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#2899300 - 01/03/18 05:20 AM GREG LAKE
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, I know he died over a year ago. But a discussion about something in another forum gave me cause to listen to( after too many years) ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery" . And I gave it a close listening than I ever did.

At his death, there was all the usual mention of his bass wor with KING CRIMSON and ELP, but when listening to BSS, it brought to mind as to how incredible a GUITARIST he was. I'm not really sure, but off the top I'd say I don't recall much of it brought up here at the time.

In fact, I thought ALL three did fantastic work on that LP. It's a shame to me that drummer CARL PALMER's skills were wasted in ASIA. I'll go further to say EVERYBODY'S skills were wasted in that band.
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#2899305 - 01/03/18 05:53 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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ASIA-man where do I start-maybe the `Ishtar` of music?
At least in this case there`s two lingering questions-what could have been and more importantly, what went wrong?
On a smaller scale, the same could be asked of the band GTR.


Edited by skipclone 1 (01/03/18 05:55 AM)
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#2899423 - 01/03/18 02:34 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, don't know what went wrong. When first learning of the initial line-up, I had high hopes and anticipation. THEN I heard "Heat Of The Moment" and my heart did a tailspinning nosedive.
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#2899430 - 01/03/18 03:21 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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Both Asia and GTR were attempts to popularize progressive rock which is kind of a contradiction in terms. They did create some radio hits, but were short lived. Back to Greg Lake. He was a very talented man. Great vocalist, composer, bass and guitar player. He couldn't really break out with screaming guitar solos as he was backing up the greatest rock keyboard player of all time in Kieth Emerson. I think Greg could have had a successful solo career had he really had the ego to go for it. The closest he came was on ELP's Works double album where all 3 band members did a side of their own compositions. He definitely held his own.
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#2899484 - 01/03/18 09:34 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Delta]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I listened to some atrocious ELP live recordings this past weekend, from various decades -- only a few were very good. But what was consistent about them all, was Greg Lake's passion, enthusiasm, commitment, and strong ensemble blend. More so than the other two.
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#2899485 - 01/03/18 09:35 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Greg had a few solo albums that were sort of borderline heavy metal. They're very different from each other so take some getting used to, but actually all are quite strong from a songwriting and performance point of view. He had no trouble recruiting great musicians to work with him.
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#2899504 - 01/04/18 03:52 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delta
Both Asia and GTR were attempts to popularize progressive rock which is kind of a contradiction in terms. They did create some radio hits, but were short lived. Back to Greg Lake. He was a very talented man. Great vocalist, composer, bass and guitar player. He couldn't really break out with screaming guitar solos as he was backing up the greatest rock keyboard player of all time in Kieth Emerson. I think Greg could have had a successful solo career had he really had the ego to go for it. The closest he came was on ELP's Works double album where all 3 band members did a side of their own compositions. He definitely held his own.


I disagree. "Progressive Rock" had by that time, peaked and basically ran it's course of popularity. I think those bands were more of an attempt to revive and/or sustain it somewhat. But in some cases, it was a matter of running out of ideas and in most, "die hard" fans didn't like some of the personnel changes, which also changed the overall "vibe" of the bands that brought about their fan bases in the first place. ie.: Good as he is, I really never thought ALAN WHITE was a good fit for what YES was better known for doing. As for ELP, I never did take to TARKUS all that much, and only have their first LP, "Pictures At An Exhibition", "Trilogy" and BSS LPs. Those made beyond "Salad" seemed to me to be only "milking" their laurels.
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#2899536 - 01/04/18 07:04 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: Delta
Both Asia and GTR were attempts to popularize progressive rock which is kind of a contradiction in terms. They did create some radio hits, but were short lived. Back to Greg Lake. He was a very talented man. Great vocalist, composer, bass and guitar player. He couldn't really break out with screaming guitar solos as he was backing up the greatest rock keyboard player of all time in Kieth Emerson. I think Greg could have had a successful solo career had he really had the ego to go for it. The closest he came was on ELP's Works double album where all 3 band members did a side of their own compositions. He definitely held his own.


I disagree. "Progressive Rock" had by that time, peaked and basically ran it's course of popularity. I think those bands were more of an attempt to revive and/or sustain it somewhat. But in some cases, it was a matter of running out of ideas and in most, "die hard" fans didn't like some of the personnel changes, which also changed the overall "vibe" of the bands that brought about their fan bases in the first place. ie.: Good as he is, I really never thought ALAN WHITE was a good fit for what YES was better known for doing. As for ELP, I never did take to TARKUS all that much, and only have their first LP, "Pictures At An Exhibition", "Trilogy" and BSS LPs. Those made beyond "Salad" seemed to me to be only "milking" their laurels.
Whitefang


It doesn't sound to me like you're disagreeing with me at all. I certainly don't disagree with you. I think that Genesis did a good job of slowly transitioning from Prog to Rock/Pop successfully. Of course a lot of that had to do with lineup changes. I also think that Peter Gabriel, the former singer of Genesis put some good progressive ideas into his Rock/Pop solo albums that he did after he left the band. He also recorded an excellent instrumental soundtrack for the movie "Birdy". Back to ELP. I saw them twice in the late 70s and they were excellent both times. I also like all their albums even the later ones. All in all, they had a very successful run.


Edited by Delta (01/04/18 07:11 AM)
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#2899660 - 01/04/18 03:42 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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I saw ELP twice too. 1st in late '71(promoting "Pictures") and 2nd in mid '72(promoting "Trilogy").

