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#2895239 - 12/11/17 05:05 PM Winter NAMM 2018 Reports
Geoff Grace Offline
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As most of you know, the 2018 Winter NAMM Show will begin Thursday, January 25th at the Anaheim Convention Center, and run through Sunday, the 28th. This year, I've decided to create three threads: 1) an advance thread for speculation, wish lists, and early product announcements, or "NAMMticipation" as I like to call it, 2) an advance thread for planning: how to get passes, when and where to meet up with other forum members, etc., and 3) the traditional NAMM Reports thread for product announcements, videos, and reports from members on what and who they saw at the Convention Center.

This, of course, is the traditional NAMM Reports thread.

Please post your Winter NAMM 2018 reports here, for forum members who are not fortunate enough to go to the show.

Feel free to discuss NAMM announced gear, events, and performances in this thread.

Best,

Geoff
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#2903012 - 01/18/18 08:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Online   content
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Registered: 10/06/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
More Korg news, D1 digital piano:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/digitalpianos/d1/

and Konnekt portable PA:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/amplifiers/konnect/

They have all their new NAMM products up on their site.
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#2903021 - 01/18/18 08:35 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Adan Offline
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Loc: San Francisco
Korg D1 is interesting stab at portability at "35 lbs including stand." For me, something like that in a 73 or 76 key version would really hit the nail on the head. From a portability standpoint, I'd rather stick with my Grandstage 73 at 38 lbs.
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#2903054 - 01/18/18 09:40 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Adan]
FJR Offline
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Loc: SF Bay

No expression pedal input, no usb, not a good option for controller... frown

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#2903058 - 01/18/18 09:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: FJR]
Dockeys Offline
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Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 162
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
Looks like the D1 is in the same league as the Yamaha p115 and the kawai equivalent but it doesnít have built in speakers. Donít know what the weight is as it only includes a weight of 35lbs with the stand but no weight without. Iím guessing itís still heavier than the competition? Looks compact enough but not really grabbing me.

That portable pa looks like it might work as a small on stage monitor akin to the Helicon FX150? Again I canít find the spl though it says it has 180 watts with a 6.5Ē woofer. Has the added advantage of a Bluetooth connection. I like the look of that KR55 drum machine though.....

http://www.korg.com/us/products/drums/kr55pro/
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#2903063 - 01/18/18 09:59 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: FJR]
smanzella Offline
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Registered: 09/03/08
Posts: 310
Loc: New Orleans, Louisiana
I don't think Korg designed it with the controller purpose in mind. Looks like a simple portable piano that does the portable piano thing really well. This is probably aimed more at players like me who do almost exclusively jazz or piano-centric gigs every night and just need good acoustic and electric piano functionality. I would be very interested in owning one. I wonder what it's going to sell for?
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#2903070 - 01/18/18 10:09 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: smanzella]
zephonic Online   content
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I missed this somehow, but UA has announced a new audio interface:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/16/universal-audio-new-arrow-bus-powered-dsp-interface/

Breaking with their long tradition, this one is actually affordable at $499
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#2903095 - 01/18/18 11:39 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: smanzella]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
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Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: smanzella
I don't think Korg designed it with the controller purpose in mind. Looks like a simple portable piano that does the portable piano thing really well. This is probably aimed more at players like me who do almost exclusively jazz or piano-centric gigs every night and just need good acoustic and electric piano functionality. I would be very interested in owning one. I wonder what it's going to sell for?


My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115. I like the RH3 but it's not as universally beloved as, say, the CP4. I never need 88 keys and the extra length often an issue for transport and on small stages, so for me personally the D1 misses the mark, though not by much.
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#2903102 - 01/18/18 12:25 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Adan]
PianoManChuck Offline
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#2903120 - 01/18/18 01:59 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
I missed this somehow, but UA has announced a new audio interface:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/16/universal-audio-new-arrow-bus-powered-dsp-interface/

Breaking with their long tradition, this one is actually affordable at $499



Best,

Geoff
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#2903121 - 01/18/18 02:02 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
Originally Posted By: zephonic
More Korg news, D1 digital piano:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/digitalpianos/d1/



Best,

Geoff
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#2903123 - 01/18/18 02:10 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985


Thread here: MiniBrute 2 announced

Best,

Geoff
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#2903124 - 01/18/18 02:17 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
Released today: Spitfire Audio Olafur Arnalds Chamber Evolutions



Best,

Geoff
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#2903125 - 01/18/18 02:23 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
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#2903126 - 01/18/18 02:41 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Online   content
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3884
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Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Originally Posted By: zephonic
I missed this somehow, but UA has announced a new audio interface:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2018/01/16/universal-audio-new-arrow-bus-powered-dsp-interface/

Breaking with their long tradition, this one is actually affordable at $499



Best,

Geoff



From the Arrow manual:
Quote:

Thunderbolt 3 Port Notes:
ē Arrow requires a built-in Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C port for the computer connection.
ē Although Thunderbolt 3 always uses USB-C connectors, not all USB-C computer ports are Thunderbolt 3 ports.
ē Arrow is incompatible with Thunderbolt 1 and Thunderbolt 2 computer ports, even if an adapter is used.

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000855763-Arrow

Presumably, that is because it requires ThB3 bus power. Bummer, that makes it a non-starter for my 2015 MBP.
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#2903138 - 01/18/18 03:31 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
Yeah, it kind of negates the affordability factor if you have to buy a new computer to use it. wink

Best,

Geoff
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#2903145 - 01/18/18 04:38 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: Adan
My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115.

I don't see an indication that it includes Korg's "best" piano sounds.

30 sounds married to an RH3 at 30-ish pounds? If $1400, that sounds too close to an SV1. But if it is under a grand looking to compete with that that P115, sure. At least it has a real MIDI jack!

ETA: ...and 30 lbs is a lot better than the 38+ of an SV1, and an RH3 action at about 30 lbs would be nice.


Edited by AnotherScott (01/18/18 04:43 PM)
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#2903146 - 01/18/18 04:42 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
PianoManChuck Offline
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Registered: 10/18/12
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Loc: Los Angeles, Caliornia
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115.

I don't see an indication that it includes Korg's "best" piano sounds.

30 sounds married to an RH3 at 30-something pounds? If $1400, that sounds too close to an SV1. But if it is under a grand looking to compete with that that P115, sure. At least it has a real MIDI jack!

I heard its going to be more like $800 USD.
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#2903148 - 01/18/18 05:00 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: PianoManChuck]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: PianoManChuck
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115.

I don't see an indication that it includes Korg's "best" piano sounds.

30 sounds married to an RH3 at 30-something pounds? If $1400, that sounds too close to an SV1. But if it is under a grand looking to compete with that that P115, sure. At least it has a real MIDI jack!

I heard its going to be more like $800 USD.


It's showing up at £620 at a UK site, so yeah $800 sounds about right.

https://www.gear4music.com/Keyboards-and-Pianos/Korg-D1-Digital-Stage-Piano/2AKS#full-des

Busch.

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#2903151 - 01/18/18 05:10 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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booth 1456 in Hall E

https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1

Synthesizer engines

FM SYNTH (4 operators with 31 algorithms, feedback and detuning)
8BIT WAVE MEMORY SYNTH (waveform editing and morphing with FM mode)
DNA EXPLORER (extract and generate waveforms from audio)
SiGRINDER (granular synthesizer engine)
STANDARD OSC (sign, square, triangle and saw waves)
LOW-BIT OSC (sign, square, triangle and saw waves)


Additional features

Envelopes: ADSR
Filters & EQ: LPF, HPF, BPF, Peaking EQ, LO EQ, HI EQ, Graphic EQ
Effects: Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz, Chorus, Vibrato, Phaser, Tremolo, Auto-pan, Delay, Tape Echo, Room, Hall, Arena, Spring, Plate
Arpeggiators: Up, Down, UpDown, DownUp, Up&Down, Down&Up, Random
USB functions: Firmware updates, USB MIDI
Power: 4 AA batteries, 5V DC (center positive, 5.5mm (outer), 2.1mm (inner) jack)
Outputs: stereo line outputs (standard jacks), headphone output (stereo mini jack)
Speaker
AUX IN (stereo mini jack)
Compact: 399◊130◊47 mm (15.7"◊05.2"◊1.8"), about 1 kg (2.2 lbs.)
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#2903152 - 01/18/18 05:12 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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KR-55 Pro features real recorded drum grooves



"Packed with 24 high-quality rhythm styles, each fine-tuned to accurately reproducethe sound and experience of playing with a percussionist, this rhythm machine can provide simple, straight-forward drum tracking for musicians of any genre. Each style includes multiple patterns, providing accompaniment for endless recording,thanks to the sophisticated chain function.

The KR-55 also includes an audio player function that can play back audio files from an SD card. The Acoustage, Korg's virtual surround technology, creates a personal acoustic stage, an experience unattainable from previous systems. Utilizing the Acoustage on the KR-55 Pro turns the rhythm machine into a high-quality listening
system.

The KR-55 Pro comes with a Korg tuner and metronome built in, as well as pedal control for hands-free rhythm/recording.

Pricing and Availability:
The KR-55 Pro will be available January 2018 for $299.99"

Korg USA booth; #8802 Hall B

http://www.korg.com/us/products/drums/kr55pro/
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#2903156 - 01/18/18 05:15 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Korgís Konnect is a portable PA that you can control from your phone


Multi-function amp useful in a variety of situations
Excellent design delivers high-quality sound, with playback capability that covers the full range from high to low, and power far beyond its size
Compact one-piece construction allows easy transportation, connection, and setup
Dedicated "KONNECT App" lets you wirelessly control the mix
Play back music wirelessly via Bluetooth
High-quality effects per channel and master reverb
Provides optimal EQ presets (VOICING function) for a variety of instruments and musical styles
SCENE function lets you recall settings instantly
Feedback suppressor prevents acoustic feedback
Panel layout is easy to use without confusion
Center cancel lets users reduce the volume of the vocal or guitar in a song
Each channel is equipped with EQ, pan, mute & solo, and phase switch
Can be mounted on a speaker stand
Dedicated carrying bag is available

$399

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#2903166 - 01/18/18 06:21 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 2601
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Adan
My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115.

I don't see an indication that it includes Korg's "best" piano sounds.

30 sounds married to an RH3 at 30-ish pounds? If $1400, that sounds too close to an SV1. But if it is under a grand looking to compete with that that P115, sure. At least it has a real MIDI jack!

ETA: ...and 30 lbs is a lot better than the 38+ of an SV1, and an RH3 action at about 30 lbs would be nice.


I guess I was indulging in my hope of having high end piano sounds in a minimalist weighted-key board but this isn't that.
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#2903216 - 01/19/18 03:30 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
UnderGroundH Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 216
Loc: Keratsini, Hellas
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


booth 1456 in Hall E

https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1

Synthesizer engines

FM SYNTH (4 operators with 31 algorithms, feedback and detuning)
8BIT WAVE MEMORY SYNTH (waveform editing and morphing with FM mode)
DNA EXPLORER (extract and generate waveforms from audio)
SiGRINDER (granular synthesizer engine)
STANDARD OSC (sign, square, triangle and saw waves)
LOW-BIT OSC (sign, square, triangle and saw waves)


Additional features

Envelopes: ADSR
Filters & EQ: LPF, HPF, BPF, Peaking EQ, LO EQ, HI EQ, Graphic EQ
Effects: Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz, Chorus, Vibrato, Phaser, Tremolo, Auto-pan, Delay, Tape Echo, Room, Hall, Arena, Spring, Plate
Arpeggiators: Up, Down, UpDown, DownUp, Up&Down, Down&Up, Random
USB functions: Firmware updates, USB MIDI
Power: 4 AA batteries, 5V DC (center positive, 5.5mm (outer), 2.1mm (inner) jack)
Outputs: stereo line outputs (standard jacks), headphone output (stereo mini jack)
Speaker
AUX IN (stereo mini jack)
Compact: 399◊130◊47 mm (15.7"◊05.2"◊1.8"), about 1 kg (2.2 lbs.)


This one is very interesting. It reminds me OP-1 and Critter and Guitari Organelle.
I like the demos.
I hope it will be less expensive than OP-1...


Edited by UnderGroundH (01/19/18 03:43 AM)
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#2903236 - 01/19/18 05:47 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: UnderGroundH]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
NI launch subscription service for samples - sounds.com

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#2903237 - 01/19/18 05:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6310
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Wireless Monitoring system running off your phone
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#2903266 - 01/19/18 07:49 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Planning [Re: MurMan]
SkiGuy777 Offline
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Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 202
Loc: Plantation FL
I think the Hammond SKX is going to be the star of the show for keyboards. Get a bunch of videos with a quality mic (Rode NT4). I can imagine every great organ player is going to have a go on it. Or you send the input directly into a mixing board (use on board Leslie sim) and record into your camera or an audio recorder.

If you really wanted to do it right and get a ton of YouTube hits, you'd bring an over head camera rig to record so you can see the hands. There is usually a stand behind the person, with the camera on a long boom with a counter balance on the other side. Otherwise, have someone stand on each side and record the hands with the mic pointing at the Leslie to reduce crowd noise (people talking).

Kraft and Sweatwater will eventually come out with reviews, but that would be the videos I think most will be interested in.


Edited by SkiGuy777 (01/19/18 07:53 AM)
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#2903373 - 01/19/18 03:06 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Planning [Re: SkiGuy777]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Would love to see a head-on vs. 3/4 view of the Korg KR-55 PRO so I can figure out what it actually does. It hurts my head to even try to read the labels, much less take in their context.

Initial impression is that IT will be the star of the show, as it provides typical Arranger Workstation features to those who may not want to spend the Big Bucks and would rather piece together their own modular system of whatever satisfies their needs.

Not to mention that it is going to be super-hot with the electronica crowd, who seem to dominate today (judging by lack of response lately on real instrument auctions, and outrageous amounts of attention on generic mass produced electronic synth gear).

I thought Korg had also snuck a hint of a DW8000 emulation for Korg Legacy Collection (I forget the software suite's new name)?
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#2903384 - 01/19/18 03:44 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Planning [Re: Mark Schmieder]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Would love to see a head-on vs. 3/4 view of the Korg KR-55 PRO so I can figure out what it actually does. It hurts my head to even try to read the labels, much less take in their context.

Initial impression is that IT will be the star of the show, as it provides typical Arranger Workstation features to those who may not want to spend the Big Bucks and would rather piece together their own modular system of whatever satisfies their needs.

Not to mention that it is going to be super-hot with the electronica crowd, who seem to dominate today (judging by lack of response lately on real instrument auctions, and outrageous amounts of attention on generic mass produced electronic synth gear).

I thought Korg had also snuck a hint of a DW8000 emulation for Korg Legacy Collection (I forget the software suite's new name)?


No, it's a just a drum machine. It uses audio recordings of grooves from real drummers (as opposed to creating a beat via. MIDI) and then uses time-stretching technology for BPM variations. I assume Korg does this similar to Band-in-a-Box where the groove is recorded over a range of tempos so it sounds as natural as possible, regardless of tempo. 24 styles, two variations for each style plus two fills. No arranger capabilities, just drums.

Designed for one/two person acts, small stage. Functions as a small mixer plus you can record using it. Can't see the appeal of this for electronic musicians as none of the styles aren't relevant (plus Ableton can do this easily).

It does sound much better than a MIDI drum machine for traditional styles.





Busch.


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#2903386 - 01/19/18 03:47 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
The new Purgatory Creek Clavinet Collection for Kontakt includes models C and D6 and is priced at $24.95.

Best,

Geoff
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#2903389 - 01/19/18 03:57 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
Puremagnetik has released a variety of Ensoniq-based libraries for Ableton Live, Kontakt, and Logic. More here:

The Soniq Collection | A Compendium of Classic Synths

Normally $79, the introductory price is $9.99 until January 21, 2018.

Best,

Geoff
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#2903391 - 01/19/18 04:02 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8778
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Thanks for posting the large head-on view of the Korg. I was hoping it might be a modern take on Yamaha's QY700.
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#2903394 - 01/19/18 04:24 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7947
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
The new Purgatory Creek Clavinet Collection for Kontakt includes models C and D6 and is priced at $24.95.

Best,

Geoff


Thanks Geoff!!! like

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#2903424 - 01/19/18 07:15 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: burningbusch]
zephonic Online   content
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3884
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
JBL introduces the MkII of their popular LSR 3 series, now with glossy finish:



http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/3-series-mkii#.WlVQfCSnyf0
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#2903427 - 01/19/18 07:23 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6310
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Teaser video from IK Multimedia.
Not sure what it is. Could be something Geetar. It's definitely an interface of some kind. It has MIDI io, 1/4" io, a volume knob... looks like a pedal control...

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#2903428 - 01/19/18 07:30 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Booth #11802
OWC

Thunderbolt 3 stuff
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-envoy-pro-ex-thunderbolt-3



Portable, rugged, & bus-powered
Integrated Thunderbolt 3 cable
Speeds up to 2600MB/s
2TB $1,698.00
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#2903429 - 01/19/18 07:35 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Optical sensor allows acoustic pianos to be midi controllers - obvious use would be triggering software pianos for recording with your acoustic.

They also make a portable player piano.
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#2903447 - 01/19/18 10:23 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Teaser video from IK Multimedia.
Not sure what it is.

matters not to me what is is. I'll steer clear.
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#2903448 - 01/19/18 10:25 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Puremagnetik has released a variety of Ensoniq-based libraries for Ableton Live, Kontakt, and Logic. More here:

The Soniq Collection | A Compendium of Classic Synths

Normally $79, the introductory price is $9.99 until January 21, 2018.

