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SP6


Coker

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Adding a set of knobs adds cost - way more than you'd expect. The cost of components was the biggest surprise for me when I got hired there back in 2000. When manufacturing on a tiny scale (thousands not millions of units), every tiny little thing is a pound of flesh so to speak. It made product planning really tricky and sometimes painful.

 

The cost thing is all the more challenging for an outfit like Kurz, where they're using high quality balanced outs, multiple pedal inputs, killer EQs and filters, and super quiet samples - all areas where other companies often decide to cut costs.

 

 

The PC3 didn't have dedicated front panel EQ knobs. But it had a master EQ and Compressor accessible in the FX menu. The SP6 has more FX horse power than the PC3. Maybe a similar EQ/Comp approach could be implemented in a future update?

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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But the chances of the action on the SP6 playing like your CP4 is low... isn't it? CP4 - 38.58lbs, SP6 - 27.25lbs. Grr! :pop:

 

But does the CP4 get a bump in 2018 with sounds off the Montage?

Does the PX-5S get a bump in 2018 with touch screen and new patches?

 

But yeah, I feel you... the SP6 has me a bit itchy too if it isn't obvious.

Must find a shop near me with it on the floor.

Forte 7 is too expensive at $3.5k and I don't typically like the TP100 on the SE - and that's $2.5k too.

muttering to myself.

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Does the PX-5S get a bump in 2018 with touch screen and new patches?

 

I hope not.... or at least not the one currently employed by them on the new boards.

Granted, it's subjective, but I really dislike that tiny touchscreen.

 

I really would love to see an updated PX5S that has features many of who us own and use one have been clamoring for.

 

Right now, Kurzweil is in the lead for my money with the SP6 should I finally decide to update.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, I don't know what path Casio will take on the 5S but there is definitely room for improvement on the UI for getting into the deeper settings and edits. This is cool, stuff is heating up in the sub $1.5k area and weight is a consideration in design.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Thanks for your thoughts about the SP6. As I know you have gigged with the Casio PX-5S, could you compare the feel and playability of the SP6 action to that of the Casio?

 

Hey Bill,

 

I really like the PX5s action. CASIO has done a great job with that design. The SP6 is very nice, too... maybe a little less heavy than the Privia? No... that's not it... not really about weight... maybe less... I don't know... piano-esque? The design of the PX5s action is really cool. The SP6 reminds me of something more Yamaha MOX8 like, but definitely not that cheesy.

 

I like them both, honestly. The PX5s has the cool 'simulated ivory' keys, which I really like.

 

But the SP6 is very playable. The organs are even playable on it. I dig it.

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Thanks for your thoughts about the SP6. As I know you have gigged with the Casio PX-5S, could you compare the feel and playability of the SP6 action to that of the Casio?

 

Hey Bill,

 

I really like the PX5s action. CASIO has done a great job with that design. The SP6 is very nice, too... maybe a little less heavy than the Privia? No... that's not it... not really about weight... maybe less... I don't know... piano-esque? The design of the PX5s action is really cool. The SP6 reminds me of something more Yamaha MOX8 like, but definitely not that cheesy.

 

I like them both, honestly. The PX5s has the cool 'simulated ivory' keys, which I really like.

 

But the SP6 is very playable. The organs are even playable on it. I dig it.

 

Thank you for your take on this. I always appreciate your thoughts since you own and gig with these things.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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You're welcome.

 

Kurzweil has done a great job voicing the sounds to work well with the keybed they use. The pianos play really naturally, with great response to dynamics. Ditto for the EPs. I'm really enjoying the SP6. I'm loaning it to a friend for his gig Wednesday. He's more of a pianist than I am, so I'm looking forward to hearing what he thinks about it.

