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#2892038 - 11/23/17 06:05 AM OT: Printers
Joe BrokeIt Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19169
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Actually, this might be semi-OT because of the kind of stuff I might want to print being music, but with the new OT rules, I'm kind of confused. freak

roll




I've been using inkjet printers for years. I got each one cheap, often as part of a bundle. I think the one I currently use is really good for photo prints, but I don't use it often enough and the ink runs out too easily, or it dries up. I'm often struggling to get a decent print out when I do use it because the ink is out or dry or whatever.

In fact, to get the true black out of this printer, I need to have a working photo cartridge in it, and that's the one that always seems to run out. In a pinch, I can tell it to only use the "color" cartridge, but the "black" is then a purplish, grayish thing that's not nice and deep like black should be.

This lead me to wonder if a laser printer would be worth it for these kinds of jobs. I could have cartridges ready for the inkjet when I want to print photos, and hopefully the laser would be ready to print black and white stuff the rest of the time. My questions to anyone who might know are

1) Do laser printer toner cartridges last a long time when they're not used? I'm seeing mixed things online about whether they dry or harden.

2) Are there inexpensive laser printers that are worth it for small uses like this? The thing has to last. I don't see spending several hundred dollars with my limited uses but I've seen decent reviews on a couple of models below $100.

Ideally, any printer I'd buy at this point would work with AirPrint on iOS as well as my Macs.

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KC Island
#2892040 - 11/23/17 06:19 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3126
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
I have a four-cartridge colour HP laser in my office I bought .......... maybe in 2011? I think I've replaced the ink twice. It was a $350 printer back then, and a complete toner replacement is somewhere around $100.

My trick to toner cartridge longevity is to turn off ink management in the driver (thank you, HP) and shaking them up now and then. I get about an extra year out of them that way.

I threw my inkjet in the garbage because my cost per page was around $2 when I worked out the cost of replacing the dried up cartridges.

I have the black-only version of that printer right here. I don't know if it's something my mac does or the printer does, but I can print to it with my iPad. Model is M1212nf MFP. It's plugged into my network. I hate USB. I think this guy was around $125 roughly 4 years ago. I have changed the toner cartridge once.

Wes


Edited by WesG (11/23/17 06:20 AM)
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
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#2892041 - 11/23/17 06:34 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: WesG]
Rod S Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 2890
Loc: S„o Paulo, Brasil
I have an EPSON that has a cartridge clean up process. I use it very seldomly, so I just run this process and get a perfect print. I've had the printer for 5 years and in the second black cartridge.
_________________________
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#2892042 - 11/23/17 06:35 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: WesG]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5053
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: WesG
I

I threw my inkjet in the garbage because my cost per page was around $2 when I worked out the cost of replacing the dried up cartridges.

Wes


codger lecture time. Here in CA, with 39 million people, we don't throw printers or electronics ' in the garbage '. We recycle them properly.



Edited by GregC (11/23/17 06:35 AM)

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#2892046 - 11/23/17 07:27 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: GregC]
#%$(# Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 4954
Loc: Orlando, Florida
Originally Posted By: GregC

codger lecture time. Here in CA, with 39 million people, we don't throw printers or electronics ' in the garbage '. We recycle them properly.

Oh yeah gotta "Save the Earth". Listen hippy, Mother Nature has been killing us for thousands of years with floods, volcanoes, lightning, plague, and tornadoes. If I wanna fight back by throwing a printer in a landfill, I'm gonna do it!

Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving! laugh

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#2892048 - 11/23/17 07:30 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
Synthoid Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9752
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Laser printers are great if you can find a good one. I bought a Minolta QMS color laser about 15 years ago and it was really good. The toner supplies were reasonably priced and lasted a LONG time.

Only problem was the fusing unit went bad after the printer was discontinued... But it was nice while it lasted.

Inkjet supplies are hopelessly overpriced. Like a 1000% markup or more. taz


_________________________
To stop the flow of music would be like the stopping of time itself, incredible and inconceivable.
-- Aaron Copland

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#2892056 - 11/23/17 08:05 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Synthoid]
Dr88s Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1109
Loc: Montreal, Canada
My beef with printers is that most of the manufacturers purpsoely won't support older models after 2 new OS iterations come out - they just stop making new drivers.

The exception to the rule is Brother printers. They still write drivers for legacy hardware.
_________________________
NS2EX Compact, PX5S, MX49

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#2892061 - 11/23/17 08:17 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: #%$(#]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5053
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: #%$(#
Originally Posted By: GregC

codger lecture time. Here in CA, with 39 million people, we don't throw printers or electronics ' in the garbage '. We recycle them properly.