Best,

Geoff


I just purchased this. It's worth $10.00 to me for the trip down memory lane. cool
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Quite simply - If you can't play Jump on it, you don't want it.
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#2903457 - 01/19/18 11:46 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: davedoerfler]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Yep, I wouldn't have known about the Puremagnetik product if not for your link, and I just finished installing it. I think it was UVI that also recently did a Fizmo sample set, but I haven't compared them yet. This one is way more comprehensive and covers the overlooked drum machine also, I'm pretty sure (I haven't done a full inventory of its sounds yet).


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/19/18 11:47 PM)
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#2903467 - 01/20/18 03:57 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: davedoerfler]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Puremagnetik has released a variety of Ensoniq-based libraries for Ableton Live, Kontakt, and Logic. More here:

The Soniq Collection | A Compendium of Classic Synths

Normally $79, the introductory price is $9.99 until January 21, 2018.

Best,

Geoff


I just purchased this. It's worth $10.00 to me for the trip down memory lane. cool

I am a sucker for $10 specials, got it also. Blows up my resolution back in the Summer of '17 I to stop filling my disc up with $10 specials.
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#2903896 - 01/22/18 07:22 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markay]
zephonic Online   content
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ADAM Audio introduces a new monitor series:

https://www.adam-audio.com/en/news/industry/the-t-series/

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#2903905 - 01/22/18 07:35 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
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#2903993 - 01/22/18 12:16 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Here's a usable front view of the Audient. I can't tell much from the 3/4 view, as always.

https://1i5s4tzbutd13jf1u2ji31u1-wpengin...rop-768x526.png

I own the ASP880 and it's amazing. This new desktop unit looks very similar to the new one from Universal Audio and is priced similarly, so it might be a tough sell for that market given that the UA device comes with plug-ins.

On the other hand, this one has four channels vs. two, and can be used as an expander via ADAT, so I think it will find its niche. The two DI channels on the front side of the unit are also quite helpful, and probably the same high quality as in the ASP series.

Oh, I see this desktop unit also has some basic features of monitor-switching, and a Big Knob that hopefully could be used as a true volume control (the one on my RME Fireface UFX is advertised that way but does NOT function that way, as menu-diving is required).

It's important to be able to quickly turn volume down or off, when there's a glitch (or unexpected website audio), as a computer can also freeze up at such times so you may not even be able to use the mouse to hit the software monitor's mute button.

I'm already revising my opinion of whether this is a competitive model, now that I realize it has a lot more features than other table-top small-channel-count interfaces.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/22/18 12:19 PM)
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#2904004 - 01/22/18 12:36 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markay]
ahutnick Offline
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It says $29.99 on the website for the Ensoniq collection


Edited by ahutnick (01/22/18 12:37 PM)
Edit Reason: adding details

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#2904026 - 01/22/18 01:34 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ahutnick]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Yeah, the $9.99 introductory price ended yesterday; but this week's $29 sale price still beats the $79 normal cost.

Best,

Geoff
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#2904041 - 01/22/18 02:19 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Spectrasonics has released new Mac and Windows standalone applications of Keyscape, Omnisphere 2, Trilian and Stylus RMX. More here:

New Standalone Applications

There are also new features for Keyscape and Omnisphere.

Omnisphere v2.4 features:
ē New Standalone application
ē Smart Update system enabled
ē Remote control loading of patches and multis via MIDI Program Change, CCs or Notes
ē ďEnter Parameter ValueĒ feature to set parameter to a specific value
ē Up to 2X GUI magnification options
ē Added Keyscape Velocity Curve Presets
ē Tagging/Library organization improvements
ē New Modulation sources: ď3-StepĒ and ď4-StepĒ and Unipolar sources
ē Numerous other fixes and enhancements

Keyscape v1.1 features:
ē New Standalone application
ē Smart Update system enabled
ē Remote control loading of patches and multis via MIDI Program Change, CCs or Notes
ē ďEnter Parameter ValueĒ feature to set parameter to a specific value
ē Up to 2X GUI magnification options
ē Numerous other fixes and enhancements

Best,

Geoff
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#2904045 - 01/22/18 02:53 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Spectrasonics has released new Mac and Windows standalone applications of Keyscape, Omnisphere 2, Trilian and Stylus RMX. More here:

New Standalone Applications




Hawt Dayum! Finally!
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#2904046 - 01/22/18 02:56 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
zephonic Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder

I own the ASP880 and it's amazing. This new desktop unit looks very similar to the new one from Universal Audio and is priced similarly, so it might be a tough sell for that market given that the UA device comes with plug-ins.


I own the iD14, and sonically it's noticeably better than my Mbox Pro (3rd-gen). However, it falls apart at low latencies and/or high loads, which makes it unusable for people depending on lots of VI's/plugins. I use it for occasional location recording and for that it's fine.

Audient has already confirmed that the iD44 will use the same class-compliant CoreAudio driver, so I'm not expecting much improvement there. They did mention a new and more efficient Windows driver is coming.
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#2904077 - 01/22/18 06:51 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
NYKeys Offline
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FINALLY!!!! Christmas IN January....Downloading Now.
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#2904078 - 01/22/18 06:51 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
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The Korg D1 is just a tad disappointing. If they had brought game on the piano voices, it might have been a contender.

As it is, just comes across as a "meh" choice in the sub $1000 category.

Sometimes I think I should be doing product marketing for these guys, and then I realize it probably doesn't pay so much smile
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#2904084 - 01/22/18 07:19 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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The D1 appears to be a stage-friendly version of the LP-380.

Originally Posted By: Adan
stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs.

That could be appealing for a low-cost RH3, but in looking at the specs ("35.27 lbs including stand"), I think they're talking about the included music stand, which probably doesn't weigh that much.

http://www.korg.com/us/products/digitalpianos/d1/specifications.php
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#2904107 - 01/23/18 12:59 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai Japan announced a couple of new digital pianos last week:

http://www.kawai-global.com/news/kawai-announces-kdp110-digital-piano/
http://www.kawai-global.com/news/kawai-announces-ca58-digital-piano/

More info on the product pages:

http://www.kawai-global.com/product/ca58/
http://www.kawai-global.com/product/kdp110/

Kind regards,
James
x

ps. I believe MI employees posting information about new instruments within *existing* threads is within the forum guidelines, yes?
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#2904156 - 01/23/18 07:36 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Kawai James]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Yet another desktop monophonic analog.
This one from Doepfer.
DARK ENERGY III

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#2904158 - 01/23/18 07:46 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Alesis Vortex Keytar



$299

http://www.alesis.com/
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#2904159 - 01/23/18 07:48 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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#2904183 - 01/23/18 09:04 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
bjosko Offline
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Nord Electro 6
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#2904240 - 01/23/18 11:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
MurMan Offline
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Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Omnisphere v2.4 features:
ē New Modulation sources: ď3-StepĒ and ď4-StepĒ and Unipolar sources

The admin at the Spectrasonics Omnisphere Power Users FB group just posted that the new modulation sources are blowing his mind with possibilities.

Has anyone looked at this yet?
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#2904249 - 01/23/18 12:09 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: MurMan]
Mark Zeger Offline
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Originally Posted By: MurMan
The admin at the Spectrasonics Omnisphere Power Users FB group just posted that the new modulation sources are blowing his mind with possibilities.

He went on to post that his mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

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#2904251 - 01/23/18 12:13 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
vonnor Offline
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Registered: 01/02/14
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Booth #11802
OWC

Thunderbolt 3 stuff
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-envoy-pro-ex-thunderbolt-3



Portable, rugged, & bus-powered
Integrated Thunderbolt 3 cable
Speeds up to 2600MB/s
2TB $1,698.00

In 5 years those'll be 200 bucks.
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#2904252 - 01/23/18 12:14 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Zeger]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Originally Posted By: MurMan
The admin at the Spectrasonics Omnisphere Power Users FB group just posted that the new modulation sources are blowing his mind with possibilities.

He went on to post that his mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Ditto.
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#2904258 - 01/23/18 12:31 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: vonnor]
Rod S Offline
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They need to make thunderbolt devices always with 2 ports. Or else the whole point of daisy chaining is shot. (I'm assuming T3 works like T2 which I'm familiar with).
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#2904262 - 01/23/18 12:45 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Zeger]
MurMan Offline
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Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 931
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
He went on to post that his mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

Yep. That's the normal reaction to Omnisphere ...
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#2904266 - 01/23/18 01:10 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Registered: 08/12/03
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Alesis Vortex Keytar



$299

http://www.alesis.com/


As an owner of an original Vortex (my Hammered Copper one), I REALLY like the upgrades they have done. The sliders in place of the knobs, RGB lit pads, and a huge one is the on/off switch for the accelerometer(tilt sensor) so you don't have to go menu diving, or use the editor to turn it off. All good stuff.

I will be getting one. Of course it will receive new paint wink
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Alesis Vortex Wireless 2 | Mainstage |


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#2904352 - 01/24/18 03:17 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: vonnor]
mauriziodececco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 249
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: vonnor
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Booth #11802
OWC

Thunderbolt 3 stuff
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/owc-envoy-pro-ex-thunderbolt-3



Portable, rugged, & bus-powered
Integrated Thunderbolt 3 cable
Speeds up to 2600MB/s
2TB $1,698.00

In 5 years those'll be 200 bucks.


Probably in 18 months. In 5 years, nobody will want SSD, we will all have neuro-direct connections to the cloud.

Maurizio
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#2904356 - 01/24/18 04:44 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 7115
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yet another desktop monophonic analog.
This one from Doepfer.


Looks like Pittsburgh Modular is also releasing a pre-wired monosynth with some patching capability. Sounds like a single oscillator, with a noise source.


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#2904359 - 01/24/18 04:55 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Synthoid Online   content
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Posts: 10318
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Ah, it's nice to know we have some serious synth enthusiasts among the ranks here in Pennsylvania. w00t
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#2904364 - 01/24/18 05:41 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Strymon Magneto tape echo in Euro rack format.

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#2904408 - 01/24/18 08:44 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
zephonic Online   content
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Registered: 10/06/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Hmm, if Yamaha were indeed to introdue a ďMontage LEĒ, we would have heard about it by now, no?

Bummer...
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#2904423 - 01/24/18 09:30 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6310
Loc: USA, greater NY area
I would think anything major would have had teasers and "leaks" since November. Although the Korg Prologue was pretty hush.
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#2904424 - 01/24/18 09:32 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
ahutnick Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 102
Loc: san francisco bay area
The only Montage rumor I've read is there is supposed to be 2.0 OS update for the Montage. Great sounding board but needs a good librarian and editor and other fixes. Doubt you'll see a Montage LE but who knows?

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#2904426 - 01/24/18 09:43 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ahutnick]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6310
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Would be nice to see them rack the sounds - but the concept doesn't translate well. Although they could do a desktop.
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#2904431 - 01/24/18 10:08 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Dave Keys Offline
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Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 81
Loc: Birmingham UK
I'm considering the Universal Audio Arrow to go with my MacBookPro 2017, as connecting my Roland FA66 Firewire interface sounds far too much of a faff with adapters etc.

Are there any other Thunderbolt 3 Audio interfaces for a similar price?
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#2904479 - 01/24/18 02:24 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ahutnick]
Cybersoniq Offline
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Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 329
Originally Posted By: ahutnick
The only Montage rumor I've read is there is supposed to be 2.0 OS update for the Montage. Great sounding board but needs a good librarian and editor and other fixes. Doubt you'll see a Montage LE but who knows?

Not holding my breath on the Yammy NAMM 2018 countdown:
https://www.yamaha.com/us/namm/2018/comingsoon.aspx
"In the Keyboard product area, a wide spectrum of Yamaha products will be displayed ranging from premium pianos to new digital pianos and **flagship digital workstation**". This last item must refer to the new Genos (as they now refer to Digital and Arranger Workstations also as "Digital Workstations".

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#2904488 - 01/24/18 02:53 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Cybersoniq]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1820
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Cybersoniq
Originally Posted By: ahutnick
The only Montage rumor I've read is there is supposed to be 2.0 OS update for the Montage. Great sounding board but needs a good librarian and editor and other fixes. Doubt you'll see a Montage LE but who knows?

Not holding my breath on the Yammy NAMM 2018 countdown:
https://www.yamaha.com/us/namm/2018/comingsoon.aspx
"In the Keyboard product area, a wide spectrum of Yamaha products will be displayed ranging from premium pianos to new digital pianos and **flagship digital workstation**". This last item must refer to the new Genos (as they now refer to Digital and Arranger Workstations also as "Digital Workstations".





aren't all yammy boards "digital"? they don't play in the analog space, do they?
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#2904558 - 01/25/18 03:22 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: MotiDave]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
I know it's not on the radar of most people here, but I would love to hear/see more of the new Studiologic Numa Compact 2x...

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2x/

In theory looks like a great alternative in the budget stage keyboard department
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#2904561 - 01/25/18 03:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Nadroj Offline
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Originally Posted By: To B3
I know it's not on the radar of most people here, but I would love to hear/see more of the new Studiologic Numa Compact 2x...

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2x/

In theory looks like a great alternative in the budget stage keyboard department


That looks like a tidy little board. When it says "samples memory" I assume it means built in samples and not user samples?
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#2904562 - 01/25/18 04:02 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Nadroj]
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Yes, looks like it... But a respectable size anyway... There are some demos on that link, but are the same of the older model (2, not 2x) without the organ modelling and VA capabillities... Pianos and other samples I supose that are the same...
Real time controls, decent controller qualities... and plenty of keys for splits on those 1 board gigs... if they put the right price and manage to distribute well, looks like a winner... considering that the current compact 2 is priced at 500 bucks,
I think (and hope) it's possible to maintain bellow the 900 dollars...

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
Originally Posted By: To B3
I know it's not on the radar of most people here, but I would love to hear/see more of the new Studiologic Numa Compact 2x...

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2x/

In theory looks like a great alternative in the budget stage keyboard department


That looks like a tidy little board. When it says "samples memory" I assume it means built in samples and not user samples?
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#2904564 - 01/25/18 04:37 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
stoken6 Offline
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That Studiologic looks interesting - ROMpler, clonewheel and VA in an synth-weighted 88. (I would have thought 76-key would be more attractive, but obviously they reused the existing Compact chassis). It's an obvious competitor to the Nord Stage and Roland VR - both successful offerings for their manufacturers.

Regards, Mike.
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#2904566 - 01/25/18 04:45 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: stoken6]
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Yes, curious to see how it goes on the clonewheel side of things (hoping that it got a BIG portion of the NUma Organ Engine) and the general functionality and interface for the stage... effect assigning, things like that

Originally Posted By: stoken6
That Studiologic looks interesting - ROMpler, clonewheel and VA in an synth-weighted 88. (I would have thought 76-key would be more attractive, but obviously they reused the existing Compact chassis). It's an obvious competitor to the Nord Stage and Roland VR - both successful offerings for their manufacturers.

Regards, Mike.
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#2904568 - 01/25/18 04:56 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Nadroj Offline
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I wasn't impressed with the rotary sim from the Numa Organ, but if it's priced right it may be worth adding a vent to it for a light one board solution.

Numa Compact 2x under a Nord Lead A1...Hrmm...
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#2904572 - 01/25/18 05:06 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
drawback Offline
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Originally Posted By: To B3
I know it's not on the radar of most people here, but I would love to hear/see more of the new Studiologic Numa Compact 2x...

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2x/

In theory looks like a great alternative in the budget stage keyboard department


MAP $699.95 US

Iíve forgotten which other boards use TP/9...

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#2904574 - 01/25/18 05:18 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: drawback]
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WHOA! Half the price of a Roland VR-730, maybe the nearest competitor! Hope that it sounds good and is not too crippled on the new engines!

Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: To B3
I know it's not on the radar of most people here, but I would love to hear/see more of the new Studiologic Numa Compact 2x...

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_compact2x/

In theory looks like a great alternative in the budget stage keyboard department


MAP $699 US

Iíve forgotten which other boards use TP/9...



Edited by To B3 (01/25/18 05:22 AM)
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#2904575 - 01/25/18 05:20 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Leslie by Hammond Suzuki included with Amplitube

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#2904576 - 01/25/18 05:24 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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New Roland Digital Grand using SUPERNatural

https://www.roland.com/us/products/gp609/
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#2904577 - 01/25/18 05:25 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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ROLAND CLOUD

"Roland finally releases VST/AU plugin versions of its 808 and 909 drum machines"
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#2904603 - 01/25/18 06:56 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Mackie in your ear.

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#2904605 - 01/25/18 06:59 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: drawback]
tfort Offline
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The pictures/graphics on the Studiologic Compact 2x web page donít make sense, as it shows an iPad connected via a USB-A port, while the back panel picture shows the presumably old C2 with only a USB-B port.

As far as I can tell, the only additions to the X are the drawbars and the USB-A port, assuming it has one. The audio demos for the C2x are the same as for the C2, so I donít think any sound engines have been added. The drawbars will allow for some tweakability of the presets, but a $200 increase seems high if thatís all thatís been added. Still interested, but not a slam dunk. Wish there was a 73 key version.

The C2x accessories page also shows a gig bag, which is new.

I think a lot of Kurzweil synths used the TP/9-S, and also the NI S61 and S61mk2. Only difference for the TP/9-P is presumedly the key shape?


