms maybe.

Also, test in a host other than reaper or in standalone versions of the plugins and see if any better.


Thanks EJF. I use a RME PCIe audio card with ASIO. And yes - stand-alone apps work better - but not perfect at buffer size = 32. I'm in (or was) in test mode so trying to stress the various VSTs to see where the breaking point is. I'd like to hear from someone that has the soft synths I listed above that can overcome any audio pops at 32 samples (btw it's not ms wink ).

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#2914816 - 03/14/18 03:47 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2993
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
I'm finally done - YAY! Put my previously problematic soft-synths/VSTs to the test - here are some performance details for anyone interested:

Accoustic Samples Wurlie plug (UVI/Reaper) : previously giving occasional audio pops at buffer size of 32 and 64. Now absolutely nothing at 64 but still occasional pop at 32 if I pedal a whole lot of notes.

This build is near dead silent with nothing else in the room masking the noise. And I have yet to put the cover back on.

Over-Clocking makes no difference on anything. I had it up to close to 5GHz but since it adds nothing I've since disabled it. I'll save it for if/when needed. Also going to keep the buffer at 64. I'm learning to live with the extra 1.5ms latency freak.


Well acccepting that the following is not of much use to the OP I matched the settings to how my set up compared.

I loaded up an existing large concert in MainStage which is set to 44.1 kHz sample rate and reduced the I/O buffer to 32 samples. 3.5ms output latency MS tells me.

Loaded AS Wurlie and played block chords both hands pedalling sustain on and off while playing. No pops.

At 16 samples I get some muted pops. MS says 2.8ms output latency

No pops at 16 samples with Pianoteq grin .

Safety buffer off.

However the CPU meter said the 4 core i7 was into the yellow zone at both 32 and 16 samples.

Focusrite Scarlett Solo Gen 2 audio interface, core audio driver.

My conclusions are the hardware is up to running glitch free at 32 samples, the issues come down to how efficiently the VI, host or DAW, OS and audio drivers work together.
_________________________
MainStage | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"He helped me onto the bottom rung as a musician, from which, I might add, I never ascended" Glyn Johns - Sound Man

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#2914824 - 03/14/18 04:25 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markay]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
I didn't know about 16 samples as none of my hardware allows that setting. But I'm wondering if your 32 samples are equivalent to mine as Reaper shows an input/output latency of 0.7/1.5ms when set to 44.1K and 32 samples. At 64 samples it shows 1.5/2.2 ms.

Either way I do agree with your conclusions. And in case anyone thinks I'm concerned about a couple of ms no need. This is strictly an academic exercise for my understanding.


Edit: Correction to my Acoustic Samples Wurlie results: The audio pops are not related to the pedal use - they appear to be random but infrequent


Edited by Markyboard (03/14/18 04:30 AM)

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#2914837 - 03/14/18 05:37 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2993
Loc: Australia
I think the buffer samples are correct and the latency values are guesstimates.

The RTL and lower output values shown by MainStage, and Logic I suspect, are much lower than the RTL values calculated by Tafkat over at GS for the best RME interface.

To use an Aussie colloquialism I would tell Reaper it is dreaming with those latency estimates.

Either way I cannot feel or notice latency at 128 samples so it is all academic.
_________________________
MainStage | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"He helped me onto the bottom rung as a musician, from which, I might add, I never ascended" Glyn Johns - Sound Man

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#2914852 - 03/14/18 06:48 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markay]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
No doubt Mark. Btw I believe I run much faster then my timer indicates. I just have a very large sample buffer. coffee

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#2914857 - 03/14/18 07:02 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markay]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 3930
I rarely use windo's for anything but system maintenance, an occasional example program or parallel work while it's on for recording sat or cable TV, so it's been a long time I extensively used sequencers and other music software on it. There's an issue with the whole music software that has a slight but non-zero congruence with the general properties of the windows or mac OS: how does the software keep time (stamps) and organize the audio workload with respect to buffers.

I'm very drawn to the idea I used almost daily on Linux where audio buffers are an exact given, and preferably correctly time-stamped input is computed (in a parallel sense, probably) and inserted into output buffers correctly, i.e. with fixed delay.

Even though explicit size audio buffers with strict latency control might impose some considerably more delay's in the overall computation organization in the audio programs, the constancy of the buffer length and latency between key press and audio output is worth it, usually. Nothing as annoying, especially when so much attention goes to picking the right computer architecture, as "feeling" the software work fro complicated chords, or to have their virtual memory management mess up with certain types of music performance, instead of just delivering enough sample bandwidth (should be super easy) and making all the filters and virtual circuitry just work on time and with rock solid fixed delay.

Lately I've even become obsessed with making fast computers (as it so happens a I39-30k with a P9X79 mobo) produce audio paths that aren't even horrible to play at very large latency (though I don't particularly enjoy that even up to .1 seconds(!)) because the accuracy of the signal processing adds something, including sub-sample accuracy, that's at times more worth than zero latency.

Zero latency at the output of the DAC is hard. Most computer DACs, will, rightfully, have a form of filtering built in that exhibits a little delay. That's necessary because of the mathematics that underlie sampling theory, in some sense, therefor not really circumventable. So even though a single sample delay should be easy with CPU clocks in the Gigaherz range (1/44100 ~~ 0.022ms, 1/3GHz ~~ .00000033ms), there might be a part of a millisecond delay built in the DAC itself, apart from the signal path and busses in between the CPU and the DAC buffers.

I know from building me 1-sample (!) latency hardware DSP synth that it's good fun to have a DAC and digital signal path with fixed super-low delay, so I'd prefer it at a computer as well, but unfortunately the computations even on a modern CPU are usually done in a pipe-lined parallel fashion inside the CPU, which requires some buffer length to become efficient. And then there's the kernel that deals with the various programs and interrupt computation threads which isn't all too efficient in many cases.

T.

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#2914870 - 03/14/18 07:36 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Theo Verelst]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
It would be interesting to compare performance under Linux. I've never gone there before. While Reaper has a Linux version I don't believe most of these plugins do.

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#2914889 - 03/14/18 08:22 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: Markyboard]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7946
Loc: Ghost Planet
My build is done and has been up and running for several weeks. I added a second M.2 NVMe (1TB) for samples and use another SATA SSD for additional sample libraries. Man, this thing is awesome. My Geekbench multicore scores are about 24,000 no overclocking.

Of the three DAWs I have installed, Pro Tools 2018, Studio One and Ableton Live 10, Pro Tools is noticeably more efficient. The same plugins run with less CPU impact and they never seem to glitch. It doesn't seem to have those occasional 100% peaks, CPU usage is smooth. I know they were one of the last to move to 64-bits and had to rewrite everything due to their propriety hardware. Whatever they did, it's working.

These 6-core i7s are definitely in the sweet spot for price/performance. They run about $55/core vs. $100/core for i9s and, I believe, $200 for equivalent Xeons.

Busch.

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#2914941 - 03/14/18 11:34 AM Re: New PC Computer Build [Re: burningbusch]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5751
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Cool Bill. You didn't state what sample buffer size you're running at but I assume your more than happy with the performance. If you do by chance have the Scarbee Classic 88 plug I'd appreciate you seeing if you have any pedal pops at the lowest size sample buffer.

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