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#2892851 - 11/28/17 07:45 AM Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping
GRollins Offline
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At one point the anticipated shipping dates for the Behringer Model D were in November, then they slipped to December 15th, at least at Musician's Friend--that's what they were saying when I ordered mine last week. However, at the moment they're saying 1/13/18.

Has anyone received one yet or does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information as to when they will ship?

The two scenarios I can see are:
1) They're on allocation and the orders are being filled FIFO. Under this scenario, someone who ordered earlier might conceivably have already gotten theirs if they ordered back when the shipping dates were projected to be in November. Mine might ship ca. 12/15 and someone who orders today would see theirs ship 1/13.

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.)

Notes:
Different retailers give different ship dates.
The Behringer web site still doesn't admit that the unit exists.

Grey
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#2892863 - 11/28/17 08:20 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
...... does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information.....

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out.


Non-speculative??? laugh
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#2892867 - 11/28/17 08:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bill H. Offline
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Guy in another forum said his Sweetwater rep is now saying early January too.

Initial delay was because production was being moved to a new factory complex. Haven't heard if that's the reason this time or not, but it would be reasonable to assume that it is.

I'm mildly interested in the product, but can easily wait until... whenever.

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#2892947 - 11/28/17 03:23 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bill H.]
GRollins Offline
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As far as I know, no one's mentioned that theirs has come in.

Grey
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#2892950 - 11/28/17 03:35 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
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My guess ...
There´s NAMM and there´s Musikmesse ...

They will come up w/ the final product then.

I expect the same for Tom Oberheim´s SEM-X (and hope both will complement well !)

A.C.

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#2892956 - 11/28/17 04:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
Marzzz Online   content
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It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.

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#2892963 - 11/28/17 05:45 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.


Why this was our very last NAMM show 01/17
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#2892966 - 11/28/17 06:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
U.Honey Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.


I doubt that there are software bugs. It’s a copy of Moog model D. Did the original have any software? I know it has the midi and USB interfaces but that’s not a lot of software.

Hardware bugs, that makes sense.
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#2892967 - 11/28/17 06:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
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Maybe osc 2 will not stay in tune. razz
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#2892975 - 11/28/17 06:59 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
GRollins Offline
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I believe I saw something to the effect that the reason one of the early demo videos only played long, droning pads was that there were MIDI Note Off issues. Don't see offhand why that should be difficult to fix, but maybe there's something that's not immediately obvious.

If the Behringer truly is a straight adaptation of the original Moog Model D schematic, then the hardware issues should be minimal to none. This isn't some freaky, cutting edge, 21st Century technological wonder...it's a 50 year-old, proven design. Some of the semiconductors (e.g. E112 JFET) might be difficult to source, but Moog themselves will have had to address the same problems when they came out with their reissue, so basically it will come down to replacing one part with another with similar specs. None of the parts are being driven anywhere close to their limits, so there should be any number of candidate replacements. The bean-counters will want to weigh in as to which parts are most economical, but it's not for lack of pieces-parts to substitute.

Hell, the circuit isn't all that complicated. If I wasn't up to my hips in alligators, I'd build one or two, myself. I like etching circuit boards.

To be honest, I'd probably "improve" things a bit. One of the obvious, easy things would be simply to use 1% (okay, okay, maybe 2% to save a few pennies) metal film resistors throughout the circuit, instead of carbon comp. True the original had a few 1% in critical spots, but might as well do 'em all. 741 opamps are execrable. Replace them with something better. Yes, purists will argue that changing those out might change the sound, the magic, but why not give it a try? Use THAT 300 Series matched bipolars, etc. etc. etc. There are all kinds of things that I could do, since I wouldn't be answerable to an accounting department. It'd be fun.

I'd better stop. If I keep this up, I'm going to talk myself into tackling this as a project and I absolutely cannot commit myself to more stuff at this time. I've still got the master bath to finish, a desk top that I'm finishing, two guitars that I'm refinishing, plus a half-dozen other things, and that's not counting holiday commitments.

Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...

Grey
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#2893047 - 11/29/17 07:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...
So you could sleep 40 of them? grin
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#2893059 - 11/29/17 08:08 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe Muscara]
GRollins Offline
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Dude, I only sleep, at best, 4-5 hours a night. Average is closer to 3-4. Today I'm running on about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of sleep. Makes it hard to remember things; my short term memory is for shit (ask my wife--sometimes it's funny--sometimes it's not). Sometimes I get pretty grumpy, although I try to remain aware of my attitude and tamp down on extremes, knowing that it's often 80% my fault.

If, somehow, I were to miraculously have more time in my days, I doubt it would make much difference in my sleep patterns, although I could always cross fingers and hope.

Grey
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#2893107 - 11/29/17 11:29 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe Muscara Offline
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When I don't get enough sleep, I get pretty miserable. The numbers you state would make me awful to be around. So I take naps when I can and need to. idk
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#2893207 - 11/30/17 01:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe Muscara]
GRollins Offline
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Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.

Incidentally, I wrote Behringer directly at about the same time that I started this thread. I received one of those form letter responses, acknowledging that they had received my note and assigning me a Case Number. Their form letter promised a response "within one business day." So far...nothing.

Since this thread hasn't been inundated with "I got mine a week ago" posts, I'm assuming that there aren't UPS trucks trundling down the road, bursting with synths.

Well, okay, maybe there are, but they're not Behringer Model Ds.

Grey
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#2893211 - 11/30/17 02:43 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Marzzz Online   content
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I actually waited four years for a [insert relatively famous high end VA synth], including two years after I made my “final” payment, and have seen various kickstarter projects deliver a year or more after the promised date. Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).

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#2893218 - 11/30/17 04:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).


Yeah, I'm sure you knew the risk going in - but it still sucks. Sorry about that.

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#2893235 - 11/30/17 06:25 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
joegerardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. Do you snore unless you're on your side?

Ask your doc. I've been going through that for about 40 years - to the point of stumbling tired - and never went to the doctor about it because one more medical thing and I would lose my medical, and thus my pilot's license, so once BasicMed came out for pilots, first thing I did was a home sleep study. Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now, and while it's only a bit better than before, it's because it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it. The new machines have WiFi, so you can report on it and they make changes pretty much on the fly.

..Joe
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#2893245 - 11/30/17 07:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: joegerardi]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. ......Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now....... it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it.

..Joe


Sleep apnea is a condition that can cause serious health issues. I was diagnosed 4 years ago (waking 45 times per hour). Thought I was losing my mind prior to treatment.

It takes time to get used to the machine but I sleep quite well now and wake feeling rested, even when I only get 6 hours sleep. I feel like I got my life back.

Get a sleep study to be sure.
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#2893251 - 11/30/17 07:30 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bif_]
GRollins Offline
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One problem...I don't snore. No breathing difficulties whatsoever. I've been this way since I was a child. My mother was frantic to get me to sleep and keep me that way. She even made triple-thick curtains (this being back in the era when housewives did such things) in an attempt to block the morning sunlight. It made no difference. She'd come in to wake me in the mornings and I'd already be up, playing with my Legos. Drove her crazy. It got a little better during my teen years. When other teens were doing the typical ten hours of sleep and having to be dragged from bed, I got up to a "normal" eight hours or so. By age twenty, I was back on the decline--six to seven. It's been a long, slow progression since then. There was a blip back when I was getting divorced. At that time, I was firmly into six hours per night, but the stress of the divorce drove me down to four. Once the divorce was over, I rebounded back to six and resumed my slow slope downwards. These days, my typical sleep pattern is two to four hours of sleep, awake for two to four, then, maybe a nap of an hour or two if I'm lucky. Then I'm in motion.

Oddly, other than my short term memory, I function at least as well as the people around me. I'm used to it. My wife's used to it. The kids think nothing of it. I have other peculiarities, they're just not as apparent. The standing joke is that I'm some sort of alien, not a human.

They say Thomas Edison got by on virtually no sleep and what he got was mostly catnaps. I do not claim his genius, but I can see his way of life more clearly than that of so-called normal peoples'.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (11/30/17 10:29 AM)
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#2893258 - 11/30/17 07:57 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax
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#2893264 - 11/30/17 08:14 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
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Told you I had short term memory problems...

Honestly, I was hoping against hope that someone would pop up and say that their D had come in, but they'd forgotten to mention it here. Obviously, that hasn't happened, so I'm assuming that everyone's in a holding pattern.

No one's mentioned any news, either.

Given that normal, spoken conversations over beer and pizza tend to range hither, thither, and yon, I've never expected threads to stay tightly focused. Indeed, it would be positively odd if they did. The only real exception I can think of is lectures of one sort or another, where one person has unquestioned sway. I certainly don't see that this thread deserves to be a lecture in any sense. I'm open to what others have to say about the D, or other things perhaps, if the conversation drifts.

I'm prepping a guitar to shoot some lacquer, so I'll be in and out of the thread as I wander past my PC.

Grey
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#2893265 - 11/30/17 08:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
J. Dan Online   content
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They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893278 - 11/30/17 09:02 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
dsetto Offline
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on the OT: I've read that before electricity, sleeping in two chunks was a thing.
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.

One day soon, you'll be enjoying it in parallel with your LP. It's their 2nd synth; and their 1st of this kind. There'll be bumps. And your plan is good.

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#2893307 - 11/30/17 10:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
Marzzz Online   content
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax

In other words, a fairly typical thread...

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#2893311 - 11/30/17 10:17 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.


True, that...

Grey
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#2893313 - 11/30/17 10:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: dsetto
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.


Touche.

You actually made me chuckle out loud with that one, something I rarely do.

And, no, before anyone asks, I haven't been losing sleep over the D.

(That's not to say that women with D busts haven't caused me to lose sleep, but...well...perhaps the less said about that, the better.)

Grey
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#2893316 - 11/30/17 10:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dsetto Offline
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Is what the D was? And if missed, it was then hammered in with this generation's mooger-this, phatty that. ... Apt for Fall 2017's assault on the assaulter. But, I digress.

I know you haven't been losing sleep over that D. Thanks for laughing. The auto-smiley emoticon follow-up was a let-down.

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#2893364 - 11/30/17 12:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Okay, here's today's Fun Fact:

According to MF, the expected ship date is now...

1/5/18.

Yep. Eight days nearer.

Somebody pop me some popcorn. I'm gonna make a game of this, watching the ship date slide back and forth.

Actually, an earlier ship date is the last thing I expected.

Glad I wasn't planning on giving one as a Christmas present or anything.

Grey
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#2893368 - 11/30/17 12:25 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
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They just did that so that people will place orders with them, thinking they'll get it a week earlier, and are just hoping they won't be pissed off when it doesn't actually ship by then.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893491 - 12/01/17 05:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Well, I guess Behringer doesn't get the coveted Amazingly Fast Customer Service Reward(tm). I wrote them on Tuesday and got an automated response saying they would respond within one (1) day...it's now been three (3) days and even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.

Grey
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#2893492 - 12/01/17 05:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.


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#2893547 - 12/01/17 10:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Well, I guess Behringer doesn't get the coveted Amazingly Fast Customer Service Reward(tm). I wrote them on Tuesday and got an automated response saying they would respond within one (1) day...it's now been three (3) days and even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.

Grey


No, you don't get it. Their response saying they would respond is their response. cop
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#2893687 - 12/02/17 02:50 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
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If we're using their automated response time, then, yeah...they did pretty well...like 0.39 mS or so. If a human-generated response was the desired result, then the clock is still ticking. (Not that I necessarily expect an answer on a Saturday, but I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)

It'd still be kinda nice to be able to download an owner's manual.

Grey
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#2893689 - 12/02/17 03:04 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins


...like 0.39 mS or so. If a human-generated response was the desired result, then the clock is still ticking.


That difference is what I call latency.

Maybe some human driver issue or IRQ sharing might be the culprit.

crazy

A.C.

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#2893692 - 12/02/17 03:10 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
... I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)
Grey


Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering when I might get a response to my email that starts and ends with

Dear Gibson:
F*ck you!

