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#2892851 - 11/28/17 07:45 AM Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
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At one point the anticipated shipping dates for the Behringer Model D were in November, then they slipped to December 15th, at least at Musician's Friend--that's what they were saying when I ordered mine last week. However, at the moment they're saying 1/13/18.

Has anyone received one yet or does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information as to when they will ship?

The two scenarios I can see are:
1) They're on allocation and the orders are being filled FIFO. Under this scenario, someone who ordered earlier might conceivably have already gotten theirs if they ordered back when the shipping dates were projected to be in November. Mine might ship ca. 12/15 and someone who orders today would see theirs ship 1/13.

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.)

Notes:
Different retailers give different ship dates.
The Behringer web site still doesn't admit that the unit exists.

Grey
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#2892863 - 11/28/17 08:20 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
...... does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information.....

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out.


Non-speculative??? laugh
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#2892867 - 11/28/17 08:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bill H. Offline
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Guy in another forum said his Sweetwater rep is now saying early January too.

Initial delay was because production was being moved to a new factory complex. Haven't heard if that's the reason this time or not, but it would be reasonable to assume that it is.

I'm mildly interested in the product, but can easily wait until... whenever.

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#2892947 - 11/28/17 03:23 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bill H.]
GRollins Offline
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As far as I know, no one's mentioned that theirs has come in.

Grey
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#2892950 - 11/28/17 03:35 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
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My guess ...
There´s NAMM and there´s Musikmesse ...

They will come up w/ the final product then.

I expect the same for Tom Oberheim´s SEM-X (and hope both will complement well !)

A.C.

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#2892956 - 11/28/17 04:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
Marzzz Offline
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It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.

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#2892963 - 11/28/17 05:45 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.


Why this was our very last NAMM show 01/17
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#2892966 - 11/28/17 06:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
U.Honey Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.


I doubt that there are software bugs. It’s a copy of Moog model D. Did the original have any software? I know it has the midi and USB interfaces but that’s not a lot of software.

Hardware bugs, that makes sense.
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#2892967 - 11/28/17 06:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
RABid Offline
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Maybe osc 2 will not stay in tune. razz
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#2892975 - 11/28/17 06:59 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
GRollins Offline
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I believe I saw something to the effect that the reason one of the early demo videos only played long, droning pads was that there were MIDI Note Off issues. Don't see offhand why that should be difficult to fix, but maybe there's something that's not immediately obvious.

If the Behringer truly is a straight adaptation of the original Moog Model D schematic, then the hardware issues should be minimal to none. This isn't some freaky, cutting edge, 21st Century technological wonder...it's a 50 year-old, proven design. Some of the semiconductors (e.g. E112 JFET) might be difficult to source, but Moog themselves will have had to address the same problems when they came out with their reissue, so basically it will come down to replacing one part with another with similar specs. None of the parts are being driven anywhere close to their limits, so there should be any number of candidate replacements. The bean-counters will want to weigh in as to which parts are most economical, but it's not for lack of pieces-parts to substitute.

Hell, the circuit isn't all that complicated. If I wasn't up to my hips in alligators, I'd build one or two, myself. I like etching circuit boards.

To be honest, I'd probably "improve" things a bit. One of the obvious, easy things would be simply to use 1% (okay, okay, maybe 2% to save a few pennies) metal film resistors throughout the circuit, instead of carbon comp. True the original had a few 1% in critical spots, but might as well do 'em all. 741 opamps are execrable. Replace them with something better. Yes, purists will argue that changing those out might change the sound, the magic, but why not give it a try? Use THAT 300 Series matched bipolars, etc. etc. etc. There are all kinds of things that I could do, since I wouldn't be answerable to an accounting department. It'd be fun.

I'd better stop. If I keep this up, I'm going to talk myself into tackling this as a project and I absolutely cannot commit myself to more stuff at this time. I've still got the master bath to finish, a desk top that I'm finishing, two guitars that I'm refinishing, plus a half-dozen other things, and that's not counting holiday commitments.

Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...

Grey
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#2893047 - 11/29/17 07:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe BrokeIt Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...
So you could sleep 40 of them? grin

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#2893059 - 11/29/17 08:08 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
GRollins Offline
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Dude, I only sleep, at best, 4-5 hours a night. Average is closer to 3-4. Today I'm running on about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of sleep. Makes it hard to remember things; my short term memory is for shit (ask my wife--sometimes it's funny--sometimes it's not). Sometimes I get pretty grumpy, although I try to remain aware of my attitude and tamp down on extremes, knowing that it's often 80% my fault.

If, somehow, I were to miraculously have more time in my days, I doubt it would make much difference in my sleep patterns, although I could always cross fingers and hope.

Grey
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#2893107 - 11/29/17 11:29 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe BrokeIt Offline
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When I don't get enough sleep, I get pretty miserable. The numbers you state would make me awful to be around. So I take naps when I can and need to. idk

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#2893207 - 11/30/17 01:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
GRollins Offline
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Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.

Incidentally, I wrote Behringer directly at about the same time that I started this thread. I received one of those form letter responses, acknowledging that they had received my note and assigning me a Case Number. Their form letter promised a response "within one business day." So far...nothing.

Since this thread hasn't been inundated with "I got mine a week ago" posts, I'm assuming that there aren't UPS trucks trundling down the road, bursting with synths.

Well, okay, maybe there are, but they're not Behringer Model Ds.

Grey
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#2893211 - 11/30/17 02:43 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Marzzz Offline
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I actually waited four years for a [insert relatively famous high end VA synth], including two years after I made my “final” payment, and have seen various kickstarter projects deliver a year or more after the promised date. Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).

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#2893218 - 11/30/17 04:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).


Yeah, I'm sure you knew the risk going in - but it still sucks. Sorry about that.

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#2893235 - 11/30/17 06:25 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
joegerardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. Do you snore unless you're on your side?

