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#2892851 - 11/28/17 07:45 AM Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping
GRollins Offline
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At one point the anticipated shipping dates for the Behringer Model D were in November, then they slipped to December 15th, at least at Musician's Friend--that's what they were saying when I ordered mine last week. However, at the moment they're saying 1/13/18.

Has anyone received one yet or does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information as to when they will ship?

The two scenarios I can see are:
1) They're on allocation and the orders are being filled FIFO. Under this scenario, someone who ordered earlier might conceivably have already gotten theirs if they ordered back when the shipping dates were projected to be in November. Mine might ship ca. 12/15 and someone who orders today would see theirs ship 1/13.

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.)

Notes:
Different retailers give different ship dates.
The Behringer web site still doesn't admit that the unit exists.

Grey
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#2892863 - 11/28/17 08:20 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
...... does anyone have any firm (i.e. non-speculative) information.....

2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out.


Non-speculative??? laugh
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#2892867 - 11/28/17 08:33 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Bill H. Offline
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Guy in another forum said his Sweetwater rep is now saying early January too.

Initial delay was because production was being moved to a new factory complex. Haven't heard if that's the reason this time or not, but it would be reasonable to assume that it is.

I'm mildly interested in the product, but can easily wait until... whenever.

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#2892947 - 11/28/17 03:23 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bill H.]
GRollins Offline
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As far as I know, no one's mentioned that theirs has come in.

Grey
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#2892950 - 11/28/17 03:35 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Al Coda Offline
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My guess ...
There´s NAMM and there´s Musikmesse ...

They will come up w/ the final product then.

I expect the same for Tom Oberheim´s SEM-X (and hope both will complement well !)

A.C.

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#2892956 - 11/28/17 04:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Al Coda]
Marzzz Offline
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It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.

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#2892963 - 11/28/17 05:45 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
It is my understanding that Behringer will not be at NAMM, fwiw.


Why this was our very last NAMM show 01/17
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#2892966 - 11/28/17 06:14 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
U.Honey Offline
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Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: GRollins
2) There are problems with the design and all production is on hold until the bugs are worked out. A number of the YouTube evaluation/comparison videos hinted at software bugs and a teardown video that I watched looked as though some of the hardware was hacked--a bit messily, I might add. (Presumably not by the guy posting the video, though he did specifically mention that he thought that there were modifications that could be made to the circuitry.


I doubt that there are software bugs. It’s a copy of Moog model D. Did the original have any software? I know it has the midi and USB interfaces but that’s not a lot of software.

Hardware bugs, that makes sense.
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#2892967 - 11/28/17 06:15 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
RABid Offline
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Maybe osc 2 will not stay in tune. razz
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#2892975 - 11/28/17 06:59 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: U.Honey]
GRollins Offline
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I believe I saw something to the effect that the reason one of the early demo videos only played long, droning pads was that there were MIDI Note Off issues. Don't see offhand why that should be difficult to fix, but maybe there's something that's not immediately obvious.

If the Behringer truly is a straight adaptation of the original Moog Model D schematic, then the hardware issues should be minimal to none. This isn't some freaky, cutting edge, 21st Century technological wonder...it's a 50 year-old, proven design. Some of the semiconductors (e.g. E112 JFET) might be difficult to source, but Moog themselves will have had to address the same problems when they came out with their reissue, so basically it will come down to replacing one part with another with similar specs. None of the parts are being driven anywhere close to their limits, so there should be any number of candidate replacements. The bean-counters will want to weigh in as to which parts are most economical, but it's not for lack of pieces-parts to substitute.

Hell, the circuit isn't all that complicated. If I wasn't up to my hips in alligators, I'd build one or two, myself. I like etching circuit boards.

To be honest, I'd probably "improve" things a bit. One of the obvious, easy things would be simply to use 1% (okay, okay, maybe 2% to save a few pennies) metal film resistors throughout the circuit, instead of carbon comp. True the original had a few 1% in critical spots, but might as well do 'em all. 741 opamps are execrable. Replace them with something better. Yes, purists will argue that changing those out might change the sound, the magic, but why not give it a try? Use THAT 300 Series matched bipolars, etc. etc. etc. There are all kinds of things that I could do, since I wouldn't be answerable to an accounting department. It'd be fun.