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#2893721 - 12/02/17 07:42 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: GRollins
... I routinely get responses from Gibson on Sundays, so you never know--seems like that's Gibson's "catch up on mail" day.)
Grey


Thanks for the heads up. I was wondering when I might get a response to my email that starts and ends with

Dear Gibson:
F*ck you!


Maybe Gibson only browse their spam folder on the 4th Sunday of the month.
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#2895661 - 12/13/17 10:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
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...And speaking of Behringer synths...

The Model D ship date has gone from 1/5/18 to 1/12/18 at Musician's Friend.

Be sure to stay tuned for our next exciting episode of As The Behringer Turns!

Grey
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#2895662 - 12/13/17 10:55 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Oh, and I still haven't heard back from Behringer. I wrote them on 11/28 (a Tuesday, in case you were wondering) and got an automated reply that said they would respond "within one business day." Maybe they take an unusually long holiday break...like, from Thanksgiving to New Years, leading to their first business day being 1/2/18.

In the meantime, the crickets have died of old age. Their grandchildren are far more cynical and refuse to chirp for anyone.

Grey
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#2896039 - 12/15/17 02:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Today is 12/15/17--the day my Behringer Model D was supposed to ship, as of the day I ordered it.

Guys & gals, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but we're gonna have to pool our pennies and buy an entire popcorn factory. Our first acquisition when we get around to diversifying should probably be a cricket farm.

Why, you ask?

Well, it's like this--as of 05:05 this morning, Musician's Friend says the anticipated shipping date for the Behringer Model D is...wait for it...

3/1/18

I mean, like, wow. Holy cow.

I'm all for looking on the bright side: At least my credit card hasn't been charged, right? And it will give us conversational fodder for a while. A long while.

For the record, as of this moment:
Sweetwater says: "The Behringer D analog synthesizer module is expected to begin shipping in early 2018...we'll get ready to ship your Behringer D as early as we can!"

Guitar Center says: 1/12/18 (interesting--in the past they've tracked more closely with MF [they're the same company]--I'm going to assume that their website simply hasn't been updated yet.)

So what's Behringer say? They ain't sayin' nuthin'. Mum's the word. They still don't admit that the thing exists.

Wonder if Santa will be able to bring me one this time next year.

Grey
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#2896055 - 12/15/17 05:12 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dje31 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 200
Maybe Behringer, being a European company, is simply using the European standard for date format...as in 3 January, 2018?

Doubt it, but hey, hope springs eternal.

This is why, years ago, I personally adopted the computer standard, which is also commonly used in Japan and other Asian areas: YYYY.MM.DD

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#2896061 - 12/15/17 06:12 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dje31]
GRollins Offline
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The longer the delays go on, the more it tips the scales towards problems with the unit, rather than simple production bottlenecks. I remember seeing a shipping date in November, for sure, although I don't remember the specific date. I have a vague notion (possibly wrong) that there was at least one target shipping date as early as October. If they were actually producing working Model Ds, however slowly, we'd have seen a few in the field by now.

As mentioned before, there are two basic categories for problems with the unit itself: hardware or software. By hardware, I mean the electronics, not the sheet metal, knobs, or wooden end caps. Those should all be fairly straightforward sourcing matters.

However...I would like to introduce a dark horse candidate for the delay: A cease & desist order from Moog to Behringer.

I'm not sure what nature this would take. The patents have long since expired. You could argue about trademarks, perhaps, but calling it simply a "D" should be a simple enough work-around. Moog has never made any sort of non-keyboard version of the Model (like the Voyager RME) that I know of, though perhaps that information simply didn't filter over into my world as a bass player. Assuming that to be the case, I can't see that a lawyer could argue that there would be product confusion in the marketplace. But lawyers are inventive people and they may have come up with an angle they think will work.

Ironically, should a cease & desist order be what's behind the delays, I'd be just as happy to see Moog win, even if it meant that I wouldn't get my Behringer D. Sure, it'd be fun to have a cheap Model D clone, but I'd actually root for the home team (Moog Central is just an hour or two up the road from me). I like the company and want them to stay afloat.

What we need is a Wikileaks regarding synth secrets.

Grey
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#2896063 - 12/15/17 06:31 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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This made me chuckle: Just got a Backorder Notification from Musician's Friend regarding the Model D:

"We have yet to receive the out of stock item(s) noted below, but we have more on order with the manufacturer. We will ship them to you as soon as we receive them. We sincerely appreciate your patience."

That's about the fourth one of those, so far.

I don't think it's worth speculating about the word "more," although it seems to imply that they received some at some earlier point in time. It'll just be a boilerplate letter that they send out when something can't be shipped.

Well at least MF is communicating with us, even if Behringer can't be bothered to do so. (Still no reply to my query with Behringer, though they promised a response within one business day. Nothing public that I'm aware of, though if they tweet or something I'll be the last to know--don't have a Twitter account.)

Grey
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#2896070 - 12/15/17 07:00 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 604
Glad I went for the Roland SE02. I received it three month ago. Love it. The first batch was sold out very quickly in Europe.

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#2896076 - 12/15/17 07:17 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: TomKittel]
GRollins Offline
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Brag, brag, brag...

(Man, if this goes on much longer, I may join you in that decision.)

Grey
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#2896087 - 12/15/17 08:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Saw this blog post, and thought of the one person on the forum who cares about this thing. wink

Who will get one first? US or European customers?
http://www.synthanatomy.com/2017/12/fina...id-january.html
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#2896100 - 12/15/17 08:53 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
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Judging from a Behringer Model D thread I saw here a couple of months ago, there's a lot of interest in this li'l booger. I'd be quite surprised if I'm the only one here who put in an order. I'm more than willing to take point, keeping track of the weirdness surrounding The Phantom Model D, even if it leads to others being amused at my expense.

Me? I find it rather odd that Behringer--say what you will about their track record as a company--would handle things the way they have. In my own way, I'm deriving amusement by trying to fit the random pieces of the puzzle together.

Grey
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#2896106 - 12/15/17 09:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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On another forum, somebody brought up nostalgia, and I thought of the curious practicing of relicing in the guitarist community, which led to a side business idea - a Moog clone relicing service!

For a reasonable fee, I will scratch, dent, etc. your Moog clone to make it look old! As my business expands, I'll offer more service options like the Keith Emerson Special.






(... "only person interested" was a joke....)
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#2896111 - 12/15/17 09:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
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You're gonna need a lot of knives for that Keith Emerson Special, but I daresay that you're going to have a lot of fun producing them. Good for lowering frustration levels.

(Fantasize your ex-boss/spouse/what have you...Take that and that and that...)

Grey
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#2896122 - 12/15/17 11:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
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Quote:
The longer the delays go on, the more it tips the scales towards problems with the unit, rather than simple production bottlenecks.


It might also have something to do with the new assembly line they were supposed to bring online in Oct or Nov of this year. Unfortunately, I can't find any information re. what was supposed to be assembled on it, or if they finished yet. I do recall hearing it was behind schedule.
_________________________
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#2896124 - 12/15/17 11:15 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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When I was a kid, the letters "LOL" meant "Lots Of Luck." Now I gather that it means "Laugh Out Loud."

Musician's Friend currently says 1/12/18 (again)

"LOL"

And I mean it both ways...

Grey

P.S.: Where's my bloody popcorn? This is like some sort of sports game thingy, where the ball moves up and down the field/calendar. "My" team is on this end of the calendar. The opposition keeps trying to move the date to the far end. To be honest, I think the other team's winning. You say we're out of popcorn? Ate it all up? Really? Rats. Got any corn chips? Beer? If there's no beer left, can I have a wee dram of single malt?
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#2896125 - 12/15/17 11:15 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
WesG Offline
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Roland: VR-09
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#2896137 - 12/15/17 12:55 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
You're gonna need a lot of knives for that Keith Emerson Special, but I daresay that you're going to have a lot of fun producing them. Good for lowering frustration levels.


Yes, that is why I won't be able to offer it as a service initially. First I have to grow my company, expand staff and resources, etc. before I can offer the special at a true Artisanal level of service.
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#2896142 - 12/15/17 01:05 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: WesG


Yikes. Looks like you're onto something. That's not just a random strike, it's one that directly affects Behringer. The date on the article is back in August, but that could definitely be relevant, even if things have since been resolved. If they're not resolved, then I'd say you might have hit the nail on the head.

I'm short on time at the moment, but I'll try to get back to this later.

Thanks.

Grey
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#2896144 - 12/15/17 01:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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Grey: you are obsessing.

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#2896146 - 12/15/17 01:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Yes, that is why I won't be able to offer it as a service initially. First I have to grow my company, expand staff and resources, etc. before I can offer the special at a true Artisanal level of service.


Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I was never a big fan of tearing up equipment, a la Pete Townshend smashing guitars or Keith stabbing Hammonds with knives. I always cringe when that sort of thing goes on, but there are people who love it.

Grey
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#2896147 - 12/15/17 01:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Grey: you are obsessing.


If some is good, then more is better, and too much is just enough!

There was a time when I could have obsessed just a little teeny tiny bit about Cher.

Did you pick up some beer on the way over?

Grey
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#2896170 - 12/15/17 03:36 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
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I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey
_________________________
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#2896196 - 12/15/17 06:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Tom Williams Offline
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Posts: 1016
Loc: West Virginia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
He didn't break the good ones -- it was only spinets without scanner chorus. A, B, and C models were probably too heavy to pull down on top of himself.
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#2896203 - 12/15/17 08:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3135
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.
_________________________
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#2896204 - 12/15/17 08:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Tom Williams]
mate stubb Offline
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10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16251
Originally Posted By: Tom Williams
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Keith Emerson probably single-handedly depleted the world supply of Hammonds by 10% by destroying them during concerts. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
He didn't break the good ones -- it was only spinets without scanner chorus. A, B, and C models were probably too heavy to pull down on top of himself.


Exactly. The world is not pining for more L-100s. I think hundreds of thousands were built.
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---
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#2896227 - 12/16/17 05:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
RichieP_MechE Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 1065
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: WesG
It might also have something to do with the new assembly line they were supposed to bring online in Oct or Nov of this year. Unfortunately, I can't find any information re. what was supposed to be assembled on it, or if they finished yet. I do recall hearing it was behind schedule.

This is pretty much right - see the last paragraph of this forum post from Uli Behringer - clonk

Originally Posted By: Uli Behringer
P.S. The Model D production has been delayed due to our massive factory move which was more challenging than we had estimated. We are confident to ship the first few hundred units from our factory by yearend, however full mass production will move into Q1 next year.

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#2896247 - 12/16/17 10:27 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RichieP_MechE]
Marzzz Online   content
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Registered: 11/24/00
Posts: 2570
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I have a Mini Reissue and I am extremely happy with it, but I have to say regarding the Behringer D, "not bad at all..."


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#2896260 - 12/16/17 11:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.


So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how? In reference to what? I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning.

(Not that the ability to report news from something that hasn't happened yet makes sense, either...)

Grey
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#2896265 - 12/16/17 12:03 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RichieP_MechE]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: RichieP_MechE
This is pretty much right - see the last paragraph of this forum post from Uli Behringer - clonk

Originally Posted By: Uli Behringer
P.S. The Model D production has been delayed due to our massive factory move which was more challenging than we had estimated. We are confident to ship the first few hundred units from our factory by yearend, however full mass production will move into Q1 next year.



Thanks for posting that in this thread as well as the "...At It Again" thread. I saw your other post just as we were about to leave to go see Star Wars and wasn't able to pursue matters until I got back. You saved me the trouble of cross referencing your other post.

Given that he was quoting a backlog of 20k units as of August (I think it was August), and that even more people have placed orders since then, I have to wonder what the projected rate of production is. Looks to be many hundreds per day. I hope their QC is up to the task.

Grey
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#2896267 - 12/16/17 12:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
AND THE BALL MOVES NEARER!

Score one for our team!

MF is back to saying 1/12/18.