Ask your doc. I've been going through that for about 40 years - to the point of stumbling tired - and never went to the doctor about it because one more medical thing and I would lose my medical, and thus my pilot's license, so once BasicMed came out for pilots, first thing I did was a home sleep study. Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now, and while it's only a bit better than before, it's because it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it. The new machines have WiFi, so you can report on it and they make changes pretty much on the fly.

..Joe
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#2893245 - 11/30/17 07:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: joegerardi]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. ......Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now....... it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it.

..Joe


Sleep apnea is a condition that can cause serious health issues. I was diagnosed 4 years ago (waking 45 times per hour). Thought I was losing my mind prior to treatment.

It takes time to get used to the machine but I sleep quite well now and wake feeling rested, even when I only get 6 hours sleep. I feel like I got my life back.

Get a sleep study to be sure.
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#2893251 - 11/30/17 07:30 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bif_]
GRollins Offline
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One problem...I don't snore. No breathing difficulties whatsoever. I've been this way since I was a child. My mother was frantic to get me to sleep and keep me that way. She even made triple-thick curtains (this being back in the era when housewives did such things) in an attempt to block the morning sunlight. It made no difference. She'd come in to wake me in the mornings and I'd already be up, playing with my Legos. Drove her crazy. It got a little better during my teen years. When other teens were doing the typical ten hours of sleep and having to be dragged from bed, I got up to a "normal" eight hours or so. By age twenty, I was back on the decline--six to seven. It's been a long, slow progression since then. There was a blip back when I was getting divorced. At that time, I was firmly into six hours per night, but the stress of the divorce drove me down to four. Once the divorce was over, I rebounded back to six and resumed my slow slope downwards. These days, my typical sleep pattern is two to four hours of sleep, awake for two to four, then, maybe a nap of an hour or two if I'm lucky. Then I'm in motion.

Oddly, other than my short term memory, I function at least as well as the people around me. I'm used to it. My wife's used to it. The kids think nothing of it. I have other peculiarities, they're just not as apparent. The standing joke is that I'm some sort of alien, not a human.

They say Thomas Edison got by on virtually no sleep and what he got was mostly catnaps. I do not claim his genius, but I can see his way of life more clearly than that of so-called normal peoples'.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (11/30/17 10:29 AM)
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#2893258 - 11/30/17 07:57 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Offline
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this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax
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#2893264 - 11/30/17 08:14 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
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Told you I had short term memory problems...

Honestly, I was hoping against hope that someone would pop up and say that their D had come in, but they'd forgotten to mention it here. Obviously, that hasn't happened, so I'm assuming that everyone's in a holding pattern.

No one's mentioned any news, either.

Given that normal, spoken conversations over beer and pizza tend to range hither, thither, and yon, I've never expected threads to stay tightly focused. Indeed, it would be positively odd if they did. The only real exception I can think of is lectures of one sort or another, where one person has unquestioned sway. I certainly don't see that this thread deserves to be a lecture in any sense. I'm open to what others have to say about the D, or other things perhaps, if the conversation drifts.

I'm prepping a guitar to shoot some lacquer, so I'll be in and out of the thread as I wander past my PC.

Grey
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#2893265 - 11/30/17 08:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
J. Dan Online   content
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They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893278 - 11/30/17 09:02 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
dsetto Offline
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on the OT: I've read that before electricity, sleeping in two chunks was a thing.
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.

One day soon, you'll be enjoying it in parallel with your LP. It's their 2nd synth; and their 1st of this kind. There'll be bumps. And your plan is good.

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#2893307 - 11/30/17 10:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax

In other words, a fairly typical thread...

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#2893311 - 11/30/17 10:17 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.


True, that...

Grey
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#2893313 - 11/30/17 10:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: dsetto
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.


Touche.

You actually made me chuckle out loud with that one, something I rarely do.

And, no, before anyone asks, I haven't been losing sleep over the D.

(That's not to say that women with D busts haven't caused me to lose sleep, but...well...perhaps the less said about that, the better.)

Grey
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#2893316 - 11/30/17 10:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dsetto Offline
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Is what the D was? And if missed, it was then hammered in with this generation's mooger-this, phatty that. ... Apt for Fall 2017's assault on the assaulter. But, I digress.

I know you haven't been losing sleep over that D. Thanks for laughing. The auto-smiley emoticon follow-up was a let-down.

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#2893364 - 11/30/17 12:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Okay, here's today's Fun Fact:

According to MF, the expected ship date is now...

1/5/18.

Yep. Eight days nearer.

Somebody pop me some popcorn. I'm gonna make a game of this, watching the ship date slide back and forth.

Actually, an earlier ship date is the last thing I expected.

Glad I wasn't planning on giving one as a Christmas present or anything.

Grey
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#2893368 - 11/30/17 12:25 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
J. Dan Online   content
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They just did that so that people will place orders with them, thinking they'll get it a week earlier, and are just hoping they won't be pissed off when it doesn't actually ship by then.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893491 - 12/01/17 05:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Well, I guess Behringer doesn't get the coveted Amazingly Fast Customer Service Reward(tm). I wrote them on Tuesday and got an automated response saying they would respond within one (1) day...it's now been three (3) days and even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.

Grey
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#2893492 - 12/01/17 05:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.


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#2893547 - 12/01/17 10:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Well, I guess Behringer doesn't get the coveted Amazingly Fast Customer Service Reward(tm). I wrote them on Tuesday and got an automated response saying they would respond within one (1) day...it's now been three (3) days and even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.

Grey


No, you don't get it. Their response saying they would respond is their response. cop
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#2893687 - 12/02/17 02:50 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
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If we're using their automated response time, then, yeah...they did pretty well...like 0.39 mS or so. If a human-generated response was the desired result, then the clock is still ticking. (Not that I necessarily expect an answer on a Saturday, but I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)

It'd still be kinda nice to be able to download an owner's manual.

Grey
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#2893689 - 12/02/17 03:04 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins


...like 0.39 mS or so. If a human-generated response was the desired result, then the clock is still ticking.


