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#2894446 - 12/07/17 05:51 AM Bose B2 sub a winner for organ.
I-missRichardTee Offline
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It is beside the main thrust of this, to go into why I tried a B2 Sub for the Bose L1 Model 2, last week. I used it in 3 different applications, yielding 3 different results.

First application I tried my new sub with left hand bass, piano and strings gig last Thursday.. and ( as I reported last week ) the results were underwhelming. Five or more years ago I had tried this same B2 sub, and returned it.
I had been hoping that this time, with more attentive parametric eq, I could take some of the lack of clarity in the bass, out of the B2.
I asked the drummer about it for the whole gig.. and he did not seem overly impressed with B2.

Second application
However Tuesday I tried B2 with a lower volume elec bass gig. And a musician said the bass had never been clearer!
I am subsequently bringing a strong bass amp to that gig, then the following week the Bose, in order to confirm if the Bose was truly that clear sounding for bass.

Fast forward to last night, Third application: I tried the B2 with Organ clone, and using left hand bass on a loud Blues application. I will be darned if that organ has never sounded better... maybe even the best yet with the Bose + B2 sub! Put a long denied smile on Tee's face. Again, this is Blues, fairly loud, and with left hand organ bass. I also used a K10 for the other side of the organ stereo Out. I cannot afford two Bose at this time!
And I wonder if two Bose with two b2 subs would be overkill for bass or if phase cancellation would be a factor. But even a single Bose made me quite happy.

Even during that first set last night with the B2 + Bose.. I had quickly made up my mind, I am definitely keeping the new 40+ lbs sub, if only for the organ. I sounded THAT Good.

I am being strongly reminded ( I have known this before, but sometimes what we know, becomes obscured ) that one device for sound reproduction may just be ok in one case, be dismal in another, yet be great in another.
Therefore mere specs are far away from the whole truth about amplification.
This is not revelatory info, yes I know; but I think the category for amplification ought to be clearly subdivided into amps for ac piano, ep, bass, organ, voice, etc.
They are all different. I know you dudes know this.. but this point seems to me, to get minimized. I mean I hear about it here at the forum, kind of, but this past week more strongly reminds me of this truth.
The SpaceStation with Ac piano, comes to mind. But beyond Space Station, there are little important details that need to be brought out.. And Bose has taken a bad rap, and I am here to set the Bose situation straight - rarely do amps put a smile on this curmudgeons face.

The screaming solo part of Blues Rock organ is well served with the tall array of 24 speakers high towards the ceiling.
And shockingly, the more difficult to manage chords and bass are very well served by this B2 cabinet. I was skeptical when I hooked the B2 Bose up last night with organ... fairly sure I would be returning it to Guitar Center! But Surprise Surprise... I am now a confirmed lover of Bose L1 Model 2 / B2 for Blues Rock organ with LH bass. The chords with left hand bass, have about driven me crazy.. the tone is hard to smooth out.. and I am almost in shock that of all things, a pristine yet imperfect Bose
with a fat sub, cured my left hand and comping on organ issues that have plagued me for years.



Edited by I-missRichardTee (12/07/17 06:18 AM)
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#2894450 - 12/07/17 06:16 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
ABECK Offline
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I borrowed an L1S and B2 combo and was very happy with the results. I own an L1 Compact, which I love (especially as a personal monitor), but the above combo was obviously way better.

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#2894451 - 12/07/17 06:21 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: ABECK]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Thank you Sir, for that confirmation. I knew almost instantly that those impossible chords with left hand bass were Finally reminiscent of the Leslie magic thing.
Bose for other applications, less so, but Bose is great for voice too... for screaming solos on organ too. That is nothing to sneeze at.
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#2894457 - 12/07/17 07:07 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
J. Dan Offline
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if you need different amplification for different instruments, then that's pretty much a confirmation that each of them is flawed. A good system would perform well across the board.
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#2894479 - 12/07/17 08:19 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: J. Dan]
stoken6 Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
if you need different amplification for different instruments, then that's pretty much a confirmation that each of them is flawed. A good system would perform well across the board.


