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Hammond SKX....new hammond board


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Hammond are more about evolution than revolution. It's probably too early in the XK5 product cycle to see that engine drip down to a cheaper model, even without the busbar simulation in the action.

 

As for Hammond incorporating the Vent, forget about it. That ship sailed long ago, as I understand the relationship (or lack of one) between Neo and H-S. They were approached, and weren't interested, I believe.

 

More on board memory and some proper, high quality non-organ voices might make things more interesting and give Nord a few sleepless nights. But I doubt that's going to happen, either, especially as there doesn't appear to be a single manual equivalent.

 

My instinct is that it's just a quick fix to keep up with the competition. I love my SK1, but I just found the SK2 too fiddly to use with a single set of drawbars. This answers at least one important criticism.

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Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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I agree, Aidan. Hammond is not going to use a competing technology for digital rotary sim; they already have the Leslie pedal, which I give much higher marks than many. Also, the rotary sim in the XK5 is very strong on its own; and that in the XK3c and XK1c was also quite good.

I've given up on the company producing another instrument with pitch-mod controls, or a new drawbar-based module. I've asked about both for several years, and it's just not the direction they're headed. If I wanted a Hammond that can also do MIDI control w/pitch-mod, I'd start looking for a used XK1/2/3/3c.

 

Hammond and Nord are really quite different, in terms of market. The only true cross-connection between the two companies is CD2 - SK2. And though Nord organs have come a long way, I still give Hammond the edge - widened a bit with the XK5 now in the equation.

 

If the SKX non-organ memory is expanded greatly, sample import/exchange is included, and functionality is expanded, then it could be a novel, two-manual competitor to the E5D. Otherwise it will be a more versatile version of the SK2, still doing what Hammond does best, tonewheel organ.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

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Also, the rotary sim in the XK5 is very strong on its own; and that in the XK3c and XK1c was also quite good.

The newest I've played is the SK1. I think the rotary effect itself is pretty nice... I think it falls off in emulating the sound of the leslie amp/cabinet and (especially) overdrive. I'd like to play one of their models with tubes some time.

 

 

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You may well be right, Aidan, that this will quite a limited update but, as I think was mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like a lot of effort to go to just to add the extra drawbar faders and not to update any of the internal sounds.

 

I could see them continuing to make the SK1 and SK2 and offering the SKX as a more premium product for those that want the updated sound of the XK5 but in a slightly cheaper, more compact and lighter package.

 

Although the XK5 hasnt been out that long, presumably Hammond would be keen to exploit the R&D they put into it with other products as soon as they can. And if they pitch it right price wise, they can avoid cannibalising either the XK5 or SK2 sales.

 

Cheers

 

John

Nord Electro 6D 61, Wurlitzer EP200A, Neo Mini Vent, EV ZLX12P, QSC CP8.

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I tried to communicate with HS about some things to try and evolve the SK1 into a Nord Killer. No interest shown.

 

Hopefully, theyve evolved the controller aspect of the SK1. As it is, that keeps the SK1 in the dark ages compared to every other keyboard with midi out there.

 

I'm a fan of the SK1. I love mine. I use them in EVERY gig, regardless how small the audience or rig. Most gigs are one board rigs, and its the SK1 Looking forward to seeing what theyve got.

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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I thought the SK midi capabilities were pretty good, at least compared to Nord's. You could map program changes and do bank select, which you can't do on the nord.

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I thought the SK midi capabilities were pretty good, at least compared to Nord's.

Depends on the Nord. SK's MIDI capabilities are far beyond Nord Electro, but not Stage.

 

But yes, SK MIDI controller functionality is good... with the main sticking point being the lack of pitch/mod wheels.

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My guess is that the SKx is going to be excellent. A top level player. There would be no purpose in them simply doing a warm up of the SK2. The competition is tough with some great stage keyboards out there. I hope that HS would have been intelligent enough a couple years ago when they started developing the SKx to know all that.

 

I guess that it will have much better control layout than the SK2, with an organ based on the XK5 but without the elaborate keyclick setup of the XK5.

 

I think that the EVs will be much improved. The technology has made huge leaps since the SK2 was released. All of the competitors have EV's that are light years ahead of the SK2. The SKx will have very good EV's.

 

This is going to be a killer instrument. I have already placed my order.

Thomas Shea

Nebraska

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I thought the SK midi capabilities were pretty good, at least compared to Nord's. You could map program changes and do bank select, which you can't do on the nord.