That difference is what I call latency.

Maybe some human driver issue or IRQ sharing might be the culprit.

crazy

A.C.

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#2893692 - 12/02/17 03:10 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
... I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)
Grey


Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering when I might get a response to my email that starts and ends with

Dear Gibson:
F*ck you!

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#2893721 - 12/02/17 07:42 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: GRollins
... I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)
Grey


Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering when I might get a response to my email that starts and ends with

Dear Gibson:
F*ck you!


Maybe Gibson only browse their spam folder on the 4th Sunday of the month.
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#2895661 - 12/13/17 10:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
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...And speaking of Behringer synths...

The Model D ship date has gone from 1/5/18 to 1/12/18 at Musician's Friend.

Be sure to stay tuned for our next exciting episode of As The Behringer Turns!

Grey
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#2895662 - 12/13/17 10:55 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Oh, and I still haven't heard back from Behringer. I wrote them on 11/28 (a Tuesday, in case you were wondering) and got an automated reply that said they would respond "within one business day." Maybe they take an unusually long holiday break...like, from Thanksgiving to New Years, leading to their first business day being 1/2/18.

In the meantime, the crickets have died of old age. Their grandchildren are far more cynical and refuse to chirp for anyone.

Grey
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#2896039 - 12/15/17 02:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Today is 12/15/17--the day my Behringer Model D was supposed to ship, as of the day I ordered it.

Guys & gals, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but we're gonna have to pool our pennies and buy an entire popcorn factory. Our first acquisition when we get around to diversifying should probably be a cricket farm.

Why, you ask?

Well, it's like this--as of 05:05 this morning, Musician's Friend says the anticipated shipping date for the Behringer Model D is...wait for it...

3/1/18

I mean, like, wow. Holy cow.

I'm all for looking on the bright side: At least my credit card hasn't been charged, right? And it will give us conversational fodder for a while. A long while.

For the record, as of this moment:
Sweetwater says: "The Behringer D analog synthesizer module is expected to begin shipping in early 2018...we'll get ready to ship your Behringer D as early as we can!"

Guitar Center says: 1/12/18 (interesting--in the past they've tracked more closely with MF [they're the same company]--I'm going to assume that their website simply hasn't been updated yet.)

So what's Behringer say? They ain't sayin' nuthin'. Mum's the word. They still don't admit that the thing exists.

Wonder if Santa will be able to bring me one this time next year.

Grey
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#2896055 - 12/15/17 05:12 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dje31 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 190
Maybe Behringer, being a European company, is simply using the European standard for date format...as in 3 January, 2018?

Doubt it, but hey, hope springs eternal.

This is why, years ago, I personally adopted the computer standard, which is also commonly used in Japan and other Asian areas: YYYY.MM.DD

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#2896061 - 12/15/17 06:12 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dje31]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
The longer the delays go on, the more it tips the scales towards problems with the unit, rather than simple production bottlenecks. I remember seeing a shipping date in November, for sure, although I don't remember the specific date. I have a vague notion (possibly wrong) that there was at least one target shipping date as early as October. If they were actually producing working Model Ds, however slowly, we'd have seen a few in the field by now.

As mentioned before, there are two basic categories for problems with the unit itself: hardware or software. By hardware, I mean the electronics, not the sheet metal, knobs, or wooden end caps. Those should all be fairly straightforward sourcing matters.

However...I would like to introduce a dark horse candidate for the delay: A cease & desist order from Moog to Behringer.

I'm not sure what nature this would take. The patents have long since expired. You could argue about trademarks, perhaps, but calling it simply a "D" should be a simple enough work-around. Moog has never made any sort of non-keyboard version of the Model (like the Voyager RME) that I know of, though perhaps that information simply didn't filter over into my world as a bass player. Assuming that to be the case, I can't see that a lawyer could argue that there would be product confusion in the marketplace. But lawyers are inventive people and they may have come up with an angle they think will work.

Ironically, should a cease & desist order be what's behind the delays, I'd be just as happy to see Moog win, even if it meant that I wouldn't get my Behringer D. Sure, it'd be fun to have a cheap Model D clone, but I'd actually root for the home team (Moog Central is just an hour or two up the road from me). I like the company and want them to stay afloat.

What we need is a Wikileaks regarding synth secrets.

Grey
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#2896063 - 12/15/17 06:31 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
This made me chuckle: Just got a Backorder Notification from Musician's Friend regarding the Model D:

"We have yet to receive the out of stock item(s) noted below, but we have more on order with the manufacturer. We will ship them to you as soon as we receive them. We sincerely appreciate your patience."

That's about the fourth one of those, so far.

I don't think it's worth speculating about the word "more," although it seems to imply that they received some at some earlier point in time. It'll just be a boilerplate letter that they send out when something can't be shipped.

Well at least MF is communicating with us, even if Behringer can't be bothered to do so. (Still no reply to my query with Behringer, though they promised a response within one business day. Nothing public that I'm aware of, though if they tweet or something I'll be the last to know--don't have a Twitter account.)

Grey
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#2896070 - 12/15/17 07:00 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 492
Glad I went for the Roland SE02. I received it three month ago. Love it. The first batch was sold out very quickly in Europe.

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#2896076 - 12/15/17 07:17 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: TomKittel]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Brag, brag, brag...

(Man, if this goes on much longer, I may join you in that decision.)

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896087 - 12/15/17 08:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5555
Loc: Washington DC
Saw this blog post, and thought of the one person on the forum who cares about this thing. wink

Who will get one first? US or European customers?
http://www.synthanatomy.com/2017/12/fina...id-january.html
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#2896100 - 12/15/17 08:53 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Judging from a Behringer Model D thread I saw here a couple of months ago, there's a lot of interest in this li'l booger. I'd be quite surprised if I'm the only one here who put in an order. I'm more than willing to take point, keeping track of the weirdness surrounding The Phantom Model D, even if it leads to others being amused at my expense.