Edited by tfort (01/25/18 07:42 AM)
Edit Reason: Added TP/9 info.

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#2904618 - 01/25/18 07:41 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: tfort]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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Originally Posted By: tfort
As far as I can tell, the only additions to the X are the drawbars and the USB-A port, assuming it has one. The audio demos for the C2x are the same as for the C2, so I donít think any sound engines have been added. The drawbars will allow for some tweakability of the presets, but a $200 increase seems high if thatís all thatís been added. Still interested, but not a slam dunk. Wish there was a 73 key version.


Surely the whole Sledge/VA side is new? And I think the statement "A tone wheel organ model derived from Numa Organ" suggests more than just existing presets with some tweaking. It's possible that they haven't updated the demos. Agree that a 7x-key version would be more attractive...

I looked for a manual but couldn't see one on the website.

Cheers, Mike.


Edited by stoken6 (01/25/18 07:41 AM)
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#2904620 - 01/25/18 07:42 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Zeger]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Zeger
Originally Posted By: MurMan
The admin at the Spectrasonics Omnisphere Power Users FB group just posted that the new modulation sources are blowing his mind with possibilities.

He went on to post that his mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

Dayum! He uses his tongue prettier than....oh never mind!

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#2904629 - 01/25/18 07:54 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: stoken6]
tfort Offline
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 243
Originally Posted By: stoken6
Surely the whole Sledge/VA side is new? And I think the statement "A tone wheel organ model derived from Numa Organ" suggests more than just existing presets with some tweaking. It's possible that they haven't updated the demos. Agree that a 7x-key version would be more attractive...

I looked for a manual but couldn't see one on the website.

Cheers, Mike.


I hope youíre right. I also hope they improved the controller functionality a bit. The drawbars send MIDI CC; none of the buttons on the C2 could send MIDI info to be programmable, e.g for patch change with MainStage. With some MIDI programmable pushbuttons and rotary encoders Iíd have already preordered.

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#2904633 - 01/25/18 08:02 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: tfort]
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It is reported that are new engines on board. The audio demos are from the old model, indeed, but I suspect they will update them. Still not wrong, as those sounds are too onboard of the new machine, from what I understood. Would like to hear the new ones, though.

And it's advertised that the drawbars/sliders are meant to control the sound/parameters of new organ/synth models. They're not just extra hardware for the existing sounds.

Originally Posted By: tfort
The pictures/graphics on the C2x web page donít make sense, as it shows an iPad connected via a USB-A port, while the back panel picture shows the presumably old C2 with only a USB-B port.

As far as I can tell, the only additions to the X are the drawbars and the USB-A port, assuming it has one. The audio demos for the C2x are the same as for the C2, so I donít think any sound engines have been added. The drawbars will allow for some tweakability of the presets, but a $200 increase seems high if thatís all thatís been added. Still interested, but not a slam dunk. Wish there was a 73 key version.

The C2x accessories page also shows a gig bag, which is new.
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#2904642 - 01/25/18 09:19 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: tfort]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: To B3
Yes, curious to see how it goes on the clonewheel side of things (hoping that it got a BIG portion of the NUma Organ Engine)

The obviously "missing" Numa Organ controls are the level controls for percussion, key click, and leakage. Hopefully they're adjustable in there somewhere, i.e. in a menu setting, even if only global. Chorus and Vib only show 1 and 2, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't toggle through options that would include 1+2 together to get 3. I hope they didn't omit leakage, though the Numa Organ 2 leakage is pretty bad anyway (the original Numa Organ leakage was much better).

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
I wasn't impressed with the rotary sim from the Numa Organ

I didn't think the rotary on the original Numa organ was so great (despite lots of raves online), but I have to say, I was very impressed with the rotary sim of the Numa Organ 2 (playing in mono, as I do). Strictly for rotary (apart from overdrive) I actually liked it better than the Vent. It would be great if that rotary effect made it into the Compact 2x, though I would not be surprised if they stuck with the kinda lame rotary effect they are already using in the Compact (and the pretty atrocious Drive).

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
but if it's priced right it may be worth adding a vent to it for a light one board solution.

Yeah, that should sound good, though the Compact 2 at least doesn't have any dual-mono or pan functions to send a pair of split/layered sounds out their own outputs, so if the 2x is the same, you won't be able to use the Vent in a split/layer scenario, and you'll have to remember to switch it in and out whenever you switch to and from organ. (Same issue as putting it on a VR-09.)

Originally Posted By: tfort
The pictures/graphics on the Studiologic Compact 2x web page donít make sense, as it shows an iPad connected via a USB-A port, while the back panel picture shows the presumably old C2 with only a USB-B port.

The picture with the iPad looks like a photoshop. I would not assume its depiction of the connection is accurate. An iPad (or laptop) should connect through a USB-B port (i.e. it would be a host, not a slave).

Originally Posted By: tfort
\As far as I can tell, the only additions to the X are the drawbars and the USB-A port, assuming it has one. The audio demos for the C2x are the same as for the C2, so I donít think any sound engines have been added. The drawbars will allow for some tweakability of the presets, but a $200 increase seems high if thatís all thatís been added.

The drawbars (and also the chorus/vibrato and percussion controls you didn't mention) are a big deal. The C2 only had 8 fixed organ sounds, plain rompler samples, not from an "organ engine" (for example, percussion is not single-trigger). So now they are not just adding more tweaking controls to an existing sound generator, they are adding a whole separate sound generator for the organ. (Plus the drawbars send MIDI CC, making the board much more usable as a controller.) They also added a complete (Sledge-based) VA synth engine, and again the drawbars come into play, as they also function as synth filter/envelope/LFO controls. So it's not just controls, it's the addition of organ and VA synth engines, which is a good deal for $200. (I kind of wish the price difference were greater, because then I'd be more optimistic about the possibility of rotary and drive effects being upgraded from Numa Compact 2 to Numa Organ calibre!)
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#2904648 - 01/25/18 09:38 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
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That's my guess too, adjsutable "other" organ parameters from a menu, even if a bit simplified. Hunting some videos, but nothing yet.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: To B3
Yes, curious to see how it goes on the clonewheel side of things (hoping that it got a BIG portion of the NUma Organ Engine)

The obviously "missing" Numa Organ controls are the level controls for percussion, key click, and leakage. Hopefully they're adjustable in there somewhere, i.e. in a menu setting, even if only global. Chorus and Vib only show 1 and 2, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't toggle through options that would include 1+2 together to get 3. I hope they didn't omit leakage, though the Numa Organ 2 leakage is pretty bad anyway (the original Numa Organ leakage was much better).

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
I wasn't impressed with the rotary sim from the Numa Organ

I didn't think the rotary on the original Numa organ was so great (despite lots of raves online), but I have to say, I was very impressed with the rotary sim of the Numa Organ 2 (playing in mono, as I do). Strictly for rotary (apart from overdrive) I actually liked it better than the Vent. It would be great if that rotary effect made it into the Compact 2x, though I would not be surprised if they stuck with the kinda lame rotary effect they are already using in the Compact (and the pretty atrocious Drive).

Originally Posted By: Nadroj
but if it's priced right it may be worth adding a vent to it for a light one board solution.

Yeah, that should sound good, though the Compact 2 at least doesn't have any dual-mono or pan functions to send a pair of split/layered sounds out their own outputs, so if the 2x is the same, you won't be able to use the Vent in a split/layer scenario, and you'll have to remember to switch it in and out whenever you switch to and from organ. (Same issue as putting it on a VR-09.)

Originally Posted By: tfort
The pictures/graphics on the Studiologic Compact 2x web page donít make sense, as it shows an iPad connected via a USB-A port, while the back panel picture shows the presumably old C2 with only a USB-B port.

The picture with the iPad looks like a photoshop. I would not assume its depiction of the connection is accurate. An iPad (or laptop) should connect through a USB-B port (i.e. it would be a host, not a slave).

Originally Posted By: tfort
\As far as I can tell, the only additions to the X are the drawbars and the USB-A port, assuming it has one. The audio demos for the C2x are the same as for the C2, so I donít think any sound engines have been added. The drawbars will allow for some tweakability of the presets, but a $200 increase seems high if thatís all thatís been added.

The drawbars (and also the chorus/vibrato and percussion controls you didn't mention) are a big deal. The C2 only had 8 fixed organ sounds, plain rompler samples, not from an "organ engine" (for example, percussion is not single-trigger). So now they are not just adding more tweaking controls to an existing sound generator, they are adding a whole separate sound generator for the organ. (Plus the drawbars send MIDI CC, making the board much more usable as a controller.) They also added a complete (Sledge-based) VA synth engine, and again the drawbars come into play, as they also function as synth filter/envelope/LFO controls. So it's not just controls, it's the addition of organ and VA synth engines, which is a good deal for $200. (I kind of wish the price difference were greater, because then I'd be more optimistic about the possibility of rotary and drive effects being upgraded from Numa Compact 2 to Numa Organ calibre!)
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#2904662 - 01/25/18 10:33 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: To B3
WHOA! Half the price of a Roland VR-730, maybe the nearest competitor!

Interesting comparison. I think the Roland may generally have better rompler sounds (and certainly more of them), but besides being cheaper, this has some real advantages over the Roland, particularly as a controller (drawbars send MIDI CC, it has aftertouch, it has two MIDI zones instead of one). It seems to have more real-time synth controls, though Roland supports full VA synth editing via an iPad app, and I don't know how deep you can go with synth editing on the Numa. Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds. And despite having 88 keys, it's only about 2 inches wider than the 73-key Roland, about 5 1/2" less deep, and it weighs over 6 lbs less. Both allow you to store about 100 user setups, the Roland has an advantage in letting you select among the first 16 without using a scroll wheel, but Numa allows you to call theirs up via MIDI Program Change, which Roland does not support.
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#2904666 - 01/25/18 10:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
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One thing I could not find even on the manual or on the videos is how you access your saved sounds and how is their management live... I dont see "favorite buttons" or "quick access" anywhere... Hope that their system, whatever it is, is logical and usable live.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: To B3
WHOA! Half the price of a Roland VR-730, maybe the nearest competitor!

Interesting comparison. I think the Roland may generally have better rompler sounds (and certainly more of them), but besides being cheaper, this has some real advantages over the Roland, particularly as a controller (drawbars send MIDI CC, it has aftertouch, it has two MIDI zones instead of one). It seems to have more real-time synth controls, though Roland supports full VA synth editing via an iPad app, and I don't know how deep you can go with synth editing on the Numa. Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds. And despite having 88 keys, it's only about 2 inches wider than the 73-key Roland, about 5 1/2" less deep, and it weighs over 6 lbs less. Both allow you to store about 100 user setups, the Roland has an advantage in letting you select among the first 16 without using a scroll wheel, but Numa allows you to call theirs up via MIDI Program Change, which Roland does not support.
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#2904671 - 01/25/18 11:12 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: To B3
One thing I could not find even on the manual or on the videos is how you access your saved sounds and how is their management live... I dont see "favorite buttons" or "quick access" anywhere...

Yeah, that's where it falls behind the Roland's quick access to your first 16 saved registrations (using 4 buttons x 4 banks). At least the way the NC2 works, you have to scroll with the knob. Two things in Numa's favor, though: One, as I mentioned, you can call these programs up via MIDI, so you could use a smartphone or tablet to directly access your 99 saved patches, something you can't do on the Roland. And, from the board itself, Numa uses a small knob instead of Roland's traditional old-ipod-style big wheel. The big wheels can be efficient for navigating bigger distances, but I find them really irritating when you just want to move one or two positions at a time. To me, the small wheel works much better for this. I'd rather make small steps with thumb and forefinger than have to engage my whole wrist to get to the next sound. It's also harder to be quickly precise with the big wheel.
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#2904690 - 01/25/18 12:06 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
pjd Offline
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Registered: 09/14/12
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Loc: Massachusetts
Yamaha have announced a Montage OS version 2.0:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2018/01/prweb15125195.htm

Available February 7.

-- pj

Music technology blog: http://sandsoftwaresound.net/


Edited by pjd (01/25/18 12:07 PM)

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#2904695 - 01/25/18 12:13 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
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Hope that it's not where it falls short!

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: To B3
One thing I could not find even on the manual or on the videos is how you access your saved sounds and how is their management live... I dont see "favorite buttons" or "quick access" anywhere...

Yeah, that's where it falls behind the Roland's quick access to your first 16 saved registrations (using 4 buttons x 4 banks). At least the way the NC2 works, you have to scroll with the knob. Two things in Numa's favor, though: One, as I mentioned, you can call these programs up via MIDI, so you could use a smartphone or tablet to directly access your 99 saved patches, something you can't do on the Roland. And, from the board itself, Numa uses a small knob instead of Roland's traditional old-ipod-style big wheel. The big wheels can be efficient for navigating bigger distances, but I find them really irritating when you just want to move one or two positions at a time. To me, the small wheel works much better for this. I'd rather make small steps with thumb and forefinger than have to engage my whole wrist to get to the next sound. It's also harder to be quickly precise with the big wheel.
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#2904742 - 01/25/18 04:55 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
The Numa Compact 2X looks like an incredibly bang for the buck - looking forwarding to hearing some organ demos.

The Roland HP609 looks gorgeous - the rendered animations on their website are beautiful too. Good job guys!

Cheers,
James
x
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#2904747 - 01/25/18 05:28 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Kawai James]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
It turns out that IK Multimedia's teaser posted earlier will mostly be of interest to guitar and bass players, and possibly to vocalists as well: iRig Stomp I/O:



But they did throw us keyboard players a bone with AmpliTube Leslie (also part of the T-RackS 5 bundle):


(Video also posted above by Elmer.)

Best,

Geoff
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#2904750 - 01/25/18 05:32 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Posts: 10985
Waves has released Scheps Omni Channel:







Best,

Geoff
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#2904751 - 01/25/18 05:36 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Posts: 10985
Wave Alchemy has released Evolution, a drum machine plugin:





Best,

Geoff
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#2904752 - 01/25/18 05:41 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Steven Slate has announced two new products, Audified U73bóa compressoróand version 5 of Steven Slate Drums:





Best,

Geoff
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#2904754 - 01/25/18 05:58 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Demo of the Nord Electro 6D:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904755 - 01/25/18 06:01 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Waldorf shows their pre-release Quantum:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904756 - 01/25/18 06:03 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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A look at Yamaha Montage OS 2.0:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904757 - 01/25/18 06:06 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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A look at Arturua MiniBrute 2:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904760 - 01/25/18 06:09 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Waves shows the Scheps Omni Channel



Best,

Geoff
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#2904762 - 01/25/18 06:11 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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It's the new "Pro" version of Autotune:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904764 - 01/25/18 06:14 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Waldorf's new String synthesizer with a vocoder, the SVTC:



Best,

Geoff
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#2904766 - 01/25/18 06:36 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Apple has released Logic Pro 10.4 with major new features. The link below includes videos demonstrating some of them:

Logic Pro X update includes Smart Tempo feature and powerful effect plug-ins

Thread here:

Logic Pro X 10.4 Released

Best,

Geoff
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#2904773 - 01/25/18 07:43 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
Elektron Digitone

Poly synth, FM, 8 voice, trying to make programming an FM more like a subtractive.

"Digitone represents our vision of how FM synthesis can be revitalized and modernized. Hereís how: combine FM sound generation with a classic subtractive synthesis signal flow. From jagged chaos to mellow soundscapes in less than a second. Digitone is one unique box."

"Choose from multiple FM algorithms featuring carefully selected parameters. Shape the tones with powerful filters. Arrange them with the intuitive Elektron sequencer. Round off with the stellar effects. Now enjoy the most spectacular sounds, seemingly emanating from some parallel universe."

https://soundcloud.com/elektron/sets/digitone-polyphonic-digital-synthesiser

$759

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#2904776 - 01/25/18 07:52 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds.


Can you split it with clonewheel/Leslie in your left hand and piano in your right?


Edited by Synthaholic (01/25/18 07:53 PM)
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#2904779 - 01/25/18 08:10 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds.


Can you split it with clonewheel/Leslie in your left hand and piano in your right?

Yup.

Paging Allan Evett!
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#2904786 - 01/25/18 09:03 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
hardware Offline
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Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Spectrasonics has released new Mac and Windows standalone applications of Keyscape, Omnisphere 2, Trilian and Stylus RMX. More here:

New Standalone Applications




Hawt Dayum! Finally!


Iím hoping to shrink the GUI, magnification is not something I need.
But thank God for CCs and stand-alone means less CPU. Omni hosting Keyscape tended to get hungry on dual live mode.
Now I can layer with PianoTeq easier.
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#2904790 - 01/25/18 09:30 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
humannoyed Offline
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Registered: 12/28/00
Posts: 785
Loc: Deep South ,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Elektron Digitone

Poly synth, FM, 8 voice, trying to make programming an FM more like a subtractive.

"Digitone represents our vision of how FM synthesis can be revitalized and modernized. Hereís how: combine FM sound generation with a classic subtractive synthesis signal flow. From jagged chaos to mellow soundscapes in less than a second. Digitone is one unique box."

