Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2901540 - 01/12/18 05:34 AM Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms
BbAltered Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 588
I place in a seven-piece soul band. The rhythm section consists of myself on keys, a guitarist, a bassist, and a drummer. We suffer from a persistent and frequent problem: we speed up mid tempo material. Every time we play a mid tempo funk song (Superstition; Shakey Ground, etc), it starts at a mid tempo and then increases in tempo to something much faster and decidedly not funky (IMO). Sometimes the problem is the song is started too fast, but mostly we speed up.

I like to hear suggestions about how to get this rhythm section to play more solidly and reliably.

This topic has come up in the past for us. Typically, if the issue is brought up, everyone will agree we need to maintain groove. And we can maintain tempo in the practice room, but will be back to speeding up mid-tempo songs when we play them at a gig.

As I see (or hear) it, the problem is due to the very common tendency for humans to play faster when they play louder: everyone in our rhythm section is susceptible to this. The song Superstition is a perfect example: the drummer and I start it a a groovy mid-tempo, and the song precedes nicely. The horns enter in the middle of every verse, and at that point, everyone in the rhythm section wants to play a little louder, and consequently the tempo increases dramatically right in the middle of the first verse. Every time! This human tendency to play faster when trying to be louder is made worse by a) lack of any formal musical training for some in the rhythm section; and b) an "it's all about me" mindset from too many ("of course I should play louder here: it's all about me").

The problem does not occur during slow songs, which are typically played quieter than the mid-tempo funky numbers. The problem is not as severe in the practice room - we'll play a song at practice at a stable tempo, and everyone goes "problem solved" - until we do it live on stage.

It is not clear to me that everyone in the rhythm section hears the tempo changes, tho' occasionally I hear the bassist or drummer talking between themselves about the need to keep steady tempos.

I think this is a problem of group behavior, not any single player's "fault". I think any fix has to be a group fix: something everyone in the rhythm section does or works on.

So how do I address this to the group? How do I get others to understand/appreciate that we persistently speed up tempos? Is there a way to get a group to play more solidly? We thoughts and suggestions appreciated.
_________________________
J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier
The collected works of Scott Joplin
Ray Charles Genius plus Soul
Charlie Parker Omnibook
Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life
Weather Report Mr. Gone

Top
KC Island
#2901544 - 01/12/18 06:13 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: BbAltered]
mdenriet Offline
Member

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 7
Do you practice with another (sound)system, then the one you use on stage? Try to create a setup in the practice room, that easily translates to a live gig.

We started rehearsing with inears and took the system to gigs also. It was a big difference. Volumes went down... and we tried to create musical space for the others. If you fighting to hear yourself on stage , your not paying attention to tempo and what the others are playing. For a 7 piece band a second hand jamhub tourbus would be ideal. Everyone can control their own mix. cu Marcel

Top
#2901546 - 01/12/18 06:23 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: BbAltered]
PianoMan51 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 1018
Loc: Cabin In The Woods
Too funny! I play in a jazz sextet, and every once and a while we find ourselves in a situation that requires a few dance tunes. I'll start out Superstition, on clav, absolutely in time with the original Stevie Wonder recording. And the band members will look over at me with a 'what's the matter with you?' look. And each time we transition to a new section the tempo takes off, and then I pull things back when the original clav line comes back in. And the worst is when I look over at the bass player who is speeding this thing up and up. He's grinning like a fool. 'Look how much fun we're having!'

This is a band that is rock steady when we swing. What's going on?

I'm thinking that this is an issue of either misunderstanding or lack of respect for the original genre. For me, I'm an old veteran of 70's dance clubs. (Discos). For me this is actually very serious music to play. It takes constant intent to stay in a pocket. You have to love it, or at least respect it. When I start out Superstition I'm stepping into Stevie's shoes. I want the tempo and the vibe to be like the Rock of Gibraltar. I want the song's meaning and the sexual energy of the dancers to be served with respect.

For my band mates, I think they view funk as 'fun and light-spirited'. Sure we sped up. Sure we overplayed our parts. Sure we're acting a little silly. THIS IS FUN!

(IMHO it's actually a travesty, but few recognize it.)

I don't have a solution. Be interested to read other responses.

Top
#2901550 - 01/12/18 06:41 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: PianoMan51]
Bobadecay Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 5908
Loc: San Diego / Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: BbAltered
So how do I address this to the group? How do I get others to understand/appreciate that we persistently speed up tempos?