Me? I find it rather odd that Behringer--say what you will about their track record as a company--would handle things the way they have. In my own way, I'm deriving amusement by trying to fit the random pieces of the puzzle together.

Grey
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#2896106 - 12/15/17 09:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5555
Loc: Washington DC
On another forum, somebody brought up nostalgia, and I thought of the curious practicing of relicing in the guitarist community, which led to a side business idea - a Moog clone relicing service!

For a reasonable fee, I will scratch, dent, etc. your Moog clone to make it look old! As my business expands, I'll offer more service options like the Keith Emerson Special.






(... "only person interested" was a joke....)
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#2896111 - 12/15/17 09:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
You're gonna need a lot of knives for that Keith Emerson Special, but I daresay that you're going to have a lot of fun producing them. Good for lowering frustration levels.

(Fantasize your ex-boss/spouse/what have you...Take that and that and that...)

Grey
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#2896122 - 12/15/17 11:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
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Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3196
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Quote:
The longer the delays go on, the more it tips the scales towards problems with the unit, rather than simple production bottlenecks.


It might also have something to do with the new assembly line they were supposed to bring online in Oct or Nov of this year. Unfortunately, I can't find any information re. what was supposed to be assembled on it, or if they finished yet. I do recall hearing it was behind schedule.
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
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#2896124 - 12/15/17 11:15 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
When I was a kid, the letters "LOL" meant "Lots Of Luck." Now I gather that it means "Laugh Out Loud."

Musician's Friend currently says 1/12/18 (again)

"LOL"

And I mean it both ways...

Grey

P.S.: Where's my bloody popcorn? This is like some sort of sports game thingy, where the ball moves up and down the field/calendar. "My" team is on this end of the calendar. The opposition keeps trying to move the date to the far end. To be honest, I think the other team's winning. You say we're out of popcorn? Ate it all up? Really? Rats. Got any corn chips? Beer? If there's no beer left, can I have a wee dram of single malt?
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896125 - 12/15/17 11:15 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
WesG Offline
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_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Band Site: http://DrBombay.ca/

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#2896137 - 12/15/17 12:55 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 5555
Loc: Washington DC
Originally Posted By: GRollins
You're gonna need a lot of knives for that Keith Emerson Special, but I daresay that you're going to have a lot of fun producing them. Good for lowering frustration levels.


Yes, that is why I won't be able to offer it as a service initially. First I have to grow my company, expand staff and resources, etc. before I can offer the special at a true Artisanal level of service.
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#2896142 - 12/15/17 01:05 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: WesG


Yikes. Looks like you're onto something. That's not just a random strike, it's one that directly affects Behringer. The date on the article is back in August, but that could definitely be relevant, even if things have since been resolved. If they're not resolved, then I'd say you might have hit the nail on the head.

I'm short on time at the moment, but I'll try to get back to this later.

Thanks.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896144 - 12/15/17 01:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15688
Grey: you are obsessing.

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#2896146 - 12/15/17 01:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Yes, that is why I won't be able to offer it as a service initially. First I have to grow my company, expand staff and resources, etc. before I can offer the special at a true Artisanal level of service.


Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I was never a big fan of tearing up equipment, a la Pete Townshend smashing guitars or Keith stabbing Hammonds with knives. I always cringe when that sort of thing goes on, but there are people who love it.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896147 - 12/15/17 01:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Grey: you are obsessing.


If some is good, then more is better, and too much is just enough!

There was a time when I could have obsessed just a little teeny tiny bit about Cher.

Did you pick up some beer on the way over?

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896170 - 12/15/17 03:36 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896196 - 12/15/17 06:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Tom Williams Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 701
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
He didn't break the good ones -- it was only spinets without scanner chorus. A, B, and C models were probably too heavy to pull down on top of himself.
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PC361, PX-5S, AX-Synth
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#2896203 - 12/15/17 08:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2783
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.
_________________________
MainStage | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
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#2896204 - 12/15/17 08:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Tom Williams]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15688
Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
He didn't break the good ones -- it was only spinets without scanner chorus. A, B, and C models were probably too heavy to pull down on top of himself.


Exactly. The world is not pining for more L-100s. I think hundreds of thousands were built.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2896227 - 12/16/17 05:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
RichieP_MechE Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 1017
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: WesG
It might also have something to do with the new assembly line they were supposed to bring online in Oct or Nov of this year. Unfortunately, I can't find any information re. what was supposed to be assembled on it, or if they finished yet. I do recall hearing it was behind schedule.

This is pretty much right - see the last paragraph of this forum post from Uli Behringer - clonk

Originally Posted By: Uli Behringer
P.S. The Model D production has been delayed due to our massive factory move which was more challenging than we had estimated. We are confident to ship the first few hundred units from our factory by yearend, however full mass production will move into Q1 next year.

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#2896247 - 12/16/17 10:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RichieP_MechE]
Marzzz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/24/00
Posts: 2376
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
I have a Mini Reissue and I am extremely happy with it, but I have to say regarding the Behringer D, "not bad at all..."


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#2896260 - 12/16/17 11:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.


So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how? In reference to what? I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning.

(Not that the ability to report news from something that hasn't happened yet makes sense, either...)

Grey
_________________________
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#2896265 - 12/16/17 12:03 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RichieP_MechE]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: RichieP_MechE
This is pretty much right - see the last paragraph of this forum post from Uli Behringer - clonk

Originally Posted By: Uli Behringer
P.S. The Model D production has been delayed due to our massive factory move which was more challenging than we had estimated. We are confident to ship the first few hundred units from our factory by yearend, however full mass production will move into Q1 next year.



Thanks for posting that in this thread as well as the "...At It Again" thread. I saw your other post just as we were about to leave to go see Star Wars and wasn't able to pursue matters until I got back. You saved me the trouble of cross referencing your other post.

Given that he was quoting a backlog of 20k units as of August (I think it was August), and that even more people have placed orders since then, I have to wonder what the projected rate of production is. Looks to be many hundreds per day. I hope their QC is up to the task.