"Choose from multiple FM algorithms featuring carefully selected parameters. Shape the tones with powerful filters. Arrange them with the intuitive Elektron sequencer. Round off with the stellar effects. Now enjoy the most spectacular sounds, seemingly emanating from some parallel universe."

https://soundcloud.com/elektron/sets/digitone-polyphonic-digital-synthesiser

$759



Did not expect to like this thing, but I do. Sounds nice!
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#2904791 - 01/25/18 10:00 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Adan]
niacin Offline
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Loc: down under
Originally Posted By: Adan
Originally Posted By: smanzella
I don't think Korg designed it with the controller purpose in mind. Looks like a simple portable piano that does the portable piano thing really well. This is probably aimed more at players like me who do almost exclusively jazz or piano-centric gigs every night and just need good acoustic and electric piano functionality. I would be very interested in owning one. I wonder what it's going to sell for?


My guess is $1400 street price which will include the stand. stand probably weighs 5 lbs, so keyboard might be 30 lbs. With Korg's best piano sounds and RH3 action it far outclasses a P115. I like the RH3 but it's not as universally beloved as, say, the CP4. I never need 88 keys and the extra length often an issue for transport and on small stages, so for me personally the D1 misses the mark, though not by much.


Not sure why you guys think this has great piano sounds, the info on Korg's website says 4-way sample switching. This ain't no Grandstage.
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#2904805 - 01/26/18 03:54 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: niacin]
To B3 Online   content
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Very small video of the Numa Compact 2x, still nothing about the organ section. But the sliders work LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCKD70R6jxI
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#2904809 - 01/26/18 04:52 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
JerryA Offline
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Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Ah, it's nice to know we have some serious synth enthusiasts among the ranks here in Pennsylvania. w00t



grin thu

Imagine my shock to learn that Roger Arrick was building Moog style modulars, two suburbs away from me. freak

SonicState's interview with Pittsburgh Modular is up ... good to see these guys branching out. I maybe wrong but I think this is the first pre-configured monosynth with a lowpass-gate built in.


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#2904813 - 01/26/18 05:28 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Kawai James]
joegerardi Offline
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Only thing I see about the Numa 2X is that some people might not want an 88 semi-weighted keyboard:

"88 Keys, TP/9 PIANO semi-weighted Action dual-switch detection system. Aftertouch."

But at least it has AT.

..Joe
_________________________
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#2904815 - 01/26/18 05:33 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: joegerardi]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Avid has released Pro Tools 2018, the latest version of its famous DAW. This puts the emphasis on workflow, adding features that are designed to speed up the music-making process. These include Track Presets, retrospective MIDI record, MIDI editing enhancements and Playlist Comping enhancements.
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#2904817 - 01/26/18 05:39 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: joegerardi]
To B3 Online   content
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Considering that it's an organ/synth/performance instrument too, so it must have some compromise. Not everybody's cup of tea, but, what is? smile

88 keys with plenty of real estate for splits, real time controls and 15 lbs looks very promising to me. Hope that some videos featuring the organ engine pop up soon!

Originally Posted By: joegerardi
Only thing I see about the Numa 2X is that some people might not want an 88 semi-weighted keyboard:

"88 Keys, TP/9 PIANO semi-weighted Action dual-switch detection system. Aftertouch."

But at least it has AT.

..Joe

_________________________
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#2904835 - 01/26/18 06:20 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ElmerJFudd]
RABid Offline
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Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12480
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Elektron Digitone

Poly synth, FM, 8 voice, trying to make programming an FM more like a subtractive.

"Digitone represents our vision of how FM synthesis can be revitalized and modernized. Hereís how: combine FM sound generation with a classic subtractive synthesis signal flow. From jagged chaos to mellow soundscapes in less than a second. Digitone is one unique box."

"Choose from multiple FM algorithms featuring carefully selected parameters. Shape the tones with powerful filters. Arrange them with the intuitive Elektron sequencer. Round off with the stellar effects. Now enjoy the most spectacular sounds, seemingly emanating from some parallel universe."

https://soundcloud.com/elektron/sets/digitone-polyphonic-digital-synthesiser

$759



Nice. This is the FM I have been waiting for. Put mine on pre-order.
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#2904837 - 01/26/18 06:23 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: RABid]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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#2904844 - 01/26/18 06:51 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
BenWaB3 Offline
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Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 160
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Originally Posted By: To B3
Very small video of the Numa Compact 2x, still nothing about the organ section. But the sliders work LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCKD70R6jxI



Less talkin' - more playin' would have been helpful....., or a longer video with adequate time for both

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#2904846 - 01/26/18 06:52 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: BenWaB3]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
Yes, hope there's a more comprehensive on the way with a good amount of time spent on the organ model.

Originally Posted By: BenWaB3
Originally Posted By: To B3
Very small video of the Numa Compact 2x, still nothing about the organ section. But the sliders work LOL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCKD70R6jxI



Less talkin' - more playin' would have been helpful....., or a longer video with adequate time for both
_________________________
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#2904865 - 01/26/18 07:40 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: niacin]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7947
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: niacin


Not sure why you guys think this has great piano sounds, the info on Korg's website says 4-way sample switching. This ain't no Grandstage.


Agreed. The sounds are very basic and NOT Grandstage.

Busch.

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#2904875 - 01/26/18 08:15 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: burningbusch]
MorayM Offline
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Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1445
Loc: Wilts, UK
An original synth from Behringer!



2 osc, multimode filter, 1 LFO, 2 env, drive, delay and some other cool stuff. Presumably shipping in 2020? wink
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#2904878 - 01/26/18 08:17 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: MorayM]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6310
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Mackie has new line of headphone amps.
Highly useful.

http://mackie.com/products/hm-series
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#2904881 - 01/26/18 08:24 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12582
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Originally Posted By: niacin


Not sure why you guys think this has great piano sounds, the info on Korg's website says 4-way sample switching. This ain't no Grandstage.


Agreed. The sounds are very basic and NOT Grandstage.

Right. As I mentioned, it appears to be the LP-380 in a stage-friendly box. Far cry from a Grandstage.
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#2904894 - 01/26/18 08:59 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds.


Can you split it with clonewheel/Leslie in your left hand and piano in your right?

Yup.

Paging Allan Evett!

That's a big plus, and one of my major disappointments with the Kurz PC3.

Thanks Scott.
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#2904897 - 01/26/18 09:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
The PC3 can't do that? That's a surprise! I thought it was almost limitless!

Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
[quote=AnotherScott]Unlike the Roland, the Numa gives you independent effect controls on the two split/layered sounds.


Can you split it with clonewheel/Leslie in your left hand and piano in your right?

Yup.

Paging Allan Evett!

That's a big plus, and one of my major disappointments with the Kurz PC3.

Thanks Scott. [/quote]
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#2904900 - 01/26/18 09:06 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Synthaholic Offline
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1650
Loc: Proud Resister of 2nd helpings
Originally Posted By: To B3
The PC3 can't do that? That's a surprise! I thought it was almost limitless!


You can split using the VAST organs but not the KB3.
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The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

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#2904920 - 01/26/18 10:27 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
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Behringer Neutron semi-modular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A
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#2904923 - 01/26/18 10:39 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: GovernorSilver]
Synthoid Online   content
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Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Behringer Neutron semi-modular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A


Ah, something else to wait a year for. roll
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#2904927 - 01/26/18 11:02 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Behringer Neutron semi-modular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vaxG5g266A


Ah, something else to wait a year for. roll



Behringer seems to be following a pattern of late - leak (allegedly) info about some faithful-to-the-original analog reproduction, follow up with a new modern synth instead, which may or may not be followed by a repro (eg. the Model D clone).
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#2904932 - 01/26/18 11:49 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: MorayM]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 4244
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Originally Posted By: MorayM

1 LFO, ...


When I read that, Iīm out ...
I am since I sold my Prophet-5s somewhere early 90s.

A.C.

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#2904942 - 01/26/18 12:27 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Al Coda]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Radial Engineering was acquired by Ultimate Support:

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/business...anis-steps-down

At least they got bought by another good company. And it's a good match for Ultimate as well, as Radial has other brands that do stuff such as acoustic isolation.
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#2904944 - 01/26/18 12:29 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I have already heard feedback from friends at the NAMM Show that the Leslie effect from IK Multimedia is the new gold standard.

I pre-ordered the Leslie Collection last night (this includes both the AmpliTube version and the T-RackS version). I have a gazillion Jam Points so pretty much get 30% off of anything new from IK.
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#2904948 - 01/26/18 12:35 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: JerryA]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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We might need some clarification on the T-RackS version of the Leslie effect (vs. the one for AmpliTube), as Geoff says it's also part of the T-RackS bundle. Does that means that version is free to full T-RackS owners? It seemed from the announcement at the website that both versions require direct purchase (with the convenient "collection" offering both AmpliTube Leslie and T-RackS Leslie at a $50 combined discount).
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#2904988 - 01/26/18 03:20 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
davedoerfler Offline
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Roving Reporter Robbie Gennet of Keyboard Magazine (.com) talks organ technology with Viscount at the 2018 Winter NAMM show.

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Quite simply - If you can't play Jump on it, you don't want it.
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#2905013 - 01/26/18 07:01 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: davedoerfler]
zephonic Online   content
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I was happy to meet David Jameson, co-founder/creator of Gig Performer, they have secured distribution with Ilio and are right next to Synthogy and Spectrasonics.
Also interesting, Kawai have updated the MP7/11 which now carry the SE designation. And Ravenscroft sell a modified version of the Kawai VPC that is tailored and tweaked to be the perfect companion for both the iOS and full-fat Ravenscroft VI.
I saw a series of German DP's I hadn't heard of before, Gewa pianos.

But over all, so far I find this NAMM a bit meh.
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#2905016 - 01/26/18 08:04 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: zephonic]
Tom Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 908
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By: two people combined
Can you split [The PC3] with clonewheel/Leslie in your left hand and piano in your right?
Yes.
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
You can split using the VAST organs but not the KB3.
As long as only one part of the split is KB3, you can certainly do a drawbar/piano split. To make sure I got that right, I just tweaked a stock "two manual" (KB3+VAST) split so it was a transposed-up KB3 on the lower half, and a transposed-down grand piano on the upper half. The KB3 controls all work as long as the KB3 is the "current" layer.


Edited by Tom Williams (01/26/18 08:05 PM)
Edit Reason: misattributed quote
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#2905044 - 01/27/18 12:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Tom Williams]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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The mothership has landed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxWOWUwFWA

This has got to be the weirdest product shown at NAMM this year!

Certainly the largest, and flashiest, touch screen on a keyboard ever!
_________________________
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#2905056 - 01/27/18 04:18 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Marko in Boston Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/03/14
Posts: 100
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The mothership has landed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxWOWUwFWA

This has got to be the weirdest product shown at NAMM this year!

Certainly the largest, and flashiest, touch screen on a keyboard ever!


Amazing! Almost hard to believe this is their entry level keyboard wink http://neuman.yudo.jp/kami-oto.html
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#2905072 - 01/27/18 05:52 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Marko in Boston]
marcmarc Offline
Member

Registered: 03/24/15
Posts: 14
A new 73 notes controller!

SL73 STUDIO
http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sl-studio/

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#2905074 - 01/27/18 05:58 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Synthoid Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 10318
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The mothership has landed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxWOWUwFWA

This has got to be the weirdest product shown at NAMM this year!

Certainly the largest, and flashiest, touch screen on a keyboard ever!



Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf.


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#2905093 - 01/27/18 07:44 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The mothership has landed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxWOWUwFWA

This has got to be the weirdest product shown at NAMM this year!

Certainly the largest, and flashiest, touch screen on a keyboard ever!


I think they borrowed a control panel from Star Trek Voyager.

Edit to add: derp


Edited by Synthaholic (01/27/18 07:46 AM)
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#2905134 - 01/27/18 11:34 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
Rod S Offline
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Black Corporation Deckard's Dream Synthesizer - CS80 clone



Saw this a while ago, never figured I'd see a working prototype.

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#2905140 - 01/27/18 12:00 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Rod S]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rod S

Saw this a while ago, never figured I'd see a working prototype.
US $3750 pre assembled. Didn't hear a price for the kit.
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#2905169 - 01/27/18 01:52 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid


Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf Data.
C'mon man, Worf was Chief of Security.
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#2905177 - 01/27/18 02:35 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: davedoerfler]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Rod S

Saw this a while ago, never figured I'd see a working prototype.
US $3750 pre assembled. Didn't hear a price for the kit.
With the effects module you are looking at a $5K+ synth. Talking with the exhibitors, it seems that it is about a wash to order it preassembled vs building a kit.

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#2905180 - 01/27/18 02:44 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: marcmarc]
Josh Paxton Offline
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Originally Posted By: marcmarc
A new 73 notes controller!

SL73 STUDIO
http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sl-studio/


And just like that, suddenly the idea of doing a gig with just a controller keyboard and my phone got a whole lot more appealing. I'm curious as to what that fourth pedal input is for. Can't make it out in the pic.
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#2905185 - 01/27/18 03:03 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Josh Paxton]
wd8dky Offline
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No PX-5S upgrade/replacement?

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#2905188 - 01/27/18 03:12 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: wd8dky]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: wd8dky
No PX-5S upgrade/replacement?


No. Mike Martin, himself, said that Casio will not be introducing a PX5S upgrade or replacement this year.
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#2905189 - 01/27/18 03:14 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Josh Paxton]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: marcmarc
A new 73 notes controller!

SL73 STUDIO
http://www.studiologic-music.com/products/sl-studio/


And just like that, suddenly the idea of doing a gig with just a controller keyboard and my phone got a whole lot more appealing. I'm curious as to what that fourth pedal input is for. Can't make it out in the pic.


1 and 2 are footswitch 3 is controller 4 is assignable as a switch or controller.
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#2905190 - 01/27/18 03:31 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Marzzz]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Rod S

Saw this a while ago, never figured I'd see a working prototype.
US $3750 pre assembled. Didn't hear a price for the kit.
With the effects module you are looking at a $5K+ synth. Talking with the exhibitors, it seems that it is about a wash to order it preassembled vs building a kit.


Website has the prices as well as a bunch of sound demos:
http://www.deckardsdream.com/

The effect module isn't just an effects module - it's also a CV input expander that adds CV inputs, sustain jacks, and CV-MIDI converter.


Edited by GovernorSilver (01/27/18 03:33 PM)
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#2905193 - 01/27/18 03:44 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: EscapeRocks]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: wd8dky
No PX-5S upgrade/replacement?


No. Mike Martin, himself, said that Casio will not be introducing a PX5S upgrade or replacement this year at Winter NAMM.
Clarified it for you. thu

[I'm NOT saying there will be one later this year. I don't know. But I didn't want to see words put in Mike's mouth that he didn't say. I know you didn't mean to do that, Dave. I just thought it was important to be clear as the thought that there "will not be a PX-5S upgrade this year period" could set some people off.]
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#2905194 - 01/27/18 03:52 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Joe Muscara]
Synthoid Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Synthoid


Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf Data.
C'mon man, Worf was Chief of Security.


Not in the first season of TNG. laugh
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#2905195 - 01/27/18 03:54 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Joe Muscara]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: wd8dky
No PX-5S upgrade/replacement?


No. Mike Martin, himself, said that Casio will not be introducing a PX5S upgrade or replacement this year at Winter NAMM.
Clarified it for you. thu

[I'm NOT saying there will be one later this year. I don't know. But I didn't want to see words put in Mike's mouth that he didn't say. I know you didn't mean to do that, Dave. I just thought it was important to be clear as the thought that there "will not be a PX-5S upgrade this year period" could set some people off.]


YOu're right. I misread the post on the FB PX5S forum
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#2905268 - 01/28/18 06:08 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Synthoid


Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf Data.
C'mon man, Worf was Chief of Security.


Not in the first season of TNG. laugh

hand If you want to argue particulars, he of course was made Acting Chief of Security after Tasha was killed in the first season. wave And how many time did Worf sit at navigation/help/ops/conn of the course of the series?
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#2905281 - 01/28/18 07:00 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Joe Muscara]
hardware Offline
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If anyone here buys the IK Leslie would love to hear a Blue3, B5 or HX-3 through it.
Iím very happy with my various clean Doppler FX/Leslieís but still mourn the loss of the Tube soaked Horn.
This digital distortion just ainít cutting it.
Nor are my Tube pedals/racks.
Lester K is damn nice but not controlling the ramp is a bummer.
Tried GSi, Neo.....

The search continues
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#2905284 - 01/28/18 07:15 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: hardware]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: hardware
If anyone here buys the IK Leslie would love to hear a Blue3, B5 or HX-3 through it.
Iím very happy with my various clean Doppler FX/Leslieís but still mourn the loss of the Tube soaked Horn.
This digital distortion just ainít cutting it.
Nor are my Tube pedals/racks.
Lester K is damn nice but not controlling the ramp is a bummer.
Tried GSi, Neo.....

So you're finding the overdrive of the Lester K to be better than that in the Burn or Ventilator?

Have you tried the Lounsberry Tall and Fat?

In what way does the Lester's ramp seems off to you, how would you want to change it?
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#2905304 - 01/28/18 09:20 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Markyboard Offline
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Here are a few pics I took at the show:

Walking by this I recalled someone here intersted in these stands. This one looks nice:


This one cried out "oil can...oil can"


One of the best looking synths ever imo.


Got to play with this for about 20 minutes - first time ever. Star of the show love love love


And if you ever wondered if all keyboardist think alike....


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#2905311 - 01/28/18 10:07 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
Marzzz Offline
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And that CS-80 was not exactly in tip-top condition. Still, it was very nice to be able to directly compare it to the Deckardís Dream. My personal verdict was that the DD sounded great, but lacked that characteristic mid-range fuzziness of the CS-80.

btw- what is that you guys were eating??