Oh yeah gotta "Save the Earth". Listen hippy, Mother Nature has been killing us for thousands of years with floods, volcanoes, lightning, plague, and tornadoes. If I wanna fight back by throwing a printer in a landfill, I'm gonna do it!

Oh yeah, Happy Thanksgiving! laugh


Don't you dare stomp on a palmetto bug. You will destroy the balance of nature wink

Happy Thxgiving to you and your Kronos !

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#2892064 - 11/23/17 08:25 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Dr88s]
BluMunk Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 639
Loc: Burlington, VT
I bought a Canon imageCLASS MF249dw this summer, and it changed my life (maybe a little hyperbole there smile ). It's just b&w, so it doesn't serve all the functions of my old inkjet, but it prints quickly and crisply. I can print from my phone. Double sided. Scans to my computer or to e-mail.

For music/scores, I would never go back to inkjet.

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#2892075 - 11/23/17 09:30 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: BluMunk]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3126
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
I will never buy another Brother inkjet product. The one I binned would also refuse, for example, to send a fax when the yellow ink was dried up. Seriously.

I've been very happy with their laser products, though. I'm on my second duplexing laser.

As for drivers - ink management and all that crap, sure, but you should be able to run any HP printer with a generic PCL5 driver. And the Brother printers, you can run them with a generic PostScript driver. Of course, this means that you have to buy the version of the printer with some real brains inside it. Look for "PCL5", or "BRScript" for HP and Brother printers respectively to be able to tell the difference.

Which reminds me, that's one defence against obsolesence that's not so obvious: get a network printer, preferably not WiFi. Of course, these will not be entry-level printers. I just checked, the HP CM1312nfi MFP on my desk here at work was bought in 2009 and works with our newest computers just fine. I think it evens speaks Bonjour.

Wes


Edited by WesG (11/23/17 09:31 AM)
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Band Site: http://DrBombay.ca/

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#2892078 - 11/23/17 09:33 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: WesG]
WesG Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/16/13
Posts: 3126
Loc: Inverary, ON, Canada
PS - the next time I need to recycle some electronics and don't live some place with a recycling program, I'll be sure to mail it to you in California.

When we finally got a recycling program here about 5 years ago, I took a truck to the depot with 710Kg of saved up garbage in it. That's 1500 pounds or so. Mostly harddrives, but about six printers in there.

Wes
_________________________
Hammond: L111, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Band Site: http://DrBombay.ca/

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#2892081 - 11/23/17 09:45 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: WesG]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15591
FORGET PRINTERS. PRINTERS ARE EVIL. I HAVE PILES OF DEAD PRINTERS IN MY CLOSET. NO MATTER WHAT NEW PRINTER YOU BUY, IT WILL SOON DIE.

I THOUGHT I COULD SWITCH TO LASER PRINTERS AND GET PAST DRIED INK PROBLEMS. BUT NOOOOOOOOOO!

MY LASER PRINTER IS WIRELESS. IT WORKED FOR 2 MONTHS, NOW FAILS TO CONNECT TO MY COMPUTER.

DIE PRINTERS DIE DIE DIE.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2892087 - 11/23/17 10:34 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
Synthoid Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9752
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Don't candy-coat it... how do you really feel? laugh
_________________________
To stop the flow of music would be like the stopping of time itself, incredible and inconceivable.
-- Aaron Copland

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#2892088 - 11/23/17 10:44 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: mate stubb]
lightbg Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 573
Loc: Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
Joe,

I've used a HP7310xi for about 8 or so years now. The one trick I've learned about cartridge longevity is simple: never shut it off. Apparently there's an initialization process that uses up ink on startup even though it's not printing. I do a fair amount of black and white for music but my wife likes to print out photos. It actually came with a grey photo cart and I've never used it.
I know this doesn't answer your Q. but I have tossed around the ink jet/laser debate and I still haven't made up my mind. I think I'll just run this one into the ground and then hire a monk...........

Jake
_________________________
1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP

"It needs a Hammond"

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#2892127 - 11/23/17 02:03 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
Happy Birthday CowboyNQ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 640
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: Joe BrokeIt

1) Do laser printer toner cartridges last a long time when they're not used? I'm seeing mixed things online about whether they dry or harden.

2) Are there inexpensive laser printers that are worth it for small uses like this? The thing has to last. I don't see spending several hundred dollars with my limited uses but I've seen decent reviews on a couple of models below $100.

I bought a (then cheap) AUD500 HP laser printer for infrequent home use in 2003. It lasted until 2014. I probably rotated the entire cartridge set somewhere between two-three times over that period.

I assume with improvements in technology modern ones would perform way better than that.