I'd better stop. If I keep this up, I'm going to talk myself into tackling this as a project and I absolutely cannot commit myself to more stuff at this time. I've still got the master bath to finish, a desk top that I'm finishing, two guitars that I'm refinishing, plus a half-dozen other things, and that's not counting holiday commitments.

Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...

Grey
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#2893047 - 11/29/17 07:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Man, I wish I had 48 hour days...
So you could sleep 40 of them? grin
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#2893059 - 11/29/17 08:08 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe Muscara]
GRollins Offline
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Dude, I only sleep, at best, 4-5 hours a night. Average is closer to 3-4. Today I'm running on about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of sleep. Makes it hard to remember things; my short term memory is for shit (ask my wife--sometimes it's funny--sometimes it's not). Sometimes I get pretty grumpy, although I try to remain aware of my attitude and tamp down on extremes, knowing that it's often 80% my fault.

If, somehow, I were to miraculously have more time in my days, I doubt it would make much difference in my sleep patterns, although I could always cross fingers and hope.

Grey
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#2893107 - 11/29/17 11:29 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Joe Muscara Offline
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When I don't get enough sleep, I get pretty miserable. The numbers you state would make me awful to be around. So I take naps when I can and need to. idk
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#2893207 - 11/30/17 01:39 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Joe Muscara]
GRollins Offline
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Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.

Incidentally, I wrote Behringer directly at about the same time that I started this thread. I received one of those form letter responses, acknowledging that they had received my note and assigning me a Case Number. Their form letter promised a response "within one business day." So far...nothing.

Since this thread hasn't been inundated with "I got mine a week ago" posts, I'm assuming that there aren't UPS trucks trundling down the road, bursting with synths.

Well, okay, maybe there are, but they're not Behringer Model Ds.

Grey
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#2893211 - 11/30/17 02:43 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
Marzzz Offline
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I actually waited four years for a [insert relatively famous high end VA synth], including two years after I made my “final” payment, and have seen various kickstarter projects deliver a year or more after the promised date. Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).

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#2893218 - 11/30/17 04:40 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Marzzz]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore (and I have participated in my last kickstarter).


Yeah, I'm sure you knew the risk going in - but it still sucks. Sorry about that.

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#2893235 - 11/30/17 06:25 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
joegerardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
Unfortunately, naps don't work too well for me. Oh, well.


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. Do you snore unless you're on your side?

Ask your doc. I've been going through that for about 40 years - to the point of stumbling tired - and never went to the doctor about it because one more medical thing and I would lose my medical, and thus my pilot's license, so once BasicMed came out for pilots, first thing I did was a home sleep study. Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now, and while it's only a bit better than before, it's because it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it. The new machines have WiFi, so you can report on it and they make changes pretty much on the fly.

..Joe
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#2893245 - 11/30/17 07:01 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: joegerardi]
Bif_ Offline
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Originally Posted By: joegerardi


Sounds like Sleep Apnea. ......Turns out I stopped breathing on average 12 times an hour.

I got the machine now....... it takes a good 6 months for them to tweak it.

..Joe


Sleep apnea is a condition that can cause serious health issues. I was diagnosed 4 years ago (waking 45 times per hour). Thought I was losing my mind prior to treatment.

It takes time to get used to the machine but I sleep quite well now and wake feeling rested, even when I only get 6 hours sleep. I feel like I got my life back.

Get a sleep study to be sure.
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#2893251 - 11/30/17 07:30 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: Bif_]
GRollins Offline
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One problem...I don't snore. No breathing difficulties whatsoever. I've been this way since I was a child. My mother was frantic to get me to sleep and keep me that way. She even made triple-thick curtains (this being back in the era when housewives did such things) in an attempt to block the morning sunlight. It made no difference. She'd come in to wake me in the mornings and I'd already be up, playing with my Legos. Drove her crazy. It got a little better during my teen years. When other teens were doing the typical ten hours of sleep and having to be dragged from bed, I got up to a "normal" eight hours or so. By age twenty, I was back on the decline--six to seven. It's been a long, slow progression since then. There was a blip back when I was getting divorced. At that time, I was firmly into six hours per night, but the stress of the divorce drove me down to four. Once the divorce was over, I rebounded back to six and resumed my slow slope downwards. These days, my typical sleep pattern is two to four hours of sleep, awake for two to four, then, maybe a nap of an hour or two if I'm lucky. Then I'm in motion.