Have you filmed/recorded yourselves to see who is the culprit? Usually it's pretty obvious. And not all acceleration of tempo is bad, though you should be able to control it.
_________________________
Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

Top
#2901551 - 01/12/18 06:43 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: BbAltered]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5709
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: BbAltered
I place in a seven-piece soul band. The rhythm section consists of myself on keys, a guitarist, a bassist, and a drummer. We suffer from a persistent and frequent problem: we speed up mid tempo material. Every time we play a mid tempo funk song (Superstition; Shakey Ground, etc), it starts at a mid tempo and then increases in tempo to something much faster and decidedly not funky (IMO). Sometimes the problem is the song is started too fast, but mostly we speed up.

I like to hear suggestions about how to get this rhythm section to play more solidly and reliably.

This topic has come up in the past for us. Typically, if the issue is brought up, everyone will agree we need to maintain groove. And we can maintain tempo in the practice room, but will be back to speeding up mid-tempo songs when we play them at a gig.

As I see (or hear) it, the problem is due to the very common tendency for humans to play faster when they play louder: everyone in our rhythm section is susceptible to this. The song Superstition is a perfect example: the drummer and I start it a a groovy mid-tempo, and the song precedes nicely. The horns enter in the middle of every verse, and at that point, everyone in the rhythm section wants to play a little louder, and consequently the tempo increases dramatically right in the middle of the first verse. Every time! This human tendency to play faster when trying to be louder is made worse by a) lack of any formal musical training for some in the rhythm section; and b) an "it's all about me" mindset from too many ("of course I should play louder here: it's all about me").

The problem does not occur during slow songs, which are typically played quieter than the mid-tempo funky numbers. The problem is not as severe in the practice room - we'll play a song at practice at a stable tempo, and everyone goes "problem solved" - until we do it live on stage.

It is not clear to me that everyone in the rhythm section hears the tempo changes, tho' occasionally I hear the bassist or drummer talking between themselves about the need to keep steady tempos.

I think this is a problem of group behavior, not any single player's "fault". I think any fix has to be a group fix: something everyone in the rhythm section does or works on.

So how do I address this to the group? How do I get others to understand/appreciate that we persistently speed up tempos? Is there a way to get a group to play more solidly? We thoughts and suggestions appreciated.


I am not as careful about the tempo cause as you are. Its the drummers job to establish and keep the tempo. Your bass player simply matches or plays off the bass drum.

Not complicated. If your drummer/bass player can't improve, something has to go.

And its not the trumpet player or the guy on keys.
_________________________
Think Big or go home

Top
#2901553 - 01/12/18 06:48 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: GregC]
David Loving Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 5042
Loc: Texas
Isn't there a thread on using a click track? http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads..._a_click#UNREAD


Edited by David Loving (01/12/18 06:57 AM)
_________________________
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Top
#2901554 - 01/12/18 06:51 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: David Loving]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 286
Loc: California
Drummer/bassist problem? If they hate metronomes, there’s probably a reason.
_________________________
Kawai KG-2C, Nord Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager, Some Slim Phatties, Roland Lucina, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3

Top
#2901562 - 01/12/18 06:58 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: BbAltered]
The Ghastly MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 5217
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: BbAltered
I like to hear suggestions about how to get this rhythm section to play more solidly and reliably.


Recording yourselves can be a great education.

If you want to firm up the rhythm section, then teach them to dance while they are playing.

Not kidding. Watch every good rhythm section and you'll see that their body is in motion - they're dancing on the drum stool, they're dancing while playing guitar, they're dancing while playing latin percussion.

It's more about the motion. That's how they keep the groove. That's how you minimize train wrecks. Although I will admit that if you're not used to playing funk then it can be harder to play. It's an "acquired taste".

I've worked with players who were hopeless in keeping the tempo. When they played they were as stiff as an oak tree.

Top
#2901621 - 01/12/18 10:08 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: The Ghastly MC]
Sven Golly Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
10k Club

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 12711
Loc: Toronto, ON
Slap this on the drummer's snare:


Beat Bug

You can even get a second unit to link to this, and have that facing the band, or the bassist, or the person with the taser that you hire to nail someone randomly if the BPM shifts more than 5 bpm during a song. cop
_________________________
"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."

Top
#2901622 - 01/12/18 10:18 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Sven Golly]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5709
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Slap [URL.jpg[/IMG]
Beat Bug

You can even get a second unit to link to this, and have that facing the band, or the bassist, or the person with the taser that you hire to nail someone randomly if the BPM shifts more than 5 bpm during a song. cop


A taser sounds like a decent motivator.