 

Um....maybe not on the Electro, but the Stage gave you bank and program select, as well as a USEABLE and PROGRAMMABLE set of controls, independent on each panel. The SK....beyond the Program/Bank select, all zones are forced to use the same expression pedal curves, which sucks.

 

Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.
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I think that the EVs will be much improved. The technology has made huge leaps since the SK2 was released. All of the competitors have EV's that are light years ahead of the SK2. The SKx will have very good EV's.

 

Actually, the technology was already present and ready when Hammond released the original SKs but Nord had the leap on them in terms of the vast amount of work and investment they'd put in to their piano and sample libraries.

 

In retrospect, the extra voices feature was a bit of a half-assed attempt to move in on Nord's territory, and in the intervening years, they've spent almost zero time and investment expanding or improving the library (reed organ, handbell, anybody?). During the same period, Nord has released several new grand pianos alone.

 

It could be, of course, that the amount of memory in the SKs just wasn't sufficient for decent size samples I'm not sure how much memory there is on an SK but I'm guessing the fact that Hammond never mentions it means it's negligible compared with its Scandinavian counterpart.

 

Of course, it could be that the reason Hammond hasn't bothered much with the current SK library is that it realised its limitations and decided to work on a new library for a more capacious successor (the SKX?). Let's hope so.

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Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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I am very interested in seeing where they land on this.

 

I went through a long and careful evaluation to pick a dual manual organ for gigging and landed on picking the Viscount Legend Live.

 

If there was an option such as the Hammond SKX (or at least what I think it will be - multi drawbar sets, XK5 sound, improved leslie sim from the SK2 and extra sounds that are more competitive with Nord or Gemini) then I think it's potentially a winner.

 

I am also keeping my eye open on a next generation Mojo/Gemini next year.

 

The Viscount Legend Live was the right choice in this category for my needs in 2017. The DMC-122/Gemini wasn't quite the right thing for me.

 

I'm excited to see the head to head in this category between HS and Crumar. I think Nord has been content to rest on the C2D and isn't going to play in the dual manual with extra voices battleground.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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I thought the SK midi capabilities were pretty good, at least compared to Nord's. You could map program changes and do bank select, which you can't do on the nord.

 

Um....maybe not on the Electro, but the Stage gave you bank and program select, as well as a USEABLE and PROGRAMMABLE set of controls, independent on each panel. The SK....beyond the Program/Bank select, all zones are forced to use the same expression pedal curves, which sucks.

 

Yes, I was comparing the Electro and C1/C2 since those boards are what the SK is going up against. The Stage is in a different category.

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I think that the EVs will be much improved. The technology has made huge leaps since the SK2 was released. All of the competitors have EV's that are light years ahead of the SK2. The SKx will have very good EV's.

 

Actually, the technology was already present and ready when Hammond released the original SKs but Nord had the leap on them in terms of the vast amount of work and investment they'd put in to their piano and sample libraries.

 

In retrospect, the extra voices feature was a bit of a half-assed attempt to move in on Nord's territory, and in the intervening years, they've spent almost zero time and investment expanding or improving the library (reed organ, handbell, anybody?). During the same period, Nord has released several new grand pianos alone.

 

It could be, of course, that the amount of memory in the SKs just wasn't sufficient for decent size samples I'm not sure how much memory there is on an SK but I'm guessing the fact that Hammond never mentions it means it's negligible compared with its Scandinavian counterpart.

 

Of course, it could be that the reason Hammond hasn't bothered much with the current SK library is that it realised its limitations and decided to work on a new library for a more capacious successor (the SKX?). Let's hope so.

 

I can't remember the amount, but I remember having to delete librararies to install others, and they were not that large.

Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1

Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6

www.bksband.com

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In retrospect, the extra voices feature was a bit of a half-assed attempt to move in on Nord's territory, and in the intervening years, they've spent almost zero time and investment expanding or improving the library (reed organ, handbell, anybody?). During the same period, Nord has released several new grand pianos alone.

 

It could be, of course, that the amount of memory in the SKs just wasn't sufficient for decent size samples I'm not sure how much memory there is on an SK but I'm guessing the fact that Hammond never mentions it means it's negligible compared with its Scandinavian counterpart.

 

Of course, it could be that the reason Hammond hasn't bothered much with the current SK library is that it realised its limitations and decided to work on a new library for a more capacious successor (the SKX?). Let's hope so.

