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#2899894 - 01/05/18 01:53 PM Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano
Polkahero Offline
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I swore I wasn't going to buy anymore keyboard gear for a long time but the Retirement Home zombie thread got me thinking. I play a lot of these places on solo piano and many of them don't have decent acoustic instruments. Not tuned regularly, certain notes that don't cut off, noisy sustain pedals, etc. I already own a Kawai MP7 that is great for band use, but I'm looking for a DP that is much lighter in the 25 lb. range that has built in speakers so I don't have to haul much gear to these gigs. I don't need a ton of different sounds as I'm playing acoustic piano on 95% of the songs I play. Being classically trained what I do need is the best action and acoustic piano sound I can get from a keyboard this light. Looks like there are 4 models that might fit my needs:

Casio PX-160
Korg B1
Yamaha P-115
Kawai ES110

Price doesn't matter, just looking for a recommendation from these four models and any others that may be out there that I'm not aware of. My local Guitar Center has the Yamaha and Casio in stock so I could try those out in person, the Kawai intrigues me but nobody carries it locally. The Korg model doesn't seem as popular, probably not as good? Are the speakers in these boards sufficient enough to carry a small room for an audience of about 50 people? Thanks!
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#2899898 - 01/05/18 02:02 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
Tom Williams Offline
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I believe you're looking for a Casio PX-560. You might want to spring for the triple-pedal thingy. (My personal experience is with the 560's older brother, the PX-5S, which does not have built-in speakers, but is a glorious instrument in its own right.)
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#2899901 - 01/05/18 02:30 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Tom Williams]
EscapeRocks Offline
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I would concur with Tom. The 560 or PX5S

Great action, given the wight and price point.

My PX5S is my 88 note board I use with the Mainstage rig
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#2899902 - 01/05/18 02:44 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
Bill H. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Are the speakers in these boards sufficient enough to carry a small room for an audience of about 50 people? Thanks!


Based on playing in my mom's assisted care center when she was alive, I'd say yes. I had to bring a powered speaker, and unless it was practically off I was always told to turn down -and this was in a large communal dining area.

If you sing, get one with a mic input. Other than that, I don't know which one to suggest.

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#2899917 - 01/05/18 04:27 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Tom Williams]
Polkahero Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
I believe you're looking for a Casio PX-560. You might want to spring for the triple-pedal thingy. (My personal experience is with the 560's older brother, the PX-5S, which does not have built-in speakers, but is a glorious instrument in its own right.)


I need to get over my Casio stigma, lol. Didn't know about this model, looks promising.
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#2899918 - 01/05/18 04:35 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
Polkahero Offline
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Is the acoustic piano sample in the PX-560 the same as the PX-160? At least I could hear what it sounds like at my local GC.
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#2899921 - 01/05/18 04:58 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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PX-160 specs:
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/privia-series/px-160

PX-560 specs:
http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/privia-series/px-560

Casio has figured out how to build a lightweight action that you can play expressive piano on - and it feels good to play it. They use the same action on all the PX models.

Would I rather play the Yamaha N3, yes. CP4, yes. Kawai ES8, yes.

The last few ceremony and cocktail gigs I did I borrowed a PX-560 and have been pleased with it. Thinking about getting one myself.

But there is a Kurzweil SP6 out now that is in the weight and price range of the Casio. We've been chatting on it extensively here:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2873822/Kurzweil_SP6#Post2873822
It looks/sounds really nice. I suspect the presets are better developed than the Casio sounds but I am not confident I'll like the action on it better than the Casio.

If you can tolerate synth action the Kurzweil Artis7 is worth a look - but at its weight you might prefer the Yamaha CP4. Or the Roland VR-730.

And if the price isn't a deal breaker check out Nord Electro 5 HP 73, or Nord Stage HP76. Also on the lighter side, but given the choice action wise for comparable weight, I probably choose the CP4 here again.
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#2899926 - 01/05/18 05:24 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Is the acoustic piano sample in the PX-560 the same as the PX-160? At least I could hear what it sounds like at my local GC.

It's very similar, but the speakers of the PX-160 aren't as good. So if you listen to the PX160 with headphones, you'll know pretty much what the higher end models sound like with headphones. But if you want to hear what it sounds like through its speakers, the PX160 won't help.