Or you can cut off the drummers beer supply.

he probably thinks drinking a lot of beer helps his performance wink
_________________________
Think Big or go home

Top
#2901624 - 01/12/18 10:22 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Sven Golly]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5701
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
I don't know if this helps at all, but in my experience the most solid grooving drummers are funk guys who can do jazz, not jazz guys who can do funk. Most of the guys with a deep jazz background don't have nearly the discipline for locking in, even if they are phenomenal, sensitive players with big ears in every other regard.

That is of course with the big caveat that once you get up to a certain level of big league cats (like, say, Jason Lewis here in the Bay Area), all that becomes academic. That guy (and guys like him) are solid on the one not matter how intricate the stuff gets.

IMHO, both drums and bass are responsible for this. It sounds like you're being very generous and kind with the "we're all to blame" - but at the end of the day, this is drummer and bass player's role to establish the groove in this genre of music. Either they're groovy wet and sexy, or they're not.

How you improve this is, well, a series of options and alternatives. It sounds like "get a better drummer and bass player" wouldn't be your first choice. My humble suggestion is that until drums and bass take ownership that it really is THEM, not the rest of the rhythm section, it's going to be an uphill climb. But IMHO they've gotta take personal ownership to grow in this area personally, as musos, which of course can be improved with focused practice and discipline over time.

Personally, I used to be a "Russian", not "Draggin'", until I got immersed in our local funk scene and learned to relax, breathe and use my ears first to feel the sexy. I know time can be improved in this genre. But I felt like I had to do it myself, and until I was ready to look in the mirror and be honest with myself that I needed to improve, well, nothing was really go to move forward in this area.

And then of course there's that taser option.
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

Top
#2901625 - 01/12/18 10:22 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: GregC]
Clawback Online   happy
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3591
Loc: Victoria BC, Canada
I'm still trying to imagine a 7 piece band with groove issues.

Seems to me no one deserves a horn section until the bass player gets it together.


Edited by drawback (01/12/18 10:24 AM)
_________________________
SL88 Studio | UVI & NI | Mojo61+61B | Korg Module

Top
#2901628 - 01/12/18 10:25 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Clawback]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5701
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
As Clint famously said in "Unforgiven" (before he blew Gene's head off with the shotgun),

"Deserves got nothin' to do with it"
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

Top
#2901629 - 01/12/18 10:27 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: timwat]
Jazzmammal Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 1892
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Yep, it simply boils down to the quality of the players. The OP's band mates are simply not good enough. Either replace them or live with it.

Bob

Top
#2901632 - 01/12/18 10:35 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Jazzmammal]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5709
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
there is a band tru-ism that roughly is: : if the drummer is not very good. or can't keep time, the band will sound sucky

I think a translation is no band member can compensate for a below average drummer.
_________________________
Think Big or go home

Top
#2901636 - 01/12/18 10:43 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Jazzmammal]
MaskOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 3551
Loc: California
Echoing most others: "groove" isn't something you "agree" to do. You do it or don't. It just might be the wrong rhythm section for that kind of music.

Since implicit in your question--I believe--is the fact that you are not going to replace your rhythm section, one option might be to rehearse those mid-tempo songs SLOWER than normal, until your bassist and drummer can find the pocket back at that tempo, and then gradually bring it up to performance speed. Perhaps that way they won't hear space in the groove as "empty space" but as part of the pattern/feel, and won't keep pushing it to a shuffle. (Or worse, that samba-disco thing that non-funk drummers think funk drummers are supposed to do!)

On a side note: I personally always tend to start "Superstition" slower than drummers like to play it, when it's just me on the intro. I love it to grind a bit against the back of the pulse, at least for the intro. It might be a bit of cross-pollination from "Higher Ground," which does lay way back, or just might be a personal preference for that intro. But there is no doubt, that song can slog terribly if it doesn't find the sweet spot pretty quick.

Finally, as bobedoshe says, there is nothing wrong with tempo variation in live performance. In fact, if you're doing it right, you SHOULD vary. the trick is to make sure you're doing it because the song took you there, and not vice versa. If your guys aren't up to that, maybe drop the mid-tempo tunes altogether, or specifically give them a spin that puts them into everyone's mutual comfort zone.
_________________________
"

Top
#2901644 - 01/12/18 11:08 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: MaskOfInsects]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5709
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
E

Finally, as bobedoshe says, there is nothing wrong with tempo variation in live performance. In fact, if you're doing it right, you SHOULD vary. the trick is to make sure you're doing it because the song took you there, and not vice versa. If your guys aren't up to that, maybe drop the mid-tempo tunes altogether, or specifically give them a spin that puts them into everyone's mutual comfort zone.