Grey
_________________________
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#2896267 - 12/16/17 12:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
AND THE BALL MOVES NEARER!

Score one for our team!

MF is back to saying 1/12/18.

(Actually, I'm kinda thinking that the projected ship date is on a random number generator that triggers about once an hour.)

Want some chips? Here...

Grey
_________________________
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#2896290 - 12/16/17 04:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3196
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Quote:
So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how?


Maybe the person who wrote the article was Chinese?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Wes
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
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#2896297 - 12/16/17 05:54 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: WesG
Quote:
So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how?


Maybe the person who wrote the article was Chinese?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Wes


I confess to puzzlement.

It's all a plot to destabilize Western democracy. Those wily Chinese will have us all scratching our heads before this is over.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896301 - 12/16/17 06:34 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Offline
KCFF League Champion 2017
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6692
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: GRollins

I confess to puzzlement.

obviously
Originally Posted By: GRollins

It's all a plot to destabilize Western democracy. Those wily Chinese will have us all scratching our heads before this is over.



not trying to be a step in moderator here but these kind of posts are clearly against forum rules and don't belong on this or any other thread. Stop now.
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#2896306 - 12/16/17 07:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2783
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.


So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how? In reference to what? I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning.

(Not that the ability to report news from something that hasn't happened yet makes sense, either...)

Grey

FFS

Many in the rest of the world use the - day/month/year format

In the US - month/day/year is used.

Get it?
_________________________
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"He helped me onto the bottom rung as a musician, from which, I might add, I never ascended" Glyn Johns - Sound Man

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#2896308 - 12/16/17 08:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
not trying to be a step in moderator here but these kind of posts are clearly against forum rules and don't belong on this or any other thread. Stop now.


Who am I offending and how?

The Behringer Model D is being manufactured in China. Chinese people live in China, which is kind of the point of being Chinese. The news article referencing a strike at a plant that manufactures at least some of Behringer's units (which may or may not include the Model D--unclear) was written (as near as I can tell) by an NGO that is based in, or at least reports on, labor conditions in China--again referencing China and the inhabitants thereof, the Chinese people; possibly even staffed by Chinese people.

Is it against forum rules to reference China or the Chinese people? Boy, that's going to be awkward, given that virtually everything is made in China these days. (Okay, okay...some in Korea, Hong Kong...but an awful lot of everything comes from China.)

I would think that it's obvious from context that my statement about destabilizing Western democracy is clearly tongue in cheek. No matter how upset a subset of the world's people we commonly refer to as "Western" get...well, wait, it's much smaller than that, because the group is really only going to be comprised of keyboard players who play electronic music, and to limit it further, electronic keyboard players who happen to like Moog-style synthesizers, and have available funds to buy a $300 unit...etc. etc. etc. Anyway, by the time you filter it down, it's clearly a pretty limited segment of the population at large. Not a particularly large, powerful segment, mind you, mostly just some average guys and gals who want to play music on a reproduction analog synth.

You really, truly took me seriously that some 20,000 (as of August but, okay, let's double that, since orders are still coming in) irate musicians are going to rise up and start a revolution? Over production delays on a synthesizer?

Strong with the Force, these players must be!

Or is it the word "wily" that's upset you? Mr. Google says that wily means: "skilled at gaining an advantage, especially deceitfully." Ah! Maybe we're onto something here, and yet...and yet...since the sentence immediately preceding the one referenced was clearly meant humorously, surely wily would reasonably be taken as being more along the lines of Wil E. Coyote, aka Wily Coyote--i.e. also humorously.

Which leads us to the blowoff phrase, "scratching our heads," which must be rather a letdown after such a fearsome buildup, yes? If it all comes down to scratching our heads, nothing more, then surely it's no more than a tempest in a teapot.

Again...who has been offended, and how?

Aw, what the hell, let's do this: I hereby formally apologize to any and all peoples, be they Chinese or otherwise, wily or otherwise, attempting to destabilize Western democracy or otherwise, up to and including head scratchers or otherwise (...oh, wait...could head scratching be an indication that we have lice? Yuk. Okay, now that is insulting.) who might (or might not) have taken offense at my attempt at humor.

There. Did I miss anyone? Anything? Do we need subparagraphs, clauses, and other such legalistic embellishments or will that soothe any potentially ruffled feathers?

Gracious.

Of all the things we're losing these days, I find myself missing humor the most.

Grey

P.S.: Man, now that I brought up head lice, I'm feeling all grossed out and itchy. Here's hoping it's just psychosomatic. But I was at the theater today watching Star Wars and maybe there were critters on the seat, and...now I just feel nasty all over. Eeewwwww!
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#2896310 - 12/16/17 08:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: Markay
FFS

Many in the rest of the world use the - day/month/year format

In the US - month/day/year is used.

Get it?


There seems to be an outbreak of bad temper around these parts. I'd better go get my inoculation shot--don't want to catch anything.

According to the map in the Wikipedia article referenced above, China is yellow, which, if you read the legend, translates as "YMD."

Thus, 8/12/17 would render as:
2008
December
17th

I don't mind the December part so much, but as I write this, it's still the 16th here...but wait...China's over the International Date Line, so they're already on the 17th. Whew, dodged a bullet there...

So, we've established December the 17th, which is today (as long as you're in China), as the date...

...but...

There's still that pesky 2008 to deal with. It kinda makes things worse, ya know? They (that being the non-Chinese, non-wily, non-destabilizers) have now been demonstrated to have an even more powerful time travel machine, having been able to report on something that wouldn't happen for another nine years.

So...please...don't FFS me until you actually read the "Date format by country" article. It makes matters worse, not better. And being rude doesn't help clarify matters, either.

Jeez.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/16/17 08:32 PM)
_________________________
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#2896311 - 12/16/17 08:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2783
Loc: Australia
And so the rant continues with all offense taken.
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#2896333 - 12/17/17 02:26 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
As I mentioned earlier (in this thread? I think so), I am perpetually in sleep deprivation mode. Yesterday I was running on about 3 hours sleep. At the moment, I'm running on about 2 1/2 hours. Hope to get more.