Just for piano, there's very little difference between the PX360 and the PX560, so you could save the money and get the PX360. It's 26.2 lbs, close enough? IIRC, the

If you want beefier speakers in a lightweight board, the Kurzweil KA90 is 27.1 lbs. It also has some siblings like the Alesis Coda Pro. One thing I know about the Kurz version is that you can definitely plug into an iPad (i.e. to get a potentially better piano sound), feed the iPad's piano sound into the board and hear it through its speakers while silencing its own sound. The Alesis etc. can probably do the same, but I know it definitely works on the Kurz, I tried it. I'm guessing you can probably do the same on the Casio, though again, the Kurz speakers are louder. The decent built-in speakers are probably the best thing about the board, actually.

Going up in quality, the Dexibell Vivo P3 is 27.6 lbs, but only 73 keys. The 88 key version (P7) is almost 32 lbs, so presumably too heavy. Unfortunately, all the other nice models Elmer mentioned don't have built-in speakers.
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#2899931 - 01/05/18 05:52 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Polkahero Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Is the acoustic piano sample in the PX-560 the same as the PX-160? At least I could hear what it sounds like at my local GC.

It's very similar, but the speakers of the PX-160 aren't as good. So if you listen to the PX160 with headphones, you'll know pretty much what the higher end models sound like with headphones. But if you want to hear what it sounds like through its speakers, the PX160 won't help.

Just for piano, there's very little difference between the PX360 and the PX560, so you could save the money and get the PX360. It's 26.2 lbs, close enough? IIRC, the

If you want beefier speakers in a lightweight board, the Kurzweil KA90 is 27.1 lbs. It also has some siblings like the Alesis Coda Pro. One thing I know about the Kurz version is that you can definitely plug into an iPad (i.e. to get a potentially better piano sound), feed the iPad's piano sound into the board and hear it through its speakers while silencing its own sound. The Alesis etc. can probably do the same, but I know it definitely works on the Kurz, I tried it. I'm guessing you can probably do the same on the Casio, though again, the Kurz speakers are louder. The decent built-in speakers are probably the best thing about the board, actually.

Going up in quality, the Dexibell Vivo P3 is 27.6 lbs, but only 73 keys. The 88 key version (P7) is almost 32 lbs, so presumably too heavy. Unfortunately, all the other nice models Elmer mentioned don't have built-in speakers.



Do the PX-360 and PX-560 have the same speakers? What are the exact differences between the two models? Yeah, I can work with 26 lbs.
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#2899936 - 01/05/18 06:29 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
Jazz+ Offline
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Love the PX360! Best I have ever owned, such a great action and dynamic response. To me itís more of a virtual reality experience of playing a real piano than the comparable Roland or Yamaha model.
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#2899939 - 01/05/18 06:52 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Jazz+]
kenheeter Offline
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How about the Dexibell Vivo? Nice ivory hammer action and a good weight.

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#2899940 - 01/05/18 06:55 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Do the PX-360 and PX-560 have the same speakers?

I'm 99% sure they're the same.

Originally Posted By: Polkahero
What are the exact differences between the two models?

Although not a complete list, see my msg#2887524 at http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2887524

As you'll see there, 560 is much more capable. Not mentioned there is that the PX560 also supports and expression pedal and more effects. But strictly as piano, the 560 and 360 are pretty similar.
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#2899947 - 01/05/18 07:34 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: kenheeter]
Polkahero Offline
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Originally Posted By: kenheeter
How about the Dexibell Vivo? Nice ivory hammer action and a good weight.


Too heavy, no built in speakers.
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#2899949 - 01/05/18 07:49 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
cphollis Offline
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Good luck with the built-in speaker thing. Not dissing, just being practical.

It's more about personal use, vs. entertaining a small audience. If you can find a built-in with enough oomph to reach the back row, good on you. I haven't seen it. At least, with sufficient quality that it doesn't suck.

If it was me, I'd suck it up for a super-small portable PA (SSv3 comes to mind, but there are other options) unless you don't care that people really can't hear you.

And, trust me, the retirement home crowd doesn't have the best of hearing. Although they can always dial their hearing aids up.

Bottom line, keyboards usually have wussie built-in amplification at best. Unless we're taking hybrids like the Yamaha AG series and similar, which can decently fill a room.

Sure, we'd all like a super-light AP with decent playability that incorporated enough amplification to fill the room. Just like we would all like to have flying cars. Sorry, not happening.

Best of luck!

-- Chuck
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#2899959 - 01/05/18 08:43 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: cphollis]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I know some guys do gigs where the two 8 watt amps driving 4.xĒ speakers is enough. But I generally find they donít do the instrumentís sound engine justice. The 560 can get fairly loud but timbre is not great when pushed. I carry the light weight SSv3 and it does a lot better. If you play in large room with a lot of people and accompany an acoustic instrument like sax or violin, or amplified singer then additional amplification can be helpful. You have to see if youíre satisfied with the onboard sound for your gigging situation. I know if I could carry less I would. If thereís acoustic drums, youíre lost.
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#2899990 - 01/06/18 04:44 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Originally Posted By: kenheeter
How about the Dexibell Vivo?