Maybe you are sliding off topic ? Sure, tempo variation in a song should be deliberate, coordinated or simply 'tight '.

An obvious tempo change is an excellent musical device. Its a change in the musical dynamics of a song.

The original post was that tempo was not that. Just to clarify.
_________________________
Think Big or go home

Top
#2901648 - 01/12/18 11:15 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: MaskOfInsects]
harmonizer Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 801
Loc: NJ, USA
We used to have a drummer who would rush, and a bassist who was not a strong enough player to hold the drummer in check. We never totally fixed the problem with our old lineup, but it did help a lot to rehearse with a metronome blaring into our stage monitors. And when we did this, it caused us to rush less even when the metronome was turned off, and even at next week's rehearsal (when we did not use the metronome at the next rehearsal).

You may be surprised at exactly when the rushing is taking place.

And some in your band may hate playing along with the loud click.

Top
#2901656 - 01/12/18 11:56 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: GregC]
area51recording Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1967
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Originally Posted By: GregC
there is a band tru-ism that roughly is: : if the drummer is not very good. or can't keep time, the band will sound sucky

I think a translation is no band member can compensate for a below average drummer.


This, right here. I play in one band where the drummer is......otay, but cannot play a shuffle to save his mortal soul (I find this to be kind of a dividing line between good and suck drummers, ie, their ability to swing/shuffle with a good feel).....in that particular band we try to avoid the kind of material that exposes this weakness, by mutual agreement. Thank the lord its not a blues band....

Top
#2901657 - 01/12/18 11:57 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: The Ghastly MC]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9671
Loc: Wash DC Area
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
If you want to firm up the rhythm section, then teach them to dance while they are playing.

Bingo. Especially when it comes to playing funk/soul music which by design is meant to groove and move something.

A band of stiff musicians is not funky. The movements can be subtle. We aren't talking about Soul Brother #1 dancing.

Also, no amount of weird, constipated facial expressions makes a musician funky either. laugh cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2901668 - 01/12/18 12:58 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: ProfD]
matted stump Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16183
Originally Posted By: ProfD
[quote=The Real MC]I
A band of stiff musicians is not funky. The movements can be subtle. We aren't talking about Soul Brother #1 dancing.


Unless you are Verdine White. wink
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

Top
#2901676 - 01/12/18 01:50 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: ProfD]
poserp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 212
Originally Posted By: ProfD
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
If you want to firm up the rhythm section, then teach them to dance while they are playing.

Bingo. Especially when it comes to playing funk/soul music which by design is meant to groove and move something.

A band of stiff musicians is not funky. The movements can be subtle. We aren't talking about Soul Brother #1 dancing.

Also, no amount of weird, constipated facial expressions makes a musician funky either. laugh cool


Get everyone together and watch this. Mr Horton goes over body movement, among other things:



Edited by poserp (01/12/18 01:50 PM)
_________________________
My music http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/Pk12

My Soundware (Kurzweil PC3)http://pksoundware.blogspot.com/

My Kurzweil PC3 Tutorials http://www.youtube.com/user/poserp.

Top
#2901681 - 01/12/18 02:22 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: poserp]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9671
Loc: Wash DC Area
Originally Posted By: poserp
Get everyone together and watch this. Mr Horton goes over body movement, among other things:

Excellent recommendation for all musicians interested in funk and/or keeping time in general. thu cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2901686 - 01/12/18 02:55 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: ProfD]
poserp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 212
...And follow with this quickie (there's another with Clyde that's fun too). This really opened my ears to all the fun things one can do with cymbals (and the rest of the kit) to create a groove. I'd say 99.9% of drummers I've heard don't do this, but I guess that's the reason why these guys are great:



EDIT: This is the one for Clyde:





Edited by poserp (01/12/18 02:57 PM)
_________________________
My music http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/Pk12

My Soundware (Kurzweil PC3)http://pksoundware.blogspot.com/

My Kurzweil PC3 Tutorials http://www.youtube.com/user/poserp.

Top
#2901688 - 01/12/18 03:32 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: poserp]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5945
Hey bass player and drummer: don’f rush... keep it up and you will be replaced.
_________________________
Mojo 61 organ, Casio PX-360, 2 EV SxA360 speakers, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano. Epiphone Casino, Fender Telecaster, Strat, Beatle Bass.

