Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5
Topic Options
#2897859 - 12/25/17 09:06 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5920
Loc: Glendale/Ventura, Ca.
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
It's funny how the technology debate is so prevalent in keyboard instruments - and how much size and weight plays a part. The brass, woodwind and string guys aren't phased as much by it all. Players of these little case and carry instruments would still give their left nut for the right Selmer Conn Stradivarius etc.



When I might complain about the state of a piano or having to schlep my keyboard to play and I get a rolleyes from the horn players. I say - hey how would you feel if you couldn't use your ax on gigs ? You are forced to contend with an electronic replication of your vintage Selmer ? Or the horn they give you is leaking air through the pads ? Or as a drummer you are forced to play with electronic pads ? That usually quiets them down real quick. wink
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris







Top
KC Island
#2897863 - 12/25/17 09:41 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Dave Ferris]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6412
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Indeed indeed. Tech changes the gig for the keys player at a very rapid rate. The controller keyboard to computer has trickled down to even community and HS musical theatre. I'm about to install this for an upcoming gig.
https://www.mtishows.com/marketplace/resource/performance/keyboard-patch-solutionstm

I've yet to use a laptop for live playing. And this doesn't appear to be MainStage or Cantabile whch I know some folks here swear by. But whatever, I'll see how it goes. Apparently there will be a second keyboard player and we'll both be usb midi'd up to the laptop. I'll either bring the S90ES or see what the school has for keyboards and if I can live with the action on any. Tech changes - gig changes. this ain't Oklahoma! or Damn Yankees but the score still calls for real brass, reed, violin, and percussion - even guitars, but me and the other keyboard guy will be playing the computer. smile
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2897895 - 12/25/17 03:47 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
A rebuilt is also the more affordable alternative to new. And with a little research and leg work you might find the one for you - with the character and soul in its history that resonates with you like its 230 some odd strings. Like getting your hands on a Rhodes, Wurly or otherwise times 10.

Obviously this isn't about modern gigging - digital stuff is portable and capable of every timbre., Always in tune and doesn't require micing. Right tool for the right job. But for acoustic performance in a parlour (or classical concert hall, etc.) playing un-amplified with other acoustic instruments - also right tool for the right job. 60s/70s stuff sounds great on the real electro mechanicals - but hauling and caring for them is both a luxury and a pain.

It's funny how the technology debate is so prevalent in keyboard instruments - and how much size and weight plays a part. The brass, woodwind and string guys aren't phased as much by it all. Players of these little case and carry instruments would still give their left nut for the right Selmer Conn Stradivarius etc.


And yet many people are equally reluctant to part with their left nut. They just look at you like you said something crazy if you even bring it up.

Top
#2897902 - 12/25/17 04:44 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: BuckW]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6412
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Then it has to be the right. One hangs too low anyway. wink
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2897909 - 12/25/17 05:06 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
Bone Muskeleton Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19893
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
akers. They should take this piano,put it in a corner, surround it with a velvet rope and display it as a historical artifact and have it rebuilt.
Fixed it for you. In fact, with all the great players that have played it, they might be able to get the funds to have Steinway themselves redo the thing

"Get the funds" how exactly? This is a small restaurant. Not a jazz club or any kind of music club. Sure, it would be nice. I only played it once, a while ago, so maybe they've had more work done I'll find out soon. Because hope springs eternal, I'll show up a little early, leave my gear in my trunk, and check it out. Then decide whether to set up my stuff or not. Since this is one of my 2 or 3-times-a-year gig with one of the best jazz drummers on the planet, I'll need to get a really good hit from it to keep my stuff in the car. To get back to your point - rebuilding a piano is pretty expensive. Who's to say this one wasn't a dog to begin with, notwithstanding the name? It was in the Village Gate for years, being pounded on every night! If I was a philanthropist looking to pay for a piano restoration I would search for one that's seen a lot less abuse. The list of pianists that played it is very impressive though, maybe I'll post a pic of the plaque they display with the names!
I'm just an optimist. Wouldn't you love to see them fix the thing up and keep it up? Even from here, where I'll probably never be there to play it, I would.