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I haven't played the SP6, but as I've mentioned before, I know the KA90 which uses the same action, which I described as being vaguely similar to Yamaha GHS. But as people have mentioned, even the GHS seems to feel a bit different on different boards that have used it, so I hesitate to judge the SP6 feel based only on my KA90 experience. There are variables related to how well the programmers have been able to establish that mysterious connection between feel and sound, perhaps differences in the physical mounting of the action that can affect the feel in one board vs. another, and who knows what else.

 

But based on the KA90, my thought is that the PX5S action feels more solid, more elegant, more "piano like" in a sense, but OTOH, probably a bit more sluggish as well. I'm definitely eager to check out the SP6, though as I mentioned, it's a tough call for me as to whether I'd want to replace my Artis7, each of these has some real advantages over the other.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm definitely eager to check out the SP6, though as I mentioned, it's a tough call for me as to whether I'd want to replace my Artis7, each of these has some real advantages over the other.

 

Same here. The SP6 is tempting. But I also love my Artis 7 which is not only a great lightweight stagepiano which loads all my PC3 programs but also a crafty Midi masterkeyboard. It's fun to have complete control over Korg Module f.e.

LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-)

 

 

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Jim,

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about the PX-5s compared to SP6s keybed. It does seem that Casio has a special place with regard to a great feeling keybed at a low weight and low price point. I am not opposed to the Yamaha GHS keyboard that has been mentioned as being similar to the SP6 keybed. I know others have expressed a dislike for the Yamaha, but if the velocity curves are mapped well to the action of the SP6, the trade off in arguably better sound and the inclusion of an expression pedal input, give the edge for me to the SP6 over my Casio.

 

Now, to decide between pairing the SP6 and a new clonewheel for a light weight live rig or keeping the Px-5s and pairing it with a NS3. First option is less expensive, but the NS3 would be a great do-it-all board for gigs where I wanted to leave the 88 at home. I think I am going to move away from my Kronos 61 no matter what I decide.

 

Thanks for your thoughts about the SP6. As I know you have gigged with the Casio PX-5S, could you compare the feel and playability of the SP6 action to that of the Casio?

 

Hey Bill,

 

I really like the PX5s action. CASIO has done a great job with that design. The SP6 is very nice, too... maybe a little less heavy than the Privia? No... that's not it... not really about weight... maybe less... I don't know... piano-esque? The design of the PX5s action is really cool. The SP6 reminds me of something more Yamaha MOX8 like, but definitely not that cheesy.

 

I like them both, honestly. The PX5s has the cool 'simulated ivory' keys, which I really like.

 

But the SP6 is very playable. The organs are even playable on it. I dig it.

Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.
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But based on the KA90, my thought is that the PX5S action feels more solid, more elegant, more "piano like" in a sense, but OTOH, probably a bit more sluggish as well.

 

That's a good way to put it. Although 'sluggish' sounds bad, it's not really a bad thing; it's just more 'pianistic' than the SP6.

 

Yes, Kurzweil did voice the sounds very well for the keybed. They play great.

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I have been research which Kurzweil to purchase. I was originally looking at the Forte. I looked at the SP6 but eliminated it because of its plastic construction. Finially I have settled on the Artis 7. While it is an older platform than the Forte, the panel configuration is almost identical. The Forte screen is much larger and has twice the processing power but it costs more than twice as much (and I am still not clear if the Forte is plastic construction or not).

 

There is a good selection of sound comparisons on Youtube between the Forte and the Artis 7. The differences, if any, are insignificant to me.

Thomas Shea

Nebraska

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There is a good selection of sound comparisons on Youtube between the Forte and the Artis 7. The differences, if any, are insignificant to me.

There are definitely differences. I think the sound set comparison is this:

 

* Forte and Artis7 both have the complete PC3 sample set, and all PC3 programs are available online and can be loaded into either of them.

 

* They both have the Kore64 sample set as well... however I don't know that the original full set of Kore64 programs are available online, so in terms of factory programs, you may be limited to the Kore64 programs that these boards happen to include. Kore64 sounds are primarily guitars, brass, woodwinds, and drums. (Also some synth sounds.)

