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#2901378 - 01/11/18 08:37 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
Strays Dave Offline
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Registered: 01/06/16
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
He should stay away from singing. Musically he is very talented though.



Yes. Here's an instance of that terrible singing. According to the opening credit this was arranged and performed by Jacob Collier.


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#2901387 - 01/11/18 08:54 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Strays Dave]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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He should stay away from singing. Musically he is very talented though."

Sorry, anyone with this giant talent can do whatever he wishes, including singing!
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#2901390 - 01/11/18 08:56 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Outkaster Offline
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Sure doesn't mean it's good though.
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#2901391 - 01/11/18 08:57 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Sure doesn't mean it's good though.


it's not good......... to you grin
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#2901406 - 01/11/18 09:46 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
Dreamchilde Offline
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
He should stay away from singing. Musically he is very talented though.


Seriously?

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#2901409 - 01/11/18 10:06 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
DanL Offline
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My friend Mary Arden Collin's son Bohdi is the young boy in the vid.
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#2901415 - 01/11/18 10:30 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Sure doesn't mean it's good though.


As previously stated, you may not like the style, but he's definitely a badass.

Jump to the 10:00 mark of this video to catch him laying down quick vocal harmonies in Logic Pro.

Watch it for at least a few minutes to see him alter the bass vocals.

No trickery here, just pure talent. Not sure how you can slag that.

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#2901517 - 01/12/18 12:46 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: timwat]
BRW Offline
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OP: I saw this too. Obviously the title is a bit of a misnomer, because I felt that after the child and teen, Collier didn't really "explain" harmony - it was more of a discussion between two musicians after that.

At first I was taken aback by how somehow careful and courteous Herbie was during his segment (also when he played), when he still probably could play circles around Collier in terms of harmony - and arguably Collier has studied his juicy harmonies and reharms to a tee. But I realize it was probably a conscious decision on his part.

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#2901538 - 01/12/18 05:02 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Sven Golly]
Outkaster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Sure doesn't mean it's good though.


As previously stated, you may not like the style, but he's definitely a badass.

Jump to the 10:00 mark of this video to catch him laying down quick vocal harmonies in Logic Pro.

Watch it for at least a few minutes to see him alter the bass vocals.

No trickery here, just pure talent. Not sure how you can slag that.



No Sven I hear you...he is a badass just not my thing that's all. I appreciate talent.
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#2901595 - 01/12/18 08:31 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
No Sven I hear you...he is a badass just not my thing that's all. I appreciate talent.


Okay, my bad; thought you were suggesting otherwise. twothumbs

Frankly I'm not a fan of the "Take 6 on cocaine" approach of these arrangements (and want to put an axe through every Roland keyboard that has that f*#king patch in it mad mad mad ) but watching how he blazes through this in literally no time at all shows just how much talent, and more importantly, how much work he has put into his recording chops. I know pro engineers that would be hard pressed to keep up with that workflow.

(Obviously it's easier to go that fast when you don't have to communicate what you want to do to another human, but y'know what I mean... wink ).
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#2901610 - 01/12/18 09:13 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Sven Golly]
Theo Verelst Online   confused
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Those harmonies are all instrument dependent to get that "feel" he's trying to get (and almost completely fails to). I don't like his pushy broad forwardness at all maybe because them changes are church stuff from long ago, but interesting to see a Master like Hancock lay down those wonderful modal oriented nodes on the redstrument, very good.

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#2901638 - 01/12/18 10:50 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Theo Verelst]
Dave Ferris Offline
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.


Edited by Dave Ferris (01/12/18 01:17 PM)
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#2901660 - 01/12/18 12:14 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Dave Ferris]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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About Quincy Jones. Excellent taste in Peggy Lipton! But as a young guy, I recall not being much impressed with him as a second rate player. Quincy was given credit for arranging for Basie with Sinatra at the Sands. I am wondering if Quincy farmed any of that great music out to, eg Billy Byers, or other less heralded great arrangers.

Having said this... you know I see more sides to life than most. Quincy has to have gifts mixed in there with his gift for production, and hobnobbing with the right people.

Herbie's facial expression while listening to Jacob made the biggest impression on me of the whole video..
a mixture of humility, and genuine interest.

As for Sonny Clark versus Jacob.. I will take my time on that one.

Regarding the which is it question Dave asks... I would say.. Life is fascinatingly or frustratingly, or both.. contradictory by its very nature.
Q is a Pisces.. and I can relate to his way of stepping in and out of different worlds.. world views. Sonny Rollins and Jacob.
Only he and his Maker know how sincere he is.
Miles had the ability to step in different worlds too.
It opens up an interesting conversation, eh, Dave?


Edited by I-missRichardTee (01/12/18 12:27 PM)
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#2901665 - 01/12/18 12:49 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Strays Dave Offline
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I think of myself as a musical eclectic. I love old Elmore James, Beatles, Ellington/Strayhorn, 40's-50's R&B, Stravinsky, and on and on. Jacob has mentioned loving Stevie Wonder, Stravinsky, Bartok, Earth Wind and Fire and I'm sure many others.

