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#2894243 - 12/06/17 08:02 AM OT: recording video with iphone
cedar Offline
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I have a cocktail hour type gig tomorrow (piano trio) and would like to videotape it with my iphone. I've never tried to videotape anything on my iphone without holding it my hand (or for any duration more than a few minutes) so have some very simple questions.

First, do I need to do anything other than press "record" to make sure that it keeps taking the video, and does not automatically go into a sleep mode? Or will I have to check the phone occasionally and re-start the taping?

Second, this event may or may not be well lit. Is there anything I do to ensure that the musicians are not unduly dark?

Lastly, any suggestions for best ways to position the iphone? I want to be sure that all 3 musicians are visible, but otherwise don't really care. I was thinking of just propping up the iphone on a cheap music stand. Maybe I should instead attach it or clip it to a mic stand?

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#2894250 - 12/06/17 08:29 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
OB Dave Offline
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If you have flashing stage lights the iPhone will have trouble trying to stay in focus. We've tried live-streaming shows and it doesn't work that well with the iPhone camera. It kept wanting to hunt around for focus, making the video very distracting to watch.

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#2894251 - 12/06/17 08:30 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: cedar
Is there anything I do to ensure that the musicians are not unduly dark?


Bring your own lighting.
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#2894253 - 12/06/17 08:33 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: OB Dave]
J. Dan Offline
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When you're on the video screen, before you start recording, if you touch the screen someplace, it will adjust the brightness settings to that spot - so touch a bright spot and the video will get darker. If it's too dark, touch a dark spot and it will get brighter.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894256 - 12/06/17 08:54 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
Mike Martin Offline
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You may wish to get an app like MoviePro or others that allow you to manually control exposure, focus and audio levels. Consider putting the phone is Airplane mode so text message and other notifications don't interrupt your recording.

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#2894258 - 12/06/17 09:03 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: Mike Martin]
Bobadohshe Offline
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You're going to run out of room pretty quickly.
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#2894259 - 12/06/17 09:06 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: Bobadohshe]
cedar Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
You're going to run out of room pretty quickly.


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I have the large capacity iphone. 256 gb. But 187.4 gb are used. I wonder how long I would have before bumping up against the space limitations? If I knew in advance, I might choose to record just a selection of tunes.

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#2894260 - 12/06/17 09:10 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
J. Dan Offline
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Depends on your video settings:

720p HD @ 30 frames/sec 3.5 GB per Hour
1080p HD @ 30 frames/sec 7.6 GB per Hour
1080p HD @ 60 frames/sec 11.7 GB per Hour
4K HD 21.9 GB per Hour
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Dan

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#2894261 - 12/06/17 09:16 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
cedar Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Depends on your video settings:

720p HD @ 30 frames/sec 3.5 GB per Hour
1080p HD @ 30 frames/sec 7.6 GB per Hour
1080p HD @ 60 frames/sec 11.7 GB per Hour
4K HD 21.9 GB per Hour


Is there a significant difference in the quality of these settings?

I suppose I should have mentioned that I have two purposes here. First, I simply want the video for my own review (both for listening to the music and making observations about how we look).

Second, I think it's at least theoretically possible that the video (or portions thereof) might prove good enough to stand as a brief demo for these types of gigs (i.e., low-profile private cocktail gigs, not clubs or venues where the music is the draw) Maybe that's unrealistic but I figure it doesn't cost as anything to try.

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#2894265 - 12/06/17 09:42 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
J. Dan Offline
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Well most TV's are 1080p unless you've stepped up to the very latest 4k technology. So I think it would be safe to assume most people would not be viewing at higher than 1080p currently.

As for frame rate, keep in mind that Hollywood films are shot at 24fps. Usually the only time people notice a difference going up to 60 fps is if there is a lot of fast motion - like action/adventure, car chase, and sporting events. Since the camera would be in a fixed location I would think that 30fps should be just fine.