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#2905312 - 01/28/18 10:08 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Joe Muscara]
BenWaB3 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 160
Loc: Lancaster, PA
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
[quote=Synthoid]

Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf Data.
C'mon man, Worf was Chief of Security.


Not in the first season of TNG. laugh

hand If you want to argue particulars, he of course was made Acting Chief of Security after Tasha was killed in the first season. wave And how many time did Worf sit at navigation/help/ops/conn of the course of the series? [/quote]

Didn't have the time (or inclination) to find out the title of this episode but it did have a couple better scenes than this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQLQ56tkO6Y

Maybe someone with a better knowledge can put out the episode title. In the mean time.......back to the subject of the NAMM show.... smile
PS: My actual post actually starts with the word "Didn't". Somehow the last previous reply did'nt make it into the quote box.


Edited by BenWaB3 (01/28/18 10:11 AM)

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#2905326 - 01/28/18 11:28 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: BenWaB3]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
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Loc: San Diego CA, US
Hereís a quick core dump of my NAMM impressions from this year.

Iíve sold off a lot of instruments in the last year and I think for the first time ever, find myself with no backup keyboard other than what I gig with (Crumar Mojo 61 + Stage 2). I would like to get one other keyboard for the rehearsal space, and itís something that needs to do tonewheel organ well, so that was the focus of my attention. So, in no particular order:

The Hammond XK-5ís multiple key contacts are cute but to be honest I donít think they add much to the playing experience. They kinda come across as more of a marketing gimmick than anything. I would have expected them to try to model how the multiple key contacts together generate keyclick, but instead it sounded like they just picked one keydip position to barf out the same keyclick sample for every key. And the keyclick was really loud. I wanted to turn the keyclick down and couldnít figure out how. The menu layout looks essentially the same as on the Sk series but for whatever reason, I couldnít find the setting. On the other hand, the chorus/vibrato sounded really good to me. The C3 has a nice shimmer without overdoing it.

The new Hammond Skx I liked much better overall. The extra voices sounded improved from the Sk1. I went back to an Sk1 to make sure, but the acoustic piano did sound much better on the Skx. I could totally see gigging with this instrument and having the flexibility of putting AP or Rhodes in the lower manual. Unfortunately, it only has two line outs and the 11-pin. Hopefully theres a way to split the outputs so you can send organ to Leslie and everything else to speaks.

I havenít played a Numa in ages but I played the Numa Compact 2x and found the tonewheel organ to be terrible. Just terrible. The Leslie sounded cartoonish. It reminded me of an old ROMpled organ patch from a 1990s rack synth. I didnít bother with any of the other voices. It really is bad.

The Viscount Legend Solo was very nice. It offers a lot of useful front panel controls, so thereís no menu-diving with this keyboard. The controls are presented as two sets of small knobs, so that will take some getting used to so you can grab the right one intuitively. Action felt a little stiff to me. Sounded great. The chorus/vib sounded good and I would love to have been able to A/B between it and the XK-5 to see who comes out on top, but I think the Legend was the best of the show.

Dexibell J7: nice form factor and I liked the keybed. The Leslie sim had an extremely unpleasant warble in tremolo mode. I poked around in the menus to see if there was a way to set the mic distance further back, but couldnít find anything. This is the instrument that has motorized drawbar faders, and the expression pedal was mapped to morph last 3 or 4 drawbars. What was weird was when you turned morphing off, the expression pedal didnít do anything. Nor did sustain. I poked around the menus some more and couldnít figure out how to give these their expected function. The experience left me feeling the instrument is still a little rough around the edges.

I was not a fan of the VR-09 when it came out, but I havenít listened to one in awhile and I understand thereís new firmware out that improved things, so I was really looking forward to giving it a listen. But the Roland booth was weird - they had very few instruments set up for you to walk up and play - most of them were up on risers, behind ropes, being demonstrated. They had a bunch of DJ stuff you could play with and some digital pianos but that was about it.

The new Vox Continental was kinda fun. I canít really articulate why this is, as the tonewheel organ is not the most faithful reproduction out there. But the combination of instruments and the way theyíre presented ended up making for kind of a satisfying instrument to play, even if they did have it set up at thigh level for some weird reason.

At the end of all of this, the conclusion I came to is that I should just get another Mojo 61 for the rehearsal room. The acoustic piano isnít very good, but I still think the tonewheel organ is the best one out there, and the Rhodes is pretty fantastic, and those are the two instruments I use the most.

I also stopped by the BookerLAB booth. The owner Tom was demonstrating a retrofit system for Leslie speakers that replaces the AC motors with high-torque low voltage DC motors, using the original belts and pulleys. There are many advantages to using DC motors: reliability, and the ability to dial in specific speeds and ramp-up and ramp-down times and adding a stop mode. I think he needs to add MIDI control, but I like the idea a lot. There is no ship date - he was demonstrating prototypes and testing the waters to see how much interest there is. Iím interested.

I like the new layout at NAMM. It was nice how all the really high end pro audio gear has been reconsolidated into the new ACC North building, instead of spread out all over the show, and they did a good job of keeping similar instruments grouped together. Hall E now has a ton of empty space, and the arena was nearly empty. I felt bad for the 2 or 3 venders left behind in the arena outpost.

Itís amusing to see the progression in NAMM Security Theatre. Many years ago all you needed was a badge, any badge, and you could breeze right into the show. We used to order up extras with comical names for last minute guests. So then they started carefully checking photo IDs against badges. Then last year (or was it the year before?) came the Escalator Nazis, who would limit the number of on the escalator at any given time. Kind of like a freeway onramp signal. This year the Shiny New Thing was the metal detectors at all the entrances. Nobody checked my ID for the first day and a half. It was all about emptying pockets and going through metal detectors. And the now thereís nobody limiting the number of people on the escalators.

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#2905331 - 01/28/18 11:55 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Joe Muscara]
Synthoid Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt
And how many time did Worf sit at navigation/help/ops/conn of the course of the series?


Probably not very often... but season one was 30 years ago. Memory ain't what it used to be. smile

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#2905332 - 01/28/18 11:57 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Marzzz]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5861
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Marzzz
And that CS-80 was not exactly in tip-top condition. Still, it was very nice to be able to directly compare it to the Deckardís Dream. My personal verdict was that the DD sounded great, but lacked that characteristic mid-range fuzziness of the CS-80.

btw- what is that you guys were eating??


Chicken Pot Pie. Curious - what was wrong with the CS-80? I was in heaven checking out many parameters and didn't come across anything that seemed less than wonderful. But then I have no reference point. Cosmetically it looked near perfect. According to the Yamaha rep it sat in their commercial audio room for 20 years. Supposedly no one from there knew what it was and apparently they even thought it was a mixer. As I write this it's sounding like maybe a bit of marketing folklore at work here? That and they printed up new brochures for it idk hitt facepalm

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#2905334 - 01/28/18 12:05 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
Synthoid Online   content
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 10318
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: Marzzz
btw- what is that you guys were eating??


Chicken Pot Pie.


Wow... funky. Quite different than what we have here in PA. Our chicken pot pie looks like a pie; top and bottom crust, with chicken and vegetables inside.
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#2905345 - 01/28/18 12:42 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: OB Dave]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: OB Dave
The Hammond XK-5ís multiple key contacts are cute but to be honest I donít think they add much to the playing experience.
The other things that intrigue me about the XK5 are the three different models (A100, B3, C3 from whatever years), and the combination of digital and tube overdrive. Did you get to play with any of that stuff?

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
The new Hammond Skx I liked much better overall. The extra voices sounded improved from the Sk1. I went back to an Sk1 to make sure, but the acoustic piano did sound much better on the Skx.


Great to get confirmation of an improved piano in the SKx. Any chance they improved the overdrive? That was my biggest complaint about the SK1 sound. Also, I felt that the click and percussion weren't as "spitty" as I'd like.

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
Unfortunately, it only has two line outs and the 11-pin. Hopefully theres a way to split the outputs so you can send organ to Leslie and everything else to speaks.

On the other SK models, there was an option to send organ out only to the multipin connector and the rest of the sounds to the 1/4", hopefully they're still doing that and providing an adapter like they did for the SK1's 8-pin so it could go to a Vent or whatever. Nicely, this approach means you still have stereo for your other sounds.

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
I havenít played a Numa in ages but I played the Numa Compact 2x and found the tonewheel organ to be terrible. Just terrible. The Leslie sounded cartoonish. It reminded me of an old ROMpled organ patch from a 1990s rack synth. I didnít bother with any of the other voices. It really is bad.

What a shame. As I feared, it sounds like it's the same old Numa Compact rotary effect, instead of the great rotary effect in the Numa Organ 2. If you get a chance to play that one, check it out. The Numa Organ 2 (like the XK5) also gives you three different Hammond models to choose from (you select them with the three rightmost reverse preset keys (when those keys are on Sound rather than Preset mode).

Originally Posted By: OB Dave

Dexibell J7: nice form factor and I liked the keybed. The Leslie sim had an extremely unpleasant warble in tremolo mode.

That astonishingly bad tremolo I've heard on youtube videos is why I've had so little interest in checking further. Though I think the moving drawbars is way cool. As I mentioned early on, if those drawbars both sent AND received MIDI from a Gemini module (meaning the Gemini also has to be able to send), that could make for a very cool (albeit pricey) VB3 controller. I'm waiting for someone to try it!


Originally Posted By: OB Dave
At the end of all of this, the conclusion I came to is that I should just get another Mojo 61 for the rehearsal room. The acoustic piano isnít very good, but I still think the tonewheel organ is the best one out there, and the Rhodes is pretty fantastic, and those are the two instruments I use the most.

At its price, it's probably the best organ+rhodes you can get. But if it were my only board for rehearsal, I might be frustrated by the 61 key limitation. I'd be tempted to look at an Electro 5D-73, or if on a lower budget, Roland VR-730 or Kurzweil Artis7, if you find these organ sounds good enough. I know someone who makes cool drawbar keycaps for the Kurz. ;-)
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#2905350 - 01/28/18 12:55 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Although it was announced (and became available) near the end of last year, the NAMM Show was probably the first big presentation of the "ES" updates to the Kawai MP-series stage pianos, and so now we finally have some useful audio demos from various resellers at YouTube, along with some very recent reviews, shootouts, and comparisons.

I am already 95% certain this is the route I am going to take, for my first digital piano or DAW in 3-4 years (it's been a patient wait). The new high-end Kawai acoustic piano samples are to my ears many factors better than the older samples (some people -- especially rock players, which I'm not -- prefer the older samples, which are still present), and both the new keybed and the new non-Fatar tri-pedals have multiple contact points and the digital equivalent of escapement.

So going for a CA-98 doubles the price, and at this point (after the "ES" upgrades to the MP line), isn't as radical an improvement (on paper, at least).

I am hoping to compare the previous models at the local piano store, sometime this week or next, but it's really hard to break away from work as I'm a sole developer with no backup or overlap with anyone else.

It's good to know that the Mojo 61 has a good Rhodes -- I haven't looked at that line in many years and it didn't even occur to me that it would have anything but tonewheel organ. I'll listen for some demos, but I do feel that Kawai's e-pianos are fairly good (if not as good as Yamaha's) and way better than Dexibel's.

UPDATE: I found a bunch of audio demos and shootouts for the Crumar Mojo 61, for tonewheel organ, Clavinet, Rhodes, and Wurly, and detest it across-the-board. It makes me cringe. The timbre is all wrong to my ears, the details of articulations are lost, and really the only plus is that aspects such as vibrato may come off a bit more realistic. But I'd take the Electro over it, for every voicing. Glad I checked though.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (01/28/18 01:08 PM)
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#2905353 - 01/28/18 01:09 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5878
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I played the new sample in the Kawai MP11SE. MUCH improved over the MP11. And this was with low grade Senn headphones. In fact the Senn phones they used in their room were of such poor quality it made the new and much heralded Novus NV10 Hybrid sounded harsh and grating. I didn't even get to 30 seconds on it before I said, man that's enough of that. Didn't hear it with just the internal speakers. It HAS to sound better then what I heard, especially for the dough they're charging and trying to go head to head with the AvantGrand. wink

The MP11SE fared much better, for whatever reason, with the same crummy phones. idk
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#2905355 - 01/28/18 01:17 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Dave Ferris]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Dave, that's good feedback. I think crappy headphones can be useful, as they may expose some imbalances in the dynamics, frequency spectrum, and even in the articulations.
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#2905361 - 01/28/18 01:23 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5861
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: Marzzz
btw- what is that you guys were eating??


Chicken Pot Pie.


Wow... funky. Quite different than what we have here in PA. Our chicken pot pie looks like a pie; top and bottom crust, with chicken and vegetables inside.


Everywhere else I've had it as well. But this tasted very good although NAMM induced appetites may be misleading.
Funny how discussion of CPP is still on-topic here. cheers

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#2905369 - 01/28/18 01:37 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Synthoid Online   content
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 10318
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Yeah it looks good--nice flaky crust.

I'm hungry now.
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#2905373 - 01/28/18 01:52 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
Marzzz Offline
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Registered: 11/24/00
Posts: 2506
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
[quote=Marzzz]Chicken Pot Pie. Curious - what was wrong with the CS-80? I was in heaven checking out many parameters and didn't come across anything that seemed less than wonderful. But then I have no reference point. Cosmetically it looked near perfect. According to the Yamaha rep it sat in their commercial audio room for 20 years. Supposedly no one from there knew what it was and apparently they even thought it was a mixer. As I write this it's sounding like maybe a bit of marketing folklore at work here? That and they printed up new brochures for it idk hitt facepalm


I love chicken pot pie! Nice version of it because I donít like TOO much crust....

The CS-80 (they had it there last year also) was a little funky in the keyboard in the bottom octave- especially with pressure and velocity response, but yeah it definitely was the real deal. It would be so cool if Yamaha could recreate it in some way- there is a basic architecture to it (something about Hz/oct as opposed to volts/oct; I need to leave look up the reference) that gives it that distinct fuzziness. The Deckardís Dream goes about it differently.

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#2905393 - 01/28/18 02:57 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
hardware Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 03/04/14
Posts: 1362
Loc: Macau
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: hardware
If anyone here buys the IK Leslie would love to hear a Blue3, B5 or HX-3 through it.
Iím very happy with my various clean Doppler FX/Leslieís but still mourn the loss of the Tube soaked Horn.
This digital distortion just ainít cutting it.
Nor are my Tube pedals/racks.
Lester K is damn nice but not controlling the ramp is a bummer.
Tried GSi, Neo.....


So you're finding the overdrive of the Lester K to be better than that in the Burn or Ventilator?
Have you tried the Lounsberry Tall and Fat?
In what way does the Lester's ramp seems off to you, how would you want to change it?


Lester K has a fixed down ramp.
I always prefer a longer ramp for lengthier Doppler effect like Pink Floyd DSOTM, or Goldys Ramp on the Pusher.
I hate hearing the rotor damn near stop and the woofy baffle slowing down all by his self...

Iíve got the best clean-ish Leslie on the HX-3, the software based Leslieís are highly tweakable but theyíre 1s and 0s.
IK Leslie will be 1s and 0s, hopefully with girth.

Iím just a whiny old bastard never happy with new Hammonds SKs, or their smaller Leslieís. My guess Ill never be happy, but Iíll keep trying.

Fat & Tall is a decent Pedal, I donít really need as I am well stocked with Tube Pres already.
I do get a decent sound from Blue3. To get the Leslie to grind more I have to slightly adjust the balance and extra drive, and if Iím just doing B3 parts itís pretty decent, but I am always covering 3-5 parts on my K4 and Solaris keeps me busy.

Weíll see wassup with IK.
ITs the last little thing of my sound Iím still lacking.
Everything else is fine.
Best smacking Horn Sections Iíve ever had by combining 5 zones of various instruments.
Took weeks to get different instruments to all share the same keyswitches.
My FS-6 and 2 buttons cover PLAY, LASS and all Horn articulations well.

Need that damn ramp though.....
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#2905402 - 01/28/18 04:12 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
OB Dave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
At its price, it's probably the best organ+rhodes you can get. But if it were my only board for rehearsal, I might be frustrated by the 61 key limitation. I'd be tempted to look at an Electro 5D-73, or if on a lower budget, Roland VR-730 or Kurzweil Artis7, if you find these organ sounds good enough. I know someone who makes cool drawbar keycaps for the Kurz. ;-)


Ha. You know how when you pet a cat too long, one moment it's purring, and the next moment your arm is bleeding? I think that's where I am at with the Nord organs now. It was the best thing going at the time it came out, but so much progress has been made by other manufacturers and Nord's organ sound really has not progressed. It sounds very dated to my ears and I don't find it all that satisfying to play. If anything, I think the Electro 2 organ sounded better than the Stage 2 organ. The Stage 3 organ didn't exactly knock me out either. It would be wonderful having all that sample memory available for the pianos, though. So another Nord is not in the cards for me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Mojo 61 is the best sounding Hammond clone out there at *any* price point. You've got like 17 different vintage consoles to choose from, and the editing capabilities are plenty deep. I've not played the MAG yet, but they're pretty much unicorn instruments over here. I did have an HX-3 at one point, and that's a pretty solid foundation. It would be great to play a MAG and see how well it all hangs together in an integrated package.

Oh, and one other NAMM data point: there was an exhibitor there who sells musical instrument insurance, and since that was the topic of another thread, I'll revive that thread with my findings.