 

* Both have an updated (i.e. better than triple-strike) Steinway grand, but the Forte has the biggest version, Artis7 has the smallest version (Forte SE and SP6 have something in between). Larger versions employ more sample data, so may include more velocity layers or less sample stretching or looping... I'm not sure what the detailed differences are, though they are all derived from the same master sample set.

 

* Kurzweil's other updated quality grand (Yamaha) is in the Forte at full size, in the Forte SE and SP6 at a smaller size, and not in the Artis7 at all.

 

* Forte (and also Forte SE and SP6) also include an additional new sample set, which consists of Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clav, Harpsichord, Orchestral Percussion, Celeste, Glockenspiel, Chimes, Bells and Crotales. These are not in the Artis7. (Of course, Artis7 still has these kinds of sounds, plenty of Rhodes/Wurli/Clav for example, but only the ones from the original PC3 sample set, and not the ones that use the improved sample set of the Forte/SP6.)

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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There is a good selection of sound comparisons on Youtube between the Forte and the Artis 7. The differences, if any, are insignificant to me.

There are definitely differences. I think the sound set comparison is this:

 

* Forte and Artis7 both have the complete PC3 sample set, and all PC3 programs are available online and can be loaded into either of them.

 

* They both have the Kore64 sample set as well... however I don't know that the original full set of Kore64 programs are available online, so in terms of factory programs, you may be limited to the Kore64 programs that these boards happen to include. Kore64 sounds are primarily guitars, brass, woodwinds, and drums. (Also some synth sounds.)

 

* Both have an updated (i.e. better than triple-strike) Steinway grand, but the Forte has the biggest version, Artis7 has the smallest version (Forte SE and SP6 have something in between). Larger versions employ more sample data, so may include more velocity layers or less sample stretching or looping... I'm not sure what the detailed differences are, though they are all derived from the same master sample set.

 

* Kurzweil's other updated quality grand (Yamaha) is in the Forte at full size, in the Forte SE and SP6 at a smaller size, and not in the Artis7 at all.

 

* Forte (and also Forte SE and SP6) also include an additional new sample set, which consists of Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clav, Harpsichord, Orchestral Percussion, Celeste, Glockenspiel, Chimes, Bells and Crotales. These are not in the Artis7. (Of course, Artis7 still has these kinds of sounds, plenty of Rhodes/Wurli/Clav for example, but only the ones from the original PC3 sample set, and not the ones that use the improved sample set of the Forte/SP6.)

 

 

A few other differences:

 

Artis7 has the TP8 semi-weighted action. It's a good little guy, tiny footprint.

 

The SP6 and Forte/Forte7 have hammer actions. (Albeit ones that are friendly for quick passages, but still hammer weighted) Forte7 and SP6 also have small footprints.

 

SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste and Glock.

 

Forte has full versions of Steinway, Yamaha, Rhodes 73, Rhodes 77, Wurly, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste, Glock and assorted bells/chimes.

 

Both Forte and SP6 have twice the FX power of Artis/PC3 and both have superior KB3 organs.

 

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A few other differences:

 

Artis7 has the TP8 semi-weighted action. It's a good little guy, tiny footprint.

 

The SP6 and Forte/Forte7 have hammer actions.

I was just talking about sonic differences, but yeah, there are other significant differences. In particular, I really like the 16 x 16 direct sound selection matrix of the Artis7, and the display that shows the names of what is currently assigned to the 16 patch select buttons, and the 9 sliders (especially since I added OBDave's cool drawbar knobs to them). Kind of nice to have the internal power supply, too. It's making it harder for me to decide to get an SP6, as tempting as it is. I wish they were still doing software upgrades to the Artis7, there are some interface things that could be improved, but I guess that ship has sailed.

 

SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste and Glock.

 

Forte has full versions of Steinway, Yamaha, Rhodes 73, Rhodes 77, Wurly, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste, Glock and assorted bells/chimes.