(Actually, I'm kinda thinking that the projected ship date is on a random number generator that triggers about once an hour.)

Want some chips? Here...

Grey
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#2896290 - 12/16/17 04:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
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Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3442
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Quote:
So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how?


Maybe the person who wrote the article was Chinese?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Wes
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
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#2896297 - 12/16/17 05:54 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: WesG
Quote:
So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how?


Maybe the person who wrote the article was Chinese?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Wes


I confess to puzzlement.

It's all a plot to destabilize Western democracy. Those wily Chinese will have us all scratching our heads before this is over.

Grey
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#2896301 - 12/16/17 06:34 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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Registered: 12/27/12
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Originally Posted By: GRollins

I confess to puzzlement.

obviously
Originally Posted By: GRollins

It's all a plot to destabilize Western democracy. Those wily Chinese will have us all scratching our heads before this is over.



not trying to be a step in moderator here but these kind of posts are clearly against forum rules and don't belong on this or any other thread. Stop now.
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#2896306 - 12/16/17 07:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3135
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: GRollins
Originally Posted By: Markay
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I've just realized something--the dateline on the article provided by WesG was 8/12/17, yet the strike it references took place on 12/6.

Possibilities:
1) Time is non-linear in China. Come to think of it, this sounds plausible.
2) The strike took place last year (or even earlier) and they took sixteen months to report it. Shame.
3) Their technology is so advanced that they've developed a time machine and can report on the future.

Eurotec Electronics also makes products for Brentwood Appliances (kitchen stuff--can be found at Walmart), in fact, Brentwood appears to dominate their output. As far as I can tell Music Group/Behringer does not own Eurotec. This tends to lean towards my outsourcing hypothesis.

And in other news...
MF is now back to saying 3/1/17.

The opposition is winning. Boo. Hiss.

Pass the corn chips.

Grey


These Model D threads have more fantasy and mangled facts that any thread at KC in living memory.

Here is the quote from the first para:

" 08/12/2017

About one hundred workers at Eurotec Electronics in the southern manufacturing city of Zhongshan went on strike on 6 December in protest at dangerous working conditions. See photo below."

So to be clear the article is dated the 8th of December discussing an event that occurred on the 6th of December.

So time in China works the same as it does in the rest of the world.


So the 8/12/17 date just kinda snuck in there...how? In reference to what? I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning.

(Not that the ability to report news from something that hasn't happened yet makes sense, either...)

Grey

FFS

Many in the rest of the world use the - day/month/year format

In the US - month/day/year is used.

Get it?
_________________________
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"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend

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#2896308 - 12/16/17 08:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
not trying to be a step in moderator here but these kind of posts are clearly against forum rules and don't belong on this or any other thread. Stop now.


Who am I offending and how?

The Behringer Model D is being manufactured in China. Chinese people live in China, which is kind of the point of being Chinese. The news article referencing a strike at a plant that manufactures at least some of Behringer's units (which may or may not include the Model D--unclear) was written (as near as I can tell) by an NGO that is based in, or at least reports on, labor conditions in China--again referencing China and the inhabitants thereof, the Chinese people; possibly even staffed by Chinese people.

Is it against forum rules to reference China or the Chinese people? Boy, that's going to be awkward, given that virtually everything is made in China these days. (Okay, okay...some in Korea, Hong Kong...but an awful lot of everything comes from China.)

I would think that it's obvious from context that my statement about destabilizing Western democracy is clearly tongue in cheek. No matter how upset a subset of the world's people we commonly refer to as "Western" get...well, wait, it's much smaller than that, because the group is really only going to be comprised of keyboard players who play electronic music, and to limit it further, electronic keyboard players who happen to like Moog-style synthesizers, and have available funds to buy a $300 unit...etc. etc. etc. Anyway, by the time you filter it down, it's clearly a pretty limited segment of the population at large. Not a particularly large, powerful segment, mind you, mostly just some average guys and gals who want to play music on a reproduction analog synth.

You really, truly took me seriously that some 20,000 (as of August but, okay, let's double that, since orders are still coming in) irate musicians are going to rise up and start a revolution? Over production delays on a synthesizer?

Strong with the Force, these players must be!

Or is it the word "wily" that's upset you? Mr. Google says that wily means: "skilled at gaining an advantage, especially deceitfully." Ah! Maybe we're onto something here, and yet...and yet...since the sentence immediately preceding the one referenced was clearly meant humorously, surely wily would reasonably be taken as being more along the lines of Wil E. Coyote, aka Wily Coyote--i.e. also humorously.

Which leads us to the blowoff phrase, "scratching our heads," which must be rather a letdown after such a fearsome buildup, yes? If it all comes down to scratching our heads, nothing more, then surely it's no more than a tempest in a teapot.

Again...who has been offended, and how?

Aw, what the hell, let's do this: I hereby formally apologize to any and all peoples, be they Chinese or otherwise, wily or otherwise, attempting to destabilize Western democracy or otherwise, up to and including head scratchers or otherwise (...oh, wait...could head scratching be an indication that we have lice? Yuk. Okay, now that is insulting.) who might (or might not) have taken offense at my attempt at humor.

There. Did I miss anyone? Anything? Do we need subparagraphs, clauses, and other such legalistic embellishments or will that soothe any potentially ruffled feathers?

Gracious.

Of all the things we're losing these days, I find myself missing humor the most.

Grey

P.S.: Man, now that I brought up head lice, I'm feeling all grossed out and itchy. Here's hoping it's just psychosomatic. But I was at the theater today watching Star Wars and maybe there were critters on the seat, and...now I just feel nasty all over. Eeewwwww!
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896310 - 12/16/17 08:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: Markay
FFS

Many in the rest of the world use the - day/month/year format

In the US - month/day/year is used.

Get it?


There seems to be an outbreak of bad temper around these parts. I'd better go get my inoculation shot--don't want to catch anything.

According to the map in the Wikipedia article referenced above, China is yellow, which, if you read the legend, translates as "YMD."

Thus, 8/12/17 would render as:
2008
December
17th

I don't mind the December part so much, but as I write this, it's still the 16th here...but wait...China's over the International Date Line, so they're already on the 17th. Whew, dodged a bullet there...

So, we've established December the 17th, which is today (as long as you're in China), as the date...

...but...

There's still that pesky 2008 to deal with. It kinda makes things worse, ya know? They (that being the non-Chinese, non-wily, non-destabilizers) have now been demonstrated to have an even more powerful time travel machine, having been able to report on something that wouldn't happen for another nine years.

So...please...don't FFS me until you actually read the "Date format by country" article. It makes matters worse, not better. And being rude doesn't help clarify matters, either.

Jeez.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/16/17 08:32 PM)
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2896311 - 12/16/17 08:52 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3135
Loc: Australia
And so the rant continues with all offense taken.
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"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend

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#2896333 - 12/17/17 02:26 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markay]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
As I mentioned earlier (in this thread? I think so), I am perpetually in sleep deprivation mode. Yesterday I was running on about 3 hours sleep. At the moment, I'm running on about 2 1/2 hours. Hope to get more.

One of my coping strategies for dealing with sleep deprivation is to break a problem down into smaller parts, then focus on one of those parts exclusively. Obviously, people don't understand that. Lots of (most?) people claim that they're pretty good at multitasking. I don't even try to pretend.

(Moe, it's not that I'm obsessed, per se, it's that I'm trying to solve the riddle of Model D production in as linear a manner as possible.)

After a while--and having learned from experience that people don't grok my approach--I try to throw in humor to lighten things up. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. If I was a standup comic, I'd hone my material and play the same show every night, having weeded out what wasn't working. Here, I'm playing to the same crowd every night (including the hecklers) and trying to riff the same jokes over and over wouldn't work. So, I'm perpetually trying new material, so as to ease over the difficulties incidental to my sleep deprivation. Some works. Some doesn't. Same ol' story.

But really...
--Time is non-linear in China?
--Someone (anyone) on this planet has a time machine?
--The strike took place a while back and they're just now reporting it?

Actually that last one is plausible, given that news doesn't always get out of China promptly. But still, the other two...? Anyone who took those seriously should be flogged with a wet noodle. Twice. No, make it three times. This is clearly a serious offense.

NOTE: Me throwing out (attempted) humor does not mean that I've switched tracks and am focusing on that topic. In this case, I was more intent on looking into Eurotec Electronics and made absolutely no attempt to divide my attention--which was already badly fragmented anyway, this being the busiest holiday season we've had in years--I was just noting the date anomaly in passing and trying to make a joke of it. Sure enough, the hecklers didn't laugh, but that's hecklers for you.

All righty, lemme set my attention to this date thing, since it seems that either the issue itself or my treatment of it has raised hackles on the hecklers. (I like alliteration. It amuses me, if no one else. I just nailed three h-words in a row. This is sure to annoy someone, though.)

WARNING: Being forced to shift my attention when I'm focused on something makes me grumpy. You are hereby advised that I may be a) more acerbic than usual, or b) being aware that I'm grumpy when pulled away from what I'm doing, I may attempt more humor to smooth the way. You have been warned.

News of the strike, kindly provided by WesG, came via one "China Labour Bulletin." Never heard of 'em, but that doesn't mean a thing. At first blush, I went with the idea that they were based in mainland China. Stopped there. Didn't want any distractions while I was looking into Eurotec. After I laid down a little while ago, it occurred to me that the honchos in mainland China probably doesn't much care for the sort of reporting that the China Labour Bulletin is doing. Hmmm... So where are they based? The British spelling of "labour" is a hint, but I'm too far into sleep deprivation to try to unravel that thread, so I took the direct approach and looked at the About Us/Contact information and found that they're based in Hong Kong which, being a former British colony, is consistent with their spelling of labo(u)r. And according to Wikipedia, Hong Kong does indeed use DMY format...sometimes. Apparently, they use DMY when speaking English, but YMD when speaking Chinese. I see multiple opportunities for confusion there, but since I don't live in Hong Kong, I won't have to worry about it very often.

(That's the kind of factoid that I like to throw into stories, so this little diversion may yet serve another purpose. Cool.)

So, here we are, having demonstrated that time isn't necessarily nonlinear in China. (Shouldn't have to do that, but let's be thorough while we're at it.) Can't prove that there's no time machine (you can't prove a negative), but it's seriously unlikely that a hypothetical time machine would be used for the rather trivial purpose of reporting on an obscure strike before it happens. Better to haul it out for something more consequential, like changing the score of a soccer game or killing someone's grandfather. (I hear Vader's dead. Does that mean Kylo Ren will vanish in a puff of smoke?)

Will this satisfy the hecklers? Nah. Probably not. But I'm going back to what I was doing before, regardless.

While Uli says that delays in Model D production are due to a change in venue--and I have no reason to doubt what he says--it might still dovetail with news of the strike that WesG found, in that a factory that's not producing widgets is going to be particularly difficult problem during product (ha! scored not only 3 p-words, but managed p-d-p-d-p...yesssss!) rollout for a back ordered item like the Model D. The chemically-induced health problems at that factory might prove difficult/expensive/time consuming to solve. Plus potential PR pitfall (four P's, I'm on a roll, folks). Solution: Bring the Model D in-house or farm it out to another OEM.

Incidentally, the China Labour Bulletin article said that Eurotec was owned by Music Group, but I couldn't find any notice of it anywhere else. Nor could I find evidence that Music Group is in any way associated with the manufacture or sales of kitchen appliances in, say, the case that they've got a mega-factory with unused capacity that they put to use in manufacturing for others.

I'm tired. I'm going back to bed.
(This, too, will probably bug someone.)

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/17/17 02:31 AM)
_________________________
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#2897467 - 12/22/17 04:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
U.Honey Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 229
Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Now musiciansfriend.com says "Expected to Ship 03-01-2018". That's 1st of March confused
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#2897511 - 12/23/17 02:02 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
The thing I'd like to know is whether all orders are expected to ship on 3/1 (or whenever) or if that date applies to those who order today, with earlier orders being shipped by the 1/12 date.

