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#2894123 - 12/05/17 02:09 PM Reharmonization - passing chords
Mister Funk Offline
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Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 12
Loc: Italy
HI everybody. I'm an intermediate keyboard player: i play funk, soul and I like to have a more jazzy approach in some tunes. I'd like to improve my skills in harmony and specially in reharmonization. Do you have some book or some on line course to start? I've bought "Rehamornization" (Randy Felts), but I m searching for something else. Do I have to study gospel to improve these skills ? What about the books of gregory moody ?
Thanks!
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#2894130 - 12/05/17 02:20 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Mister Funk]
timwat Offline
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Can you elaborate on what isn't working for you with the Randy Felts book? Describe more about the "something else" you're searching for and you may get more satisfying responses from the crew here.
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#2894147 - 12/05/17 03:15 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: timwat]
BbAltered Online   content
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Hello. You do not have to study gospel music to improve your harmony and reharmonization skills. But if you do study gospel, you will find a rich hunting ground for new tunes, new skills, cool ideas, and exactly the kind of sounds that work great in funk and soul, and all sorts of modern popular music.

In my opinion, studying gospel is a wonderful use of your practice time.
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#2894157 - 12/05/17 03:45 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: BbAltered]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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I studied classical approach... but as an individualist kind of character.. I will approach this in my own way.
First off, be patient! Check out various books for sure.

Now from my end of this topic of passing chords ( reharm is much more involved, and I cannot deal with it here.. there are books that address this )
A chord is associated with a scale.

using simplest idea of that

a C triad is associated with a C scale ( also other scales, but that is later on )
so other neighboring chords that are closely associated with C scale can be experimented with.

Such as A Dm is a neighbor of C triad
and vice versa

How about C7? Is Dm related? Sure?
How about C7 and Dmaj 7? related? Yes Sir.

I would say see chords as associated with key centers and scales
think in terms of families and family ties between chords

Back to patience... I studied classical approach mainly.. it took time. I hope my few tidbits helped.

if highly motivated, a teacher is recommended.
But you can start connect chords right now!
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#2894193 - 12/05/17 08:17 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Al Quinn Offline
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Checkout Jeb Patton's book: An Approach to Comping. Jeb provides very good explanations and examples of passing chords.
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#2894209 - 12/05/17 11:24 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Al Quinn]
Jazz+ Offline
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The A section of Milestones (new) , those few bars say it all, well most of it, highly recommended.
Diatonic neighbors....no mystery.

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#2894317 - 12/06/17 01:16 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Jazz+]
ProfD Offline
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If Mister Funk is looking for the jazzy, funk and soul sound I'm thinking, his best resources are Youtube videos. Plenty musicians from around the world are uploading tips and tricks. cool
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#2894322 - 12/06/17 01:32 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: ProfD]
Mister Funk Offline
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Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 12
Loc: Italy
Thank you very much ProfD. Could you suggest 2 or 3 video where to start? Thanks in advance!
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#2894324 - 12/06/17 01:33 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: BbAltered]
Mister Funk Offline
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Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 12
Loc: Italy
Thanks Baltered. I live in Italy and nobody plays gospel. Which book or course do you suggest? Thnaks!
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#2894345 - 12/06/17 03:19 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Mister Funk]
ProfD Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mister Funk
Thank you very much ProfD. Could you suggest 2 or 3 video where to start? Thanks in advance!
No videos in particular. But, along the lines of Baltered's recommendations, start with a search on Gospel chords. cool
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#2894360 - 12/06/17 04:59 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: ProfD]
marino Offline
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There's a book by Andy Laverne about reharmonization which has a few useful ideas.

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#2894365 - 12/06/17 06:03 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: marino]
Jazz+ Offline
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Whatever you do Do not analyze , sumarize, apply and extrapolate the “milestones” comp. even though it is the whole thing , certainly covers funk.
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#2894412 - 12/06/17 11:34 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Jazz+]
MathOfInsects Offline
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Is this thread really about passing chords, or are you asking, "what can I play instead of the stuff I've been playing" (i.e., reharm)? There are two different answers, depending on which it is.

Passing chords...just play around with these. They are connective tissue between the chord you're on and the one you're heading to. Sometimes the connection is obvious--say, the half-step between a whole-step change. Sometimes they are stops along the way--say, a B(/C) leading up to a C. This may be blasphemy, but the fact is that placed correctly in time, almost any chord along the way can work, so long as you're not pushing a song "out" when "in" is called for. The phrase "play around" truly applies here--play "around" the tonic, delaying your arrival by greater and greater degrees as you go.

You can also play with major and minor in your passing chords. A nice "minor instead of major" approach is coming down to the I from a flat-3 minor--so, to C from an Eb-minor. This only works as an approach, and only when a gospel tinge is appropriate. But where everyone does the Eb-major approach, try the minor and your ears will be happy.

Reharm...this is a whole different story. You can spend a whole career and never "arrive" here. As a general tip, think in degrees away from the original chord, keeping the melody note holy. If the chord is C and melody note is C, think of chords in which C is "primary" in--Ab, F, Am--then those it's "possible" in--Dmin7, DbMaj7, Bb9--then those it can be "written into"--F# lydian, E7Alt, B(b9), A(#9)--and so on.