So there you have my recommendation - 1080p 30fps.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894462 - 12/07/17 07:24 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
tfort Offline
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Originally Posted By: cedar
Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe
You're going to run out of room pretty quickly.


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. I have the large capacity iphone. 256 gb. But 187.4 gb are used. I wonder how long I would have before bumping up against the space limitations? If I knew in advance, I might choose to record just a selection of tunes.


Are you using an iPhone 7 or later with iOS 11? If so, make sure you have the Camera set to record with "High Efficiency." It may be the default when you upgrade. High Efficiency uses the HEVC/H.265 codec, which is slightly better than H.264 quality with lower bit rates:

https://www.macworld.com/article/3226490...to-formats.html

If you have to share to other users, your phone will export H.264 for compatibility.

iPhone 7's and later also have much better low-light performance than older phones.

I concur with Dan's recommendation of 1080p/30 as a baseline if you'll be watching on TV's.

I've been looking into some of this recently, and have purchased:
1. a Studio Neat Glif https://www.studioneat.com/products/glif
2. a mic stand adapter in case I'd rather use a mic stand than a tripod to hold the Glif (also good for handholding)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032D0P84/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01
3. a Shure MV88, which I used for the first time last night http://www.shure.com/americas/motiv/mv88

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#2894466 - 12/07/17 07:32 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: tfort]
Theo Verelst Offline
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It's a complicated subject to know exactly what you're doing, and it has to be tried out in practice if you go for challenging settings. 1080 is enough for most normal purposes and has been practice tested on many devices. It's also about if you're going to post--process your video, and want to be certain your recording won't hesitate at flash writing hick-ups or phone multi tasking issues. Sometimes, if you want to straight push the result up to YT, a lowly setting saves upload time and might look better for average viewers (it's not easy to "work with" the in-built YT processing to get the result you want). It's preferred to record from a stand (tripod or improvised setup), of course.

There are apps for Android (I never had an Iphone) that allow you to set all the parameters yourself. Like you could do 24 frames per second for film feel, artificially put in a lot more bps to help post processing accuracy, and especially you could set the sound encoding bandwidth to high, adjust the cam mic to allow for high volume, etc.

T.

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#2894467 - 12/07/17 07:37 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: Theo Verelst]
J. Dan Offline
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If you can get around the issues with lighting, really the biggest issue I run into is sound. iPhones rarely pick up good sound in a room full of people and loud music through a PA. I would try to set up a separate device to capture decent audio -whether a board mix or just a better ambient recorder. You may not need it, but at least you have it so that if the whole 3 hours or whatever you get ends up having unusable audio, you can replace it.
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#2894468 - 12/07/17 07:44 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
cedar Offline
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
If you can get around the issues with lighting, really the biggest issue I run into is sound. iPhones rarely pick up good sound in a room full of people and loud music through a PA. I would try to set up a separate device to capture decent audio -whether a board mix or just a better ambient recorder. You may not need it, but at least you have it so that if the whole 3 hours or whatever you get ends up having unusable audio, you can replace it.


I was planning to do a separate recording with a ZOOM H2.

And that reminds me of an altogether different question: is there a simple way of linking the audio from the Zoom to the video from the iphone? And perhaps this is actually two sub-questions:

Can the ZOOM's audio be captured and linked with the iphone's video simultaneously?

or

Is the simpler approach simply to record the video and audio separately and later sync them together somehow?

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#2894470 - 12/07/17 07:52 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
The Real MC Offline
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A few years ago I was playing a theater presentation of Pink Floyd "The Wall". The house band was set up at the back of the stage, and the "wall" was in front of us. The house band was playing a pretty cool reproduction of the album and I wanted to record it for prosperity. I set up my digital camera and my iPhone 6.

