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#2901482 - 01/11/18 06:33 PM Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular)
Mark Schmieder Offline
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http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/11/moogs-new-drummer-from-another-mother-dfam/

I paid this no attention the other day when I received the email, thinking "I'm done with drum machines", but this isn't quite a drum machine in the traditional sense, and now that audio demos have been posted today, I am quite impressed. Especially after my being disappointed by the Tempest a few years back.

It's under $700, which really shocked me as I was expecting closer to $1600 based on size and features.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/11/18 07:08 PM)
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#2901483 - 01/11/18 06:37 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Drum Machine (Semi-Modular) [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Looks like it's especially designed for patching between two of these units, given the special housing they show for a doubled-up unit. That puts it closer to the $1600 price I would have expected for a semi-modular.
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#2901489 - 01/11/18 07:25 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: Mark Schmieder]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
It's under $700, which really shocked me as I was expecting closer to $1600 based on size and features.


I wouldn't be surprised if the price point was influenced by Behringer nipping at their heels.

I found it interesting that the email I got from Moog referred to the "Mother Ecosystem," which seems to imply that there are more things in the works.

Grey
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#2901493 - 01/11/18 07:37 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GRollins]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
It's under $700, which really shocked me as I was expecting closer to $1600 based on size and features.


I wouldn't be surprised if the price point was influenced by Behringer nipping at their heels.

I found it interesting that the email I got from Moog referred to the "Mother Ecosystem," which seems to imply that there are more things in the works.

Grey


Don't really understand why this is considered inexpensive. It's a monophonic, 2 osc patchable synth with sequencer. Eurorack size. Very crowded market.



The Mother Ecosystem is the 32 and the case.

The Mother 32 sells for the same price as the DFAM.


Busch.

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#2901497 - 01/11/18 08:20 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: burningbusch]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Aha, I think some of those demos were combining those two modules vs. two of the new DFAM. Some serious mojo either way.

I never look at features for price for anything; in fact, I prefer fewer features usually. The only thing that matters to me is quality, and reliability.

Moog is "over-priced" just as Roland is, relative to a few other companies, but in Moog's case it can at least be argued that the actual audio quality is superior, and engineering isn't free so pricing does reflect that as well.
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#2901505 - 01/11/18 09:56 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: Mark Schmieder]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Aha, I think some of those demos were combining those two modules vs. two of the new DFAM. Some serious mojo either way.


Not sure if it is for me but it sounds really good.
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#2901513 - 01/11/18 11:52 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: Mark Schmieder]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Moog is "over-priced"...


I'm not trying to take sides or start an argument, but people speak of wanting jobs that pay well. Here in the US, people want to feel that they have at least a fighting chance at the old-fashioned notion of upward mobility. I was born not far from Asheville and hope to move back to that area...only, it's getting popular and the local cost of living is increasing rapidly. In Black Mountain, Weaverville, Fletcher...all the surrounding towns, housing is skyrocketing. The people who work at Moog want to buy houses and cars and maybe even musical instruments, just like the rest of us. That takes money and that money comes from their paychecks, which come from Moog, which makes that money by charging higher prices than, say, Behringer. Like it or not, it is a zero sum game. Their ability to buy a house comes at your expense, decreasing your ability to do the same.

The flipside of the coin is that we, as consumers (and that most certainly includes me), will gravitate towards lower priced items if we feel that they will work as well. That allows us to at least try to have our cake and eat it too--to buy both a house and a synthesizer to fill it with music.

Mom and Pop standalone stores gave way to chains like Walmart, which in turn is in danger of falling to the mighty Amazon. What's right? Where's the proper balance between buying something cheap and "creating American jobs" that pay well? I'm not sure. I don't claim to have answers. However, I do try to remain aware of the pressures and counter-pressures in the market. Sometimes I buy cheap. Sometimes I pay a little more to support Sims Music, my local music store; a far, far better store than this area deserves.

I happen to want a Voyager, which just so happens to be made by that self-same Moog company. I'd prefer an XL, but cannot justify the price, even used. Some variant on the Performer? Maybe at used pricing. Possibly. An RME would be a little cheaper still. Where's my balance? This isn't just an academic, philosophical question. It has real world consequences, both for me and for the employees of Moog. Even if I buy used, I'm creating demand for Moog products in the marketplace and helping to keep the resale values up, which is encouraging to those who might buy new Moog products.

You can debate and analyze this for hours. It's just something to keep in mind when saying that an American company has high prices. Again, I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that there are sides.

Grey
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#2901514 - 01/12/18 12:04 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GRollins]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Hopefully you understood that my putting it in quotes meant that I don't agree with the notion myself, but was simply commenting on the oft-heard complaint about Moog gear's pricing.