Too heavy, no built in speakers.

As I mentioned above, Dexibell Vivo P3 is 27.6 lbs, and it has speakers, if you can manage with 73 keys. (I assume the 32 lb 88-key version is too heavy).

Originally Posted By: cphollis
Good luck with the built-in speaker thing. Not dissing, just being practical

For the purposes mentioned, the Dexibell and the Kurzweil KA90 will probably work. Or in a used model, a Roland FP2 or FP4 (which are surprisingly loud despite the wattage specs), though they're beginning to creep up in weight, into the low 30s. (If it wasn't for the weight criteria, there would also be the Roland FP90 and the tank that is the Yamaha CP300.)

Originally Posted By: cphollis
If it was me, I'd suck it up for a super-small portable PA (SSv3 comes to mind...

The goal here is light weight, the ZXa1 would do a great job at much lower weight, and from a thread in another forum, it turns out that the OP already owns the ZXa1. For the purposes at hand, one could get by with even lighter (albeit less good sounding) amplification to get even lower than the ZXa1's 19 lbs. A Behringer B208d is 14.7 lbs. The lightest thing I've found that gets me by for solo cocktail hour stuff is a Klipsch KMC3 at about 8 lbs, see
http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KMC-3-Spec-Sheet.pdf
But I've also been fine using a Roland FP2 with no external amp.
(Either is noticeably louder than a PX560.)
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#2900001 - 01/06/18 06:30 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Stormfront Offline
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Another vote for the Casio PX-360. Light enough, not loud enough by itself except for very small gatherings (you can sing over it without a mic).

I play Kurzweils but the weight got to me, so now they only come out for special occasions. What I like about the 360 is you can split and layer it very easily, unlike it's older brother 350. I own one of those too.


Edited by Stormfront (01/06/18 06:33 AM)
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#2900043 - 01/06/18 08:41 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Stormfront]
Polkahero Offline
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Thanks for all of the input, I've got it narrowed down to about 3 models. I should mention that two of the places with the worst pianos have powered PA speakers (though not the sound quality of my EV ZXA1's) that I could use to help support the internal speakers of the keyboard. I'll probably purchase 2 or 3 of these models from GC and then return the one(s) that don't measure up:

Casio PX-360/560
Roland FP-30
Kawai ES110
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#2900044 - 01/06/18 08:49 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I've got it narrowed down to about 3 models.

Repeating in case you missed my posts: There are sub-30 lb models from Dexibell and Kurzweil that will go louder than any of the three you listed.
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#2900049 - 01/06/18 09:25 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Polkahero Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I've got it narrowed down to about 3 models.

Repeating in case you missed my posts: There are sub-30 lb models from Dexibell and Kurzweil that will go louder than any of the three you listed.


I saw that but I can't deal with only 73 keys on the Dexibell, and I don't have an iPad to augment the piano sounds on the Kurz.
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#2900053 - 01/06/18 09:47 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I don't have an iPad to augment the piano sounds on the Kurz.

The KA90 piano sound is no great shakes, but it's not unusable, it might be good enough for your purposes. Worst case, since you said "Price doesn't matter," you could add an i-device. KA90 + Ipad + interface total about $1k (assuming there's an i-piano sound you prefer to what's in the KA90). Surface Pro gives you access to some higher end pianos than iPad, but also pricier, and may take some more effort for initial setup. But then you can run Pianoteq, for example. If you want "best quality at lowest weight with loudest speakers," I think this is something to look into.

Getting back to your list of three, I think you could upgrade the sound of the Casio with a tablet, but not the Kawai or Roland. (Again, assuming your goal is to use the internal speakers of these boards.) Of course, you might be perfectly content with the sounds that are already in these boards. Personally, I would not find the Casio or Kawai loud enough for what you describe. Not sure about the Roland.
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#2900056 - 01/06/18 09:55 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Polkahero Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Polkahero
I don't have an iPad to augment the piano sounds on the Kurz.

The KA90 piano sound is no great shakes, but it's not unusable, it might be good enough for your purposes. Worst case, since you said "Price doesn't matter," you could add an i-device. KA90 + Ipad + interface total about $1k (assuming there's an i-piano sound you prefer to what's in the KA90). Surface Pro gives you access to some higher end pianos than iPad, but also pricier, and may take some more effort for initial setup. But then you can run Pianoteq, for example. If you want "best quality at lowest weight with loudest speakers," I think this is something to look into.