No snark intended, but I think I disagree with that statement: A Leslie 145 is technically a flawed amplifier, as is a Marshall stack or an Ampeg fliptop. They all have flaws in their frequency response, and yet they sound great with B3, Les Paul and Precision respectively. None would sound great amplifying an acoustic piano.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2894483 - 12/07/17 08:43 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: stoken6]
BbAltered Online   content
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I wish there was a way for me to easily try this out.

I have always wondered what digital APs sound like played thru a Bose L-series system. I tried once to do this a a GC, but they hooked up (in mono)a cheap toy-grade digital keyboard to an L1, and with the general loud ambience of GC, I couldn't hear well enough to determine one way or another.

My impression is the OP did not find using his Bose L1 was a good fit for his piano gig.
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#2894493 - 12/07/17 09:01 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: stoken6]
J. Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: stoken6
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
if you need different amplification for different instruments, then that's pretty much a confirmation that each of them is flawed. A good system would perform well across the board.


No snark intended, but I think I disagree with that statement: A Leslie 145 is technically a flawed amplifier, as is a Marshall stack or an Ampeg fliptop. They all have flaws in their frequency response, and yet they sound great with B3, Les Paul and Precision respectively. None would sound great amplifying an acoustic piano.

Cheers, Mike.


I knew somebody would bring that up. Yes, there are instrument specific amps, but that's different than sound reinforcement. You wouldn't run a band mix through a guitar amp or a leslie. Yet I think most people would agree that a whole band can sound good through a good PA. Same goes for monitoring.
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#2894512 - 12/07/17 09:41 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: J. Dan]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
if you need different amplification for different instruments, then that's pretty much a confirmation that each of them is flawed. A good system would perform well across the board.


With all due respect... I think this topic is far from closed?

I am not going to discuss this through eyes of science, but as a musician.. are you game?

Long ago I used argue with a now departed friend who seemed to over simplify the case for amplification to sum up... clean digital power is best. Tube power is not clean... end of discussion.
I always took the opposite position. Fast forward 40 years.. and I say that if you are reproducing a sound that is associated with pristineness... like Vienna String Library, then yes, the cleaner the better.
But that is not always the case.
What about guitars, EP's which are associated with Fender amps,
Organs which are associated with tube Leslies, even guitar emulations, or Moogs... do we necessarily wish to avoid what tubes bring to the table?

The Bose was surprisingly excellent for the Organ. Organ is not associated with clean pristine as a rule, but somehow, that larger sub just clicked with my Korg CX3.
I am not going to argue with what smacked me upside the head last night, making me actually smile while on stage!

Would an approximately pure, perfect system be even better for the Organ? I am not so sure... time will perhaps tell.
I know leslies that are older school tend to be favored over newer Leslies
Ditto for Guitar amps.
And I believe Rhodes fare well with Fender type amps; perhaps because that was the way we first heard them ( Fender Rhodes )?

What do you think J Dan?
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#2894515 - 12/07/17 09:47 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: BbAltered]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: BbAltered
I wish there was a way for me to easily try this out.

I have always wondered what digital APs sound like played thru a Bose L-series system. I tried once to do this a a GC, but they hooked up (in mono)a cheap toy-grade digital keyboard to an L1, and with the general loud ambience of GC, I couldn't hear well enough to determine one way or another.

My impression is the OP did not find using his Bose L1 was a good fit for his piano gig.


Hold your horses Partner! I am playing that same gig again tonight.
But the big problem was NOT the piano, it was rhe bass... basically ( pun ? ) not clear enough.
This stuff is just too confusing to use intellect much at all.
I think trial and error AND sharing here is the way to find our holy grails and I meant plural.. because I also doubt one amp system can do AP EP B3 Elec bass strings voice equally well.. Not in my experience with imperfect mid price amps.
But even Meyer amps, I still would have to hear it to believe it.
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#2894516 - 12/07/17 09:52 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
J. Dan Offline
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The difference is whether or not the amp/speaker is intended to be part of the sound. Hammond sound better through a leslie, but if a digital leslie simulation is built in, then a good quality speaker should be best. My guitar may sound great through a Marshall tube amp, but if I'm running it through a Line6 amp model, I'm not going to then send that signal into a marshall amp.