I think maybe he's more akin to a Leonard Bernstein than a _____(fill in the jazz pianist of your choice). He is who his is and shouldn't (and I'm sure WON'T) try to conform to who/what people on the sidelines think he should. His skills open pathways for his creative play. All sorts of pathways.

Last night I had the notion (in an herbally inspired moment) that Jacob would probably be a good fit for being a musical director - composing, arranging, rehearsing, and performing in amazing musical productions. I'm thinking along the lines of the Ballet Russe in Paris circa 1909-1929. Contemporary composers of the day such as Stravinsky, Ravel, Debussy and Prokoviev created music for the productions. Artists like Matisse, Picasso did sets. Costume designers of the day created the wardrobes.

I think his skill set calls for more than just being a jazz pianist. Of course he hasn't asked my opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballets_Russes


Edited by Strays Dave (01/12/18 12:51 PM)
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#2901669 - 01/12/18 12:59 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Sven Golly]
Joe P Offline
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Registered: 01/24/05
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly


And again... a mic on a KC amp! freak wink


If you don't mic it, you lose the cabinet's contribution to the tone, Sven.

( smile )

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#2901674 - 01/12/18 01:34 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Joe P]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe P
Originally Posted By: Sven Golly


And again... a mic on a KC amp! freak wink


If you don't mic it, you lose the cabinet's contribution to the tone, Sven.

( smile )


Thank you, Joe. I'm glad that someone has taken a moment to commiserate with me on this key point. grin grin grin
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#2901835 - 01/13/18 11:40 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Sven Golly]
woodtus Offline
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Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 75
Jacob has a new TED talk up if anyone is interested ...
https://www.ted.com/talks/jacob_collier_a_one_man_audio_visual_viral_sensation

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#2901894 - 01/13/18 08:41 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: woodtus]
Keybass Offline
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You think he knows and Zep or Halen?
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#2901919 - 01/14/18 05:50 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: woodtus]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Originally Posted By: woodtus
Jacob has a new TED talk up if anyone is interested ...
https://www.ted.com/talks/jacob_collier_a_one_man_audio_visual_viral_sensation


One energetic creative man!
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#2901931 - 01/14/18 07:29 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Keybass Offline
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Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 463
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: woodtus
Jacob has a new TED talk up if anyone is interested ...
https://www.ted.com/talks/jacob_collier_a_one_man_audio_visual_viral_sensation


One energetic creative man!


In all seriousness his talent is considerable and very developed. I appreciate his efforts to bring the value of musical opportunity to the consciousness of the non-playing public.

What's very interesting to me is how many Jacob Collier type talents there are in just about every C.O.G.I.C. houses of worship all over the country.

I look forward to Collier's further development and the growth of his unique musical voice.


Edited by Keybass (01/14/18 07:30 AM)
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#2901939 - 01/14/18 08:10 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Keybass]
waygetter Offline
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A few of you have mentioned how Herbie was being respectful, but it almost seemed to me like Herbie was freezing up in the face of this crazy genius? Is that even possible? Could someone of Herbie's stature ever freeze up?

By the way, I would be so completely intimidated that I would freeze up at Level 1. But then I could blame it on the mic'd KC amp.
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#2901955 - 01/14/18 09:49 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: waygetter]
Outkaster Offline
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No everyone can get intimidated anytime. No one knows everything genius or not.
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#2901962 - 01/14/18 10:22 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Outkaster]
ProfD Offline
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Herbie Hancock has played with and/or met the most gifted musicians the world has produced over the past 60 years.

IMO, Herbie didn't freeze up nor was he intimidated or impressed with this kid. More than likely, Herbie honored an obligatory commitment to indulge him.

As a legendary musician, Herbie gets paid to sit through a lot of sh8t both good and bad. This wasn't the worst kind. His Kronos endorsement was terrible. laughcool
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#2901976 - 01/14/18 11:01 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: ProfD]
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#2901982 - 01/14/18 11:42 AM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: ProfD]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted By: ProfD
Herbie Hancock has played with and/or met the most gifted musicians the world has produced over the past 60 years.

IMO, Herbie didn't freeze up nor was he intimidated or impressed with this kid. More than likely, Herbie honored an obligatory commitment to indulge him.

As a legendary musician, Herbie gets paid to sit through a lot of sh8t both good and bad. This wasn't the worst kind.


Exactly my thoughts on this and well said D.

He wasn't intimated here but I heard he had second thoughts about this going in---and who wouldn't ! wink If there was a time for anyone to be intimidated, this would be it.

He had to shed quite a bit and took some lessons regarding technique executing certain passages. I hear him doing a fantastic job.


in HD a little shorter clip


And I thought Jacob sounded very good on Here's that rainy day.


Edited by Dave Ferris (01/14/18 12:09 PM)
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#2901997 - 01/14/18 12:29 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: Dave Ferris]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Well Dave Ferris, I always respect your well crafted playing and intelligent words about music.
I was trying to be open to Jacob, in a spirit that the Buddhist Herbie ( I was guessing ) himself would encourage. I mean, he did participate here.