I understand there are lots of reasons to fix up and not fix up pianos. Sadly, if it doesn't say "Steinway" on it, the piano's chances drop to close to nothing, even if it could be a great one. With the Steinway name and its history, maybe someone would take a shot at it. Or, maybe there's a crowdfunding opportunity there. It might get the word out to some one or several people who would be willing to get it into shape. idk

Again, I'm an optimist. smile

Please do share that plaque. I'd love to see it.
_________________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams Willy Wonka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M0eMkcc91E

Top
#2897916 - 12/25/17 05:19 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
cphollis Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2550
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Man, I seriously investigated the aged piano rebuilding thing a few years ago. Like, serious research.

It's a serious crap shoot -- not only on the outcome, but whether other folks will reward you for your investment. I wisely decided to go for a sure thing on my home AP. No regrets.

I found a few great rebuilding dudes, but they rightly get paid for their labor and talent. It was up to me whether or not I thought it was worth it or not.

Totally sketchy resale market. Not going there.

I'd rather invest in rehabbing real estate smile
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: NP2, NS3C
Home: Bosie 200, Yam AG N3
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC K.2s, EVOX J8, SSv3
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 18

Top
#2897956 - 12/26/17 04:33 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1156
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Since this is one of my 2 or 3-times-a-year gig with one of the best jazz drummers on the planet, I'll need to get a really good hit from it to keep my stuff in the car.

Rob, where are you playing and when? Perhaps I can make it. Who's the drummer?
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/al-quinn-2

Top
#2897958 - 12/26/17 04:47 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Al Quinn]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
The problem with Steinway is the rebuild cost seems to go up more than commensurately.

What's the tallest decent upright and can it get a powerful bass sound on a par with the larger grands?

Top
#2897959 - 12/26/17 04:58 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: BuckW]
Bone Muskeleton Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19893
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: BuckW
What's the tallest decent upright and can it get a powerful bass sound on a par with the larger grands?


_________________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams Willy Wonka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M0eMkcc91E

Top
#2897975 - 12/26/17 06:32 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1156
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
For me digital vs. acoustic really depends on context.

In an acoustic context, like yesterday's Xmas gathering at my house with the extended family, my well-maintained/in tune 6'1" Yamaha C3 conservatory grand was ear candy for all. I played and also listened to others play. The sound was so beautiful and most everyone said how much of a treat it was. My CP4 and TT08As were in the closet with no chance of getting out. In this context the difference is night and day.

I rehearse and jam with an acoustic jazz septet at the bass player's house. He has an acceptably in tune and playable old Story and Clark spinet piano. Here the mediocre acoustic is preferable to the CP4/TT08As rig. The trumpet player once asked why I don't bring my portable rig (because to him it sounds much better). I told him that I can express myself better on the mediocre spinet; that while I agree my portable rig sounds better, I enjoy playing the acoustic more and believe I play better on the acoustic.

I've played gigs where the venue had an incredible Steinway grand but provided a crappy monitor. The most extreme example was a club in NYC where the piano was provided by the Steinway company to the venue for free. It's an incredible instrument. But the monitor was a tiny Mackie on a microphone stand. Although it sounded great to the audience, it sounded like crap to me. I hated it and would have much preferred my CP4/TT08As rig.

Then there's the venue that has a beautiful, well-maintained piano with a good monitor system (e.g., The Iridium, The Blue Note, and The Katherine Hepburn Theater come to mind). Although this is excellent and likely as good as an amplified experience gets, for me it's not as good as a pure acoustic experience. Much of he beauty of the instrument is lost even in this context.