One of my coping strategies for dealing with sleep deprivation is to break a problem down into smaller parts, then focus on one of those parts exclusively. Obviously, people don't understand that. Lots of (most?) people claim that they're pretty good at multitasking. I don't even try to pretend.

(Moe, it's not that I'm obsessed, per se, it's that I'm trying to solve the riddle of Model D production in as linear a manner as possible.)

After a while--and having learned from experience that people don't grok my approach--I try to throw in humor to lighten things up. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. If I was a standup comic, I'd hone my material and play the same show every night, having weeded out what wasn't working. Here, I'm playing to the same crowd every night (including the hecklers) and trying to riff the same jokes over and over wouldn't work. So, I'm perpetually trying new material, so as to ease over the difficulties incidental to my sleep deprivation. Some works. Some doesn't. Same ol' story.

But really...
--Time is non-linear in China?
--Someone (anyone) on this planet has a time machine?
--The strike took place a while back and they're just now reporting it?

Actually that last one is plausible, given that news doesn't always get out of China promptly. But still, the other two...? Anyone who took those seriously should be flogged with a wet noodle. Twice. No, make it three times. This is clearly a serious offense.

NOTE: Me throwing out (attempted) humor does not mean that I've switched tracks and am focusing on that topic. In this case, I was more intent on looking into Eurotec Electronics and made absolutely no attempt to divide my attention--which was already badly fragmented anyway, this being the busiest holiday season we've had in years--I was just noting the date anomaly in passing and trying to make a joke of it. Sure enough, the hecklers didn't laugh, but that's hecklers for you.

All righty, lemme set my attention to this date thing, since it seems that either the issue itself or my treatment of it has raised hackles on the hecklers. (I like alliteration. It amuses me, if no one else. I just nailed three h-words in a row. This is sure to annoy someone, though.)

WARNING: Being forced to shift my attention when I'm focused on something makes me grumpy. You are hereby advised that I may be a) more acerbic than usual, or b) being aware that I'm grumpy when pulled away from what I'm doing, I may attempt more humor to smooth the way. You have been warned.

News of the strike, kindly provided by WesG, came via one "China Labour Bulletin." Never heard of 'em, but that doesn't mean a thing. At first blush, I went with the idea that they were based in mainland China. Stopped there. Didn't want any distractions while I was looking into Eurotec. After I laid down a little while ago, it occurred to me that the honchos in mainland China probably doesn't much care for the sort of reporting that the China Labour Bulletin is doing. Hmmm... So where are they based? The British spelling of "labour" is a hint, but I'm too far into sleep deprivation to try to unravel that thread, so I took the direct approach and looked at the About Us/Contact information and found that they're based in Hong Kong which, being a former British colony, is consistent with their spelling of labo(u)r. And according to Wikipedia, Hong Kong does indeed use DMY format...sometimes. Apparently, they use DMY when speaking English, but YMD when speaking Chinese. I see multiple opportunities for confusion there, but since I don't live in Hong Kong, I won't have to worry about it very often.

(That's the kind of factoid that I like to throw into stories, so this little diversion may yet serve another purpose. Cool.)

So, here we are, having demonstrated that time isn't necessarily nonlinear in China. (Shouldn't have to do that, but let's be thorough while we're at it.) Can't prove that there's no time machine (you can't prove a negative), but it's seriously unlikely that a hypothetical time machine would be used for the rather trivial purpose of reporting on an obscure strike before it happens. Better to haul it out for something more consequential, like changing the score of a soccer game or killing someone's grandfather. (I hear Vader's dead. Does that mean Kylo Ren will vanish in a puff of smoke?)

Will this satisfy the hecklers? Nah. Probably not. But I'm going back to what I was doing before, regardless.

While Uli says that delays in Model D production are due to a change in venue--and I have no reason to doubt what he says--it might still dovetail with news of the strike that WesG found, in that a factory that's not producing widgets is going to be particularly difficult problem during product (ha! scored not only 3 p-words, but managed p-d-p-d-p...yesssss!) rollout for a back ordered item like the Model D. The chemically-induced health problems at that factory might prove difficult/expensive/time consuming to solve. Plus potential PR pitfall (four P's, I'm on a roll, folks). Solution: Bring the Model D in-house or farm it out to another OEM.

Incidentally, the China Labour Bulletin article said that Eurotec was owned by Music Group, but I couldn't find any notice of it anywhere else. Nor could I find evidence that Music Group is in any way associated with the manufacture or sales of kitchen appliances in, say, the case that they've got a mega-factory with unused capacity that they put to use in manufacturing for others.

I'm tired. I'm going back to bed.
(This, too, will probably bug someone.)

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/17/17 02:31 AM)
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#2897467 - 12/22/17 04:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
U.Honey Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 203
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Now musiciansfriend.com says "Expected to Ship 03-01-2018". That's 1st of March confused
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#2897511 - 12/23/17 02:02 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
The thing I'd like to know is whether all orders are expected to ship on 3/1 (or whenever) or if that date applies to those who order today, with earlier orders being shipped by the 1/12 date.

To date, I have not heard that any have shipped, but other members here sometimes report in from other forums and could have heard news from elsewhere.

Grey
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#2897542 - 12/23/17 06:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Rod S Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 2909
Loc: São Paulo, Brasil
Originally Posted By: GRollins
--Time is non-linear in China?

Gearing a bit off topic ... I saw an article some time ago about time perception in different countries. Interesting read, and correct from the perspective of the countries I'm familiar with.

Punctuality in Brazil is in general horrible, but it is best where I live (São Paulo). In Rio it's terrible. Punctuality is offensive, and a major source of argument when I'm conducting projects in Rio (where I'm actually from). Northern states are even worse.

I like working with Europeans. Super punctual, straight to the point, no bullshit.