We were playing 45 minute sets nonstop. The digital camera ran out of battery juice (its resolution was too low anyway). The iPhone made it through but I had to recharge it between sets. Used a camera stand for both. If you're recording an hour or more you should keep the iPhone tethered to a charger. I wasn't expecting high quality audio but the results weren't terrible. I never ran out of memory on the iPhone. You can see the results here.

Just remember that the camera on the front of the iPhone is higher resolution than the one used for selfies.

I have a mobile device accessory that is a camera stand for the iPhone and uses a suction cup to hold it steady. If you look around at retail stores that sell consumer electronics you can find them. That stand accessory has been real handy.

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#2894473 - 12/07/17 07:54 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
J. Dan Offline
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Best bet is to just do it in editing. Most video editors will have separate video and audio tracks. Trick is that you have to manually line up the audio with the video, but once you get it right it's good to go.

Here is the MOST important thing to consider if you'll be doing that: Unless you have more expensive software like Final Cut, you will want to make sure BOTH devices are recording in EXACTLY the same format....i.e. resolution, framerate, and audio bit depth and sample rate. If one is recording 44.1kHz and the other is 48kHz you may run into issues. Video is even worse. I've had to run multiple videos through converters to get them the same before putting them in a common editing package and the quality ends up shit after all that processing. Plus it takes forever. Just make sure both devices are set the same beforehand and save yourself a headache.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894475 - 12/07/17 07:58 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: cedar]
The Real MC Offline
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If you want stellar audio quality, then record to separate digital audio recorder. There is no known app or adapter to record stereo audio direct to the iPhone while recording video. Do post processing then combine the finished audio with the iPhone video (you have to manually sync finished audio to video audio but it's not hard). It's not a one step process but I have successfully done it on my Mac.

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#2894478 - 12/07/17 08:10 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: The Real MC]
J. Dan Offline
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This is maybe more involved than you wanted, but in the past, for me the best results have been doing a multitrack live recording of the audio, mixing it down to stereo, then putting the video clips to it or sending the mixed down audio to the people who shot and are editing the video. Last time I did it I used my Presonus digital mixer's firewire output to a MacBook. Other times we used an Alesis HD recorder.
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Dan

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#2894481 - 12/07/17 08:33 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
J. Dan Offline
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A couple examples....

This was actually a fairly expensive shoot with multiple high quality cameras and coordinated with a lighting guy to make sure it came out the way the videographer wanted, but we recorded live on an Alesis HD24, mixed down the audio, and sent to the video guy:



Here's an example of how NOT to do it! A friend said he'd come out with a couple other guys and shoot video. The audio is just a straight board mix into an Edirol audio recorder. None of the cameras were same resolution and some were 6:4 aspect ratio while others were 16:9 and they were different formats. I had to comb through all the video do conversions and my software didn't work with different aspect ratios so some shots are squished or stretched, the quality sucks, the lighting was horrible, etc. It actually took a lot of time to eventually end up with this piece of garbage:


I cannot find the video I referenced where we recorded on my Presonus and send to videographers - I don't think it ever made it to YouTube and I haven't been in this band for quite some time now, but just searching I found these and can speak to them.....

This one was a multitrack audio recording and I just did basically a slideshow to go with it just to get something together:


Same band, I remember this gig but actually didn't recall having video of it. In this case, it's very clearly camera audio. You can tell because it's heavily compressed and not getting the full mix based on where it's located. It's picking up the monitors close to its proximity and getting one of the guitars and one of the vocals more than anything else, and compressing with the drums. This is why you don't want camera audio:

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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894482 - 12/07/17 08:43 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
J. Dan Offline
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2 more from the band that had the bad video...

First one that was a board mix and a tripod mounted camera. This is why a board mix can be bad. Obviously one of the guitars is too loud in the mix....nothing you can do about it after the fact. You can hear for a bit the guitar drops out and the rest of the mix sound pretty decent, then it comes back in and overpowers everything. If you record multitrack, you can fix that after the fact:



Same band - at this gig the sound guy recorded us multitrack. I don't know what he used, he sent us the wav files after the fact and I mixed it down to go with the video that was shot from a camera set up at the mixing booth.