Then there's the gig in a small to medium sized room with a nice acoustic grand that's not amplified. This is best experience but these gigs are few and far between and require that the other players have a good sense of balance: the too loud drummer can really mess this up. Surprisingly, for me most of these have been library gigs. Seems like a silly venue but it actually turns out to be a very enjoyable context (i.e., well maintained / in tune / quality grand piano, no amplification, attentive and appreciative audience).
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/al-quinn-2

Top
#2898013 - 12/26/17 09:54 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Al Quinn]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2881
Loc: NYC area
As Al said, it's all in the context. Once you're in a gigging situation where you have to mic the piano or where you need the help of a monitor speaker to hear yourself, all bets are off. Playing with a loud drummer, or even a dynamically sensitive drummer that happens to play loudly due to the demands of the music, makes it hard to enjoy the experience that playing a good acoustic piano should be. IMO, having a good digital rig i.e., one that you're happy playing where you can control the sound to best match what's happening on the stage, is the better option when compared to fighting a bad acoustic piano or a bad setting for an acoustic piano.

Al, I'm afraid my gig is pretty far from you - Westport Connecticut. It's January 11 (Thursday). Adam Nussbaum is playing drums. I'm happy to post more info if anyone else here is in the vicinity. Hey you'll get to see the piano that was in the Village Gate!! :-)

Top
#2898019 - 12/26/17 10:58 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
Theo Verelst Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 4018
It's not like most digital with available amping can respond and sound like a decent acoustic. So there's that. Maybe some setups or special samples can sound better than an acoustic piano on the same PA. Generally, I perceive it's a lot of work to get a good digital setup to sound alright for advanced piano playing, even on good monitoring in a controlled space, while a decent piano in normal acoustics is usually alright with me. Can't keep up with a Rock band, and that's hard to mike.

T.

Top
#2898098 - 12/27/17 12:58 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Phreakay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3089
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Indeed indeed. Tech changes the gig for the keys player at a very rapid rate. The controller keyboard to computer has trickled down to even community and HS musical theatre. I'm about to install this for an upcoming gig.
https://www.mtishows.com/marketplace/resource/performance/keyboard-patch-solutionstm

I've yet to use a laptop for live playing. And this doesn't appear to be MainStage or Cantabile whch I know some folks here swear by. But whatever, I'll see how it goes. Apparently there will be a second keyboard player and we'll both be usb midi'd up to the laptop. I'll either bring the S90ES or see what the school has for keyboards and if I can live with the action on any. Tech changes - gig changes. this ain't Oklahoma! or Damn Yankees but the score still calls for real brass, reed, violin, and percussion - even guitars, but me and the other keyboard guy will be playing the computer. smile


From brief scan of their site it is a stand alone software that replicates the Kurz performance patches for Broadway shows.

You download the show inside the app but only after you have obtained performance rights from the publisher, and use expires after the last performance specified in the performance rights license.

MainStage and similar do not support limited run times for concerts. So a stand alone app like RMS is essential to limit use for a specified time and only to those with performance rights.
_________________________
MainStage | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"He helped me onto the bottom rung as a musician, from which, I might add, I never ascended" Glyn Johns - Sound Man

Top
#2898100 - 12/27/17 01:37 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3943
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
This is true from what I read. Inexpensive acoustic uprights are in reach of the new middle class in China. Spurred interest by the success of Lang Lang... they are having their Van Cliburn moment. Many goods out of China are in their next stage of higher quality. I would not be surprised to see a Chinese piano brand someday rival Kawai or Yamaha. At the same time I've been pleasantly surprised by Petrof on more than one occasion.


