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#2896012 - 12/14/17 05:25 PM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
sherry Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 163
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Marillo
I would find the five favourites too limiting for live use and there are only something like 128 presets to choose from.

256 factory presets plus 1024 user presets for programs. Another 1024 user presets for multis. You can access them directly with the 10-key keypad.


So, it's a kind of roundabout way of having 15 Favorites buttons.

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#2896013 - 12/14/17 05:45 PM Re: SP6 [Re: sherry]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: sherry
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
256 factory presets plus 1024 user presets for programs. Another 1024 user presets for multis. You can access them directly with the 10-key keypad.

So, it's a kind of roundabout way of having 15 Favorites buttons.

Yes and no.

A roundabout way of having 15 Favorite buttons--i.e. sounds you can select instantly with a single button-press--is to use the 5 Favorite buttons, plus define the 10 Category buttons to call up your favorite Programs for those categories (the SP6 does allow you to define which Program comes up by default when you hit its category button).

But when I talked about accessing 1024 sounds directly via the keypad, those are not through single-button recall (obviously, you don't have 1024 buttons)... in that mode, you enter the program number followed by the Enter key. So it does take multiple button presses (i.e. 6-4-enter to call up patch 64). Still, it does let you get to lots of sounds pretty efficiently. (This just based on my reading of the manual, since I haven't yet seen an SP6 in the flesh.)
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#2896023 - 12/14/17 08:09 PM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I have to assume you can have the next patch number sitting there waiting for an Enter as well. Which ultimately becomes a one button press when you need it.

Also, it appears that patches created for PC3 (shared sample sets) can be brought over - I'm assuming via the editor app? - and stored in user patch banks. And it appears the VA-1 framework (built on VAST) is present. I'm guessing patches created for VA-1 can also be shared via the editor?
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#2896026 - 12/14/17 09:15 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I have to assume you can have the next patch number sitting there waiting for an Enter as well. Which ultimately becomes a one button press when you need it.

Also, it appears that patches created for PC3 (shared sample sets) can be brought over - I'm assuming via the editor app? - and stored in user patch banks. And it appears the VA-1 framework (built on VAST) is present. I'm guessing patches created for VA-1 can also be shared via the editor?


The SP6 should be able to load PC3 programs no problem. You'll probably have to tweak and set the knobs on some of them as the entry values might not get ported.

Yes all the current stuff - Forte, Forte SE and SP6 have the VA oscillators under the hood. Synth programs in SP have the most relevant params assigned to the knobs: filter, res, env attack and release, effects stuff like phaser/chorus wet/dry, distortion drive (when applicable), reverb amount, etc.

Don't know too much about the desktop editor. I was under the impression that it might be good for importing sounds but won't do full synth editing. Will try to find out.



Edited by Dave Weiser (12/14/17 09:16 PM)

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#2896056 - 12/15/17 05:14 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I have to assume you can have the next patch number sitting there waiting for an Enter as well. Which ultimately becomes a one button press when you need it.

...assuming there's no "time out" on the Enter function.
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#2896072 - 12/15/17 07:11 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 600
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser


Don't know too much about the desktop editor. I was under the impression that it might be good for importing sounds but won't do full synth editing. Will try to find out.


Hope that the promised IOS editor for the SP6 will not just ba a false promise like the long missing IOS editor update for the Artis.... sorry for repeating this over and over again. It's in hope that someone at Kurzweil or Soundtower will finally listen to my endless complaint...

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#2896077 - 12/15/17 07:21 AM Re: SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
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How about having full real-time control panel functionality on a connected ipad?


Edited by Coker (12/15/17 07:22 AM)
Edit Reason: Typo
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#2896080 - 12/15/17 07:33 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I have to assume you can have the next patch number sitting there waiting for an Enter as well. Which ultimately becomes a one button press when you need it.

Also, it appears that patches created for PC3 (shared sample sets) can be brought over - I'm assuming via the editor app? - and stored in user patch banks. And it appears the VA-1 framework (built on VAST) is present. I'm guessing patches created for VA-1 can also be shared via the editor?


The SP6 should be able to load PC3 programs no problem. You'll probably have to tweak and set the knobs on some of them as the entry values might not get ported.

Yes all the current stuff - Forte, Forte SE and SP6 have the VA oscillators under the hood. Synth programs in SP have the most relevant params assigned to the knobs: filter, res, env attack and release, effects stuff like phaser/chorus wet/dry, distortion drive (when applicable), reverb amount, etc.