Edited by J. Dan (12/07/17 08:43 AM)
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894497 - 12/07/17 09:20 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
A couple examples....


excellent info and examples, Dan. thu
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#2894504 - 12/07/17 09:29 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: The Real MC]
tfort Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
If you want stellar audio quality, then record to separate digital audio recorder. There is no known app or adapter to record stereo audio direct to the iPhone while recording video. ...


With a stereo add-on mic such as the Shure MV88 or Zoom iQ7, an iPhone will record stereo using the external mic rather than it's built-in mic when recording a video. They both can also record raw mid/side if you want to use Logic or some other DAW later to adjust the stereo width, or use the mono mic signal alone.

The MV88's process isn't seamless, you have to set up the mic in the Shure Motiv app and check your levels, then switch to the camera for recording video.

To sync up your audio in post from an H2, make sure you've got some claps or other sounds recorded at the start of the video and audio to make it easier to line up the two later.

On the iPhone, definitely use the rear camera(s), even if you're putting it on a music stand and can't see the screen. You'll have to record and check some test video to fine tune your composition. I'd put your screen brightness very low to save battery and not annoy the audience, plus put the phone in airplane mode with Do Not Disturb turned on. Remember also that any digital zooming on the phone will lessen video quality, while using the second "telephoto" lens on one of the newer phones won't, as long as you don't zoom in with it.

If it's close enough that you aren't zooming and bright enough to not lose focus, your iPhone might surprise you if you keep your expectations low.

Since you don't have an external mic to use tonight, one thing you might try is importing the video into iMovie. Once there, you can boost the audio level. There's a couple ways of doing it, depending if you want to boost the whole video's audio level or just parts of a clip. That's what I did before getting the MV88.

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#2894509 - 12/07/17 09:37 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: tfort]
J. Dan Offline
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One additional note on lighting....what looks good live may not look good on video.

In the first clip I posted, the videographer was really worried about having all of the lighting and we even had to talk him into doing a live shoot in the first place - he wanted to do a controlled sound stage with no people. We got him and the light guy together ahead of time to talk. Basically what you see is a brighter than normal mostly white wash coming from the front and all of the effects lighting behind us. This is so that there aren't any weird color tones on our faces or strange contrast issues coming up in the video. If you were there live in the audience, it would have looked like the house lights were on or something because the whole stage stayed pretty well lit up the whole time.

The second video is just the regular house lights without anybody really controlling them. Sure enough, weird color tones on the faces and not very good contrast and resolution. Probably looked great live, but not on video.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894567 - 12/07/17 11:59 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: tfort]
The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: tfort
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
If you want stellar audio quality, then record to separate digital audio recorder. There is no known app or adapter to record stereo audio direct to the iPhone while recording video. ...


With a stereo add-on mic such as the Shure MV88 or Zoom iQ7, an iPhone will record stereo using the external mic rather than it's built-in mic when recording a video.


I don't want stereo mics, I want direct stereo audio.

Quote:
make sure you've got some claps or other sounds recorded at the start of the video and audio to make it easier to line up the two later.


That is crucial to syncing audio and video. Anything percussive - no effect processing - works quite well.

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#2894646 - 12/07/17 07:42 PM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: The Real MC]
Al Quinn Offline
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I'm recording gigs with my iPhone and Shure MV88 clip on mic; I place the iPhone/MV88 on my keyboard. The audio quality is excellent and the mid-side recording technique provides great stereo separation. By placing it on my keyboard I'm pretty much capturing what I hear while I'm playing and the instruments are almost close mic'ed (which I like) -- I guess this would more correctly be called near-mic'ed if there's such a term.