I have heard from some techs that modern Chinese pianos are mechanically excellent, and a better value than older, pre-owned Japanese pianos.
_________________________
connect


Top
#2898111 - 12/27/17 05:04 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 1156
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Al, I'm afraid my gig is pretty far from you - Westport Connecticut. It's January 11 (Thursday). Adam Nussbaum is playing drums. I'm happy to post more info if anyone else here is in the vicinity. Hey you'll get to see the piano that was in the Village Gate!! :-)

Have a great gig Rob. It looks like you'll be about 2 hours from me and that's without the inevitable traffic. So, unfortunately I won't make it. Sounds like a great gig - enjoy. Would love some video or audio if possible. I saw Adam play a few times with some no name jazz pianists: Kirkland and Calderazzo lol! That was with the Michael Breaker band many moons ago and everyone was incredible.
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/al-quinn-2

Top
#2898114 - 12/27/17 05:21 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: zephonic]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6254
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
This is true from what I read. Inexpensive acoustic uprights are in reach of the new middle class in China. Spurred interest by the success of Lang Lang... they are having their Van Cliburn moment. Many goods out of China are in their next stage of higher quality. I would not be surprised to see a Chinese piano brand someday rival Kawai or Yamaha. At the same time I've been pleasantly surprised by Petrof on more than one occasion.


I have heard from some techs that modern Chinese pianos are mechanically excellent, and a better value than older, pre-owned Japanese pianos.


My friend who is a tuner said most are terrible and not well made. I am not surprised. I value his opinion. It may be that there are higher end models?
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


Top
#2898309 - 12/28/17 09:32 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Outkaster]
Bone Muskeleton Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19893
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I have heard from some techs that modern Chinese pianos are mechanically excellent, and a better value than older, pre-owned Japanese pianos.


My friend who is a tuner said most are terrible and not well made. I am not surprised. I value his opinion. It may be that there are higher end models?
I've heard similar to Zeph. I think *some* of the Chinese pianos have improved in recent years. Like anything else, you can't just say "Chinese [pianos in this case] are great" or "Chinese [things] are crap." It can depend on the brand. Overall, I think they've been improving.

I don't know him, but I suspect your tech may be talking about older Chinese pianos. Frankly, some of these guys get pretty stuck in the past. I had a tech here once to look at my old Kranich & Bach, and I almost threw him out. Even though he's certified on Yamaha, at one point he started doing that "asian accent" thing when talking about Asian pianos. rolleyes mad I'm not saying your guy is like that.


Edited by Joe BrokeIt (12/28/17 09:33 AM)
_________________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams Willy Wonka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M0eMkcc91E

Top
#2898315 - 12/28/17 09:47 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6412
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Chinese products have and will continue to improve and eventually they will have brand names associated with quality. Took Japan a while and yet now they've Toyota to Yamaha and everything in between.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2898385 - 12/28/17 03:29 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
Japan had Deming to show them the way.

Top
#2898391 - 12/28/17 04:09 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
cphollis Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2550
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Where the better Chinese pianos do well is bang-for-buck, at least in my opinion. Especially if you're prioritizing a nice piece of furniture vs. musical qualities.

Been there, done that, never going back. A reasonable choice of home AP grand didn't work out, but led me to my Bosie, so not all bad, right?
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: NP2, NS3C
Home: Bosie 200, Yam AG N3
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC K.2s, EVOX J8, SSv3
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 18

Top
#2901652 - 01/12/18 11:45 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2881
Loc: NYC area
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
[quote=Reezekeys]They should take this piano,put it in a corner, surround it with a velvet rope and display it as a historical artifact and have it rebuilt.

Fixed it for you. In fact, with all the great players that have played it, they might be able to get the funds to have Steinway themselves redo the thing

"Get the funds" how exactly? This is a small restaurant. Not a jazz club or any kind of music club. Sure, it would be nice. I only played it once, a while ago, so maybe they've had more work done I'll find out soon. Because hope springs eternal, I'll show up a little early, leave my gear in my trunk, and check it out. Then decide whether to set up my stuff or not. Since this is one of my 2 or 3-times-a-year gig with one of the best jazz drummers on the planet, I'll need to get a really good hit from it to keep my stuff in the car. To get back to your point - rebuilding a piano is pretty expensive. Who's to say this one wasn't a dog to begin with, notwithstanding the name? It was in the Village Gate for years, being pounded on every night! If I was a philanthropist looking to pay for a piano restoration I would search for one that's seen a lot less abuse. The list of pianists that played it is very impressive though, maybe I'll post a pic of the plaque they display with the names!