Don't know too much about the desktop editor. I was under the impression that it might be good for importing sounds but won't do full synth editing. Will try to find out.



If they don't want to offer full VA-1 editing at this price point it would be cool to have a way too load in new patches via the software and make patch libraries available for purchase/download. That should pay for commissioning the designs - from legit devs that won't share the editor wink and get some added value buzz going for players.

At the same time... where's the synth action Forte? I'd dig a rack or desktop forte too.
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#2896089 - 12/15/17 08:12 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sherry Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 163
I copied this from another site regarding the desktop editor. I hope that's okay.

"The Desktop Editor will allow complete program, fx and multi edition and it will be the only way that you would be able to change things like FX Chains in a program, for example.

The SP line, "Stage Piano", is Kurzweil's most simple and easy line of pro keyboards. So, in the unit itself, you can do very simple stuff, but what you really get is a pretty awesome sound for a very affordable price.

For people that want to control more stuff inside the unit we have other products, like Forte or Forte SE.

Regards,
Fran"

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#2896114 - 12/15/17 10:01 AM Re: SP6 [Re: sherry]
gg22 Offline
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Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 123
A question for Dave W. In the SP6 manual there are less EP's than on the Forte and they have different names. Also when I played it I could only hear three velocity layers. I think on the Forte there are eight velocity layers? So will it be possible to load all EP's from Forte and will they sound the same?
Another question - is it possible to control drawbars values from a MIDI controller via CC messages?


Edited by gg22 (12/15/17 01:04 PM)

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#2896158 - 12/15/17 02:34 PM Re: SP6 [Re: gg22]
AnotherScott Online   content
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I'm not Dave W, but I'll say the answers are...

1) no, since SP6's 2 GB flashplay won't give you all the sounds of the Forte's 16 GB

2) yes, as all KB3 implementations have always supported MIDI CC control
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#2896189 - 12/15/17 06:14 PM Re: SP6 [Re: gg22]
jahfume Offline
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Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Oxon


Quote; "Also when I played it I could only hear three velocity layers."

Gawd! I would have hoped the velocity layers would not be noticeable at all.That would be like being back in 1998. frown

Though the latest OS update did include an item to smooth out velocity transisions but I think that was for the AP's.

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#2896207 - 12/15/17 08:49 PM Re: SP6 [Re: jahfume]
gg22 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 123
Originally Posted By: jahfume


Quote; "Also when I played it I could only hear three velocity layers."

Gawd! I would have hoped the velocity layers would not be noticeable at all.That would be like being back in 1998. frown

Though the latest OS update did include an item to smooth out velocity transisions but I think that was for the AP's.


Yeah, I could clearly hear layers transition, not sure if Forte is the same.

Good to know about the drawbars MIDI control, as for the lack of space on SP6 - I would be happy if I could load one high quality EP from the Forte. 2GB should be enough for that?

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#2896209 - 12/15/17 09:19 PM Re: SP6 [Re: gg22]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: gg22
A question for Dave W. In the SP6 manual there are less EP's than on the Forte and they have different names. Also when I played it I could only hear three velocity layers. I think on the Forte there are eight velocity layers? So will it be possible to load all EP's from Forte and will they sound the same?
Another question - is it possible to control drawbars values from a MIDI controller via CC messages?


There are actually 8 velocity layers of samples in the SP6/ForteSE Rhodes. I just worked with them making a little custom set of SP6 sounds. (Used a ForteSE to create the programs.)

And those 8 are just the actual pitched Rhodes samples; you've also got thumps, squeaks, extra harmonics and all manner of additional stuff (much of it randomized) going on in those programs, around 30 layers in most cases (not all playing simultaneously). Think of it as "modeling", but done by hand, by a human instead of a computer.

The SP6 programs use the same samples as the Forte SE, both have 2GB of reduced versions of some of the Forte's larger samples. The SP6 cannot load the programs from the Forte that use the Forte's larger samples.

KB3 drawbars should definitely respond to MIDI.

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#2896224 - 12/16/17 05:08 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 275
Loc: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Dave, thank you so much for the excellent voice architecture explanation, and also for the additional information located on your website. I think for me, it is going to come down to the action/playability, and the ultimate availability of the IOS editor.