Ah! I knew that the two pianos were reduced in size compared to the Forte, I didn't know those other instruments' sample sets were scaled back as well, though it certainly makes sense considering the 16 GB vs 2 GB flashplay size. Ditto for the new bells/chimes in the Forte but not the SP6.

 

Both Forte and SP6 have twice the FX power of Artis/PC3 and both have superior KB3 organs.

Interesting, I knew the Forte had the "polyphony free" organ, but didn't know there was any difference between the SP6 organ and the Artis7/PC3 organ. Can you describe the difference(s)?

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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A few other differences:

 

SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav .....

 

 

I could certainly hear that, especially on Rhodes 73, velocity layer jumped too quickly from soft to hard sound, skipping "medium" layer. I'm wondering if this can be corrected with software update.

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SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav

 

I could certainly hear that, especially on Rhodes 73, velocity layer jumped too quickly from soft to hard sound, skipping "medium" layer. I'm wondering if this can be corrected with software update.

You're talking to the right guy. Dave is working on some custom sounds for the SP6, including EPs. I'm sure they will be great!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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A few other differences:

 

Artis7 has the TP8 semi-weighted action. It's a good little guy, tiny footprint.

 

The SP6 and Forte/Forte7 have hammer actions. (Albeit ones that are friendly for quick passages, but still hammer weighted) Forte7 and SP6 also have small footprints.

 

SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste and Glock.

 

Forte has full versions of Steinway, Yamaha, Rhodes 73, Rhodes 77, Wurly, Clav, Harpsi, Celeste, Glock and assorted bells/chimes.

 

Both Forte and SP6 have twice the FX power of Artis/PC3 and both have superior KB3 organs.

Are there any plans for a Nord-like ~20 lb / 42" long "back-packable" 73 / 76 key version of the SP6?

 

The SP6 88 is too long (~52.5") to lay across the back seat of my car.

 

Sorry for the whining...

 

 

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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Given your weight and key length request, I have to assume the variant you desire would be a synth action, ya? Because Nord does not do a hammer action instrument in 73/76 keys and definitely don't make the requested weight on their models that do have weighted actions. In fact, Kurzweil and Nord both get their actions from Fatar. Kurzweil is pulling off the SP6 weight on an 88k hammer action by using Medeli and a plastic construction (like Casio did on the PX-5S). Nord doesn't do plastic build instruments nor have they ever attempted a price point like $1295.

 

However, if the SP6 is a hit, maybe they would do a shorter synth action version. I know I wonder if they'll do a synth action Forte or Forte SE. Maybe when the Artis7 is discontinued.

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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A few other differences:

 

SP6 has reduced versions of the Steinway and Yamaha pianos, Rhodes 73, Clav .....

 

 

I could certainly hear that, especially on Rhodes 73, velocity layer jumped too quickly from soft to hard sound, skipping "medium" layer. I'm wondering if this can be corrected with software update.

 

Hmm maybe you played a very early version or didn't get enough time with it... while the SP6 Rhodes is reduced, it actually has 8 velocity layers (8 distinct sets of samples from ppp to fff). The programs are all fairly different though. Curious - where/when did you play one?

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Interesting, I knew the Forte had the "polyphony free" organ, but didn't know there was any difference between the SP6 organ and the Artis7/PC3 organ. Can you describe the difference(s)?

 

The Artis does not have or use the "double Leslie" KB3 programs from the PC3.

 

The SP6 does.

 

I believe the Forte has a few of them that were added in recent OS updates. (They couldn't get them working at the time of release. I have been providing all of the PC3 double Leslie KB3 programs to any Forte owners who want them, free of charge.)

 

The double Leslie versions are a good bit nicer.

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The Artis does not have or use the "double Leslie" KB3 programs from the PC3.

 

The SP6 does.