I'm just an optimist. Wouldn't you love to see them fix the thing up and keep it up? Even from here, where I'll probably never be there to play it, I would.

I understand there are lots of reasons to fix up and not fix up pianos. Sadly, if it doesn't say "Steinway" on it, the piano's chances drop to close to nothing, even if it could be a great one. With the Steinway name and its history, maybe someone would take a shot at it. Or, maybe there's a crowdfunding opportunity there. It might get the word out to some one or several people who would be willing to get it into shape. idk

Again, I'm an optimist. smile

Please do share that plaque. I'd love to see it.

Quoting a lot up there for context in returning to this somewhat old thread. Last night was the gig I talked about. Below is the plaque with the list of names of the pianists that played this piano. They framed it under glass and put it on the wall, which made taking a picture difficult but it should be readable. I actually know every name there except one: Allen Botschinsky. And "Patti Brown" is a typo her name is Patti Bown. As it happened I did not get to the club early so didn't check out the piano I just brought my gear in and set it up in a rather imperfect way (one of my two QSCs was on the piano itself, at ear level not great for me at all, but there was very little space to work with).

Joe, you'll be happy to know that there are plans for the piano to be completely rebuilt. The restaurant is not involved. There is a local "jazz society" that's raising funds for this. I wish them the best. A 1937 piano that was probably used 360+ days/year for over 50 years might not be the best candidate for a rebuild, but of course I know nothing about this subject.

[edit - the elevator just got to the top floor and I realized that the Village Gate wasn't around in 1937! If it was the only piano used for the whole run of the club, it got used 360+ days a year for 30 years, not 50 (the club opened in 1958)! I still feel sorry for the poor thing!]

The kicker to all this? Here's what they do now, when a band that uses drums plays there: they put a mic on the piano and plug said mic into an old guitar amp! I didn't get the brand but could see it under the piano; it looked like a typical (and well-worn) 2x 12" amp. Now for another conundrum, perhaps the subject of another thread: let's say you wanted to (rightly) ditch the mic and play acoustically. Let's say we're in the future, the piano was rebuilt and sounds spectacular. Well then, you'd only need to compete with the sounds of the TV sets and loud conversation in the bar area next to the dining room! Sorry, I'll be staying with the laptop rig.



Edited by Reezekeys (01/12/18 02:27 PM)

Top
#2901690 - 01/12/18 04:05 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6412
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Very cool for you to come back to the thread and share this.
like
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2901698 - 01/12/18 04:56 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: ElmerJFudd]
p19978 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 137
Loc: KY
All you have to do is play an Eastman guitar to know that the Chinese can, and do, build quality instruments.

Top
#2901834 - 01/13/18 11:39 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 6254
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I have heard from some techs that modern Chinese pianos are mechanically excellent, and a better value than older, pre-owned Japanese pianos.


My friend who is a tuner said most are terrible and not well made. I am not surprised. I value his opinion. It may be that there are higher end models?
I've heard similar to Zeph. I think *some* of the Chinese pianos have improved in recent years. Like anything else, you can't just say "Chinese [pianos in this case] are great" or "Chinese [things] are crap." It can depend on the brand. Overall, I think they've been improving.

I don't know him, but I suspect your tech may be talking about older Chinese pianos. Frankly, some of these guys get pretty stuck in the past. I had a tech here once to look at my old Kranich & Bach, and I almost threw him out. Even though he's certified on Yamaha, at one point he started doing that "asian accent" thing when talking about Asian pianos. rolleyes mad I'm not saying your guy is like that.