Tons of jokes with Mexicans. "un ratito.." can mean anything.

As far as the data format, since I worked a lot in American Multinational companies, I always write a date as 05/Feb/17 and never as 05/02/17 or 02/05/17. Confusion is guaranteed to ensure if I do.
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#2897546 - 12/23/17 06:36 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Rod S]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Well, here's something new:

I've received regular notices from Musician's Friend apologizing for the delay in shipping my D. They've been very good about that. I got another this morning, but this one's format is different from its predecessors. It says, "...we expect to be able to ship your order within 30 days."

Today is Saturday, 12/23/17. A quick glance at the calendar gives a target date of...[Grey mutters under his breath, counts on his fingers, runs out of fingers, starts on toes, runs out of toes, starts over...]...uh, looks like somewhere around 1/22/18. That's a Monday.

Unless they mean thirty business days, in which case all bets are off.

I'm tired of popcorn. Tired of beer. Tired of corn chips. Think I'll start in on eggnog.

Fortified eggnog.

(Can I say that in this thread? I seem to have aroused the ire of another member by not being sufficiently critical of a Famous Musician for doing drugs. Screw it. It's the holidays, it's my thread, and I think I'll have eggnog or perhaps a wee dram sometime later in the day, after I've woken up properly.)

And in the spirit of RodS's observations about cultural notions and expectations regarding time, I will add that I expect to receive my D mañana.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/23/17 06:37 AM)
_________________________
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#2897550 - 12/23/17 07:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3196
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Rod S - date formats were (are?) a real issue in Canada, since we've traditionally done it the English way, but are located right next to the US.

My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes
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#2897557 - 12/23/17 07:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
dje31 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 190
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

That's how I've done it for years...big in a lot of Asia, and the de facto standard in IT.

You can also look at it as an odometer in your car...the furthest right digit changes most often.

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#2897558 - 12/23/17 07:35 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: WesG
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes


I use MM/DD/YY except for my music files, for exactly that reason. I find it easier to sort through them. Yes, I have to shift mental gears, but I'm used to it.

I've had to shift gears between computer center time (24 hr.) and "regular" time (12 hr.) for years. It becomes second nature after a decade or two.

Grey
_________________________
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#2897559 - 12/23/17 07:47 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
SteveCoscia Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 574
Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
Originally Posted By: WesG
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes


Yes, that date convention is a favorite. And for the same reason ... sorting.
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#2897564 - 12/23/17 08:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
#%$(# Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 4989
Loc: Orlando, Florida
Originally Posted By: GRollins

MF is back to saying 1/12/18.


Oh man. Now it's pushed back to December 1, 2018??? Oh no, that sucks!

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#2897585 - 12/23/17 09:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: #%$(#]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
What do I care? Mine will ship within thirty days.

Grey
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#2897669 - 12/23/17 06:39 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
#%$(# Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 4989
Loc: Orlando, Florida
Originally Posted By: GRollins
What do I care? Mine will ship within thirty days.


Maths is hard.

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#2897772 - 12/24/17 06:44 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 4001
Loc: out in the sticks
What´s that damn thread all about ?

Not being able to wait until it´s released ?
And if it won´t,- who cares ?
So many options to buy synths these days.

B.t.w.,- when released and available,- I´ll buy one and just only because I´m curious.

A.C.

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#2897777 - 12/24/17 07:24 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15688
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
What´s that damn thread all about ?


Apparently, time runs backwards in China. wink
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---
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#2897817 - 12/25/17 06:35 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
What´s that damn thread all about ?
A.C.


I don't know about that one, but this one is a running commentary on vague, self-contradictory, and generally confusing product releases. It's not the worst rollout I've ever seen, but you have to admit that it's pretty helter-skelter.

(Guess I just lost my chance at a free ARP 2600, eh?)

As of this morning, Behringer has a product which is available for pre-order yet still doesn't exist according to their website. Uli Behringer himself admits the thing exists, but there's no solid information available, short of a sales sheet he linked to...that's not available via their main website, natch. The sheet does have a little rudimentary information, but there's not much more than what you could deduce from general knowledge about the original Moog Model D. A PDF version of the owner's manual might be a good move.

Currently, Musician's Friend lists March 1st as the shipping date, but that has oscillated back and forth with January 12th so many times I've lost count. Sometimes it's stable for several days in a row. Other times it changes every six hours or so. It's fascinating, in a car wreck, "This is an object lesson in how not to handle a product rollout," sort of way.

I mean, can you imagine being the guy or gal charged with updating the shipping date? Jeez, it must be a full time job.

"Hi, my name's Jill. I work at Musician's Friend."
"Good to meet you, Jill. I like what you've done with your hair. Um, what do you do at Musician's Friend?"
"Oh, I'm the Behringer Anticipated Shipping Date Website Updater! It's, like, a very prestigious position. I'm busy all the time--you have no idea!"
"Let me get you another glass of wine and you can tell me all about it."

I find it curious that Behringer manages to post more information on their website regarding vaporware products (e.g. the ARP 2600, et. al.) than they do for something that's supposedly going to be shipping in the hundreds this week and is expected to achieve full production by next month.

Don't get me wrong. I put money on the line. If the thing's sufficiently interesting, I may get a couple more so as to poly chain, but...really, guys...this is a pretty screwy situation, ya know?

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/25/17 06:36 AM)
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#2897850 - 12/25/17 08:51 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
FunkKeyStuff Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1898
They officially lost me. Order cancelled, getting an SE-02 instead. The patch memory alone wasn't worth the extra $200. Patch memory plus an extra three months of use, starting with gigs this week, is.
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#2897860 - 12/25/17 09:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
I can understand your point of view. Since I'm not gigging, I can afford the wait. For me, this is just a toy to mess with.

(And a thread where I can poke fun at myself and others in the same situation.)

So how do you like your Roland?