To date, I have not heard that any have shipped, but other members here sometimes report in from other forums and could have heard news from elsewhere.

Grey
_________________________
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#2897542 - 12/23/17 06:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Rod S Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 3135
Loc: São Paulo, Brasil
Originally Posted By: GRollins
--Time is non-linear in China?

Gearing a bit off topic ... I saw an article some time ago about time perception in different countries. Interesting read, and correct from the perspective of the countries I'm familiar with.

Punctuality in Brazil is in general horrible, but it is best where I live (São Paulo). In Rio it's terrible. Punctuality is offensive, and a major source of argument when I'm conducting projects in Rio (where I'm actually from). Northern states are even worse.

I like working with Europeans. Super punctual, straight to the point, no bullshit.

Tons of jokes with Mexicans. "un ratito.." can mean anything.

As far as the data format, since I worked a lot in American Multinational companies, I always write a date as 05/Feb/17 and never as 05/02/17 or 02/05/17. Confusion is guaranteed to ensure if I do.
_________________________
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#2897546 - 12/23/17 06:36 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Rod S]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Well, here's something new:

I've received regular notices from Musician's Friend apologizing for the delay in shipping my D. They've been very good about that. I got another this morning, but this one's format is different from its predecessors. It says, "...we expect to be able to ship your order within 30 days."

Today is Saturday, 12/23/17. A quick glance at the calendar gives a target date of...[Grey mutters under his breath, counts on his fingers, runs out of fingers, starts on toes, runs out of toes, starts over...]...uh, looks like somewhere around 1/22/18. That's a Monday.

Unless they mean thirty business days, in which case all bets are off.

I'm tired of popcorn. Tired of beer. Tired of corn chips. Think I'll start in on eggnog.

Fortified eggnog.

(Can I say that in this thread? I seem to have aroused the ire of another member by not being sufficiently critical of a Famous Musician for doing drugs. Screw it. It's the holidays, it's my thread, and I think I'll have eggnog or perhaps a wee dram sometime later in the day, after I've woken up properly.)

And in the spirit of RodS's observations about cultural notions and expectations regarding time, I will add that I expect to receive my D mañana.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/23/17 06:37 AM)
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2897550 - 12/23/17 07:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3442
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
Rod S - date formats were (are?) a real issue in Canada, since we've traditionally done it the English way, but are located right next to the US.

My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes
_________________________
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#2897557 - 12/23/17 07:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
dje31 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/09/13
Posts: 200
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

That's how I've done it for years...big in a lot of Asia, and the de facto standard in IT.

You can also look at it as an odometer in your car...the furthest right digit changes most often.

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#2897558 - 12/23/17 07:35 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: WesG
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes


I use MM/DD/YY except for my music files, for exactly that reason. I find it easier to sort through them. Yes, I have to shift mental gears, but I'm used to it.

I've had to shift gears between computer center time (24 hr.) and "regular" time (12 hr.) for years. It becomes second nature after a decade or two.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2897559 - 12/23/17 07:47 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: WesG]
SteveCoscia Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 627
Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
Originally Posted By: WesG
My solution - which a lot of IT folks use, maybe others, too -- is YYYYMMDD. Best of all, you can sort on it!

Wes


Yes, that date convention is a favorite. And for the same reason ... sorting.
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#2897564 - 12/23/17 08:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
DulceLabs.com Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 5183
Loc: CLASSIFIED
Originally Posted By: GRollins

MF is back to saying 1/12/18.


Oh man. Now it's pushed back to December 1, 2018??? Oh no, that sucks!

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#2897585 - 12/23/17 09:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: DulceLabs.com]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
What do I care? Mine will ship within thirty days.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2897669 - 12/23/17 06:39 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
DulceLabs.com Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 5183
Loc: CLASSIFIED
Originally Posted By: GRollins
What do I care? Mine will ship within thirty days.


Maths is hard.

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#2897772 - 12/24/17 06:44 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 4372
Loc: out in the sticks
What´s that damn thread all about ?

Not being able to wait until it´s released ?
And if it won´t,- who cares ?
So many options to buy synths these days.

B.t.w.,- when released and available,- I´ll buy one and just only because I´m curious.

A.C.

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#2897777 - 12/24/17 07:24 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16251
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
What´s that damn thread all about ?


Apparently, time runs backwards in China. wink
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---
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http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2897817 - 12/25/17 06:35 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
What´s that damn thread all about ?
A.C.


I don't know about that one, but this one is a running commentary on vague, self-contradictory, and generally confusing product releases. It's not the worst rollout I've ever seen, but you have to admit that it's pretty helter-skelter.

(Guess I just lost my chance at a free ARP 2600, eh?)

As of this morning, Behringer has a product which is available for pre-order yet still doesn't exist according to their website. Uli Behringer himself admits the thing exists, but there's no solid information available, short of a sales sheet he linked to...that's not available via their main website, natch. The sheet does have a little rudimentary information, but there's not much more than what you could deduce from general knowledge about the original Moog Model D. A PDF version of the owner's manual might be a good move.

Currently, Musician's Friend lists March 1st as the shipping date, but that has oscillated back and forth with January 12th so many times I've lost count. Sometimes it's stable for several days in a row. Other times it changes every six hours or so. It's fascinating, in a car wreck, "This is an object lesson in how not to handle a product rollout," sort of way.

I mean, can you imagine being the guy or gal charged with updating the shipping date? Jeez, it must be a full time job.

"Hi, my name's Jill. I work at Musician's Friend."
"Good to meet you, Jill. I like what you've done with your hair. Um, what do you do at Musician's Friend?"
"Oh, I'm the Behringer Anticipated Shipping Date Website Updater! It's, like, a very prestigious position. I'm busy all the time--you have no idea!"
"Let me get you another glass of wine and you can tell me all about it."

I find it curious that Behringer manages to post more information on their website regarding vaporware products (e.g. the ARP 2600, et. al.) than they do for something that's supposedly going to be shipping in the hundreds this week and is expected to achieve full production by next month.

Don't get me wrong. I put money on the line. If the thing's sufficiently interesting, I may get a couple more so as to poly chain, but...really, guys...this is a pretty screwy situation, ya know?

Grey


Edited by GRollins (12/25/17 06:36 AM)
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#2897850 - 12/25/17 08:51 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Josh Paxton Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2059
They officially lost me. Order cancelled, getting an SE-02 instead. The patch memory alone wasn't worth the extra $200. Patch memory plus an extra three months of use, starting with gigs this week, is.
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#2897860 - 12/25/17 09:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Josh Paxton]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
I can understand your point of view. Since I'm not gigging, I can afford the wait. For me, this is just a toy to mess with.

(And a thread where I can poke fun at myself and others in the same situation.)

So how do you like your Roland?

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2897861 - 12/25/17 09:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Josh Paxton]
Karl Schmeer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 214
Loc: State of Misery
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
They officially lost me. Order cancelled, getting an SE-02 instead. The patch memory alone wasn't worth the extra $200. Patch memory plus an extra three months of use, starting with gigs this week, is.


You won't regret this. There are a host of other goodies like
delay FX, LFO options, cross modulation routings, envelope triggering modes and even a step sequencer to show it all off.
None of these on the clone.
Enjoy my friend smile
_________________________
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#2900319 - 01/07/18 02:32 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Karl Schmeer]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
I had some doo-dads I needed, so I tried to place an order with Musician's Friend. Their computer stuck out its tongue at me and said, "I'm gonna sulk today." So I called and talked to a human. Got the order placed, everything's groovy there.

While I had this person on the line (who shall remain nameless in case this is, somehow, top secret information--don't want to get 'em in trouble), I asked about my Behringer Model D. This is what I was told:

MF expects a shipment of Behringer Model Ds in on 1/12/18. The quantity (I was given a figure, but will retain that info, as it might also be secret) is sufficient to meet all back orders, plus leave some available for sale. Given that it takes the warehouse ~24 hours to process incoming stuff and that the 12th is a Friday and that the warehouse is closed on weekends, it will probably be Monday or Tuesday before units actually ship. People should start looking for their Model Ds sometime during the week of 1/16-1/19, depending on shipping distances from the warehouse.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2900892 - 01/09/18 12:42 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 8040
Loc: Ghost Planet
‘Please allow me to clarify that the first batch of Model D’s had arrived at our German retailer Music Store right before yearend, which you can easily verify with them.

The next batch will hopefully leave the factory by end of coming week with some units being air-shipped to the US. The production is still relatively slow due to the fact that each unit takes over 30 minutes to warm up followed by a meticulous one-hour calibration and quality assurance procedure. The electronic-savvy people among you understand that unlike digital synths, producing true analog instruments is a much bigger challenge.

I truly understand your frustration, but we are literally swamped with ten thousands of backorders and we simply need some time to ramp up. We will never rush as quality always comes first.

As you may know, we have recently moved into our new and highly-automated 3 million square-feet plant which has been more challenging than we initially thought, a circumstance that has added to the delay. Moving with over 3,000 people and 800 truck loads of equipment has likely been one of the biggest challenges in my life.
However we are very happy that manufacturing is now fully back up again and our new factory will dramatically increase our efficiency plus lower manufacturing cost – benefits we can then pass on to you the customers.

Thank you for your understanding and amazing support.

Uli’

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#2900897 - 01/09/18 01:01 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: burningbusch]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
The next batch will hopefully leave the factory by end of coming week...


Thanks.

When was that posted?

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2900918 - 01/09/18 02:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 8040
Loc: Ghost Planet

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#2900927 - 01/09/18 02:41 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: burningbusch]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
If you follow the link at the bottom of that post, it takes you to Uli's original post on gearslutz, which indicates that it was posted "six days ago," though I'm not seeing an absolute date. Just as well, as the date would probably be in one of those pesky Chinese date formats.

In any event, six days ago would be on or about 1/3, so "coming week" presumably means this week. That's consistent with what I was told by Musician's Friend.

I also find it interesting to note that the Behringer site has finally admitted that the Model D exists. Go to their main page, then wait for it to scroll across. If you tag the link, you'll find not only information on their Model D, but some history of analog synthesis. Cool.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2901577 - 01/12/18 07:46 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
I'm in the process of (trying to) get a MIDI encoder from midiboutique. It's been a battle. The device I'm getting needs an interface to hook to a PC so it can be programmed; I can also use it to update the OS in my Little Phatty, etc., so it's off to Musician's Friend again. (Might as well put 'em on speed dial.)

While I was on the phone, I asked about the status of the Model D and...you will be thunderstruck to hear that the shipping date (at least for MF) is now next Friday, 1/19/18, instead of today. No info as to why--maybe hung in Customs or something, who knows.

Try to contain your astonishment.

Grey
_________________________
I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2901617 - 01/12/18 09:49 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16251
A few years back I had a Mojo shipping from Italy only to get lost for 2 weeks in a massive snowstorm that shut down their whole country.

Nearly 50 years ago, I ordered a fancy Farfisa and had to wait 6 months - for a keyboard already in production.

I think I have been cured of panting about gear I don't yet have.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2901635 - 01/12/18 10:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
I won a guitar on eBay a year ago. The most expensive single instrument I've ever bought. Hell, after houses and cars, it's probably the most expensive item I've ever bought, period. It got dropped off at UPS and they logged it in. It left the next morning.

And vanished.

After no update to the tracking page for a week, I called UPS. As soon as I gave the woman at UPS Central the tracking number, she instantly said, "It's lost."

Good feeling, that.

I could drag out the story, because it went on for quite a while, but the thing suddenly turned up after an internal tracking investigation was initiated. Just mysteriously bubbled to the surface and started moving again. Got here in perfect condition. Yay! But, man, there were some anxious moments.

What happened? Who knows. Maybe it got stuck in a corner and forgotten. Maybe the truck got stuck in the snow (big snow storm out west during that time period--though the UPS lady said there were codes to indicate weather problems--none of those were flagged). Maybe someone got fancy ideas and tried to take it home. Beyond my ken.

This D thing is comparatively low stakes. It's a current mass production item (well...supposedly) and will eventually get here. It's just fun to watch the game.