Remember that you can completely sabotage the tune by going to these reharmed chords without the cooperation of the bass player and/or the guitar player (more important, since these will generally work over whatever the bass is playing as a tonic), so choose your moments. The place to really bring these out is during your solos.

There is much more to say about this, but it would definitely help to clarify if you are looking for passing chords or general reharm advice.
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#2894424 - 12/07/17 03:07 AM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: MathOfInsects]
Dockeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
If the chord is C and melody note is C, think of chords in which C is "primary" in--Ab, F, Am--then those it's "possible" in--Dmin7, DbMaj7, Bb9--then those it can be "written into"--F# lydian, E7Alt, B(b9), A(#9)--and so on.


^^^^^^
This

I think on this method as “third related” chords/key centres. If C is the tonic of the chord it tends to be more stable, if it’s the 3rd degree of a chord (Aflat) it comes across as more striking, major 7th degree (DbMj7) and it’s more distant again but still related.

A quick way I use to reinterpret some chords is to shift up/down a major/minor third from the chord I’m playing. So if I play a Cmajor chord I can transition to A-flat major, Amajor or up to Ebmajor/Emajor. I came across this sound from Schubert of all people who used to employ third related key centres for the bridge of some of his piano and vocal pieces.

Anyway what MOI says is good advice.....& more succient than what I’m attempting to say!
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#2894594 - 12/07/17 02:44 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: MathOfInsects]
Mister Funk Offline
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Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 12
Loc: Italy
HI Mathofinsects, I'm italian and i don t speak english very well. Sorry. I'm looking for both things. I'd like to play songs in some different way....
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#2895741 - 12/13/17 04:26 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Mister Funk]
Mjazz Offline
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The Jazz Harmony Book, by David Berkman ... Amazon
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#2895748 - 12/13/17 05:16 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Al Quinn]
Donsta Offline
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Registered: 03/16/16
Posts: 106
Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
Checkout Jeb Patton's book: An Approach to Comping. Jeb provides very good explanations and examples of passing chords.


I'm also a fan of Jeb Patton. Vol II of the above book is now available.
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#2896156 - 12/15/17 02:21 PM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: Donsta]
J_tour Offline
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Registered: 08/31/05
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Loc: PDX, OR
I don't have much too add, but I can just say a few things (maybe just one thing) that I've found helpful.

Basically, I don't think I'm alone here, for a long while I got locked into thinking of diminished 7 chords in terms of a vertical kind of jazz thing. You know, like "well, OK, there's your 7b9 right there!"

But spending more time just sight reading in, particularly in Bach and Mozart, it really occurred to my just how versatile from getting from (a) --> (b) diminished work can be (scales, arpeggios, straight chords).

Kind of a secret weapon, IMHO.

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#2896250 - 12/16/17 10:39 AM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: J_tour]
WheelHead Offline
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Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 406
When I read about students looking for books I think of what Bill Evans (documented) said to his brother when he was spending a week over his (Bill's) house and said, "great! you can show me some things!!!" Bill Evans said he probably can show him nothing that he has to 'get into' the instrument and "discover" many things that will amaze the player. Herbie Hancock says a similar statement. Many great players play anything but their "anything" from their years of playing sounds good. They do not usually think of mathematical chord formulas. They go by their ear and what they discovered through practice, imho. If you can't "discover" it - you don't have the talent, imo - so a book course can get a person playing something that can sound a bit nice and make sense. (and obviously I am not talking about classical prints and also obviously there is a lot of listening)

Perhaps blasphemy also to say, I have listened closely to greats like guitarist Pat Martino. Imo, many times to my 'ear' he takes off completely out of the key and chord sequences of the song, harmonization completely unrelated - plays anything in a run (but his anything is quite great) then lands back in the chords of the jazz tune quickly before the listener hears the dissonance to the target note and just about everyone listening thinks "that was a genious harmonization" (actually he played anything) One reason why he has never had a student that plays like him, imo.

WH
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#2896366 - Yesterday at 07:50 AM Re: Reharmonization - passing chords [Re: WheelHead]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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The biggest issue with reharmonization, is taste... taste in terms of the melody.
Of course if you are into Cecil Taylor, then anything goes!
But back to point... a reharmonization is in constant danger of contradicting the melody. Of course that is where taste comes into play.

I would always be mindful of the melody while attempting reharmonization. Also, Reharm can easily drift into overly intellectual, tastelessness.
I would approach it, in a conservative way.
Invent more than one way to harmoniza a song.. little by little you can take bigger chances... being increasingly modern. . WHat I mean by that is.. you can be less mindful of the melodies inherent harmony, surrounding your new harmonies.

Also analyzing the masters of reharmonization by choosing just one example.
Compare what the master did to what a vanilla version might be.
Masters of reharmonization?
Well I am a 20th century musician.
Gil Evans
Bill Evans
Chick Corea
Johnny Mandel
Claus Ogerman
Nelson Riddle
Thad Jones
Herbie Hancock
Andy La Verne He created a series of reharms for Aebersold called Tunes You Thought You Knew..

My 2 favorite 21st century Gospel guys are well known here... Travis Sayles and Cory Henry.
You will learn much, if you slowly compare the original harmony to what masters have done.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (Yesterday at 08:15 AM)
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