The pedals are quite cheap and excellent. At least, the small versions, which I prefer over the large versions anyway, for guitar work (I think they are oriented towards guitar and maybe the big ones are meant for keyboards anyway).
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#2901515 - 01/12/18 12:38 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: Mark Schmieder]
GRollins Offline
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Me? I want it all.

I want to be able to afford to move back to the Asheville area and still have enough money to buy food--an uncertain proposition. I want a brand new XL (I'm not picky, we can skip the gold plating, and I don't need it hand delivered...I'll be happy to drop by the Moog store to pick it up). Oh, and I want Moog and all their employees to prosper so they'll keep creating great gear.

Sounds doable, right?

Grey
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#2901572 - 01/12/18 07:32 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: burningbusch]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch


Don't really understand why this is considered inexpensive. It's a monophonic, 2 osc patchable synth with sequencer. Eurorack size. Very crowded market.



The Mother Ecosystem is the 32 and the case.

The Mother 32 sells for the same price as the DFAM.


Busch.


On other forum, somebody brought up the legitimate question:

"What can I do with a DFAM that I can't do with a Mother-32?"

Besides the obvious differences in front panel layout and synth architecture, I do think it's a fair question to ask if the sonic results would be really all that different between the two. I suspect though that the M32, especially the sequencer, encourages users to create 70s Tangerine Dream riffs, while the DFAM encourages more open-ended explorations of sound and rhythm.

The Make Noise 0-Coast seems to be the small-footprint desktop semi-modular of choice for rhythm and sound exploration - due to its Buchla-like characteristics, and will probably compete more with the DFAM than M32. It's in the same price range.

There's also the Kilpatrick Phenol - yet another small desktop semi-modular, similar price. Seems to have fallen out of favor w/ the cool kids though.
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#2901590 - 01/12/18 08:20 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GovernorSilver]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
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A team effort of two analogs could be like adding the Intelligence Quotients of two Jack the plumbers and hoping you get the result IQ as the smartness level of the "team". Not likely. A bit boring but it can be computed by certain people what the relevant degrees of freedom (of the synths, not the performers) can be when combining several units, in terms of certain desirable musical patterns. I don't think these Moogs are the most interesting machines on earth anymore, even though some of the sounds are sweet, and I am a bit of a sucker for listening to a decent analog unit that at least never puts me off with all kinds of standard sampling distortion...

T.

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#2901618 - 01/12/18 09:50 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GovernorSilver]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver

The Make Noise 0-Coast seems to be the small-footprint desktop semi-modular of choice for rhythm and sound exploration - due to its Buchla-like characteristics, and will probably compete more with the DFAM than M32. It's in the same price range.



I would have picked SE-02. 0-Coast is single osc, no sequencer. But I do get your point regarding the rhythm usage du jour.
Price wise the 0-Coast matches up dead even with the SE-02. I believe both fall 30% under the DFAM.

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#2901640 - 01/12/18 10:54 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: Markyboard]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver

The Make Noise 0-Coast seems to be the small-footprint desktop semi-modular of choice for rhythm and sound exploration - due to its Buchla-like characteristics, and will probably compete more with the DFAM than M32. It's in the same price range.



I would have picked SE-02. 0-Coast is single osc, no sequencer. But I do get your point regarding the rhythm usage du jour.
Price wise the 0-Coast matches up dead even with the SE-02. I believe both fall 30% under the DFAM.


The SE-02 could be an intriguing choice for the "drum synth" role that DFAM is going for. At the Chuck Levin's Mother-32 workshop last year, the Moog rep showed us how to make the M-32 a "groovebox", using tricks very similar to the ones in this Monologue video to generate kick, snare, and cymbal sounds out of a monosynth:



SE-02 gives you more oscs to work with. cool

While 0-Coast has no sequencer, it does have an arpeggiator, as well as enough Buchla DNA to create those metallic Buchla percussive tones.


Edited by GovernorSilver (01/12/18 08:42 PM)
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#2901642 - 01/12/18 11:03 AM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GRollins]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Moog is "over-priced"...


I'm not trying to take sides or start an argument, but people speak of wanting jobs that pay well. Here in the US, people want to feel that they have at least a fighting chance at the old-fashioned notion of upward mobility. I was born not far from Asheville and hope to move back to that area...only, it's getting popular and the local cost of living is increasing rapidly. In Black Mountain, Weaverville,
You can debate and analyze this for hours. It's just something to keep in mind when saying that an American company has high prices. Again, I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that there are sides.

Grey


My bottom line is 'everything has an economic undercurrent '
(in our consumer based society).

zen is contrary to this and I wanted to place some context to my statement.
(or who originated it)

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#2901719 - 01/12/18 06:29 PM Re: Moog's new DFAM Analog Percussion Synthesizer (Semi-Modular) [Re: GregC]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I ignored the Mother-32 when it came out and never even listened to its demos, but hearing these two together has gotten me interested in the whole mother ship. :-)
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