I'm intending two experiments once it gets here:
1) Slave it off the Little Phatty, either in parallel with all five oscillators running simultaneously, or poly chain.
2) Attach it semi-permanently to the (ex-Kurzweil) Fatar keybed as a more dedicated kind of thing.

The LP is easy. The Fatar saga is dragging on and on and on (over two weeks so far and presumably at least another week or two to go, bare minimum). There's no telling how that will play out, but I'm glad to have the LP (the MM8, I guess, would be another option, but it's hooked to the Motif rack dingus) on hand so as to be able to get some good out of the D when it gets here.

Somebody pass the popcorn.

Grey
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#2904054 - 01/22/18 03:51 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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I've been ignoring a lot of the back and forth regarding the Behringer Model D shipping dates because...well...I'm kinda 50% bored, 50% exasperated with the whole thing.

But...

I thought I'd share this one. I just got an email from Musician's Friend saying that the new anticipated date is 3/6/18. Just for giggles, I'd like to note that the date given on MF's Model D page is 2/27. So which is it, guys?

I saw a note from Uli on another site claiming that they're producing 200 units a day. So where are those units going? Who the hell knows? I'm not seeing reports that anyone has received theirs yet. I did see a post from someone who claimed that they had placed their order last June (maybe July...one of those "J" months, anyway) and that they have yet to see theirs.

Grey
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#2904061 - 01/22/18 04:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bill H. Offline
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200 a day translates into what... maybe 5000-6000 a month if all goes well? And if it's backordered 20,000-30,000 units as reported - well, you can see where this is going.

The bottleneck has been reported by Mr. B himself to be the burn-in and calibration routine before packaging. Pure speculation on my part, but could it be more time consuming and labor intensive than originally projected?

It would not surprise me if there's a price jump to reflect that after the initial orders are filled.

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#2904071 - 01/22/18 06:00 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bill H.]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill H.
It would not surprise me if there's a price jump to reflect that after the initial orders are filled.


This is why I went ahead and ordered one, rather than waiting. No one has said anything of the sort--at least that I've seen--but the relatively low price point, added to the fact that I was able to get a sale percentage that Musician's Friend was offering at the time, made it seem like it would be a fun toy to add to my kit. I knew that I'd hate myself if the price went up $100 later.

I drew the line at ordering multiple units because I wasn't able to verify at the time that the Model D would actually poly chain. I've since seen a (very)rudimentary poop sheet that indicates that it will, but I'm not willing to commit more money at this time to a vaporware product that seems to always be two weeks away (at best...MF now says six...).

The thing is an ongoing shaggy dog story.

Really.

Where the hell are those 200 units a day going? Are they stuck in Customs? Are they stockpiling them, with the intention of shipping 20,000 units on the same day, so as not to play favorites with Sweetwater or Musician's Friend or whoever? Are they shipping them to Antarctica for the penguins to play with? Where are they?

Note that Uli claims that some units have already been shipped to a retailer in Europe. No one seems to be posting that they've got one and either love or hate it (pick one). Where did the next batch go? And the one after that? He seems to indicate that units are actively being shipped...and yet...and yet...

I dunno. The whole thing seems to be pretty screwy from my perspective. Uli keeps saying "thanks for your patience" and "we're doing the best we can" and so forth, but there are still questions that I regard as unanswered. Musician's Friend is a well known business. Ditto for Behringer (yes, some people hate them, but they're well known and have been around for a while). But...something's kinda "off" here. I'm at two months and counting for my order. I've seen numerous posts where people have been waiting substantially longer than I have. No one seems to have gotten their product yet--even some of the very first people in line. There don't seem to be any hard facts, anywhere. You'd like to think that something Uli says is factual, yet the delivery dates keep slipping and the units that are being manufactured are apparently falling into a black hole and there are lots of things that just don't make sense.

And I'm getting very, very tired of popcorn.

Grey
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#2904073 - 01/22/18 06:27 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
the delivery dates keep slipping and the units that are being manufactured are apparently falling into a black hole and there are lots of things that just don't make sense.

And I'm getting very, very tired of popcorn.

Grey


good thing you didn't order a Tesla Model 3. laugh snax
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#2904076 - 01/22/18 06:46 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
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Yep...stuck with internal combustion for the time being.

Grey
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#2904093 - 01/22/18 08:16 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Josh Paxton Offline
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All I know is, my SE-02 sounds great.
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#2904094 - 01/22/18 08:18 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bill H.]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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Originally Posted By: Bill H.

It would not surprise me if there's a price jump to reflect that after the initial orders are filled.


were it a publicly held company I would agree. The fact that it is not and all this is a labor of love I would not expect a price increase. Of course, this is only speculation. YMMV.
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#2904098 - 01/22/18 08:26 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Josh Paxton]
GRollins Offline
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Up until tonight's email, I had kinda had the SE-02 in mind as a Plan B...but only as a distant, theoretical possibility. I have to admit that it looks a little less theoretical now. I'll stay the course for a bit longer, but...I'm finding it difficult to reconcile the things that Uli is saying with the observed facts, ya know?

Grey
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#2904100 - 01/22/18 10:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Josh Paxton]
Josh Paxton Offline
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
All I know is, my SE-02 sounds great.


I misspoke; that's actually not all I know. I also know that the gigs I'll have done with the SE-02 between when I got it and March 6 will pay for the price difference between it and the D. laugh
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#2904108 - 01/23/18 02:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Josh Paxton]
GRollins Offline
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Given that I have absolutely zero chance of finding like-minded musicians in my area with which to form a band and play gigs (plus the fact that my keyboard skills are still rudimentary; I'd end up on bass anyway), anything I pay out for musical gear--particularly keyboards--is simply coming out of my wallet. The less I pay, the less I pay, so to speak.

That said, if something simply isn't available, then hypothetical lower prices are just that--hypothetical. Might as well make up an even lower retail price, say $100, and tout an even greater imaginary savings...

Grey


Edited by GRollins (01/23/18 02:22 AM)
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#2904115 - 01/23/18 03:38 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
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#2904141 - 01/23/18 06:44 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: TomKittel]
GRollins Offline
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So what does "Ordered, Delivery date: Feb 10, 2018" mean? Does that mean that if you order one, you can expect to see it on, or by, Feb. 10th, or does it mean that they've got some on order and expect to receive them then? If the latter, then that's little better than the vague promises we've seen here in the US.

E293.30 + VAT + shipping would be at least as much as an SE-02 by the time it got here to the US. VAT's horrible--like 20%--much higher than the sales tax rates I'm accustomed to.

Given that Musician's Friend regularly has sales, then the SE-02 can probably be gotten for less. The last I looked, MF was offering 12% on some things. Granted, I've (supposedly) got the Behringer going for even better than that--I think they were offering 15% ca. Thanksgiving--so there's still going to be over $100 difference, no matter what.

Crap, I've forgotten where I was going with that (short term memory shorted out)...

Okay, try this: As I've noted, this is all part of a (possibly foolish) Grand Master Plan, wherein I get a durawowsler (that's kinda like a whatchamacallit, but moreso--I'll explain later) from the midiboutique people (another long, drawn-out FUBAR) to extract a MIDI signal from the Fatar keybed from the Kurzweil, thereby creating a MIDI controller of my own design. That, in turn, will drive either:
a) The Yamaha Motif XS rack (okay, maybe not, I kinda like using the MM8 to control this, but it's still an option).
b) The Behringer Model D (okay, maybe not, given that it's always mañana...).
c) The Behringer Model D in poly chain mode (see b, above).
d) A Moog Voyager RME (lots more money, but super cool).
e) All of the above, with some sort of MIDI switching doo-dad to select between the sundry sound engines.

The common thread between a-e being that they all lack keyboards--being intended to mate with my personal vaporware Fatar project. If I get an SE-02, then I'm buying a keyboard, which I don't really have room for at the moment. (I've already got a rack, so anything I can rack mount is "free" in terms of floor space.)

The A-100 is quite narrow on top (~7.75" if I recall correctly), so it's not a stable platform for anything much deeper than that. And, no, I don't want to mar that lovely mahogany by driving screws into it to build a shelf. Add to that the fact that by the time you stick a keyboard that far back & up, it's going to get hard to reach. I play sitting down so I can turn and write what I've come up with into my computer. If I'm willing to reach, though, I think I can get my project MIDI controller up there.

The other option will be to tighten up on the spacing in my Ultimate Support rack. It's already holding the Korg and Yamaha, but I think I can get a third in there. I'll have to reach higher, but not so far back as the top of the A-100.

Or I could just put the blinkin' thing upstairs. Or skyhook it. Or something.

Note that I haven't mentioned the Little Phatty. It just floats around these days, with no permanent home. An SE-02 would fall into that same category, unfortunately.

Unless there's a rack mount version of the SE-02...? I haven't done my homework on that, since I've been thinking that the D would show up.

Mañana, man...

Grey
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#2904157 - 01/23/18 07:38 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markyboard Offline
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I think you have to expect this when you pre-pay for a product that hasn't been released. Tbh I find it hard to believe that this is coming as a surprise to you. Marzzz mentioned that he waited close to 4 years before getting his Solaris iirc. I waited 1.5 years for my Elements after being told 6 weeks from the time I paid in full. There are plenty of other examples. It's not unusual and schedule slips come with the territory. I won't give you the "no one held a gun to your head" speech (oops) or any other brilliant words of wisdom. There's no conspiracy here, everyone's giving their best estimate based on what they know at the time - or not. Doesn't matter - it won't change when your unit arrives.

No one likes it, it's just the way it is.


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#2904162 - 01/23/18 07:58 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
Marzzz Online   content
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I certainly would cut some slack to a small operation- John Bowen was a one-man show who overcame a great deal to get his Solaris out there. But Behringer is a large verging on huge corporation, and I do sometimes wonder* if they announce what pretty much amounts to vaporware in order to get buyers to hesitate pulling the trigger on other products.

FWIW, I have learned my lesson, and will not purchase anything until it is 1) actually shipping 2) I have actually tried it out. I have sworn off kickstarter...


*am totally convinced

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#2904169 - 01/23/18 08:20 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
GRollins Offline
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The "slip up" where Behringer had that rack of future product hints certainly made me think that they were warning Roland, et. al. that they were going to mount a massive invasion of the reissue market. "Oh, gosh, we're so sorry"...uh, not buying it.

I am in agreement with Marzzz. Small company = big slack. Large company = small slack.

I don't recall ever seeing anything like this in the string world (if Gibson, Fender, Ampeg, Marshall, etc. say they've got a guitar or bass or amp, they're generally ready to meet demand...and certainly none of this multi-month bullshit). If this is regarded as common and/or acceptable in the keyboard realm, then I will take it as part of my learning curve and be more wary in the future.

Grey
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#2904174 - 01/23/18 08:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
If this is regarded as common and/or acceptable in the keyboard realm, then I will take it as part of my learning curve and be more wary in the future.


Common but it should not be acceptable. mad

Waldorf is famous for showing synths at NAMM and then taking forever to deliver (or not at all). Yeah, they are a small company but I think that if you announce new gear at the NAMM show, don't announce vaporware. Have a product ready to deliver within 90 to 120 days or stay home.

This was one of their vaporsynths... the Stromberg:









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#2904176 - 01/23/18 08:34 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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***LATE BREAKING NEWS***LATE BREAKING NEWS***LATE BREAKING NEWS***

I mentioned above that I had received an email from Musician's Friend saying that the Model D had been pushed back to 3/6. I did not note that the email was from a human--not a form letter. I wrote back, asking:

"I've seen all sorts of stuff online...some from Uli Behringer, himself...but nothing seems to match what's going on in the real world. Have you got any information as to what the actual status of the Model D is?"

I just got a reply from the person in question, saying:

"Thank you for your patience! Your item will ship 2/27/18. If you receive an email mentioning to avoid cancellation, simply reply to this email and I will make sure your item ships on said date and doesn't cancel. Thanks for choosing Musician's Friend!"