Disclaimer: I now use an EPSON inkjet MFD, as although I was happy with the laser, I couldn't beat the bang for buck of the inkjet when I went shopping

Disclaimer for the disclaimer: The motherboard on my MFD had a catastrophic failure after about 13 months. I had to get the entire unit replaced. Credit to EPSON, the thing was one month out of warranty and they replaced it as a goodwill gesture.

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#2892131 - 11/23/17 02:37 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: CowboyNQ]
ksoper Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 3064
Loc: Murfreesboro,TN,UNITED STATES
We just bought a Brother 9340 color laser, about $330. I'll never buy another inkjet and I sure as hell won't buy another HP product. (You can literally buy a new printer for what it costs to replace OEM ink.) I can't speak to long-term use of the Brother but at least it prints. More importantly, it prints from my wife's Windows 8.1 laptop. HP said the driver for the 8500 OfficeJet supported Win 8-10 but I'm not convinced. She became increasingly angered at her inability to print. To paraphrase Bruce Banner, you wouldn't like her when she's angry. smile

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#2892149 - 11/23/17 04:35 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: ksoper]
Tom Williams Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 647
Loc: West Virginia
Chiming in as a professional technology whatchamacallit.

Laser printers ink will not dry out. However, some of the guts will eventually go. They're still less than half the cost of operation of an inkjet, and they're a lot faster at printing. For musical scores and text, a fine monochrome (B&W) laser printer can be had for as little as $100 US.

Inkjets travel a little better than laser printers if you're on the road. But they are designed to dry out as a rule. The cost for an inkjet-printed full page photograph can easily exceed $1 US. However, the best photo printers are inkjets, often with >10 different color cartridges to give a full color gamut. No laser printer can match that color fidelity.

HP gets negative brownie points because they designed inkjets so that as they ran out of ink they would require more power to pump the remaining ink out -- and then that power differential would mess up the X-Y head transport, eventually destroying the mechanism.

At my home all printing is currently done by a wonderful Dell networked duplexing color laser printer, purchased a couple of years ago for $200. I am a moderate-to-low user, and have gone through one black cartridge so far; only 20% usage of color cartridges at this time, so it's almost as cheap to operate as a B&W laser printer.

Experience in the school system has taught me to never ever ever buy or endorse a wireless printer. Network printer over TCP, yes; Wireless printer over Layer 2 (tech jargon) never never never.
_________________________
-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Synth
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#2892165 - 11/23/17 08:19 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: Tom Williams]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1199
Loc: Southern Calif.
My favorite review site, The Wirecutter, has a great write up on their best printers. They recommend an inexpensive b&w laser printer for most folks. I'm planning on picking one up soon. Ink Jet ones suck...disposable junk.

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-laser-printer/

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#2892169 - 11/23/17 08:35 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: zxcvbnm098]
Polkahero Offline
KCFF League Champ '15
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 1177
Loc: Michigan
Knock on wood but I've had my ink jet Dell V305 for probably 10 years now and it still works well. Of course I use it almost every day to print shipping labels so the ink never dries up. I usually get refurbished cartridges from Ebay for around $10 that last a long time.
_________________________
'57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, '64 Leslie 251, '77 Leslie 330, '80 Leslie 770, '64 Hammond PR-40
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Kawai MP7
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#2892171 - 11/23/17 08:46 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: zxcvbnm098]
MoodyBluesKeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 3291
Loc: eastern North Carolina
I got rid of the last inkjet in 2007. Ink cartridges dried up even if not used often.

I have 4 laser printers, all (but one) networked. I don't go for the cheapest because their laser cartridges typically are good for 1,000 to 3,000 pages and the ones made for "workgroup" use have 7,000 pages or so (B&W). Both types of cartridge are about the same price. USB one bought in 2009. Bought one network model in 2011, another in 2016 (used same model as 2011 one).
Also have a color laser, it uses 4 cartridges. I don't use it for routine B&W, and am still on the original cartridges. Purchased in April, 2007; so the cartridges have lasted for 10 years now.

I've had good results with HP business model printers. A couple of the major online vendors (Newegg and Tiger Direct) frequently have sales on models that for whatever reason didn't move. The color one was on a special from Staples, and cost me less than the retail of the four toner cartridges when I bought it new.

Don't ever want another laser printer that does not use cartridges. Changing drums is a pain, so is having to dump toner in manually. Also I use nothing but factory filled cartridges (warranty is voided if "refill" cartridges are used). If the cartridge has an "A" and "X" model, the X will print almost twice as many pages, and costs about 1.4 times as much.