Yeah it could be. he is going to do a couple tunings for me at some point Joe, I will ask them again. I really need to get a good acoustic. I had to turn down a Steinway upright some years back. I didn't have anywhere to put it...
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


Top
#2901843 - 01/13/18 12:14 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Outkaster]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5920
Loc: Glendale/Ventura, Ca.
The Fazioli often get a bad rep for being too bright or clinical sounding. Often individual recordings can be not flattering, along with less then ideal room acoustics and probably most important -- lack of good prep by a good tech well skilled in working on the Fazioli.

Here's a new video of a pre-owned F278 from 2000. It's at Piano Works in Atlanta. An excellent recording by the owner, Sam Bennett. Along with outstanding playing. A spectacular sounding piano !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kT9Ls6BqVI


For the home, the 228 is my favorite model. A friend has one in his home and it sounds glorious !
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris







Top
#2901847 - 01/13/18 12:43 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Al Quinn]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 7025
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
For me digital vs. acoustic really depends on context.

In an acoustic context, like yesterday's Xmas gathering at my house with the extended family, my well-maintained/in tune 6'1" Yamaha C3 conservatory grand was ear candy for all. I played and also listened to others play. The sound was so beautiful and most everyone said how much of a treat it was. My CP4 and TT08As were in the closet with no chance of getting out. In this context the difference is night and day.

I rehearse and jam with an acoustic jazz septet at the bass player's house. He has an acceptably in tune and playable old Story and Clark spinet piano. Here the mediocre acoustic is preferable to the CP4/TT08As rig. The trumpet player once asked why I don't bring my portable rig (because to him it sounds much better). I told him that I can express myself better on the mediocre spinet; that while I agree my portable rig sounds better, I enjoy playing the acoustic more and believe I play better on the acoustic.

I've played gigs where the venue had an incredible Steinway grand but provided a crappy monitor. The most extreme example was a club in NYC where the piano was provided by the Steinway company to the venue for free. It's an incredible instrument. But the monitor was a tiny Mackie on a microphone stand. Although it sounded great to the audience, it sounded like crap to me. I hated it and would have much preferred my CP4/TT08As rig.

Then there's the venue that has a beautiful, well-maintained piano with a good monitor system (e.g., The Iridium, The Blue Note, and The Katherine Hepburn Theater come to mind). Although this is excellent and likely as good as an amplified experience gets, for me it's not as good as a pure acoustic experience. Much of he beauty of the instrument is lost even in this context.

Then there's the gig in a small to medium sized room with a nice acoustic grand that's not amplified. This is best experience but these gigs are few and far between and require that the other players have a good sense of balance: the too loud drummer can really mess this up. Surprisingly, for me most of these have been library gigs. Seems like a silly venue but it actually turns out to be a very enjoyable context (i.e., well maintained / in tune / quality grand piano, no amplification, attentive and appreciative audience).


All of this is golden.. I loved every word.

In those rare instances of good piano in a library.. tell the drummer to play brushes and snare ONLY... or to stay home.

I played a 7.5 hour gig on an awful DP ( Tyros ) and the drummer brought a snare with his brushes... no cymbals, no bass drum, just the snare drum with brushes. Let me tell you, I was pleasantly surprised how much I liked it.
Of course the drummer has to be acceptably talented.
_________________________
Live and let live. Always has been a meaningless platitude until Now. Live and LET LIVE.

Top
#2901865 - 01/13/18 03:14 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
Bone Muskeleton Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19893
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Reezekeys

Quoting a lot up there for context in returning to this somewhat old thread. Last night was the gig I talked about. Below is the plaque with the list of names of the pianists that played this piano. They framed it under glass and put it on the wall, which made taking a picture difficult but it should be readable. I actually know every name there except one: Allen Botschinsky. And "Patti Brown" is a typo her name is Patti Bown. As it happened I did not get to the club early so didn't check out the piano I just brought my gear in and set it up in a rather imperfect way (one of my two QSCs was on the piano itself, at ear level not great for me at all, but there was very little space to work with).