What the f***? How am I to interpret 'If you receive an email mentioning to avoid cancellation...?' Are they cancelling orders?

Is this also regarded as normal in the keyboard world?

Jeez, I think I'll go back to strings...this is getting a little too weird for me.

Grey
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#2904187 - 01/23/18 09:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Rod S Offline
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I have a policy of always buying keyboards a year after release at least. I'm not a professional musician so I don't have any pressure in that regard (other than GAS). For example, I'm glad I held up on the Kronos since the first 73s had the key issue.

This way I can know bugs ahead of time and get user reviews, and avoid surprises.

I think companies should be bold and innovative; but I think Behringer may have bit more than they can chew.

I certainly wouldn't call it normal in the keyboard world, any more than electronics in general are sometimes plagued by delays or a faulty first release.

I think in general it is getting worse with electronics companies rushing projects to market. It seems acceptable to fix it later rather than guaranteeing the product is solid before going out the door.

I follow the same rule with cars.
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#2904188 - 01/23/18 09:11 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
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You guys crack me up.

Try living in the world of industrial electronics for a day. Products don't get delayed months, they get delayed years. All kinds of reasons, most commonly 3rd party approvals like FM, UL, CSA, etc. which is completely outside of your control. You submit your product and a big wad of cash and they approve it whenever they damn well feel like it.

And that doesn't even scratch the surface of bringing something from prototype to production, quality control, etc. You people think that they can just snap their fingers and start producing and be able to accurately predict every possible hiccup.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2904196 - 01/23/18 09:22 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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It's not that I expect a perfectly smooth process, it's that I expect the information I'm given to match the observed facts. If Uli Behringer himself cannot be trusted to have accurate information at hand and to tell the truth (whatever that might be) about whatever's going on, then perhaps it would be better if he said nothing at all. Saying things that aren't true chips away at his credibility in my eyes.

Regarding order cancellation (this is from MF):

"Backordered items by law are on an FTC clock in our system and if the clock isn’t reset the system cancels the order. It will send an email IF this happens. It’s just a precaution."

Grey
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#2904206 - 01/23/18 09:57 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
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I read Uli's statement and I don't see anything that isn't truthful. Nobody can predict the future. You give the best information you can give. He clearly stated the reason for the delay and explained that they are trying to catch up. If a weather man predicts snow next week and it doesn't snow, did he "Lie"?
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2904217 - 01/23/18 10:38 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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If they're producing 200/day (and theoretically increasing), where are they going? I have yet to see a single post from anyone saying they got theirs. As I believe I noted somewhere above, I saw a post on another board from someone who ordered last June and they have yet to receive theirs. If orders are being filled FIFO, then I completely, totally, absolutely understand...but where is there a statement to that effect? Nowhere, that I've seen. Certainly Musician's Friend hasn't said so, despite numerous opportunities to do so.

Musician's Friend (not Behringer) has told me on several occasions that they expected 500 units and that that would be sufficient to meet all pre-orders and leave stock left over. The date these units were expected changed as often as the sales critter. Multiple deliveries? Delays in shipping? Something else? Unclear. I'm not the only one who's been told this by MF...and yet no units have materialized. Did they arrive and get sold/shipped? Did they simply not arrive? Uli says units are shipping, but to what retailers and from thence to whom?

Behringer isn't responsible if Musician's Friend is shading the truth (read: lying) about expected due dates and whether they will actually be able to meet pre-orders. Nor vice versa. Still, there's a lot of fuzzy info out there.

For example: I'm having trouble reconciling the math behind Uli's statement late summer last year that he had pre-orders for 20k units, with Musician's Friend's repeated assertions that they are due 500 units and that that will fill pre-orders, then leave unsold stock. Musician's Friend (regardless of their profitability, etc.--that's another discussion) is still a major retailer. I know Sweetwater and Amazon and some others are listed as outlets for the Model D (per the Behringer website), but the list is not an infinite one and it's not likely that Sweetwater has 10k units backordered, vs. MF only having 300 backorders (figure per MF employees). The math just doesn't work, here.

If there are units in the field, I'd expect to see some reaction from those who have received them, whether good, bad, or indifferent. I haven't made a scorched earth search for posts, but the only things I've seen so far are all based on evaluation units that were sent out long ago. (...of which there seem to have been a plenitude...)

It's comparatively easy for a company to commit to money for vaporware. For an individual who's pulling it out of his hip pocket, it's a different matter.

Grey
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#2904274 - 01/23/18 01:51 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dsetto Offline
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On order-affirmation notice: Based on the one pre-order I've done, my hunch is your email was related to consumer affirmation required on vendor-placed credit card holds on an un-shipped product past a certain duration. They just need a high-five from you, to keep the order as established.

On alternative backup plans: Your current order will eventually arrive. (It is a company's new venture.)

On popcorn: butter, cheddar, caramel.

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#2904275 - 01/23/18 01:54 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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White cheddar, please. snax
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#2904276 - 01/23/18 02:08 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
GRollins Offline
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To be clear, I have yet to receive a cancellation notice--the MF critter just said "if." He didn't specify a date, but today would be two months, I think.

I'm a traditionalist. I'll take butter with lotsa salt. That said, I'm intrigued by the idea of cheese...do people really do that? Howzabout asiago or manchego?

I haven't thought of the caramel-on-popcorn thing in years. What's that called? Cracker Jacks? Have I got that right? Man, that was a loooong time ago.

Just for fun, I asked the Musician's Friend critter point-blank, "Have you folks received any Behringer Model Ds at all?"

We had been having a right jolly conversation, back and forth at 10-20 minute intervals, but after I asked that question, he went utterly silent...four hours, now, and counting...

Interesting.

Maybe he's busy taking orders for SE-02s.

Grey
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#2904277 - 01/23/18 02:12 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Oh, and while I'm thinking about it...

If anyone here at Keyboard Corner has a Behringer Model D on order (anywhere, not just Musician's Friend), would you pretty-please weigh in with the following info:
1) When you placed your order. (Optional: With what retailer.)
2) Have you received your Model D yet?

I'm just dying to be proven wrong--that someone, somewhere actually has one of these things.

Thanks,
Grey


Edited by GRollins (01/23/18 02:13 PM)
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#2904280 - 01/23/18 02:22 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markyboard Offline
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I got mine last week. You didn't get yours yet? idk

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#2904286 - 01/23/18 02:44 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
GRollins Offline
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Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

Grey
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#2904295 - 01/23/18 03:16 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Markyboard Offline
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Sorry Grey, just mess'n - pre-NAMM Giddies.

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#2904299 - 01/23/18 03:30 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
GRollins Offline
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Owie! Leggo my leg!

Grey
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#2904301 - 01/23/18 03:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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They are shipping somewhere. I noticed a few YouTube demos posted in the last week by the "average Joe."

rockit
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#2904310 - 01/23/18 04:50 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
GRollins Offline
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Probably going to China where they use different date formats, which means that those demos are from a year ago (or maybe ten years)...posted by a guy who works at the factory where they're made. He snarfed one off the production line and made a video.

Surely, I'm not the only person here who ordered one. You'd think that someone here would have received theirs and would have posted about it, even if only to say it sucks.

Grey
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#2907758 - 02/07/18 12:10 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Well here's a shock: I've received notice that my Model D has shipped.

Grey
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#2907759 - 02/07/18 12:14 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
JerryA Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Well here's a shock: I've received notice that my Model D has shipped.

Grey


Well that's a disappointment Grey. Sounds like the end of of an entertaining thread. wink

Unless you post an unboxing review ....?

Pretty please ...? grin

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#2907763 - 02/07/18 01:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: JerryA]
GRollins Offline
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Yeah, I know you guys and gals have been waiting with bated breath for me to post the latest episode of Waiting For Godot, subtitled Watching Paint Dry.

For those who will miss my grumpy notes on the (lack of) progress of the Model D from China to the US, I will offer the following thoughts:

1) On 8/30/17 (that's August 30, 2017, for those who are concerned about date formats), Uli Behringer posted the following on Gearslutz, "With over 20,000 backorders, we have achieved such a high volume that we were able to lower the initial price of US$ 400."

2) Circa 1/31/18, he said, "A quick update. To date we have produced over 2,500 units and these are now mostly air freighted to our retailers. We still have a long way to go to fill the 20,000 backorders but we hope this is at least some good news."

The thing that strikes me about these two quotes is that the 20k backorder figure did not change. So...

a) They had a seriously, completely, massive crushing rush of orders last summer, then no more. None. Zero. (If posts online are to be believed, there were people placing orders throughout the fall and winter, so the number should have risen.)

--or--

b) They were producing units at almost exactly the same rate as orders were coming in, so that the backorders stayed consistently around 20k. (Uli himself has indicated that production didn't get going until late December and that it was quite slow at first.)

--or--

c) One or both of the above statements are less truthful than we might wish. (Um...yeah...I think I'll vote for this option.)

A few random notes:

--This will be my first Behringer product. I am aware that they are a polarizing company, but I have tried to remain neutral.
--The journey from concept to finished product has been carried out rather publicly. This has led to both anticipation and condemnation (sometimes both), depending on who you're talking to.
--The reception that the Behringer Model D meets in the market will no doubt color the public's perception of other synth clones they might produce.
--Based on my experience this time around, I will be a little more hesitant to pony up for their ARP 2600 until I see evidence that it's actually entering production.
--I still think that--regardless of my widely-read (that's a joke, son...a joke, I tell ya) grumblings--Behringer is going to have a runaway best seller on their hands. I find it curious that no one has done this before.
--I don't pretend to know what the actual sales figures are, or will be once the dust settles, but if the D sells as well as I expect, Uli will most definitely be cloning other classic synths, once all relevant patents have expired.
--If even half of the laundry list of synths that were available online briefly, then withdrawn, go into production then Behringer's role in the market will likely change. It could easily come to dominate their reputation, for better or for worse.

Assuming that the note that I received from Musician's Friend is not part of some hoax, perpetrated by some prankster here at KC, I should presumably have the unit in hand by early next week at the latest. With the caveat that I've never had a chance to play a real Moog D, hence won't be in a position to do an thorough, honest A/B comparison, I'll post my impressions once the booger comes in. It's the sound we grew up with, heard on a thousand songs. We've all pretty much triangulated what the original Moog was capable of from hearing it on so many recordings, played by so many different people. While it won't be possible to do an exacting comparison, the general sound possibilities should be apparent fairly quickly.

Now if only the bloody MIDI encoder would come in, I'd be able to get this project off to a proper start...

Grey

P.S.: Inquiring minds want to know...why is the current Behringer Model D called the "regular?"


Edited by GRollins (02/07/18 01:43 AM)
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#2907804 - 02/07/18 07:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Probably a better fit for you than the SE-20, though I think the one or two people who have that might post to that thread.

What will happen to your bathroom project when the Model D arrives?
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#2907805 - 02/07/18 07:10 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
brenner13 Offline
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Perhaps they've adopted the fastfood soft-drink philosophy and don't use the term "small"?
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#2907817 - 02/07/18 07:46 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GovernorSilver]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
What will happen to your bathroom project when the Model D arrives?


SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP! I'm not listening to you!

(See? I've got my fingers in my ears...I can't hear you. Oh, wait, you wrote that...maybe I should just close my eyes...)

Uh, the bathroom...glad you mentioned that...oh, gosh, look, it's raining. You know, we really need some rain, 'cause January was kinda dry.

And just to complicate matters, the MIDI encoder thingy is "out for delivery" today. Huh. So much for the email updates I was supposed to be getting as the doo-dad made its way ever closer.

So, believe it or not (I don't, and won't until all the pieces-parts are here in my hands, intact, functional, and ready to go), the MIDI controller --> synth project may, rather unexpectedly, lurch into motion this week. I don't know how many people here are actually into this sort of thing; KC doesn't seem to be a hotbed of maker-mentality activity, but if anyone is interested, I'll post updates as things (hopefully) come together.