Long life - the HP LaserJet 5M that I finally junked in 2016 was bought in the early 1990's. Eventually the fuser goes bad.
_________________________
Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
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"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
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#2892194 - 11/24/17 02:37 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: MoodyBluesKeys]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1543
I've been a laser fan for a long time. I think I'm on my third in about 15-20 years. Simple inexpensive B&W wired (originally parallel, then USB) and the toner cartridges last a long time.

Currently on Samsung, which is fine.

Cheers, Mike.
_________________________
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One or two keyboards.

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#2892288 - 11/24/17 06:04 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: stoken6]
onthecorner11 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/17
Posts: 9
I bought a laser printer 2 or 3 years ago. Just ran out of the starter cartridge a couple week ago. I've never had an ink jet printer cartridge last that long.

For me, a printer is something I need maybe 4 times a year, but when I need it, I really need it. For that reason I'm really glad I went for a laser printer. You can get them cheap these days, under $100.

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#2892293 - 11/24/17 07:06 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: onthecorner11]
bob_sd Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 42
Loc: CA
Brother monochrome laser 5200 series. $100-200. Supports duplex & wireless. I purchase refurbished cartridges for approx $25, lasts on avg 20,000 pages. Iíve printed over 200,000 pages on mine. Zero problems.

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#2892295 - 11/24/17 07:13 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: onthecorner11]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 969
Loc: San Diego CA, US
HP laser printers used to be fantastic and then after a string of 2-3 terrible ones I swore them off for good. Lately I've been a fan of Brother laser printers. I currently have two - a black and white one that's filled with address labels, and a color duplexing one for everyday printing. They've both been super reliable.

As for toner: they both use page count to determine when it's time to replace the toner, so whether a page prints all red or just has a red dot on it, apparently they count the same as far as the page count goes for red toner. Fortunately, Brother printers have a secret menu to reset the page counts, and I generally am able to reset the page counters 2 or 3 times before I actually notice that it's time to replace the toner.

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#2892305 - 11/24/17 09:50 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: OB Dave]
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2723
Loc: California
Printer cartridges: life span of a housefly, price-tag of a house.

It is officially cheaper just to buy a new printer each time the cartridges run dry, than to replace those cartridges.

And yet...somehow, cartridges still sell.
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#2892307 - 11/24/17 10:22 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: MathOfInsects]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 5053
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Pr
It is officially cheaper just to buy a new printer each time the cartridges run dry, than to replace those cartridges.

And yet...somehow, cartridges still sell.


Thats laughably true

I picked up a new HP Desk Jet 2132 at a garage sale for $10 ( they wanted $20, of course) early this year.

I have easily spent $80 on HP ink since then.
It helps that I can run it thru my business as an expense.

Just the same, I know I am doing exactly what HP wants.

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#2892309 - 11/24/17 10:43 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: GregC]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11316
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I used to use my all in one ink jet a lot more when I was printing band posters all the time and stuff like that. When we were still married, we picked printers that sued the same cartridges and seemed like we got decent life out of them. Printers went their separate ways in divorce and my all-in-one started acting up - mainly paper feed issues. So work sent me a new all-in-on that uses 4 cartridges (CMYK). Every time the yellow gets low it won't print, not even black. After replacing all the cartridges once, this last time I bought an extra big yellow.m. Why it's using up yellow to print black, I have no clue. I did, with other printers like my portable, also have issues with the cartridges drying up. My current problem is that my new laptop won't see my printer - not even plugged in directly ISB. It doesn't have a CD drive so I went online for the HP software, but when it gets to the part of looking for the printer, it's nowhere to be found. I've been making pdf's and printing from USB stick.

Sounds like color laser may be the way to go, but it also needs to be a decent all-in-one with a decent multi page feed - I do a lot of scanning and occasional copying....probably would no longer need a fax option.....I don't even have a phone line any more.
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2892313 - 11/24/17 11:34 PM Re: OT: Printers [Re: J. Dan]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5358
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
I've been using Brother all in ones for many years (their MFC series, I currently run an old MFC 7860dw), on my home network.

Every device on the network can print to it, macs and pcs alike.

Great experience w monochrome laser, and I've never liked inkjet.

When I really have to have something color (which is about twice a year), I'll go to the local Staples - everything else my needs are B/W and the Brother has served me well.
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

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#2892314 - 11/25/17 12:18 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: timwat]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11316
Loc: St. Louis, MO
I really need color because I print a lot of brochures and handouts for work, but I'll check out Brother.
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2892358 - 11/25/17 09:21 AM Re: OT: Printers [Re: J. Dan]
Joe BrokeIt Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19169
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Thanks for the responses so far, everyone. You've a) confirmed that laser is a better option than inkjet for what I am looking to do, and 2) given me some brands and models to consider.

thu

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