Top
#2901696 - 01/12/18 04:44 PM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: Jazz+]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5709
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Hey bass player and drummer: don’f rush... keep it up and you will be replaced.


I know this is heresy- Kronos drum track + Karma drums kick serious butt. Of course
its for home studio songs, not for the gigging keyboardist.

I am tempted to try out my virtual percussion section in the real world one day.


Edited by GregC (01/12/18 04:44 PM)
_________________________
Think Big or go home

Top
#2901755 - 01/13/18 04:00 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: PianoMan51]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7025
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: PianoMan51
Too funny! I play in a jazz sextet, and every once and a while we find ourselves in a situation that requires a few dance tunes. I'll start out Superstition, on clav, absolutely in time with the original Stevie Wonder recording. And the band members will look over at me with a 'what's the matter with you?' look. And each time we transition to a new section the tempo takes off, and then I pull things back when the original clav line comes back in. And the worst is when I look over at the bass player who is speeding this thing up and up. He's grinning like a fool. 'Look how much fun we're having!'

This is a band that is rock steady when we swing. What's going on?

I'm thinking that this is an issue of either misunderstanding or lack of respect for the original genre. For me, I'm an old veteran of 70's dance clubs. (Discos). For me this is actually very serious music to play. It takes constant intent to stay in a pocket. You have to love it, or at least respect it. When I start out Superstition I'm stepping into Stevie's shoes. I want the tempo and the vibe to be like the Rock of Gibraltar. I want the song's meaning and the sexual energy of the dancers to be served with respect.

For my band mates, I think they view funk as 'fun and light-spirited'. Sure we sped up. Sure we overplayed our parts. Sure we're acting a little silly. THIS IS FUN!

(IMHO it's actually a travesty, but few recognize it.)

I don't have a solution. Be interested to read other responses.



I think I like you.
_________________________
Live and let live. Always has been a meaningless platitude until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

Top
#2901780 - 01/13/18 07:31 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: harmonizer]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7025
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: harmonizer
We used to have a drummer who would rush, and a bassist who was not a strong enough player to hold the drummer in check. We never totally fixed the problem with our old lineup, but ......


It is nearly torture to hold back a rushing drummer. I play with them all the time... sometimes with keyboard and left hand, which affords me more control of tempo, other times just bass.... either way, it is an unpleasant experience.

But I notice my words are being ignored by some... All players influence the time, esp those playing prominent melodic lines of any sort. I regular notice this with clueless vocalists.
Now if a drummer is really weak with rushing.. your band is dead in the water.
But finding a solid drummer is not easy, depending on various factors.
Bass player and drums locking is a whole topic unto itself..
I do not know your band... send here, a short fragment of your selves,

Give the drummer a solo during a song... is another way of exposing or just bass and drums together.
Matter of fact each person in band can have an exposed solo, with no help from rest of band.
_________________________
Live and let live. Always has been a meaningless platitude until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

Top
#2901783 - 01/13/18 07:37 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: GregC]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7025
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: GregC
Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Slap [URL.jpg[/IMG]
Beat Bug

You can even get a second unit to link to this, and have that facing the band, or the bassist, or the person with the taser that you hire to nail someone randomly if the BPM shifts more than 5 bpm during a song. cop


A taser sounds like a decent motivator.

Or you can cut off the drummers beer supply.

he probably thinks drinking a lot of beer helps his performance wink


Booze, yeah, but pot too. We are creatures of habit. I know a bass player where this consistently happens.. First set is on one nice level, Second set ( after the "break" ) is noticeably not up to the first set... guess why?
_________________________
Live and let live. Always has been a meaningless platitude until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

Top
#2901790 - 01/13/18 07:59 AM Re: Getting the Rhythm Section to Play Better Rhythms [Re: I-missRichardTee]
David R Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 1166
Loc: Montreal, QC
So many musicians do not understand that we play music for dancing. There's a window of variance where the dance is still in the groove, and anything above or below that margin of error kills the pocket.

While there's all kinds of technical things one can do to improve time and rhythm (practicing to a click, practicing along with the records, etc), in terms of concept and philosophy NOTHING has been more important in my development than playing for dancers and taking some basic dance lessons.

For a nanosecond we were trying to do a medley of dancehall-influenced pop tunes in the function band with the old drummer, who had no idea about this style. I yelled at him to watch the asses of the dancers. If the booty isn't bouncing then we're not doing our job.
_________________________
My Site
Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic 9, Mainstage 2, Kontakt 5, AAS & Arturia stuff, fingers, pencil, paper.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Grave Bryce, Stephen Fortner