Life, or fate, or whatever is playing games with me. As I've mentioned, this area is dead, musically. As of an hour ago, for the first time ever (at least over the last six or seven years), someone has posted a piece of Eurorack modular stuff on my local Craig's List. Sunny beach! Who'd a thunk it? It's a Pittsburgh Modular MIDI 3 unit. Which is actually something I could use for this project if I decide to go the modular route.

Two questions:
What's one of those worth?
What's the difference between a "regular" Pittsburgh Modular Midi 3 and the Lifeforms version?

Grey

P.S.: Oh, and I've got another, admittedly long shot, thing going. Probably won't work out so I'm not going to say any more, lest I jinx things but, man, what a difference a day makes.

Hey, that'd make a good song, don't 'cha think?
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#2907837 - 02/07/18 09:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. A conspiracy!

You heard it here first: you will get a note left on your door that they attempted delivery 3 times and nobody answered, so the package was returned to China.
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#2907853 - 02/07/18 10:04 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
The thing that strikes me about these two quotes is that the 20k backorder figure did not change. So...

a) They had a seriously, completely, massive crushing rush of orders last summer, then no more. None. Zero. (If posts online are to be believed, there were people placing orders throughout the fall and winter, so the number should have risen.)

No, that is no reason for the numbers to have risen.

Let's say someone like Sweetwater orders a thousand units, figuring that's how many they expect to sell in the first 30 days (or whatever metric they use). They start taking orders, and at this point, they've pre-sold a few hundred of them. There is no reason for them to place another order to "replenish" because this is well within their projection. They are not going to want to maintain an initial surge level indefinitely. Unless their pre-sales are well above projections, such that they think their existing order will sell out much sooner than anticipated, there is no reason for them to order more.
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#2907855 - 02/07/18 10:08 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
It's a conspiracy, I tell ya. A conspiracy!

You heard it here first: you will get a note left on your door that they attempted delivery 3 times and nobody answered, so the package was returned to China.


Dude, stop, you're gonna give me nightmares.

Actually the midiboutique mkcv96fx (aka the durawowsler) is in. I am on my way down to the Dungeon to try the keybed and encoder now.

Two notes about the durawowsler:
1) Although the mkcv96fx is (nearly all) SMD...it appears to have been hand-soldered. WTF?
2) It came in wrapped in aluminum foil, which in turn was wrapped in a buncha bubble wrap. Poor man's static bag? No box. No bag. No nuthin', excepting a receipt. Not even an owner's manual or quick start guide. Just the naked circuit board. Man, they've got some seriously thiiiiiin aluminum foil in Bulgaria. We're talkin' molecular thickness. You can nearly see through the stuff. (Just kidding...but not by much.)

The lack of support info (which is okay, I'd already downloaded the pertinent info from their website) and odd packaging is...well, never mind...the important thing is to see if it works properly.

Grey
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#2907876 - 02/07/18 11:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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You've already got the online docs so you should be ready to go. Support is just an email away. Good luck!
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#2907901 - 02/07/18 12:04 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
GRollins Offline
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AnotherScott,
Point taken.

Moe,
The encoder works just fine, but desperately needs programming. The start note was wonky and the velocity was pretty much synth-like hard ON/OFF--just a hint of control. The Upset utility has the ability to set this stuff--got the start note right off the bat, but the velocity presets are weird. There are eight presets and any rational person would presumably arrange them for on/off, grading onwards with increasing control. Nope. They're all jumbled together. I'm trying to sort that out now. All kinds of other stuff that I've yet to look at, but when you have to press E to get a C, you know something's wrong. Had to get that right or go crazy.

Grey
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#2907906 - 02/07/18 12:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
bob_sd Offline
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Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 60
Loc: CA
Received my confirmation of shipment last night from that really big nationwide brick and mortar music retailer that never seems to have any keyboards of interest in display.. I purchased in late December during the 15% off sale. Meanwhile, some other online retailers show product availability as far out as mid may.

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#2907909 - 02/07/18 12:21 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: bob_sd]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: bob_sd
Received my confirmation of shipment last night from that really big nationwide brick and mortar music retailer that never seems to have any keyboards of interest in display.. I purchased in late December during the 15% off sale.


I didn't know you could use a coupon or sale discount when pre-ordering something... thought that only applied to in-stock items.
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#2907913 - 02/07/18 12:29 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
bob_sd Offline
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Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 60
Loc: CA
Yeah I think you may be right. Further, the discount didn’t even apply to the model d. I caught a manager 10 minutes before the store closed and he was all too eager to process the order-think he just wanted me to leave...

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#2907922 - 02/07/18 12:56 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: bob_sd]
GRollins Offline
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I ordered from Musician's Friend--asked for, and got, a 15% discount back at Thanskgiving. That was the sale that was current at that time.

Grey
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#2907927 - 02/07/18 01:02 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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OK, the rules have changed then. Hmmmm.
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#2907931 - 02/07/18 01:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
GRollins Offline
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The D is pretty cheap to begin with. If you can catch a sale at the retailer of your choice, then it's even better.

Grey
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#2908063 - 02/08/18 07:22 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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For those who were waiting for the backorder problem to be resolved, Musician's Friend currently shows the Behringer Model D as being "In Stock & Ready To Ship." I have not checked Sweetwater, et. al. but assume that they're probably good to go, too. If not, then they should be soon.

No, I'm not going to order more yet for poly chaining. The first one hasn't gotten here yet and I want to be sure I like the critter before dropping more money on this facet of the experiment.

Besides, I just plugged a bunch of money into another item which I will report on in due time. Need to take a break from spending.

Incidentally, I've mostly gotten the MIDI encoder whipped into shape. The velocity curve thing is the last thing on my agenda for this go-round. The mkcv96fx has nine (not eight as I said above) velocity presets. Five are hard-coded. Four are available to be user programmed. The hard-coded ones are linear, log, exponential, "S" and "N."

If anyone has any insight as to what S and N stand for, I'd be interested to hear about it.

The linear and exponential are the only ones that are anywhere near tolerable for simulating a piano, though neither is worth bragging about. I'm going to spend odd bits of time trying to hack together an offset table that works better. If anyone has any suggestions as to values that might work, I'm all ears.

The user presets are set by default to flat numeric results. For example, #8 gives 127 for all velocities, regardless of how hard you hit the keys. That can be reprogrammed, but I'm thinking I'll leave it for applications like organ or harpsichord where there are no dynamics to worry about.

Grey
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#2908075 - 02/08/18 08:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
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Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 314
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: GRollins
For those who were waiting for the backorder problem to be resolved, Musician's Friend currently shows the Behringer Model D as being "In Stock & Ready To Ship." I have not checked Sweetwater, et. al. but assume that they're probably good to go, too. If not, then they should be soon.

Although it was in the back of my mind as a "get one eventually", I had no plans to buy one of these right now. But going to MF and seeing the big green "In Stock & Ready To Ship" was apparently enough to snap the thin strand of will power I possess. This is exactly the same way I ended up with a Minilogue when they were first released (since sold).
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#2908076 - 02/08/18 08:53 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Mighty Ferguson]
GRollins Offline
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Boy, do I know that feeling...

To paraphrase another saying: I don't suffer from GAS, I enjoy every minute of it!

I'm sure Sweetwater probably has some by now and I believe Amazon was going to be selling them, too. If I recall, you can go to the Behringer site and they've got a link that shows their retailers.

Grey
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#2908343 - 02/09/18 12:08 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
2/9/18

The Behringer Model D has arrived. The box looks to be in good physical condition, but I'm going to work on the bathroom for a little while longer before succumbing to the temptation to mess with the little booger. I've waited 78 days...I can wait another hour.

(...maybe...)

Grey
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#2908347 - 02/09/18 12:23 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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so, 700 posts about a product you have been waiting for being late and now you are going to do something else for a while before you decide to get to it. facepalm grin
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#2908355 - 02/09/18 12:41 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
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Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 314
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: GRollins
2/9/18

The Behringer Model D has arrived. The box looks to be in good physical condition, but I'm going to work on the bathroom for a little while longer before succumbing to the temptation to mess with the little booger. I've waited 78 days...I can wait another hour.

(...maybe...)

Grey
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
so, 700 posts about a product you have been waiting for being late and now you are going to do something else for a while before you decide to get to it. facepalm grin

When you gotta go, you gotta go...

I got the shipping confirmation after my impulse buy yesterday. Should receive it on Tuesday.
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#2908357 - 02/09/18 12:43 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
AnotherScott Offline
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Bathrooms always take priority. Just don't ask for the details.
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#2908358 - 02/09/18 12:49 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: AnotherScott]
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Probably he will return it after trying it for 5 minutes. “Now that I think of it, I actually don’t need a mono synth”.
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#2908411 - 02/09/18 03:25 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RudyS]
GRollins Offline
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I was a good boy and put in almost 2 1/2 hours on the bathroom before starting on the D.

First impressions:
--Fit & finish are a little less than you might expect, or at least wish for. The aluminum centers on the knobs show some minor marring. The wooden(?) end caps have some very small dings on the sharp edges. The inner poly bag was a little haphazardly sealed.
--For your money you get the synth, a wall wart, a pair of 1/8" cables to patch with, a ribbon cable (I assume that it's for Euroracking), an owner's manual and a Behringer sticker.
--I DEFINITELY don't ever want anything smaller than this...ever. I keep hitting the tuning knobs when I go to change waveform or whatever. The Roland SE-02 is hereby, completely and forever, off the table. For the record, my hands are average to perhaps slightly larger than average, but certainly not huge, by any means. My weight is under control; my fingers are not fat.
--That said...this thing is fun. Lots of fun.

Back to fiddling. More later.

Grey
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#2908416 - 02/09/18 04:07 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dsetto Offline
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Registered: 01/28/15
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I called it arriving on page 6.

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#2908417 - 02/09/18 04:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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What's your next prediction?

I could use some winning numbers for the lottery.

Grey
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#2908421 - 02/09/18 04:31 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Rod S Offline
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6 pages of thread and you post this measly review once it arrived?
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#2908431 - 02/09/18 05:27 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Rod S]
GRollins Offline
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Sorry, but I'm having to sneak down to the Dungeon in between other things.

Blame it on my age if you must, but I find the D's knobs & buttons control panel to be far more intuitive to use than the hybrid half-knobs/half-selection strategy on the Little Phatty.

Still liking it, even if it is mere mono. Right now I'm just playing it by itself, using the Fatar keybed/midiboutique encoder. I have yet to try deep oscillators in conjunction with the Little Phatty or poly chaining.

My reservations about the finish notwithstanding, I find the feel of the knobs and switches to be reassuringly firm. It has enough heft that it doesn't feel completely like a toy, but not so much that it would be difficult to carry around for those who have to worry about weight.

Yes, the knobs are as tight as I can stand, spacing-wise. They're just on the verge of being too small, but not quite. They're right on the hairy edge. One size smaller and I'd be bitching. As it is, I can live with it. I do wish they'd opted for a little larger format, physically, but I'll get used to it. I'm guessing that if I decide to go the poly chain route I'll be thankful that it's no larger than it is.

Speaking of poly chaining, I'm not sure how much I'd relish all the tuning I'd have to do to keep several of these puppies tracking together. I'm not yet sure how stable the tuning is yet--I keep twisting things on purpose or bumping them by accident.

Grey
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#2908450 - 02/09/18 06:55 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
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Oh.
My.
Gawd.

What I'm calling "deep oscillators" is friggin' orgasmic. I've got the D running in parallel with the internal oscillators in the Little Phatty. That's five oscillators, total. And all I can say is...it's better than I'd dreamed. Rich, chocolaty, and so thick you could fluff it and use it as a pillow. Seductive. I'm likin' this.

My initial impression is that the oscillators in the D are hanging pretty tight. Granted, it's in a temperature-controlled environment, not an outdoor gig, but it's doing at least as well as the Phatty. I'll keep an eye on it and report again later, as I know that this will be of interest to many.