Incidentally, that 1st ELP concert had THE MAHAVISNHU ORCHESTRA open for them. I had never heard at that time of John McLaughlin and by the middle of their first number my whole world changed! love
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#2899888 - 01/05/18 01:03 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Both Yes ("Relayer") and ELP ("Tarkus", "Trilogy", and "Brain Salad Surgery") were heavily influenced by touring with Mahavishnu as the opening act.
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#2899899 - 01/05/18 02:20 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Danzilla Offline
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When not just considered the bass player, Greg is often thought of more as an acoustic player than electric, but "From The Beginning" showed both sides.

I didn't see ELP live until the 80's & 90's, but he played lead on several songs (primarily Karn Evil 9). Their 90's albums were good, but didn't feature much lead playing from him.

And as mentioned above, on his solo albums he played guitar, but often had other guitar players as well, such as Gary Moore on "Nuclear Attack".
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#2899953 - 01/05/18 08:14 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Delta Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Both Yes ("Relayer") and ELP ("Tarkus", "Trilogy", and "Brain Salad Surgery") were heavily influenced by touring with Mahavishnu as the opening act.


And this is based on what resource of information? I was a big fan of Mahavishnu myself and I would think that all musicians learn from each other. I'm sure that Mahavishnu learned a few things from ELP and Yes also. I might add that the styles of music involved between these before mentioned bands are entirely different. Ain't that great?
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#2899964 - 01/05/18 09:47 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Delta]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Interviews. Someone linked them in one of the other forums recently. Probably the keyboard forum.
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#2899987 - 01/06/18 04:17 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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Well, I once saw Mahavishnu open for FRANK ZAPPA.

I don't think there was any influence on EITHER from that. But probably a lot of mutual respect. wink
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#2900008 - 01/06/18 07:02 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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By the way, Greg Lake's autobiography was released last summer. Appropriately called Lucky Man. I haven't read it. It gets good reviews on Amazon. Birthday present for me this year.


Edited by Delta (01/06/18 08:56 AM)
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#2900125 - 01/06/18 02:46 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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I'll put that on my list too. Right after I "update" my reading glasses. wink
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#2901255 - 01/10/18 06:17 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Iconoclast Offline
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I heard about the "prog super group" Asia long before their album came out. Being a total Prog-snob or proghole as I like to call it, I was very excited.

I actually skipped school and went to the record store to buy it the day it was released. Clearly the record company was expecting big things as they were putting out hundreds of the album for purchase. I honestly may have been the first person to buy the album in Arizona.

Imagine my disappointment when I listened to it. Trite 3 minute love songs.

The only thing that was worse...about 2-3 weeks later it was incredibly popular and being played everywhere, and even the POPULAR KIDS liked it. Made me hate it even more.

In the end, I'll bet those guys made more money off of Asia than they made of of any of their prog projects.
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#2901300 - 01/11/18 04:10 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Iconoclast]
whitefang Offline
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Probably. And maybe that was part of the intention. You know, draw in some of the "progholes"( wink I like that!) and pick up some NEW faces on the way. Maybe those that weren't into Prog would like those "trite 3 minute love songs" enough to take interest in any of their earlier work and regenerate those sales.

But, just guessing here....
Whitefang
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#2901473 - 01/11/18 05:55 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I actually thought GTR was pretty good -- especially their live albums.

I'm also one of the rare people who almost exclusively likes the later Asia material, even though that singer grates on me a bit at times. The songs themselves are far stronger and more progressive though -- especially on the ones that didn't come out in the USA and are hard to find.
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#2901620 - 01/12/18 10:00 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I was in the WTF crowd with Asia and GTR too. But I do wish the band U.K-also with John Wetton on vox-had stuck it out. I think that group was a lot closer to getting the prog dogs and the beer mug smashers in the same room.
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#2901759 - 01/13/18 05:10 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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grin
ELP, GTR, BTO, ELO....any other "alphabet soup" band names out there? wink

Had acronyms been a "thing" back in the "day" WTF would have been a GREAT name for the bands I was in since it was the typical response from anyone who heard us. grin

SOL would have fit too. wink
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#2901792 - 01/13/18 08:04 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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U2, CCR, ABBA... cool
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#2901861 - 01/13/18 02:38 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Larryz]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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When I first heard about KC & the Sunshine Band, I thought King Crimson was the latest one to go disco...
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#2901867 - 01/13/18 03:35 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
When I first heard about KC & the Sunshine Band, I thought King Crimson was the latest one to go disco...


laugh

OK, I always heard Ireland was often used by German U-boats for refueling and going inland on neutral Ireland for supplies and figured U2 took the name due to that. It's still debatable.

But, what is ABBA an acronym for?
Whitefang
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#2901888 - 01/13/18 06:48 PM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Anna-Frid (aka Frida), Benny, Bjorn, Agnetha.

I might have some of those spellings wrong, as they get westernized a lot.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/13/18 06:48 PM)
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#2901903 - 01/14/18 03:58 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: Mark Schmieder]
whitefang Offline
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Thanks for the info Mark. To MY mind, it takes a lot of courage to be able to admit I really KNOW that much about those people. wink
Whitefang
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#2901985 - 01/14/18 11:57 AM Re: GREG LAKE [Re: whitefang]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Hah -- I went to college in Indiana, where you could be tarred and feathered if you owned up to liking ABBA! My best mate in college turned me onto them and Blondie, long before either was a "thing" in the USA.

He was very clever in that he introduced my via "The Album", which actually had some prog rock and jazz influences (due to the players in the band), and for Blondie, I had the prog rock credentials of Robert Fripp VERY soon after hearing their "European hit", the cover of "Denis".
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