Joe, you'll be happy to know that there are plans for the piano to be completely rebuilt. The restaurant is not involved. There is a local "jazz society" that's raising funds for this. I wish them the best. A 1937 piano that was probably used 360+ days/year for over 50 years might not be the best candidate for a rebuild, but of course I know nothing about this subject.

[edit - the elevator just got to the top floor and I realized that the Village Gate wasn't around in 1937! If it was the only piano used for the whole run of the club, it got used 360+ days a year for 30 years, not 50 (the club opened in 1958)! I still feel sorry for the poor thing!]

The kicker to all this? Here's what they do now, when a band that uses drums plays there: they put a mic on the piano and plug said mic into an old guitar amp! I didn't get the brand but could see it under the piano; it looked like a typical (and well-worn) 2x 12" amp. Now for another conundrum, perhaps the subject of another thread: let's say you wanted to (rightly) ditch the mic and play acoustically. Let's say we're in the future, the piano was rebuilt and sounds spectacular. Well then, you'd only need to compete with the sounds of the TV sets and loud conversation in the bar area next to the dining room! Sorry, I'll be staying with the laptop rig.

Thanks for the report! I hope it turns out to be an excellent rebuild and you decide that you will play it every chance you get.
_________________________
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams Willy Wonka

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M0eMkcc91E

Top
#2901869 - 01/13/18 03:44 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2881
Loc: NYC area
I will always appreciate playing a good acoustic piano in the right setting no matter how infrequently I get to do it. Actually, the more infrequent, the more I appreciate it!

I'm also glad that I have a digital rig that I'm happy playing, since the unfortunate fact is that, imo, many things have to come together to make for a satisfying time playing a gig on acoustic piano with a band that includes drums (and on this particular night electric guitar as well).

Top
#2901871 - 01/13/18 03:58 PM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Reezekeys]
cphollis Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2550
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
My take is that real acoustic pianos are like fine Scotches. Nuanced, charismatic, quirky. In the right setting, totally amazing.

And totally worth the $$$.

I would never, ever consider playing a real AP live. I just wouldn't trust the setup. Bad tuning, bad action, bad miking -- just too much that can go wrong.

Better to bring my digitals.

A friend who does sound for a local church was asking about this. I said "go for a digital hybrid", e.g. AvantGrand or similar. All of the fun, none of the hassle.
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: NP2, NS3C
Home: Bosie 200, Yam AG N3
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC K.2s, EVOX J8, SSv3
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 18

Top
#2901915 - 01/14/18 05:05 AM Re: The Great Piano Pushback [Re: Outkaster]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 283
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
[quote=zephonic]I have heard from some techs that modern Chinese pianos are mechanically excellent, and a better value than older, pre-owned Japanese pianos.


My friend who is a tuner said most are terrible and not well made. I am not surprised. I value his opinion. It may be that there are higher end models?
I've heard similar to Zeph. I think *some* of the Chinese pianos have improved in recent years. Like anything else, you can't just say "Chinese [pianos in this case] are great" or "Chinese [things] are crap." It can depend on the brand. Overall, I think they've been improving.

I don't know him, but I suspect your tech may be talking about older Chinese pianos. Frankly, some of these guys get pretty stuck in the past. I had a tech here once to look at my old Kranich & Bach, and I almost threw him out. Even though he's certified on Yamaha, at one point he started doing that "asian accent" thing when talking about Asian pianos. rolleyes mad I'm not saying your guy is like that.


Yeah it could be. he is going to do a couple tunings for me at some point Joe, I will ask them again. I really need to get a good acoustic. I had to turn down a Steinway upright some years back. I didn't have anywhere to put it... [/quote]

You mean turn down a gift? I'd make room for a tall Steinway upright. Whatever I've got can go first.

Top
Page 5 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5


Moderator:  Grave Bryce, Stephen Fortner