Grey
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#2908482 - 02/10/18 03:28 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 10580
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Rich, chocolaty, and so thick you could fluff it and use it as a pillow.




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#2908526 - 02/10/18 09:05 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
Dave Number Four Offline
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Registered: 02/22/13
Posts: 32
Perhaps this would be a good time for Grey or anyone else who got one to start the "Behringer Model D first impressions" thread.

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#2908549 - 02/10/18 12:00 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Dave Number Four]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: Dave Number Four
Perhaps this would be a good time for Grey or anyone else who got one to start the "Behringer Model D first impressions" thread.


I'm on it.

Grey
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#2908562 - 02/10/18 12:55 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
MurMan Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 934
Loc: San Diego
Originally Posted By: GRollins
... put in almost 2 1/2 hours on the bathroom ...

Originally Posted By: GRollins
Blame it on my age if you must ...

Originally Posted By: GRollins
Oh.
My.
Gawd.

Originally Posted By: GRollins
... friggin' orgasmic

Originally Posted By: GRollins
I'm on it.

Originally Posted By: GRollins
I know that this will be of interest to many.

Actually, no. Most of us find this TMI. shocked wink
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#2908647 - 02/11/18 12:24 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: MurMan]
GRollins Offline
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Always heartwarming to hear from my fan club.

Glad you could make it. Here's an autographed photo. I'll see you at the next scheduled event, okay?

Grey
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#2908703 - 02/11/18 08:48 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dougb415 Offline
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Registered: 01/27/01
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Loc: Summertown TN
My Sweetwater rep told me on Friday that they will be getting their initial shipment “soon” and that he wasn’t sure when he’d be able to ship a unit to me. I called MF, got 15% off and it will ship tomorrow. I called my Sweetwater rep and left voicemail to cancel my order.

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#2908712 - 02/11/18 09:48 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dougb415]
GRollins Offline
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I'm not sure what's up with Behringer's shipment strategy. They shipped at least two batches to Germany that I know of before the US got any. I'm not fussing about that, per se, I just wish they were more transparent about their intentions.

I would have thought that they would ship some to Musician's Friend and Sweetwater at the same time. I guess I was wrong. Musician's Friend told a number of people (including me) that they had 500 on order, of which 300 were sold, leaving 200 as stock. By the 200/day figure that Uli was giving out, that's only 2 1/2 day's output for them. You'd think that if push came to shove, they'd send 3-400 to MF to at least cover the preorders, and slip Sweetwater a few at the same time, to avoid the appearance of favoritism or something. Then ship in another batch to be stock.

I haven't tried to estimate how many D's would fit on a standard 4' x 4' shipping pallet, but maybe it's 500. It may turn out that they only ship in lots of 500, because that's a pallet's worth.

Grey
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#2908713 - 02/11/18 09:54 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
DulceLabs.com Offline
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Registered: 04/21/13
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Loc: CLASSIFIED
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I'm going to work on the bathroom for a little while longer before succumbing to the temptation to mess with the little booger. I've waited 78 days...

That's some serious constipation.

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#2908715 - 02/11/18 10:00 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: DulceLabs.com]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Dude, you have no idea...

(Of course, there are people here who are already convinced that I'm full of it. Maybe this will improve my reputation.)

Grey
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#2908741 - 02/11/18 11:16 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12977
Originally Posted By: GRollins
I would have thought that they would ship some to Musician's Friend and Sweetwater at the same time

If MF placed their order earlier, it would not be inexplicable that they would receive stock sooner.
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#2908744 - 02/11/18 11:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: AnotherScott]
GRollins Offline
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I would think that any of the large retailers would have placed orders as soon as it was announced, but what do I know?

Grey
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#2909953 - 02/15/18 06:02 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Jeez...

There's a Behringer Model D "new" on eBay for...wait for it...$399.00...

...and there's a bid.

Uh, should someone break it to the poor bidder that he/she is overpaying by $100, relative to list price, and that with even minor effort the thing can be bought on sale for even less?

And to add insult to injury, they'll pay for shipping when they could have free shipping, and they'll have to wait until the auction is over, then wait for delivery, when the unit could be half-way there if they'd bought at a retailer...?

It makes me wonder about people. Don't they do even rudimentary homework?

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2909998 - 02/16/18 03:34 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
It makes me wonder about people. Don't they do even rudimentary homework?


There were iPhone X's on eBay selling for premium prices back in November. No doubt for those unable to wait a month for the next shipment at the Apple store (or wherever). Folks with more dollars than sense.

Just remember P.T. Barnum's famous words...
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#2910034 - 02/16/18 06:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Synthoid]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Folks with more dollars than sense.


A group that no doubt includes me, but still...

It just goes to show--at least in my case--that no matter how little money you have, you can have even less sense.

Grey
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#2922353 - 04/19/18 09:47 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
RudyS Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
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Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
ow man... I'm having the same Behringer woe's as you Grey.

My Boog model D should have arrived this week. Instead I heard today it will arrive beginning of July.......
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#2922371 - 04/19/18 10:36 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RudyS]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
I've been posting a few things about this in the First Impressions thread.

Uli indicates that they've just shipped their 10,000th unit and that they currently have orders for another 15k (up from 10k). He says at the rate that orders are coming in, he's not sure when they'll get ahead of the curve.

You have my sympathy. I waited over two months for mine, which wouldn't have been a problem if they had simply said, "Dude, it'll be about two months." But, noooo...they had to have all this silly stuff with ever-changing ship dates. I just didn't appreciate the head games (intentional or otherwise).

That said, I still like my D. I'm glad I ordered it when I did because at this point I've been able to mess with it for a while and, yes, it's a nifty toy.

Just wish I had more time to play, but they don't sell that in stores.

Grey

P.S.: I'm of two minds as to how to handle the preorder thing for the (presumed) eventual ARP 2600 clone. Order one the first day and hope to get a spot near the head of the line, or wait until they're actually in stock. At this moment, I feel that I'd rather get in early. If they're as popular as the Moog D clone, there's no telling how long it would be before they're actually available in the sense of order and have it ship the next day. All subject to change without notice, depending on how grumpy I am when they're officially announced.
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#2926042 - 05/08/18 07:38 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Two notes as of this evening:

1) I was looking at (real) Moogs on eBay, but was cross-listed to a Behringer Model D because the ad's text compared it to the original Moog. Out of curiosity, I waited an hour until the auction ended--it went for $320.00. Yep. $20 more for a used piece than they're selling for new. (When you can get them.)

--which brings me to--

2) I looked at Musician's Friend...they're supposedly going to be available 5/18/18. Assuming that to be correct (not really all that good a bet, based on past experience, but...), you could order a new one and have it ship next Friday for free, thus saving the $17.87 that the eBay sale was charging for shipping, and get the unit itself both new and cheaper. And if you could catch a sale, then you could get it even cheaper still.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2926051 - 05/08/18 08:49 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
mate stubb Offline
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A Mini in the hand is worth more ($20) than two in the bush.
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#2926067 - 05/09/18 01:07 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: mate stubb]
RudyS Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
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Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Indeed.....*still waiting*
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#2926108 - 05/09/18 07:22 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RudyS]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
My sympathies, man.

I won't say, "it's worth the wait." I've always hated that expression. How are you supposed to quantify the cost--by any metric you might choose--of a waiting period?

But it's a fun li'l booger...

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2926637 - 05/12/18 06:07 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
For those who might be interested, the Behringer Model D shows as "In Stock & Ready To Ship" at Musician's Friend. I have not checked other retailers.

The last time MF showed the D as being in stock it only lasted a few days before they sold out again. From comments Uli Behringer has made about their backorder situation, I would assume that the pattern will remain for the foreseeable future.

I haven't watched Sweetwater, et. al. so I don't know if they get their stock at the same time as MF or if it alternates, or what. Those who have it in mind to get a D might want to check the retailer of their choice and order while they're available, because the backorder periods seem to be considerably longer than the in stock periods and I doubt that their stock is all that deep.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2926734 - 05/12/18 11:55 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
RudyS Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
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Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Ok, just was lukcy yesterday. Walked into a music store for something and saw the BOOG standing there. It was 40 euro more than my pre-order. Managed to talk 35 off of it, so for 5 euro more I didn’t have to wait 8 more weeks. Pre order cancelled and ready to go!

I like it so far!
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#2938838 - 07/21/18 06:42 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: RudyS]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Well, here we are in the latter stages of July and the Behringer Model D is still in short supply on the retail market. Musician's Friend is currently saying 7/31/18, but the price remains the same at $299.99 w/free shipping.

So...

I just watched a used one go down on eBay for $290 + $40 shipping...that's $330 for a used D when you can get one brand new for $300 if you're willing to wait a bit; $250-260 if you're willing to wait for a sale.

Hmmm...

I swear I'm going to put in an order for, like, ten of the things, then eBay them as new as soon as they come in. I mean, really, the worst case scenario is that I end up keeping the silly things at which point I can poly chain them--if memory serves, you can chain up to sixteen of the buggers, right?

I'm still liking mine, by the way. It ain't perfect, but it's cheap and it's fun.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2938843 - 07/21/18 08:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
piano39 Offline
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Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 399
Loc: Ohio
For what it's worth.... I preordered a Model D from Sweetwater. Told that they expect them ~ August 13th.
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#2938855 - 07/22/18 03:41 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: piano39]
bjosko Offline
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 192
Loc: Denmark
Musicstore.de have them in stock for us located in Europe.
Got mine a couple of weeks ago.
Fun !
Still wanting a Subsequent 37 ......
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#2938884 - 07/22/18 07:42 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: bjosko]
GRollins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Originally Posted By: bjosko
Still wanting a Subsequent 37 ......


I've got a Little Phatty, the ancestor of the 37. I think it's a pretty good package.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2943904 - 08/18/18 06:56 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
piano39 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 399
Loc: Ohio
So, My Behringer Model D arrived yesterday. This thing is a blast. Found some Minimoog patch sheets on the internet to get me started.

Next project will be to figure out how to interface it with all my other stuff (especially the Microbrute, Beatstep, and all of the Eurorack modules that I built). Have to get ready for some other gigs, though. I had to take my Yamaha V50 out of the studio to make room.

The filter is incredible- when I used to listen to Wendy Carlos' Switched on Bach, I was amazed how the sounds just sparkled. You can find a sweet spot on the cutoff to make this sound. To my ears, this is the real deal.

One comment-- Mine only came with the "Quick Start Manual", not the full Users Manual. Downloaded the users manual, so no harm.
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#2943967 - 08/19/18 09:36 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: piano39]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
At least as of a few days ago, Musician's Friend actually had them in stock, ready to go. Don't know about Sweetwater, et. al.

I still like mine, though I haven't used it in a bit--been recording (or trying to) and the tracks I've been doing haven't required a pure synth sound. Still, fun toy and the price (especially if you get it on sale) is nice.

Grey
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I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.

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#2946329 - 09/03/18 06:30 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
piano39 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 399
Loc: Ohio
OK- I really am enjoying playing and programming this thing. One comment- the manual sucks. Hasn't been an issue, because I have been able to figure out the routing etc using my ears.

One thing that I haven't been able to figure out- Oscillators 1 and 2 have a "LO" range on the frequency selector. This lets each of these oscillators to go way below audio frequencies and implies that they can be used as an LFO. How could either of these oscillators be used as a mod source? I guess this question would apply to the Minimoog as well.

(I understand how OSC 3 can be used as a mod source)
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#2946336 - 09/03/18 07:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: piano39]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 6197
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: piano39

How could either of these oscillators be used as a mod source? I guess this question would apply to the Minimoog as well.


You cant - unless you borrow CEB's drill shocked. You can frequency modulate those oscillators at their low frequency with Osc 3 for some gnarly bass sounds. On the original mini you have very limited range with only the upper notes giving you anything melodic. But using CV input allows more notes to take advantage of this. Of course you also get this with midi.

Great question.

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#2946390 - 09/03/18 02:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Markyboard]
piano39 Offline
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Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 399
Loc: Ohio
Thanks, Markyboard. That's what I thought.
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