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2897861 - 12/25/17 09:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Karl Schmeer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 214
Loc: State of Misery
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
They officially lost me. Order cancelled, getting an SE-02 instead. The patch memory alone wasn't worth the extra $200. Patch memory plus an extra three months of use, starting with gigs this week, is.


You won't regret this. There are a host of other goodies like
delay FX, LFO options, cross modulation routings, envelope triggering modes and even a step sequencer to show it all off.
None of these on the clone.
Enjoy my friend smile
_________________________
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#2900319 - 01/07/18 02:32 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Karl Schmeer]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
I had some doo-dads I needed, so I tried to place an order with Musician's Friend. Their computer stuck out its tongue at me and said, "I'm gonna sulk today." So I called and talked to a human. Got the order placed, everything's groovy there.

While I had this person on the line (who shall remain nameless in case this is, somehow, top secret information--don't want to get 'em in trouble), I asked about my Behringer Model D. This is what I was told:

MF expects a shipment of Behringer Model Ds in on 1/12/18. The quantity (I was given a figure, but will retain that info, as it might also be secret) is sufficient to meet all back orders, plus leave some available for sale. Given that it takes the warehouse ~24 hours to process incoming stuff and that the 12th is a Friday and that the warehouse is closed on weekends, it will probably be Monday or Tuesday before units actually ship. People should start looking for their Model Ds sometime during the week of 1/16-1/19, depending on shipping distances from the warehouse.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2900892 - 01/09/18 12:42 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7733
Loc: Ghost Planet
‘Please allow me to clarify that the first batch of Model D’s had arrived at our German retailer Music Store right before yearend, which you can easily verify with them.

The next batch will hopefully leave the factory by end of coming week with some units being air-shipped to the US. The production is still relatively slow due to the fact that each unit takes over 30 minutes to warm up followed by a meticulous one-hour calibration and quality assurance procedure. The electronic-savvy people among you understand that unlike digital synths, producing true analog instruments is a much bigger challenge.

I truly understand your frustration, but we are literally swamped with ten thousands of backorders and we simply need some time to ramp up. We will never rush as quality always comes first.

As you may know, we have recently moved into our new and highly-automated 3 million square-feet plant which has been more challenging than we initially thought, a circumstance that has added to the delay. Moving with over 3,000 people and 800 truck loads of equipment has likely been one of the biggest challenges in my life.
However we are very happy that manufacturing is now fully back up again and our new factory will dramatically increase our efficiency plus lower manufacturing cost – benefits we can then pass on to you the customers.

Thank you for your understanding and amazing support.

Uli’

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#2900897 - 01/09/18 01:01 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: burningbusch]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
The next batch will hopefully leave the factory by end of coming week...


Thanks.

When was that posted?

Grey
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#2900918 - 01/09/18 02:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7733
Loc: Ghost Planet

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#2900927 - 01/09/18 02:41 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: burningbusch]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
If you follow the link at the bottom of that post, it takes you to Uli's original post on gearslutz, which indicates that it was posted "six days ago," though I'm not seeing an absolute date. Just as well, as the date would probably be in one of those pesky Chinese date formats.

In any event, six days ago would be on or about 1/3, so "coming week" presumably means this week. That's consistent with what I was told by Musician's Friend.

I also find it interesting to note that the Behringer site has finally admitted that the Model D exists. Go to their main page, then wait for it to scroll across. If you tag the link, you'll find not only information on their Model D, but some history of analog synthesis. Cool.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2901577 - 01/12/18 07:46 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
I'm in the process of (trying to) get a MIDI encoder from midiboutique. It's been a battle. The device I'm getting needs an interface to hook to a PC so it can be programmed; I can also use it to update the OS in my Little Phatty, etc., so it's off to Musician's Friend again. (Might as well put 'em on speed dial.)

While I was on the phone, I asked about the status of the Model D and...you will be thunderstruck to hear that the shipping date (at least for MF) is now next Friday, 1/19/18, instead of today. No info as to why--maybe hung in Customs or something, who knows.

Try to contain your astonishment.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2901617 - 01/12/18 09:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15688
A few years back I had a Mojo shipping from Italy only to get lost for 2 weeks in a massive snowstorm that shut down their whole country.

Nearly 50 years ago, I ordered a fancy Farfisa and had to wait 6 months - for a keyboard already in production.

I think I have been cured of panting about gear I don't yet have.
_________________________
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---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2901635 - 01/12/18 10:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 653
I won a guitar on eBay a year ago. The most expensive single instrument I've ever bought. Hell, after houses and cars, it's probably the most expensive item I've ever bought, period. It got dropped off at UPS and they logged it in. It left the next morning.

And vanished.

After no update to the tracking page for a week, I called UPS. As soon as I gave the woman at UPS Central the tracking number, she instantly said, "It's lost."

Good feeling, that.

I could drag out the story, because it went on for quite a while, but the thing suddenly turned up after an internal tracking investigation was initiated. Just mysteriously bubbled to the surface and started moving again. Got here in perfect condition. Yay! But, man, there were some anxious moments.

What happened? Who knows. Maybe it got stuck in a corner and forgotten. Maybe the truck got stuck in the snow (big snow storm out west during that time period--though the UPS lady said there were codes to indicate weather problems--none of those were flagged). Maybe someone got fancy ideas and tried to take it home. Beyond my ken.

This D thing is comparatively low stakes. It's a current mass production item (well...supposedly) and will eventually get here. It's just fun to watch the game.

I'm intending two experiments once it gets here:
1) Slave it off the Little Phatty, either in parallel with all five oscillators running simultaneously, or poly chain.
2) Attach it semi-permanently to the (ex-Kurzweil) Fatar keybed as a more dedicated kind of thing.

The LP is easy. The Fatar saga is dragging on and on and on (over two weeks so far and presumably at least another week or two to go, bare minimum). There's no telling how that will play out, but I'm glad to have the LP (the MM8, I guess, would be another option, but it's hooked to the Motif rack dingus) on hand so as to be able to get some good out of the D when it gets here.

Somebody pass the popcorn.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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