Getting back to your list of three, I think you could upgrade the sound of the Casio with a tablet, but not the Kawai or Roland. (Again, assuming your goal is to use the internal speakers of these boards.) Of course, you might be perfectly content with the sounds that are already in these boards. Personally, I would not find the Casio or Kawai loud enough for what you describe. Not sure about the Roland.


Any idea how the action is on the KA90? Is it a TP-100?
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#2900057 - 01/06/18 10:30 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
Any idea how the action is on the KA90? Is it a TP-100?

It is not a TP100. It feels pretty similar to the low-end Yamaha actions (GHS).
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#2900059 - 01/06/18 10:33 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Polkahero Offline
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I don't think the KA90 includes a built in music stand like the Privia and ES1100 have. That saves me from hauling a separate music stand which I need for these gigs.
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#2900062 - 01/06/18 10:54 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
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If it helps, the groove in the top of the KA90 can hold an iPad, and you can use the iPad to display song charts or sheet music.
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#2900064 - 01/06/18 11:08 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Stormfront]
summers Offline
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Stormfront, It has been my experience that all Casio keyboards make a very loud mechanical clacking noise when being played that is very annoying. I own a WK 7600 now(which was an improvement over the 7500) and seldom play the thing for that reason. I've never actually owned a Px-360 though, and wondered if it is as noisy as the others that I have played. I've owned Rolands, Korgs and Yamahas in the past, and there is no comparison. What about the Px-360 relative to mechanical key noise?

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#2900082 - 01/06/18 11:58 AM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: summers]
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Originally Posted By: summers
Stormfront, It has been my experience that all Casio keyboards make a very loud mechanical clacking noise when being played that is very annoying. I own a WK 7600 now(which was an improvement over the 7500) and seldom play the thing for that reason. I've never actually owned a Px-360 though, and wondered if it is as noisy as the others that I have played.

Your 7500/7600 experience doesn't apply here, because those are not hammer action keyboards... the mechanism and potential mechanical sounds are very different. The PX360 is a hammer action keyboard, and would sound nothing like the semi-weighted boards.

That said, Casio appears to have some variance in their semi-weighted actions (different production runs? sourced from different subcontractors?)... I have played multiple XW-P1, and some of the keyboards are very nice, quiet, kind of "buttery", while others are clacky and terrible, presumably like the ones you've experienced.
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#2905221 - 01/27/18 06:31 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: AnotherScott]
Polkahero Offline
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Finally got around to trying out the Yamaha P-115 and Casio PX-160 at my local GC today. The speakers in the Casio are a total joke, even turned all the way up it's not loud at all. I believe the PX360/560 models have the same speakers so Casio is definitely out. I didn't like the textured key feel either. Yamaha has more volume, doesn't distort even turned all the way up, but I'm not sure it's enough. Action/sound quality seemed okay.

Still looking to try out the Kawai ES110 which I'll probably have to order online as my local GC doesn't stock it.

Has anyone tried replacing the internal speakers of these boards with ones that are more efficient?


Edited by Polkahero (01/27/18 06:32 PM)
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#2905223 - 01/27/18 07:05 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: Polkahero
FinallyI believe the PX360/560 models have the same speakers so Casio is definitely out.

Not the same speakers. Px160 uses a pair of full-range speakers. Those others have separate woofers and tweeters, and (as expected) they do sound better.
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#2905226 - 01/27/18 07:15 PM Re: Looking For Lightweight (25 Lbs.) 88-Key Digital Piano [Re: Polkahero]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
That's the problem of cheap slab digitals with internal speakers. They're mainly for personal monitoring playing alone or with unmiced singer or acoustic instrument.

The problem isn't the speakers per se so much as the whole concept and design.

Yamaha P-115 two 7 watt amplifiers driving a pair of 4.5" speakers with 1.5" tweeters.

Casio PX-360M two 8 watt amps driving a pair of 4.73" speakers with 1.97" tweeter.

Kawai ES-110 two 7 watt amps driving a pair of 4.72" speakers.

Try the 71.63lbs Yamaha CP-300 with a pair of 30 watt amps driving a pair of 5.1" speakers. $2499.99

Or pickup a fairly light weight monitor. Here are some popular models.
Center Point Stereo Spacestation V.3 Powered Stereo Speaker
Alto Truesonic TS212 12" 2-Way Powered Speaker
QSC K10.2 2000W 10" Powered Speaker
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