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#2905443 - 01/28/18 08:47 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: OB Dave]
zephonic Online   content
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Iím gonna write a blog post about this yearís NAMM over the next few days, but one thing I can reveal is that Myron McKinley appears to be the next Jordan Rudess; he was all over the place, demoing products for everybody.
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#2905456 - 01/28/18 10:22 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
Geoff Grace Offline
10k Club

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Wow... funky. Quite different than what we have here in PA. Our chicken pot pie looks like a pie; top and bottom crust, with chicken and vegetables inside.


Everywhere else I've had it as well. But this tasted very good although NAMM induced appetites may be misleading.
Funny how discussion of CPP is still on-topic here. cheers

Yeah, that was my first square pot pie as well; and I've lived in California for roughly half of my life.

It was an honor to be part of the inaugural pot pie club! cool

Best,

Geoff
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#2905457 - 01/28/18 10:29 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10985
I stopped by the IK Multimedia booth and asked whether the Leslie software introductory price would end any time soon and was told that it should last at least until the product is released in March and possibly for a month afterward.

I also asked the u-he rep how long it would be before they supported High Sierra and was told it would be roughly between 2-4 months from now.

Best,

Geoff
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#2905459 - 01/28/18 10:41 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Dave Ferris]
Kawai James Offline
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Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Dave,

Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Kawai...low grade Senn headphones.


I've raised this point with my colleagues at Kawai America several times in the past. I'm sorry things have still not improved.

My apologies.

Kind regards,
James
x
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#2905460 - 01/28/18 11:03 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Kawai James]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5878
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Not your fault James. Yeah amazing they don't get it huh ?

I know your new Hybrid has to sound better then that but what about the person who isn't quite as savvy, and doesn't live within 300 miles of a Kawai dealer, plus only has the NAMM show to judge the sound quality live.

By continually using headphones that are that Bb quality, it's not very flattering for any electronic keyboard.

On a positive note, I liked the Shigeru SK-7 they had in their room. Definitely one of the nicer pianos I played. thu

And again, nice job on the new sample on the MP11SE.


Edited by Dave Ferris (01/28/18 11:15 PM)
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#2905473 - 01/29/18 02:10 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthoid]
mauriziodececco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 249
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
The mothership has landed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxWOWUwFWA

This has got to be the weirdest product shown at NAMM this year!

Certainly the largest, and flashiest, touch screen on a keyboard ever!



Warp speed Captain?

Engage, Mr. Worf.







Believe it or not, back in the end of 70s this was my secret projet (i was in electronic school); given the technology limitation of the time, it had to be a plasma screen, touch, and the electronic had to be analog; the idea was to use the screen to connect modules and control parameters; so, yes, a modular controlled by a digital interface; never went beyond a vague concept phase with my fellow students :->
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#2905476 - 01/29/18 03:45 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: OB Dave]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
So... still not much about the Numa Compact 2x, reviews, videos, nothing... Not even from Studiologic themselves on their FB page or YT channel... Was it that bad as OB Dave said on this thread? I'm particularly looking to know/hear more of the tonewheel/leslie model...
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#2905527 - 01/29/18 07:48 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: OB Dave]
Adan Offline
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Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 2601
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: OB Dave

The new Vox Continental was kinda fun. I canít really articulate why this is, as the tonewheel organ is not the most faithful reproduction out there. But the combination of instruments and the way theyíre presented ended up making for kind of a satisfying instrument to play, even if they did have it set up at thigh level for some weird reason.



Great report, very valuable to have the insights of an experienced clonewheeler on all the latest stuff.

As an owner of a Vox Continental, I have to agree, it's a fun and compelling instrument. It doesn't split, and it doesn't compete in authenticity with the best B3 emulations, and those shortcoming will probably scratch it off a lot of people's lists. But it's got some great sounds, a great feeling keybed, an intuitive and fun physical layout, and a characterful form. I particularly like playing EPs on it.
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#2905528 - 01/29/18 07:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Zadillo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: To B3
So... still not much about the Numa Compact 2x, reviews, videos, nothing... Not even from Studiologic themselves on their FB page or YT channel... Was it that bad as OB Dave said on this thread? I'm particularly looking to know/hear more of the tonewheel/leslie model...


There's an Anderton's 6 minute video of it (they titled it "Numa Compact 2" instead of 2x so almost didn't find it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccLy9h5O1I

I'm really hoping we'll get some more details soon, they're also being really vague about the Sledge synth built in.

I've got a Numa Compact 2 and like it quite a bit, and I'm trying to get a better sense of whether or not it's worth upgrading for the new engines and the faders

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#2905543 - 01/29/18 08:34 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Zadillo]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
Oh, thanks for the find... I too am hoping for a better video... Since you have the Numa Compact 2, I'd like to ask you something that intrigues me and I could not find anywhere: where can you save your modified sounds and how do you access them? There's nothing about this on the manual or the videos, no user sound buttons or banks... Any way to quick access your customized sounds quickly (like the favorites buttons on the roland VR09) or just via the wheel?

Originally Posted By: Zadillo
Originally Posted By: To B3
So... still not much about the Numa Compact 2x, reviews, videos, nothing... Not even from Studiologic themselves on their FB page or YT channel... Was it that bad as OB Dave said on this thread? I'm particularly looking to know/hear more of the tonewheel/leslie model...


There's an Anderton's 6 minute video of it (they titled it "Numa Compact 2" instead of 2x so almost didn't find it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccLy9h5O1I

I'm really hoping we'll get some more details soon, they're also being really vague about the Sledge synth built in.

I've got a Numa Compact 2 and like it quite a bit, and I'm trying to get a better sense of whether or not it's worth upgrading for the new engines and the faders
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#2905546 - 01/29/18 08:47 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1899
Kinda confused.... is the Numa 2x a variation of the Numa 2 or is it this new 88 key thing?

If the 2x is an update on the 2 I would check some of the other organ models. When I heard the Numa 2 a couple years ago it sounded like crap until I tried a different model. I got one that I liked quite well, and I liked the leslie sim also.

I am also curious as to whether the Roland VR 730 has decent C/V. I was a big fan of the older VK8 engine. You would think that they could do at least as well some 15 years later.

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#2905559 - 01/29/18 09:06 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: LX88]
To B3 Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
I think you are confusing with the "pure" clonewheel, the NUMA ORGAN 2.

The one that it's been talked about here is the Numa Compact 2x. which is an evolution of the Numa Compact 2 digital piano/rompler/controller. Both of them with 88 keys semi weighted.

But now, along with the the existing sounds and functionalities that the old one already had (piano, rompler sounds and controler capabilities), the "x" now has a tonewheel organ model (derived from the Numa Organ 2) and some kind of VA derived from the Sledge. All this with a 700 dollars price tag. It sounds TOO good to be true, that's why I'm VERY intrigued to hear more of the organ/synth parts.

Originally Posted By: LX88
Kinda confused.... is the Numa 2x a variation of the Numa 2 or is it this new 88 key thing?

If the 2x is an update on the 2 I would check some of the other organ models. When I heard the Numa 2 a couple years ago it sounded like crap until I tried a different model. I got one that I liked quite well, and I liked the leslie sim also.

I am also curious as to whether the Roland VR 730 has decent C/V. I was a big fan of the older VK8 engine. You would think that they could do at least as well some 15 years later.
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#2905569 - 01/29/18 09:48 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12582
Originally Posted By: To B3
where can you save your modified sounds and how do you access them? There's nothing about this on the manual or the videos, no user sound buttons or banks... Any way to quick access your customized sounds quickly (like the favorites buttons on the roland VR09) or just via the wheel?

The 99 user sounds are accessed via the wheel, compared to the VR09's 100 user sounds, where the first 16 can be accessed without such scrolling. Though as I mentioned earlier, I find scrolling with a small knob to be much better than Roland's big wheel. But another big difference is that you can access the Numa's 99 via MIDI Program Change, so those sounds ca be directly accessed from a variety of external means, you don't necessarily have to rely on the wheel. The Roland's registrations (after the first 16) cannot be accessed in any way other than scrolling, afaik.
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#2905572 - 01/29/18 10:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
I really like the portability and cutting stage piano sound of the Numa Compact 2. I don't use the organs because there is no timbral control. But I have the VR09 to cover the organ and synth stuff well enough for the live gig.

I really only use the Numa for piano, sometimes layer strings, and pretty good Rhodes and meh Wurly. Twisting the dial is how I get to the desired saved registration, much like the VR09. I'm pretty much a MIDIot, but have seen someone (AnotherScott?) talk about being able to select Compact2 registrations with a CC MIDI controller? The Roland barely speaks midi at all, so I just spin those dials between tunes.


Edited by brenner13 (01/29/18 10:04 AM)
Edit Reason: Yep, that was he...right before my post.
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#2905573 - 01/29/18 10:04 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Geoff Grace]
Randelph Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 474
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
I stopped by the IK Multimedia booth and asked whether the Leslie software introductory price would end any time soon and was told that it should last at least until the product is released in March and possibly for a month afterward.

I also asked the u-he rep how long it would be before they supported High Sierra and was told it would be roughly between 2-4 months from now.

Best,

Geoff


Too bad this is for PC/Mac only, had my hopes up i could get a great sounding Leslie running off my ipad for under $20!
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#2905578 - 01/29/18 10:19 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1650
Loc: Proud Resister of 2nd helpings

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
I havenít played a Numa in ages but I played the Numa Compact 2x and found the tonewheel organ to be terrible. Just terrible. The Leslie sounded cartoonish. It reminded me of an old ROMpled organ patch from a 1990s rack synth. I didnít bother with any of the other voices. It really is bad.


How is the action? If the sounds were there could you see yourself playing it all night?
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#2905583 - 01/29/18 10:36 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
brenner13 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
For me, the C2's keys are different than any other I've ever used. Took several weeks to get used to it, but have grown to like it very much. Still have to turn off the aftertouch for pianos as I tend to dig in pretty hard as the tunes climax and certainly don't want vibrato kicking in on those sounds. Really like the aftertouch on the stacked horns on top of piano...super cool to be able to assign on and off for both upper and lower...the sticks, too.

I used to have pretty sore hands after four hours of boogie woogie and rock n roll on the Kawai. Nothing against that board as it sounds superb and plays great, but I've been a synth and organ player all of my adult life and found that I just don't have the training and dexterity to play weighted keys all night.
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#2905587 - 01/29/18 10:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: brenner13]
GovernorSilver Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5805
Loc: Washington DC
Anybody check out the other Black Corporation synth? The one that's not Deckards Dream?

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2018/01/new-8-voice-poly-analog-from-black.html
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#2905612 - 01/29/18 12:15 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: GovernorSilver]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5861
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Anybody check out the other Black Corporation synth? The one that's not Deckards Dream?

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2018/01/new-8-voice-poly-analog-from-black.html


Dan(RedKey) and I saw it briefly when the rep pulled it out from behind the counter. I thought it was just a front panel prototype and tbh didn't pay much attention to it. We were still wiping up after trying the Deckard's Dream.

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#2905615 - 01/29/18 12:27 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Zadillo Offline
Member

Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 6
Honestly I've mostly just been using the Numa Compact 2 as a lightweight 88 key MIDI controller, with the added bonus of being able to be a passable piano by itself when I don't feel like hooking up to my computer and using a VST.

I probably don't NEED to upgrade because my current use doesn't change much, but I'd be more intrigued if it turns out the Sledge-based synth is actually pretty good.

I'm a bit baffled that StudioLogic doesn't have any kind of official videos or demos yet, but I assume there will be some soon (the Numa Compact 2 got some in depth videos by Sweetwater and Kraft, and and PianoMan Chuck did a detailed look at it).

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#2905667 - 01/29/18 03:14 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Zadillo]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7947
Loc: Ghost Planet
Thank you, Hal Leonard. Jazz guys looking to expand their repertoire can look forward to this.




Busch.

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#2905686 - 01/29/18 04:33 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Zadillo]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12582
Originally Posted By: Zadillo
Honestly I've mostly just been using the Numa Compact 2 as a lightweight 88 key MIDI controller, with the added bonus of being able to be a passable piano by itself when I don't feel like hooking up to my computer and using a VST.

I probably don't NEED to upgrade because my current use doesn't change much, but I'd be more intrigued if it turns out the Sledge-based synth is actually pretty good.

though also, for VST control, the addition of the 9 sliders is nice.
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#2905687 - 01/29/18 04:36 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Jazzooo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 609
Loc: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
Was Aspen there with anything new in his product line?

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#2905694 - 01/29/18 05:24 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Jazzooo]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9649
Loc: Wash DC Area
Calling on Busch, Ferris, Alfredson, etc. to give your thoughts on the Dexibell S3/S7 after laying hands on it.

I'm wondering if the Dexibell is a DP game-changer or a Roland RD spinoff in new clothes. laughcool
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#2905704 - 01/29/18 06:19 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: ProfD]
davedoerfler Offline
KCFF League Champion 2017
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 7545
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Originally Posted By: ProfD
Calling on Busch, Ferris, Alfredson, etc. to give your thoughts on the Dexibell S3/S7 after laying hands on it.


call Dave Ferris for his opinion. wink
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#2905706 - 01/29/18 06:33 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1650
Loc: Proud Resister of 2nd helpings
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
What a shame. As I feared, it sounds like it's the same old Numa Compact rotary effect, instead of the great rotary effect in the Numa Organ 2. If you get a chance to play that one, check it out. The Numa Organ 2 (like the XK5) also gives you three different Hammond models to choose from (you select them with the three rightmost reverse preset keys (when those keys are on Sound rather than Preset mode).

Not according to Keyboard:

The Numa Compact 2x features a tone-wheel organ engine derived from the acclaimed Numa Organ along with Studiologicís Sledge synthesizer engine and a sample-based sound engine with 88 factory sounds including concert pianos with string resonance and 1GB of updatable flash memory.


Also:

*Numa Compact 2 owners will receive fast USB audio performance via a free firmware update coming soon.
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#2905719 - 01/29/18 07:40 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
What a shame. As I feared, it sounds like it's the same old Numa Compact rotary effect, instead of the great rotary effect in the Numa Organ 2.

Not according to Keyboard:

The Numa Compact 2x features a tone-wheel organ engine derived from the acclaimed Numa Organ

Having the same tone-wheel organ engine doesn't mean it has the same Leslie sim. For that matter, it may not even be quite the same tone-wheel organ engine, because "derived from" has wiggle room in it.
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#2905734 - 01/29/18 11:51 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Marzzz]
jverghese Offline
Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: Marzzz
The CS-80 (they had it there last year also) was a little funky in the keyboard in the bottom octave- especially with pressure and velocity response, but yeah it definitely was the real deal. It would be so cool if Yamaha could recreate it in some way- there is a basic architecture to it (something about Hz/oct as opposed to volts/oct; I need to leave look up the reference) that gives it that distinct fuzziness. The Deckardís Dream goes about it differently.
The CS series indeed have linear VCOs (Hz/volt), which gives oscillator detuning a certain quality, often described as a "breadth" of sound. I can explain the theory behind this if someone's interested.

I was surprised to learn that Deckard's Dream unit is based on 3340 VCOs (exponential response, triangular core) as opposed to something closer to the original (linear response, sawtooth core). But, of course, authenticity will depend on the exact implementation.

-joachim

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#2905737 - 01/30/18 01:40 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
JerryA Offline
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Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: jverghese
The CS series indeed have linear VCOs (Hz/volt), which gives oscillator detuning a certain quality, often described as a "breadth" of sound. I can explain the theory behind this if someone's interested.


+1000 thu

Yes, please. boing

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#2905744 - 01/30/18 03:07 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: JerryA]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
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Originally Posted By: JerryA
Originally Posted By: jverghese
The CS series indeed have linear VCOs (Hz/volt), which gives oscillator detuning a certain quality, often described as a "breadth" of sound. I can explain the theory behind this if someone's interested.


+1000 thu

Yes, please. boing


Ditto - it's certainly not intuitive how simple pitch control voltage (I think) would affect the sound character. Marzzz' description of the difference between the CS-80 and Deckard's Dream makes it sound like the latter needs a slew rate modification. freak

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#2905747 - 01/30/18 03:36 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
To B3 Online   content
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Registered: 09/12/07
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That's the derived part that worries me. Hoping that it sounds good, anyway.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
What a shame. As I feared, it sounds like it's the same old Numa Compact rotary effect, instead of the great rotary effect in the Numa Organ 2.

Not according to Keyboard:

The Numa Compact 2x features a tone-wheel organ engine derived from the acclaimed Numa Organ

Having the same tone-wheel organ engine doesn't mean it has the same Leslie sim. For that matter, it may not even be quite the same tone-wheel organ engine, because "derived from" has wiggle room in it.
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#2905761 - 01/30/18 05:02 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
jverghese Offline
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Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Ditto - it's certainly not intuitive how simple pitch control voltage (I think) would affect the sound character. Marzzz' description of the difference between the CS-80 and Deckard's Dream makes it sound like the latter needs a slew rate modification. freak
Maybe I promised too much. I can only explain how linear VCOs differ from exponential in terms of response to CV offsets. However, that's what many believe is one of the defining mechanisms behind the 'CS80 sound'.

In a typical synth, the control voltage paths are affected by small voltage offsets that cause subtle tuning offsets. This is especially true for vintage polysynths that may have a cascade of op-amps in each control path.

A voltage offset in a linear VCO system results in a frequency offset that is essentially constant across the keyboard. Therefore, the beat rate of offset-detuned oscillators is also constant.