 

Absolutely. I use a few of the SK2 EV's but there's plenty on there I wish I could swap out for something more useful - like that awful "jet noise" synth. And unless I'm mistaken you have to delete the whole EV group, you can't switch out individual ones?

Remember - you can make a record without an organ on it, but it won't be as good

 

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I think that the EVs will be much improved. The technology has made huge leaps since the SK2 was released. All of the competitors have EV's that are light years ahead of the SK2. The SKx will have very good EV's.

 

Actually, the technology was already present and ready when Hammond released the original SKs

Yup. Apart from sheer capacity, sample playback technology has changed very little since, well, arguably the Korg M1 (which I think was the first mainstream 16-bit implementation). For the most part, rewritable "ROM" hasn't changed much since the Electro 3 either, except that NOR flash has gotten cheaper (so it's been more practical to offer more of it), though Korg and Kurzweil have employed some innovations allowing them to support higher capacities.

 

Probably the biggest change has been some more activity in the modeling arena. But I think modeling does not automatically transfer to competitive products the way sampling did. That is, as memory/storage got cheaper and processors got more powerful, everyone doing sampling could improve their products in roughly comparable ways (i.e. they could employ bigger sample sets, increase polyphony, support more simultaneous effects). But the fact that Korg has all those modeling engines in the Kronos, or Roland has their SuperNatural (and ACB) technologies, or Guido does all his modeling stuff for Crumar/GSI, doesn't mean that everyone else suddenly knows how to do great modeling, which is really something of a catch-all term for all kinds of different things that (unlike sampling) can't be easily copied. Put differently, half of us on this board can probably do a passable job at sampling our own sounds; relatively speaking, there's probably only a handful of people in the world who could do a decent job at modeling the sound of an acoustic instrument, and every programmer/company's approach is probably largely unique.

 

On a tangent of a tangent, I'm kind of surprised that Yamaha doesn't do any instrument modeling these days, as they were something of a pioneer (i.e. VL1).

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On a tangent of a tangent, I'm kind of surprised that Yamaha doesn't do any instrument modeling these days, as they were something of a pioneer (i.e. VL1).

 

NAMM is next week. Maybe they will surprise us. :idk

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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I've been scratching my head trying to figure out what "EV" stands for, but the follow-up replies haven't answered with any clues.

 

My first guess was "electronic vibrato", but now that doesn't make sense for the comments that followed.

 

EDIT: Oh, I see some discussion regarding SOUNDS, so I guess it stands for "Extra Voices"? I am not aware of anyone abbreviating that as "EV" until this week.

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Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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As for Hammond incorporating the Vent, forget about it. That ship sailed long ago, as I understand the relationship (or lack of one) between Neo and H-S. They were approached, and weren't interested, I believe.

 

I agree, no company should allow itself to be dependent on another. Refer to Diversi and the company in Missouri that thought they had deals with the guy in Italy. How did that work out for them?

 

More on board memory and some proper, high quality non-organ voices might make things more interesting and give Nord a few sleepless nights. But I doubt that's going to happen, either, especially as there doesn't appear to be a single manual equivalent.

 

The way it was explained to me was that originally the SK's were intended to be organ's with a few vintage type keyboards - AP, EP, Wurly and Rhodes. After the product hardware was designed and ready to go into production marketing came in and said " Hey, you know what would be great? Adding a bunch of other instruments." So they did what they could without going back to the drawboard.

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EDIT: Oh, I see some discussion regarding SOUNDS, so I guess it stands for "Extra Voices"? I am not aware of anyone abbreviating that as "EV" until this week.

I think teashea made it up. ;-) But "extravoices" is specifically what Hammond calls the non-organ voices in the SK series, so to people who are familiar with SK jargon, it was clear from context. But if you didn't know that, yeah, I could see it being a head-scratcher.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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It's a little hard to tell due to how bad the mix is (the guitar sounds awful and keeps clipping as well as causing bad bump frequencies that muddy the organ sound), but after two listens at high resolution, I'm pretty confident this new organ is a step or two beyond the XK-1c across-the-board. Whether that means it borrows from the XK-5 is hard to tell though.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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Most interesting for what it doesn't say. No mention of any sonic improvements at all, just improved features extra drawbars, ability to split and layer two extra voices, more extra voice memory, more banks of favorites, and an 11-pin jack. Aidan, looks like you were right and I was wrong.

 

 

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