That's surprising, since the Artis7 has 16 fx units just like the PC3/PC3A/PC3K. I thought only the 10-fx unit models (PC3LE, SP4, SP5) were incapable of the double leslie.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Given your weight and key length request, I have to assume the variant you desire would be a synth action, ya? Because Nord does not do a hammer action instrument in 73/76 keys and definitely don't make the requested weight on their models that do have weighted actions.

They've made a whole bunch of them. All the "HP" models with the TP100. Electro 3/4/5HP, Stage 2EX/3 HP76, Piano 2 HP.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The HP/TP100 models don't make 20lbs though.

Only the synth/organ action 73k models get close to 20lbs, just over. To get under 20lbs you need to go 61k synth/organ action.

 

I am really hoping the SP6 Medeli plays nicer than a HP/TP100. Strangely Kurzweil uses the TP100 in the Forte SE but only gets weight down to 40.8lbs. And at that weight there's other stage pianos that I'd prefer to play - though lacking the KB3, FX and synthesis of the Kurzweil. Always a compromise.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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The HP/TP100 models don't make 20lbs though.

Only the synth/organ action 73k models get close to 20lbs, just over.

The HP models are not so far from that. Nord Piano 2HP and Electro 3/4HP were 24.25. (NE5HP is 25.13)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Given your weight and key length request, I have to assume the variant you desire would be a synth action, ya? Because Nord does not do a hammer action instrument in 73/76 keys and definitely don't make the requested weight on their models that do have weighted actions. In fact, Kurzweil and Nord both get their actions from Fatar. Kurzweil is pulling off the SP6 weight on an 88k hammer action by using Medeli and a plastic construction (like Casio did on the PX-5S). Nord doesn't do plastic build instruments nor have they ever attempted a price point like $1295.

 

However, if the SP6 is a hit, maybe they would do a shorter synth action version. I know I wonder if they'll do a synth action Forte or Forte SE. Maybe when the Artis7 is discontinued.

 

I could live with a decent semi-weighted compromise action if a 42" long 73/ 76 key version of the SP6 came in at ~20lbs like the Nord 5D 73. FWIW... The 73 key hammer action weighted Nord 5HP is ~42" long and 25 lbs.

 

WRG to semi-weighted actions... I actually find that the Medeli action of the Kurz SP4-7, which I have, is a decent compromise for piano. The Hammond SK1 / SK2, which I also have, and Nord Electro actions I've played are a bit too "springy" for me to comfortably play piano.

 

My favorite semi-weighted action was on my old Kurz SP76 which I played a lot on 10 - 15 years ago. Even though I believe it was Fatar TP8 (?), I seem to recall that it didn't seem as springy/ resistant as some of the other boards with TP8 I've played. I also recall that I somewhat liked the semi-weighted action on the Alesis QS6 which I played a lot on in the mid- late 90's

 

BTW.. I'm an old week-end warrior with a bad knee and back, and I tend to gig on small stages in dives hence my obsession with small footprints and weight. I usually gig with an SP4-7 for AP / EP on the bottom tier and a Hammond SK1 on the top tier. The resultant footprint is tiny and the total weight of both boards is ~39 lbs. But I miss having real-time control knobs & sliders on the SP4-7 that are on the Artis 7 which I'm very interested in. Of course both the Artis 7 and SP6 also have a much larger number of better sounds than the SP4-7.

 

I would add that I'm also eyeing the Nord 5D 73, assuming its semi-weighted action is improved for piano vs. older Electros. But the NE5d 73 is much more expensive than either the Kurz Artis 7 or SP6 and its limitations on splits, layers, Midi, and lack of pitch bend/ mod concern me. The Nord 5HP is running ~$3000 and not on my radar.

 

If a 20 lb / 42" long 7x key version of the SP6 were to come along with decent semi-weighted action, similar to the Kurz SP4-7 or the old SP76, I would probably jump on it, especially if it was a few hundred bucks less expensive than the Artis 7 (~$1700) which the SP6 88 already is (~$1300).

 

 

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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