In a system featuring exponential VCOs, however, a control voltage offset results in a pitch change. This causes the beat rate of detuned oscillators to vary with pitch. In the bass range you have a slow beat rate, in the upper range a faster beat rate.

Having a constant detuning beat rate across the keyboard tends to sound more chorus-like and controlled when playing chords. If you exaggerate the effect, you will run into 'cacophony' faster with exponential VCOs than with linear.

How these differences translate into a 'broader' or 'bigger' sound is to do with psychoacoustics, I believe -- an area which I'm not very familiar with, unfortunately.

-joachim

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#2905763 - 01/30/18 05:43 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
Markyboard Offline
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Hi Joachim and thanks for your explanation.

I believe what you say is true- there are more pronounced detuning effects across the keyboard with exponential voltages. A VCO puts out one frequency/note at a time and the detuning effect is in relation to the frequency of the other VCOs. As far as "voltage offsets" go for any polyphonic chord I don't believe there would be much difference between linear or exponential VCOs - depending of course how well those oscillators are calibrated. But play some more notes and when that same VCO is called into service again the beat frequency against other notes will be different as you say. Now if the voltages are not just offset but slightly drifting then the exponential VCO will have a more pronounced detuning effect compared to a linear VCO.

I don't believe this has much to do with that magical sound out of the CS-80. That "fizziness" or "warm puffiness" is more a function of the filter, waveforms and saturated VCAs. All speculation based on other synths I'm familiar with since I have no real data to back up my claim.

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#2905773 - 01/30/18 06:29 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: jverghese
[ The CS series indeed have linear VCOs (Hz/volt), which gives oscillator detuning a certain quality, often described as a "breadth" of sound. I can explain the theory behind this if someone's interested.

I was surprised to learn that Deckard's Dream unit is based on 3340 VCOs (exponential response, triangular core) as opposed to something closer to the original (linear response, sawtooth core). But, of course, authenticity will depend on the exact implementation.

Yes, thank you! That was exactly what I was trying to remember. The CS-80 has a completely different architecture, both internally as well as its user interface (taken more from Yamaha's organ line) which gives it its characteristic sound.

The Deckard's Dream takes more of a brute force approach with numerous chips (which ones?) to get its sound. To me, the difference is noticeable. The DD does sound excellent on its own, though- but if you are going to the trouble to recreate a CS-80, why not start with the DNA?

For a period of time I had both an Andromeda and a CS-80; I was able to improve my CS-80 emulations on the A6 by blending in some bandpass in the filter mixer, something it was uniquely able to do. I had a string patch called "Van Jealous" which was uncanny! Unfortunately, the CS-80 and the Andromeda (and all its patches) are long gone...

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#2905787 - 01/30/18 07:29 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
jverghese Offline
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Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 28
There are probably numerous design details that contribute to 'that sound'. I still think the linear response VCO scheme is one of them, and one that is often overlooked. I really hope the designers of the Deckard's Dream unit have implemented the VCO control scheme correctly. If not in hardware, then in software.

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
That "fizziness" or "warm puffiness" is more a function of the filter, waveforms and saturated VCAs. All speculation based on other synths I'm familiar with since I have no real data to back up my claim.
If you are strictly referring to tone colour, then the filters and VCAs will definitely make a difference. Again, the CS80 topology is unique in that you have dedicated filters and VCAs for each VCO. Most other synths mix the VCOs before the filter. In the CS80 any distortion caused by the filter and VCA will be harmonically related to the VCO overtones and will therefore be perceived as timbral modulation (as opposed to inharmonic distortion), which is unlike most other synths. Having said that, and if I recall correctly, the filters and VCAs aren't driven particularly hard in the CS80. But then, the perception of subtleties tends to multiply in polyphonic instruments.

Originally Posted By: Marzzz
The Deckard's Dream takes more of a brute force approach with numerous chips (which ones?) to get its sound. To me, the difference is noticeable. The DD does sound excellent on its own, though- but if you are going to the trouble to recreate a CS-80, why not start with the DNA?
My sentiments exactly.

Originally Posted By: Marzzz
I had a string patch called "Van Jealous" which was uncanny!
LOL. That's a cool name for sure!

-joachim

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#2905791 - 01/30/18 07:44 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Marzzz]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz

The Deckard's Dream takes more of a brute force approach with numerous chips (which ones?) to get its sound. To me, the difference is noticeable. The DD does sound excellent on its own, though- but if you are going to the trouble to recreate a CS-80, why not start with the DNA?


I've been as guilty as anyone of calling the DD a clone, but the introductory text on the website is quite telling:

"Replicants are not clones."

"Deckardís Dream is an 8-voice polyphonic analogue synthesizer inspired by a certain cinematic sound from the late 1970s and early 1980s. Using technology available today (and in the near future), you will be able to play the Deckardís Dream with stunning expressive control."
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#2905794 - 01/30/18 07:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
Markyboard Offline
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Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Very insightful post. NAMM was my first hands-on experience with the CS-80. Had I been exposed to one 40 years ago I might now be looking at Deckard's Dream for a slightly different flavor of CS-80; much like the Voyager to the Minimoog.

Thanks again Joachim. twothumbs

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#2905798 - 01/30/18 08:11 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: GovernorSilver]
jverghese Offline
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Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
I've been as guilty as anyone of calling the DD a clone, but the introductory text on the website is quite telling:

"Replicants are not clones."

"Deckardís Dream is an 8-voice polyphonic analogue synthesizer inspired by a certain cinematic sound from the late 1970s and early 1980s. Using technology available today (and in the near future), you will be able to play the Deckardís Dream with stunning expressive control."
Indeed. Thanks for the reminder!

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#2905860 - 01/30/18 01:05 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
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Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: jverghese
There are probably numerous design details that contribute to 'that sound'. I still think the linear response VCO scheme is one of them, and one that is often overlooked. I really hope the designers of the Deckard's Dream unit have implemented the VCO control scheme correctly. If not in hardware, then in software.


Thank you for your insightful post. thu

It makes sense to me that the linear response scheme is part of the "delicate" sound quality (in conjunction with other unique topologies like the pass-through sine-wave, etc). I admit this is a data-free opinion based on zero time with a CS80, (although I have been fortunate to play an electone E-70 which has some similar components) so I'll try to make the case from the musical context:

In my experience, (IIRC) when detuning a volt per octave synth, you often get a beating rate which is four times faster for every octave you ascend. (someone please correct me if I am wrong on this) The human ear is accustomed to vibrato and tremolo somewhere in the range between 2 HZ and 10 hz. This means that if you hold down a detuned chord spread one octave apart, and your lowest (Baritone voice?) is tremoloing at say 3HZ, then the Alto an octave above is quavering at a breakneck speed of 12 HZ. This density of fluctuation is more like a large ensemble (think symphony orchestra with lots of slightly out of tune violins) than a small one (think string quartet with two violins almost together). By contrast, the hz per volt scheme doesn't have the higher voices beating in the same manic way, for a given amount of beating in the lower voices. I believe this greater alignment between voices helps create the "delicate" and sometimes reedy timbres we often associate with the CS80. Sure the 12DB per octave filter is beautifully fizzy, but in this case it's a delicate fizz.

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#2905868 - 01/30/18 02:02 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: JerryA]
Tom Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/04/14
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Loc: West Virginia
Forgive me if I get pedantic and deconstruct the heck out of this. But hey, you did give permission....
Originally Posted By: JerryA
In my experience, (IIRC) when detuning a volt per octave synth, you often get a beating rate which is four times faster for every octave you ascend.
Whether you're going up by octaves or volts, the frequency change only doubles, not quadruple(s).

Originally Posted By: JerryA
The human ear is accustomed to vibrato and tremolo somewhere in the range between 2 HZ and 10 hz. This means that if you hold down a detuned chord spread one octave apart, and your lowest (Baritone voice?) is tremoloing at say 3HZ, then the Alto an octave above is quavering at a breakneck speed of 12 HZ.
Sorta.

Let's say you start with two VCOs -- Osc 1 and Osc 2, at a pitch of 110 Hz (a Baritone singer's low A, a 10th below middle C). Now add 2/100 volt to Osc2's pitch control. It will increase the pitch by about 24 cents, causing a pleasant enough chorus rate of about 1.5 Hz (call it wiggles per second, or WPS, for fun). But if we start with the same two VCO's three octaves higher, at 880 Hz (A a 13th above middle C) that same .02 volt increase on Osc 2 will get you a chorus rate of over 12 WPS, more like an Irish tenor on amphetamines. If you go even higher, the wiggles get faster until it actually creates a dissonant pitch.

The advantage, though, of the octave-per-volt method is that most things are easier to do. Need to go up a minor third? Add .25 volts to whatever you already have. Instant interval. Up a 12th? Add 1.583 volts for an even-tempered 12th, or (I think) 1.585 volts for a harmonically perfect 12th.

If you try to do that with linear frequency per volt (or millivolt, whatever) then you have to do voltage multiplication, which ain't so easy as adding.

Barely on-topic: The Kurzweil VAST architecture allows for either kind of detuning -- by cents (with the attendant increased wiggles-per-second as the pitch ascends) or by Hz, which keeps chorusing rates constant across the board.
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#2905963 - 01/31/18 03:38 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Tom Williams]
jverghese Offline
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Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: JerryA
I believe this greater alignment between voices helps create the "delicate" and sometimes reedy timbres we often associate with the CS80.

I think so too. There's a certain tranquility about the instrument that I find especially attractive.

Originally Posted By: JerryA
Sure the 12DB per octave filter is beautifully fizzy, but in this case it's a delicate fizz.

Yes, the LPF+HPF arrangement, and the fact that both filters are hard-wired to track the keyboard. All of those contribute character.

Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
The advantage, though, of the octave-per-volt method is that most things are easier to do.

Absolutely. Vibrato and other pitch modulation sounds better with exponential response, otherwise modulation depth would decrease with increasing pitch. Not surprisingly, the vibrato input on the CS80's VCO chip actually has an exponential response.

Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
Barely on-topic: The Kurzweil VAST architecture allows for either kind of detuning -- by cents (with the attendant increased wiggles-per-second as the pitch ascends) or by Hz, which keeps chorusing rates constant across the board.
That's what I would consider ideal -- to be able to set both pitch and frequency offsets.

-joachim

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#2905981 - 01/31/18 05:20 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Tom Williams]
JerryA Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
Forgive me if I get pedantic and deconstruct the heck out of this. But hey, you did give permission....
Originally Posted By: JerryA
In my experience, (IIRC) when detuning a volt per octave synth, you often get a beating rate which is four times faster for every octave you ascend.
Whether you're going up by octaves or volts, the frequency change only doubles, not quadruple(s).


Absolutely my brother. thu

Yeah, you are right! I was all wet on the 4X and I kinds sensed something was wrong which is why I asked ... I was twiddling one of my goto patches on the Slim Phatty to count beats as I was typing ... where one oscillator is tuned an octave above the other. facepalm

I think the concept stands however as you describe excellently in more detail. Additionally the buzziness is accentuated for every interaction of harmonics as well as fundamentals.

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#2905984 - 01/31/18 05:26 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
JerryA Offline
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Originally Posted By: jverghese
Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
Barely on-topic: The Kurzweil VAST architecture allows for either kind of detuning -- by cents (with the attendant increased wiggles-per-second as the pitch ascends) or by Hz, which keeps chorusing rates constant across the board.
That's what I would consider ideal -- to be able to set both pitch and frequency offsets.

-joachim


Yeah, Kurzweil rocks in so many ways. I miss my Nord Modular during discussions like these. cool

I am not sure whether Moog will ever want to build a polyphonic synth, but if they do, the "beat frequency" feature of the sub series synths could be a winning inclusion, particularly if it is modulatable.

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#2905988 - 01/31/18 05:37 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Tom Williams]
mauriziodececco Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom Williams

The advantage, though, of the octave-per-volt method is that most things are easier to do. Need to go up a minor third? Add .25 volts to whatever you already have. Instant interval. Up a 12th? Add 1.583 volts for an even-tempered 12th, or (I think) 1.585 volts for a harmonically perfect 12th.


Yes; and VC keyboard or MIDI to CV DACS; they become linear, and easy to implements.

By the way, AFAIK internal oscillators circuits are always (?) linear (V/Hz) (cycle set in some way by a VC dependent current charging
a capacitor) and there is a kind of non linear converter in the circuit to get the desired V/Octave behavior.
Does anybody know an oscillator circuit that is inherently exponential ?

Maurizio
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#2906018 - 01/31/18 08:04 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
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Originally Posted By: jverghese
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
I've been as guilty as anyone of calling the DD a clone, but the introductory text on the website is quite telling:

"Replicants are not clones."

"Deckardís Dream is an 8-voice polyphonic analogue synthesizer inspired by a certain cinematic sound from the late 1970s and early 1980s. Using technology available today (and in the near future), you will be able to play the Deckardís Dream with stunning expressive control."
Indeed. Thanks for the reminder!


Just wanted to say I appreciate your thoughtful posts on the CS-80 and such.

The DD site claims the CS-80 utilized custom/exclusive chips, which suggests the lack of access to such chips drove the DD design.

Their other synth appears to be inspired by an even more obscure line of synths - the PolyKobol and Kobol; the former being yet another entry into the eternal debate over which is the "best analog poly evah!" (Jupiter 8 vs. Oberheim OB-X/a vs CS-80 vs. whatever).
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#2906026 - 01/31/18 08:45 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: GovernorSilver]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5861
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver


The DD site claims the CS-80 utilized custom/exclusive chips, which suggests the lack of access to such chips drove the DD design.


I wonder if anyone will re-issue these custom chips. Right now I'm guessing owning a CS-80 means back to paying $100/chip like the CEMs were going for a couple of years ago or worse - not available. Either way that kind of squelches my desire to own one.

I found this which on page 2 gives a very good explanation of Hertz/Volt vs Volts/octave.

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#2906042 - 01/31/18 09:27 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
jverghese Offline
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Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 28
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
I wonder if anyone will re-issue these custom chips. Right now I'm guessing owning a CS-80 means back to paying $100/chip like the CEMs were going for a couple of years ago or worse - not available. Either way that kind of squelches my desire to own one.

I don't think we will ever see reissues of Yamaha's IG-chips, they didn't have the universal status that the Curtis chips had. (Unless Mr B decides to make a clone and acquires the rights :))

Personally, I would have started out with the core of the Chroma VCO, which is based on a chip that is still available (NJM4151), and uses the same principle as the Yamaha VCO. The rest could be built with discrete transistors. Board space restrictions might become an issue, though, so in that sense the 3340 is attractive.

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
I found this which on page 2 gives a very good explanation of Hertz/Volt vs Volts/octave.

Yeah!

Thanks to everyone for the discussion, much appreciated (although this is getting quite a bit off-topic).

-joachim

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#2906152 - 01/31/18 06:20 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: jverghese]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 242
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Getting back on-topic, I finally had the privilege of traveling to Winter NAMM for the first time, and finally got a chance to play many of these instruments first hand. Sorry for the late post, but I will try to review a few of the instruments mentioned earlier here based on my humble opinion.

SHOW Notables:

Kawai MP11SE & MP7SE: the improvements that Kawai made to both of these instruments really deserve a special mention. These keyboards frankly also deserved new model names as well. NEW piano & extra voice samples (and the old ones weren't bad), the best feeling DP Keyboard action (MP11SE) & the upgrade to the RH-III triple sensor action (MP7SE...now the same as the ES8) made playing both of these a joy. Too bad there was no show literature and Kawai used low-grade headphones....and the MP11SE still sounded great! The MP7SE also had great tonewheel sounds inside as well. Given the sound & playability I am feeling that there is a new MP7SE in my future later this year.

Studiologic SL88-Grand/SL88-Studio/SL73-Studio....all 3 had weighted actions with surprisingly good playability

NUMA Compact2X: best bang-for-the-buck board that I saw and played there IMHO.....GREAT raw organ tone and percussion, basic Sledge synthesis, upgradeable sounds & 1 GB Flash memory, but a flexible, non-intuitive interface that required...."exploration" to gain a handle on...supports audio over USB, & the headphone jack can be also assigned as a AUX

Roland VR-730: As I tried other boards there I kept going back to this instrument.....it still had a refinement that some of the others lacked, all of it's sounds were great, and it is also the most 'gig-ready' in some ways ....the organ is improved, and the action was very playable for nearly all of it's voices

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#2906240 - 02/01/18 04:40 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: The_Star_Guy]
To B3 Online   content
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Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 883
Finally something more about the tonewheel engine of the Numa Compact 2x! Tks The_Star_Guy. Is the organ really similar to the Numa Organ family? You said about the raw tone... But can you talk about the leslie sim? Is it the same of the Numa Organ (1 or 2)?

And what about the upgradeable sounds?

If you could compare it, organ-wise and in general to the Roland VR-730, it would be great and would ease my comprehension about the Compact 2x, as I have a VR-09.

Still no videos tho, official or non-official... frown

Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
Getting back on-topic, I finally had the privilege of traveling to Winter NAMM for the first time, and finally got a chance to play many of these instruments first hand. Sorry for the late post, but I will try to review a few of the instruments mentioned earlier here based on my humble opinion.