A few more points..
I am so pleased to hear these examples of Herbie Hancock's supreme talent. Thank you Linwood!!
One clueless query.. was that version of the Gershwin piece, a new creation on the original one??

I am so frustrated that ( I mentioned this in the past, but it is worth reiterating ) the five nights in a row at the Blue Note, where I heard Herbie in trio format... absolutely blew my mind; yet it is as if it never happened.
I never heard him play that way as he did those nights. The music was impossibly difficult, spontaneous, AND supremely musical. You had to hear it, to comprehend how difficult the music was... and he even indicated that to his rapt audience... that he got lost a few times... and no wonder...
I am so tempted to call Herbie the all time greatest modern jazz pianist... but I never heard any other great artist for 5 nights in a row.. so I cannot say that.

I have a deep antipathy towards postmodernism, which says ( for me ) all contributions are equal .. and they absolutely are not... not even close. Bob Dylan is about as musical as my pinky.. and I bow to Herbie's obvious authentic genius.

BUT the "Buddhist" part of me ( I am not a Buddhist per se.. the sound of one hand clapping here ) says Herbie's genius is closely associated with openness , so I try to emulate my elder brother Mr Hancock.. trying to be as open as possible... eg Jacob, who I respect.

Thank you Dave for this contribution.
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#2902009 - 01/14/18 02:00 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: I-missRichardTee]
waygetter Offline
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Iím kind of thinking of it like this. When I was a kid, I grew up surfing on the coast north of Los Angeles. Way back then, we had these huge surfboards, we called them logs. These things were huge, they were heavy. You dragged them out into the surf, paddled them out, turned them around, caught waves and pretty much rode them straight in. There wasnít much turning going on.

But we kids, we looked at the old time masters in Hawaii, they were riding these boards (surfboards, not keyboards) in huge swells, catching 20-25í waves. They were big guys, having built up huge muscles from paddling these logs, dropping in at the last second, majestically making the huge drop, surviving near devastating wipeouts, and generally becoming swashbuckling legends of the sport.

But, as time went along, something started to happen. The boards started getting shorter and lighter, and shorter and lighter. A new breed of surfers started to show up. They were fearless, riding these shorter boards, carving amazing turns off the bottom, bouncing off the lip, getting tubed and getting spit out. They were doing new and amazing things. Us kids in SoCal, we were watching what was going on from afar, and totally amazed at what these guys were doing. It was like a dream, a fantasy, they were carving up those waves like death-defying magicians, like nothing we had ever seen and could only dream of having their skills, creativity, courage and mojo.

I have to think that the old surfing masters felt the same way, watching these new young heroes. They must have been just as blown away and maybe even a bit taken aback. But what these new kids were doing, did not in any way diminish what the old masters had done. Rather, they were validating what they had done, by carrying on and taking it to new previously unseen levels. The old masters were forever legendary, their skill, bravery and accomplishments to live on in perpetuity, just like their forebears.

And 30 years from now, Jacob will be marveling at a new young prodigy, and maybe even be a bit intimidated.
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#2902104 - 01/14/18 07:35 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: ProfD]
Mjazz Offline
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Registered: 06/05/15
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Loc: CA US
Originally Posted By: ProfD
IMO, Herbie didn't freeze up nor was he intimidated or impressed with this kid. More than likely, Herbie honored an obligatory commitment to indulge him.

As a legendary musician, Herbie gets paid to sit through a lot of sh8t both good and bad. This wasn't the worst kind. His Kronos endorsement was terrible. laughcool

In Herbie Hancock's online 25-part Master Class, in Part 4, "Learning By Listening," he offers five specific suggestions for "Who To Listen To and Copy":
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
Wayne Shorter
Stevie Wonder

And lastly, Jacob Collier. "Now here's a young man ... who can teach you a lot of lessons in harmony just by listening to his records, if you can figure out what he did. His name is Jacob Collier. He's only 21 years of age, and he only has one record out, it's called In My Room, and anything on that record has plenty of things to learn from."

In the coursebook he adds: "Listen to Jacob Collierís In My Room. You might be inspired to see how much music one person can make by himself."
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#2902112 - 01/14/18 07:55 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: waygetter]
linwood Offline
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That Rainy Day clip is pretty sweet with him and his Mom. He's 18 there. At 18, I don't think I'd even heard Rainy Day yet and my harmonic interest didn't go past -7. Plus he's playing bass and drums. That 12 tone thing Herbie throws at him was sure nice. What instincts he has!! Very cool what he was able to do with that. He doesn't have to write that stuff out either. He can do it in his head and fairly quick. It's like what Homer Simpson says: Those jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up.

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#2902121 - 01/14/18 08:33 PM Re: Jacob Collier attempts to explain one concept to 5 levels [Re: waygetter]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: waygetter
Iím kind of thinking of it like this.


very cool analogy. cheers
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