Oddly, other than my short term memory, I function at least as well as the people around me. I'm used to it. My wife's used to it. The kids think nothing of it. I have other peculiarities, they're just not as apparent. The standing joke is that I'm some sort of alien, not a human.

They say Thomas Edison got by on virtually no sleep and what he got was mostly catnaps. I do not claim his genius, but I can see his way of life more clearly than that of so-called normal peoples'.

Grey


Edited by GRollins (11/30/17 10:29 AM)
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#2893258 - 11/30/17 07:57 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
davedoerfler Offline
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this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax
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#2893264 - 11/30/17 08:14 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
GRollins Offline
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Told you I had short term memory problems...

Honestly, I was hoping against hope that someone would pop up and say that their D had come in, but they'd forgotten to mention it here. Obviously, that hasn't happened, so I'm assuming that everyone's in a holding pattern.

No one's mentioned any news, either.

Given that normal, spoken conversations over beer and pizza tend to range hither, thither, and yon, I've never expected threads to stay tightly focused. Indeed, it would be positively odd if they did. The only real exception I can think of is lectures of one sort or another, where one person has unquestioned sway. I certainly don't see that this thread deserves to be a lecture in any sense. I'm open to what others have to say about the D, or other things perhaps, if the conversation drifts.

I'm prepping a guitar to shoot some lacquer, so I'll be in and out of the thread as I wander past my PC.

Grey
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#2893265 - 11/30/17 08:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
J. Dan Offline
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They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893278 - 11/30/17 09:02 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
dsetto Offline
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on the OT: I've read that before electricity, sleeping in two chunks was a thing.
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.

One day soon, you'll be enjoying it in parallel with your LP. It's their 2nd synth; and their 1st of this kind. There'll be bumps. And your plan is good.

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#2893307 - 11/30/17 10:09 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: davedoerfler]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
this thread is like a ship with no rudder. I didn't see one post that had anything to do with the topic after the OP. snax

In other words, a fairly typical thread...

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#2893311 - 11/30/17 10:17 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
They said it would ship in November. They never said what year.


True, that...

Grey
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#2893313 - 11/30/17 10:21 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Originally Posted By: dsetto
on the D: Don't lose sleep over it.


Touche.

You actually made me chuckle out loud with that one, something I rarely do.

And, no, before anyone asks, I haven't been losing sleep over the D.

(That's not to say that women with D busts haven't caused me to lose sleep, but...well...perhaps the less said about that, the better.)

Grey
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#2893316 - 11/30/17 10:32 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
dsetto Offline
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Is what the D was? And if missed, it was then hammered in with this generation's mooger-this, phatty that. ... Apt for Fall 2017's assault on the assaulter. But, I digress.

I know you haven't been losing sleep over that D. Thanks for laughing. The auto-smiley emoticon follow-up was a let-down.

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#2893364 - 11/30/17 12:09 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: dsetto]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 1203
Okay, here's today's Fun Fact:

According to MF, the expected ship date is now...

1/5/18.

Yep. Eight days nearer.

Somebody pop me some popcorn. I'm gonna make a game of this, watching the ship date slide back and forth.

Actually, an earlier ship date is the last thing I expected.

Glad I wasn't planning on giving one as a Christmas present or anything.

Grey
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#2893368 - 11/30/17 12:25 PM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: GRollins]
J. Dan Offline
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They just did that so that people will place orders with them, thinking they'll get it a week earlier, and are just hoping they won't be pissed off when it doesn't actually ship by then.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2893491 - 12/01/17 05:19 AM Re: Behringer Model D ship dates keep slipping [Re: J. Dan]
GRollins Offline
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Well, I guess Behringer doesn't get the coveted Amazingly Fast Customer Service Reward(tm). I wrote them on Tuesday and got an automated response saying they would respond within one (1) day...it's now been three (3) days and even the crickets that were chirping got tired and went home to get some rest.

Grey
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