So yes your CX3 probably sounded decent. But it would have also sounded good through the same amplification that would make your piano sound good, while the opposite is not true.
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#2894521 - 12/07/17 09:59 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: J. Dan]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
The difference is whether or not the amp/speaker is intended to be part of the sound. Hammond sound better through a leslie, but if a digital leslie simulation is built in, then a good quality speaker should be best. My guitar may sound great through a Marshall tube amp, but if I'm running it through a Line6 amp model, I'm not going to then send that signal into a marshall amp.


So yes your CX3 probably sounded decent. But it would have also sounded good through the same amplification that would make your piano sound good, while the opposite is not true.


And what might that clean pure system be... Meyer? Can you loan me some bread so I can confirm your position idea grin facepalm

But seriously folks.. That B2 sub gave me a sound I have never heard before. I have used the usual suspects ( excluding Kevin Spacey ) Eon 15, EV 15, K10's and Bose with the original sub

NONE of these gave me that sense I was almost next to a wooden Leslie cab with the lowest and mid tones aka the bass and comping chords.
I am tickled pink, as we used to say... it means very pleased.

As far as new Bose sub with tyros left hand bass.. that is a new nut to crack. I may try my Bose with B2 with the Roland G6 tonight because those are superior basses.
Any eq suggestions are welcome... the bose sub seemed to lack clarity

Which is quite the opposite when I used it with a low volume elec bass gig!!
This stuff is a challenge I must say.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (12/07/17 10:06 AM)
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#2894524 - 12/07/17 10:06 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
J. Dan Offline
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We already covered this in your other thread and I made a recommendation there.
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#2894527 - 12/07/17 10:09 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: J. Dan]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We already covered this in your other thread and I made a recommendation there.


it went over my head. Do you know where your suggestion might be located? The name of the thread?
I cannot recall things as well as I used to.
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#2894536 - 12/07/17 10:24 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
cphollis Offline
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I played a L1 Model II w/Bose sub for a while. Nice on just about everything I ran through it: APs, B3, etc. Only problem was that it would crumble when the volume got loud. And mono. And a bunch of pieces that had to be assembled. But a nice all-arounder if it fits your situation.
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#2894538 - 12/07/17 10:32 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: cphollis]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
I played a L1 Model II w/Bose sub for a while. Nice on just about everything I ran through it: APs, B3, etc. Only problem was that it would crumble when the volume got loud. And mono. And a bunch of pieces that had to be assembled. But a nice all-arounder if it fits your situation.


I have used that Bose for past 5 years.. but did you use the 40+ lb B2 sub or the much smaller B1 sub?
I agree about the volume limitation being a fact . But the Larger made the volume issue, disappear.
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#2894540 - 12/07/17 10:36 AM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
J. Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We already covered this in your other thread and I made a recommendation there.


it went over my head. Do you know where your suggestion might be located? The name of the thread?
I cannot recall things as well as I used to.


clonk
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894603 - 12/07/17 03:32 PM Re: Bose B2 sub a winner for organ. [Re: I-missRichardTee]
cphollis Offline
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Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: cphollis
I played a L1 Model II w/Bose sub for a while. Nice on just about everything I ran through it: APs, B3, etc. Only problem was that it would crumble when the volume got loud. And mono. And a bunch of pieces that had to be assembled. But a nice all-arounder if it fits your situation.


I have used that Bose for past 5 years.. but did you use the 40+ lb B2 sub or the much smaller B1 sub?
I agree about the volume limitation being a fact . But the Larger made the volume issue, disappear.


I had a pair of the B1 modules, so plenty of oomph. It wasn't just the bass that couldn't keep up, it was *everything* couldn't keep up when the volume started to get louder. Nothing like a Marshall stack to crush your little amp.

Which tends to happen in the undisciplined bands I frequently play in.

I thought briefly about a pair of them, but now we're talking a very expensive and complex-to-assemble rig. But I've seen it done.

A pair of higher-end self-powered PAs gave me much better results, cost less money and was much simpler.

At quieter volumes, really appreciated the way it could fill a room with a delicate sound. If I was still doing coffeehouse stuff, I'd still have mine.
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