SHOW Notables:

Kawai MP11SE & MP7SE: the improvements that Kawai made to both of these instruments really deserve a special mention. These keyboards frankly also deserved new model names as well. NEW piano & extra voice samples (and the old ones weren't bad), the best feeling DP Keyboard action (MP11SE) & the upgrade to the RH-III triple sensor action (MP7SE...now the same as the ES8) made playing both of these a joy. Too bad there was no show literature and Kawai used low-grade headphones....and the MP11SE still sounded great! The MP7SE also had great tonewheel sounds inside as well. Given the sound & playability I am feeling that there is a new MP7SE in my future later this year.

Studiologic SL88-Grand/SL88-Studio/SL73-Studio....all 3 had weighted actions with surprisingly good playability

NUMA Compact2X: best bang-for-the-buck board that I saw and played there IMHO.....GREAT raw organ tone and percussion, basic Sledge synthesis, upgradeable sounds & 1 GB Flash memory, but a flexible, non-intuitive interface that required...."exploration" to gain a handle on...supports audio over USB, & the headphone jack can be also assigned as a AUX

Roland VR-730: As I tried other boards there I kept going back to this instrument.....it still had a refinement that some of the others lacked, all of it's sounds were great, and it is also the most 'gig-ready' in some ways ....the organ is improved, and the action was very playable for nearly all of it's voices



Edited by To B3 (02/01/18 04:41 AM)
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#2906243 - 02/01/18 05:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12582
Originally Posted By: To B3
Still no videos tho, official or non-official... frown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccLy9h5O1I

Starts with the Numa Compact 2, but skip to 1:27 for the 2+. Organ raw tone at 4:50, he does not have the rotary effect enabled.
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#2906251 - 02/01/18 05:08 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
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That's a very, very bad video IMHO.. much talkin, little wankin on the presets... and even less time on the new features like the organ part... As far as I'm concerned, there's only this video and another short one with Chris Martirano that shows nothing too... Really strange this lack of material about this new board...

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: To B3
Still no videos tho, official or non-official... frown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GccLy9h5O1I

Starts with the Numa Compact 2, but skip to 1:27 for the 2+. Organ raw tone at 4:50, he does not have the rotary effect enabled.
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#2906264 - 02/01/18 05:57 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: To B3
That's a very, very bad video IMHO

Yup. But at least it's something.

Originally Posted By: To B3
much talkin, little wankin on the presets...

Plus the playing was done by someone who had never seen/used the board before. He could at least have asked for a few tips, like how to turn the split off, or how to do sound selection. He was only hitting tone category buttons, which meant that he was not recalling full patches (that's why there was no rotary automatically applied on the organ), plus we only heard the first tone under each category (which is why we got to hear the FM EP, but not the Rhodes or Wurli).

Originally Posted By: To B3
Really strange this lack of material about this new board...

Not so strange, really. Numa does some interesting things, but also have a screwup side, so their on-going lack of decent PR is just kind of consistent with who they are. ;-)
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#2906266 - 02/01/18 06:05 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
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Yes, let's hope there's something good on the way (both the keyboard itself and the video/audio demos). smile

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: To B3
That's a very, very bad video IMHO

Yup. But at least it's something.

Originally Posted By: To B3
much talkin, little wankin on the presets...

Plus the playing was done by someone who had never seen/used the board before. He could at least have asked for a few tips, like how to turn the split off, or how to do sound selection. He was only hitting tone category buttons, which meant that he was not recalling full patches (that's why there was no rotary automatically applied on the organ), plus we only heard the first tone under each category (which is why we got to hear the FM EP, but not the Rhodes or Wurli).

Originally Posted By: To B3
Really strange this lack of material about this new board...

Not so strange, really. Numa does some interesting things, but also have a screwup side, so their on-going lack of decent PR is just kind of consistent with who they are. ;-)
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#2906288 - 02/01/18 07:06 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
tfort Offline
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Registered: 05/06/16
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
[quote=To B3]Still no videos tho, official or non-official

Iím very interested in the C2x, so reached out to Studiologic and American Music and Sound after NAMM ended. I got the overall impression that it had just come out and no one had any information or knew anything yet.

Studiologic told me the C2x and C2 would both continue to be sold, but the C2x wouldnít be available for ďa few months.Ē Also confirmed that in addition to the sample player of the C2 with 1GB of sounds, The C2x had an organ engine from the Organ 2 and a simplified synth engine from the Sledge. (I got the impression Italian was his first language and he would have said the organ engine is ďderivedĒ from the Organ 2 if he was being more precise in his native tongue.)

SL said the MIDI section was the same generally in the C2x as the C2, but the faders are fully assignable if they are in a MIDI section. They also said theyíd try to get audio samples and more info on the web ďsoonĒ to show the sound differences between the C2x and C2.

AM&S didnít know anything except what was in the press release, but were very responsive, including calling Studiologic and calling me back. They were able to find out the C2/C2x gig bag would be available in April for $80.

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#2906298 - 02/01/18 07:39 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: tfort]
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Makes sense to keep both in production with a price difference... And again, the derived part (how derived) is crucial on the organ engine!

Originally Posted By: tfort
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
[quote=To B3]Still no videos tho, official or non-official

Iím very interested in the C2x, so reached out to Studiologic and American Music and Sound after NAMM ended. I got the overall impression that it had just come out and no one had any information or knew anything yet.

Studiologic told me the C2x and C2 would both continue to be sold, but the C2x wouldnít be available for ďa few months.Ē Also confirmed that in addition to the sample player of the C2 with 1GB of sounds, The C2x had an organ engine from the Organ 2 and a simplified synth engine from the Sledge. (I got the impression Italian was his first language and he would have said the organ engine is ďderivedĒ from the Organ 2 if he was being more precise in his native tongue.)

SL said the MIDI section was the same generally in the C2x as the C2, but the faders are fully assignable if they are in a MIDI section. They also said theyíd try to get audio samples and more info on the web ďsoonĒ to show the sound differences between the C2x and C2.

AM&S didnít know anything except what was in the press release, but were very responsive, including calling Studiologic and calling me back. They were able to find out the C2/C2x gig bag would be available in April for $80.
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#2906388 - 02/01/18 12:23 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Thanks for the info on the MP7SE, as I had ignored it, thinking it had inferior action. I have printed out the details of this model from the Kraft Music site, to compare vs. the MP11SE, to see what all is different besides the built-in speakers and included tri-pedals. There's a $1000 price difference (and big weight differential too).

UPDATE: I have compared the specs, and there are significant differences, particularly related to keybed action and the equivalent of escapement. It's curious that the MP7 has organ drawbar mode (like a Kurzweil almost) but the MP11 doesn't, but I don't need that. I'm just surprised the MP11 isn't a superset of the MP7 per se.

I will definitely be going for the MP11SE, as long as my eventual trip (hopefully next week) to DC Pianos doesn't convince me I should double the budget for a Digital Home Piano instead. But on paper at least, the SE upgrades to the MP11 seem to take it much closer to the CA98 than before.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (02/01/18 11:43 PM)
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#2906519 - 02/02/18 04:01 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Mark Schmieder]
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For those interested on the Numa Compact 2x, finally there's something up showing more of the tonewheel organ mode on Studiologic's FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/StudiologicMusic/videos/1748548878499338/

There's vocals over the keyboard comping most of the time and the sound is ambient, making it hard to hear the details (like the leslie sim), but at least it's something.
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#2906536 - 02/02/18 05:32 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
John Lee Offline
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Surely criminal charges must be brought for the way a great song was so brutally murdered in that video!
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#2906559 - 02/02/18 07:37 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: John Lee]
WesG Offline
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Did any of you guys see the BookerLAB booth with the Leslie motors? Any impressions you'd like to share with the vendor?
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#2906569 - 02/02/18 08:03 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: WesG]
Markyboard Offline
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OB Dave posted on it.

I'm curious whether he's doing separate slow/fast motors or if both speeds are integrated into one motor.

(Edit) Never mind - just visited their site.


Edited by Markyboard (02/02/18 08:09 AM)

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#2906571 - 02/02/18 08:08 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Markyboard]
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Would be a shame if that's the case. Would love to hear some more, closer and without so many interferences, especially on the leslie sim and overdrive.

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
OB Dave posted on it.

I'm curious whether he's doing separate slow/fast motors or if both speeds are integrated into one motor.
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#2906573 - 02/02/18 08:10 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
gd1 Offline
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Registered: 12/23/06
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Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: To B3
For those interested on the Numa Compact 2x, finally there's something up showing more of the tonewheel organ mode on Studiologic's FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/StudiologicMusic/videos/1748548878499338/

There's vocals over the keyboard comping most of the time and the sound is ambient, making it hard to hear the details (like the leslie sim), but at least it's something.


As you said, at last it's something. Will just have to wait until some reviews and videos are made after its release. I've been looking at a different option for our weekly jam sessions. So this plus an ipad/iphone could be a light weight feasible option. If the Leslie sim is poor will bring the Lester K along.

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#2906574 - 02/02/18 08:12 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: gd1]
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Wonder if it's possible to assign the line outs... organ on one, other sounds on the other...

Originally Posted By: gd1
Originally Posted By: To B3
For those interested on the Numa Compact 2x, finally there's something up showing more of the tonewheel organ mode on Studiologic's FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/StudiologicMusic/videos/1748548878499338/

There's vocals over the keyboard comping most of the time and the sound is ambient, making it hard to hear the details (like the leslie sim), but at least it's something.


As you said, at last it's something. Will just have to wait until some reviews and videos are made after its release. I've been looking at a different option for our weekly jam sessions. So this plus an ipad/iphone could be a light weight feasible option. If the Leslie sim is poor will bring the Lester K along.
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#2906586 - 02/02/18 08:34 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
WesG Offline
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Registered: 02/16/13
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I have a Booker Lab demo unit. They are using one motor top, one motor bottom. I think this product has a lot of promise. There are a finite number of fast motors in the world, eventually we will start having trouble sourcing replacements.


Edited by WesG (02/02/18 08:52 AM)
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#2906621 - 02/02/18 09:50 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: WesG]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: WesG
I have a Booker Lab demo unit. They are using one motor top, one motor bottom. I think this product has a lot of promise. There are a finite number of fast motors in the world, eventually we will start having trouble sourcing replacements.



Re-issued slow motors are available and I'm using a couple of them. I wonder why there are no re-issued fast motors? What does Hammond use for their newer Leslies? I assume they're not compatible with the older ones?


Edited by Markyboard (02/02/18 09:51 AM)

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#2906924 - 02/03/18 04:32 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12582
Originally Posted By: To B3
For those interested on the Numa Compact 2x, finally there's something up showing more of the tonewheel organ mode on Studiologic's FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/StudiologicMusic/videos/1748548878499338/

There's vocals over the keyboard comping most of the time and the sound is ambient, making it hard to hear the details (like the leslie sim), but at least it's something.

I didn't listen to it all, but yeah, about the best we can say is, it's something. ;-)

Originally Posted By: To B3
Would be a shame if that's the case. Would love to hear some more, closer and without so many interferences, especially on the leslie sim and overdrive.

Originally Posted By: Markyboard
OB Dave posted on it.

I'm curious whether he's doing separate slow/fast motors or if both speeds are integrated into one motor.

That was not about the Numa. But you're right, it would be nice to hear some leslie speed switching and overdrive...

Originally Posted By: To B3
Wonder if it's possible to assign the line outs... organ on one, other sounds on the other...

I'd be surprised, because the Numa Compact 2 doesn't support anything like that. But yeah, it would be nice. Also for assigning LH bass out one side, and everything else out the other.
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#2907072 - 02/04/18 08:12 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
Zadillo Offline
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Registered: 07/18/17
Posts: 6
Synth Anatomy just put up a 6 minute video of the Numa Compaxt 2x:

https://youtu.be/wN3GUhK6Cdw

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#2907128 - 02/04/18 11:41 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: AnotherScott]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
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Originally Posted By: To B3
Wonder if it's possible to assign the line outs... organ on one, other sounds on the other...

I'd be surprised, because the Numa Compact 2 doesn't support anything like that. But yeah, it would be nice. Also for assigning LH bass out one side, and everything else out the other. [/quote]

According to the literature that I picked up at the booth, the NUMA Compact2x will have stereo line outs plus a headphone jack (TRS) that can also be programmed as an AUX out.
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#2907143 - 02/04/18 11:59 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: The_Star_Guy]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
According to the literature that I picked up at the booth, the NUMA Compact2x will have stereo line outs plus a headphone jack (TRS) that can also be programmed as an AUX out.

Thatís a first! Very handy for those playing key bass.


Edited by Synthaholic (02/04/18 12:00 PM)
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#2907156 - 02/04/18 12:57 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
According to the literature that I picked up at the booth, the NUMA Compact2x will have stereo line outs plus a headphone jack (TRS) that can also be programmed as an AUX out.

Thatís a first! Very handy for those playing key bass.

Yes, that would be an outstanding feature! I've wished for that on other boards. My understanding is that the headphone jack has typically been physically tapped off the same point that feeds the main outs, so it would be impossible to send it a different signal, but an implementation that permits separate routing to that jack would be tremendously useful.
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#2907291 - 02/05/18 03:57 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Zadillo]
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Better than the previous one! But still would like to hear more leslie/overdrive...

Originally Posted By: Zadillo
Synth Anatomy just put up a 6 minute video of the Numa Compaxt 2x:

https://youtu.be/wN3GUhK6Cdw
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#2907312 - 02/05/18 06:18 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: Zadillo]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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Originally Posted By: Zadillo
Synth Anatomy just put up a 6 minute video of the Numa Compaxt 2x:

https://youtu.be/wN3GUhK6Cdw


Thanks for posting.

3:32 "The organ is based on ... a physical model". It's interesting - Chris M cut in with his response, I wonder if the question was going to be "The organ is based on the Numa Organ 2?" and Chris didn't want to have to answer "no".

The sound of the organ is reasonable, but there seems to be a lot of click in there. I hope that's adjustable.

No manual at the website yet. That headphone-as-aux feature could be very useful: @The_Star_Guy, would you be able to post a pic/scan of your "literature" from the Studiologic booth?

Cheers, Mike
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#2907439 - 02/05/18 01:28 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: stoken6]
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Wonder if it's possible to assign the same effect for both sides of a split, with different levels using the toggle buttons and the only knob... say, in a b3/wurly split, a heavier overdrive level for the organ and a lighter level for the EP... or is it limited in a way that an effect can only be selected for one side... speeaking of overdrive, would love to hear more of it...
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#2907597 - 02/06/18 10:00 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: To B3]
JKS111 Offline
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Registered: 02/05/18
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I was just doing that on the Compact 2 - given its many limitations, one thing the NC2 can definitely do is assign the same effect to different programs in a layer/split with different "levels". At least with the NC2, I'm not sure how useful assigning the same effect with different "levels" is since you have so little practical control over effects' parameters but I'm sure it has its applications.

I've been trying to shoehorn the NC2 into a performance setting for a while now with no luck but the NC2X "might" make it possible - I love the NC2 weight, 88b keys, AT and the piano and EP sounds are useable but the interface, organ and lack of effects control makes the unit less compelling. It's possible that the USB audio enhancement will make the NC2 useable if it allows me to streamline IOS device integration - we shall see...

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#2907776 - 02/07/18 04:14 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: JKS111]
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The effect limitations on splits and layers is one thing that bothers me on my VR09... Given that I use mostly organ, EPs, Clavs and some vintage moog style synths, being able to save sounds (even if I cant have much real time control) with effects on both sides is a big plus for me, and, with 88 keys, that's more real estate than the 61 I have now to make it work live... Hoping to hear better demos soon....

Originally Posted By: JKS111
I was just doing that on the Compact 2 - given its many limitations, one thing the NC2 can definitely do is assign the same effect to different programs in a layer/split with different "levels". At least with the NC2, I'm not sure how useful assigning the same effect with different "levels" is since you have so little practical control over effects' parameters but I'm sure it has its applications.

I've been trying to shoehorn the NC2 into a performance setting for a while now with no luck but the NC2X "might" make it possible - I love the NC2 weight, 88b keys, AT and the piano and EP sounds are useable but the interface, organ and lack of effects control makes the unit less compelling. It's possible that the USB audio enhancement will make the NC2 useable if it allows me to streamline IOS device integration - we shall see...
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#2907975 - 02/07/18 04:36 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: stoken6]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 242
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Originally Posted By: stoken6




The sound of the organ is reasonable, but there seems to be a lot of click in there. I hope that's adjustable.

No manual at the website yet. That headphone-as-aux feature could be very useful: @The_Star_Guy, would you be able to post a pic/scan of your "literature" from the Studiologic booth?

Cheers, Mike




Please check out the specifications page....it is essentially the same thing that I picked up at the show

klonk
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#2908014 - 02/07/18 09:40 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: WesG]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
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Originally Posted By: WesG
I have a Booker Lab demo unit. They are using one motor top, one motor bottom. I think this product has a lot of promise.

I think so too, and this is the correct approach. A huuuuuge advantage of using DC servo motors is that you potentially have much more control over motor speed, ramp times, and such. I also liked that he's using stock belts and pulleys, which minimizes the number of components that would need to be replaced in the course of doing the upgrade.

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#2908017 - 02/07/18 09:58 PM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: OB Dave]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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Did you guys get an estimated cost and time frame for release? It looks pretty cool, but also looks like it could be pretty pricey?

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#2910607 - 02/19/18 06:00 AM Re: Winter NAMM 2018 Reports [Re: hardware]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: hardware
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
In what way does the Lester's ramp seems off to you, how would you want to change it?

Lester K has a fixed down ramp.

Would the Lester G solve that?
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