The following video was made with a Zoom Q3HD video recorder (720p 60fps). The Q3HD audio sounded OK but picked up quite a bit of room ambiance which I didn't like. So, I opened the video along with it's audio in Logic and also imported the audio from the iPhone/MV88 recording onto another track. I could then see the audio from the Q3HD and the audio from the MV88 on separate tracks, and moved the MV88 audio waveform so that it visually matched the Q3HD waveforms. I listened and made a couple of finer nudge adjustments of the MV88 audio to Q3HD audio and was done. Doing this was much easier than I expected. The last step was to replace the Q3HD video audio with the MV88 audio. Logic provides the capability to do this.



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#2894824 - 12/09/17 09:58 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
harmonizer Offline
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I have made some videos of our covers band using iphones and/or iPads, and then mixing in the audio from my multitrack recorder.

Re audio: a mix straight from the board often has too little bass and guitar, if the sound man is letting the direct sound from the bass and guitar amps create part of the volume the audience is hearing. And if you have one instrument too loud (as in "The Kid" posted by J Dan above) there is nothing you can do to fix it. The live mix at a show is seldom perfect, so it will be best if you can capture the audio of your band in a multitrack recorder, and tweak the mix. The audio mixing can take a lot of time!

Re video: iphones can capture surprising good video if the lighting is decent, and it really helps to have a second camera, and to use some video editing software to change the views at appropriate times. Every time you change a camera view, either by switching to another camera or to a zoomed in view, the person watching your video will get less bored.

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#2894825 - 12/09/17 09:59 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: harmonizer]
harmonizer Offline
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Here is one of the first videos I made using Corel Videostudio to mix the video from multiple cameras, and mix in the audio mix created from my multitrack recorder. I include it here not because it's perfect, but because it allows me to discuss certain points for others who may have never done this.



An iPhone 5 was mounted on a tripod below one of the FOH speakers. An old crappy camcorder was mounted on a tripod out in the audience. The camcorder's video was awful, but it was all I had to give a wide shot, and using some of its footage for a change of pace, and to let the viewer see the whole band. You can see I switched from wider shots from the iPhone to zoomed in shots from that same iPhone. There is a boredom factor with an unchanged angle once you get past 30 seconds or so. My point here is that even basic methods like I used here can make the video more interesting to watch.

I allowed the video to get into a letterboxed mode for certain shots. This was an accident of inexperience with my video editing software.

You can also see the audio is slightly out of sync with the video. I was using the feature in Videostudio 9 which will sync the audio imported from another source with your video (it syncs it with the sound track that your video camera recorded). This does not work perfectly, and for my more recent videos I have switched to doing a manual sync by looking at what frame in the video a hit of a drum or cymbal takes place, and then doing manual chops on my audio track (down to thousands of a second) with trial and error.

This video was not from a bar or restaurant. It is a real challenge dealing with the darker lighting in a bar (you can see this in some of my more recent videos), and in many cases the bar might not want the lighting to be brighter.

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#2894845 - 12/09/17 11:52 AM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: harmonizer]
J. Dan Offline
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Yep, you ran into exactly the same issue I did. Since the video camera was 6:4 aspect ratio, it did letterbox on the 16:9 except in my case it squished the 16:9. Some newer software and especially the more expensive software lets you pick how you want to deal with it, but the cheaper stuff either squishes, stretches, or does letterbox. Best thing is to try to make sure all cameras are set the same beforehand.

Were you doing a digital zoom in editing on the iPhone?
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894875 - 12/09/17 02:59 PM Re: OT: recording video with iphone [Re: J. Dan]
harmonizer Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
.....Were you doing a digital zoom in editing on the iPhone?


I think I made I mistake in how I did my crop in Videostudio. For this video, I used the Videostudio multicamera editor function, and made 4 cropped/panned videos (3 from the iphone) as input into the multicamera editor. I think for one of them I chose the wrong cropping option in Videostudio. I have not had the problem recently, so I think it was just a rookie mistake.

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