One question......would it be possible to control the KB3 organs remotely from an external "9 slider" MIDI controller?
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#2896251 - 12/16/17 10:40 AM Re: SP6 [Re: The_Star_Guy]
hipogrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 72
Loc: East Northport,NY
Hi

The SP6 KB3 programs have some predefined MIDI CCs for the Drawbars and other KB3 controls but it also lets the user reassign those MIDI CCs so, in case your external MIDI Drawbar controller is clunky and sends fixed CCs, you still have a way to make it work.

BTW, the electric pianos on FlashPlay products (Forte, Forte SE, SP6 and CUP310/320) are, in my biased opinion, outstanding.

Regards,
Fran
p.s.- Yes, I work at Kurzweil, but opinions and comments in forums are just mine.

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#2896325 - 12/17/17 12:42 AM Re: SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5703
Loc: Lansing, MI
Got my SP6 today thanks to Weisersound.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/WS4LA[/img]

I unboxed it, hooked up my camera, and did a livestream on FB before I even touched the keys.

https://www.facebook.com/jim.alfredson.3/videos/10213023888129319/

The FB livestream protocol really mucks up the sound. When I play the piano really light, FB completely cuts the audio off; as if it's going through a gate. It also uses really bad data compression. Next time I'm going to do a YouTube livestream.

After messing around for 30 minutes, I put it in a hardcase and took it to the gig tonight. It performed flawlessly and sounded great! I used the acoustic piano (the 7' one, preset 2), the phaser Rhodes sound, the regular suitcase Rhodes, the Wurly, and the Clavinet. I also did a split on the fly as the bassist wanted to play pedal steel on a tune. So I did a P-bass sound in the left hand and piano on the right. It was easy to set up (basically a button press.. or to be more precise, pressing two buttons together). I played it through my pair of Yamaha DXR10 powered speakers. It was full and present and the top end of the pianos really cut well.

The action is very responsive and easy to play. The Forte action is better, yes, but for the price and weight, it's really good.

Build quality is excellent. It's all plastic like similar offerings from Casio, Yamaha, etc. But it's solid. The buttons are really nice. The knobs are especially good. No side to side wiggling. They feel much better than stuff in this price range usually feels. The layout is logical and easy to navigate. The screen is bright and easy to read.

So far my only beef is that I wish the volume knob had a light around it. It's a bit hard to find in the dark, especially underneath the Hammond on a dual-tier setup. But I'm sure I'll get used to where it is.

It comes with a full-sized Kurzweil sustain pedal. Wall-wart PSU. Balance 1/4" audio outputs, just like the Forte. Same 32bit DACs, too. The sound is clean and dynamic. Expression pedal input. Two switched pedal inputs, SW1 supports half-damper. Both SW1 and SW1 pedal inputs accept dual-pedal units. 1/4' headphone out.

The bottom plastic piece is kind of a Ford blue color. It's pretty slick looking.

All in all, this is a fantastic 88 note stage piano with weighted keyboard in the $1k-ish category. I'm really happy with it. Just because of the weight, it will probably be my go-to digital piano for a lot of my gigs. I love the Forte, but between that and the Hammond XK5 Pro System, that's a lot of weight! However, the Forte sounds SO good. Definitely for higher profile gigs, I'll be using the Forte. But for stuff like tonight (a blues club in Ann Arbor), the SP6 fits the bill perfectly.
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#2896329 - 12/17/17 01:45 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Jim Alfredson]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 600
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Got my SP6 today thanks to Weisersound.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/WS4LA[/img]

I unboxed it, hooked up my camera, and did a livestream on FB before I even touched the keys.

https://www.facebook.com/jim.alfredson.3/videos/10213023888129319/

The FB livestream protocol really mucks up the sound. When I play the piano really light, FB completely cuts the audio off; as if it's going through a gate. It also uses really bad data compression. Next time I'm going to do a YouTube livestream.

After messing around for 30 minutes, I put it in a hardcase and took it to the gig tonight. It performed flawlessly and sounded great! I used the acoustic piano (the 7' one, preset 2), the phaser Rhodes sound, the regular suitcase Rhodes, the Wurly, and the Clavinet. I also did a split on the fly as the bassist wanted to play pedal steel on a tune. So I did a P-bass sound in the left hand and piano on the right. It was easy to set up (basically a button press.. or to be more precise, pressing two buttons together). I played it through my pair of Yamaha DXR10 powered speakers. It was full and present and the top end of the pianos really cut well.

The action is very responsive and easy to play. The Forte action is better, yes, but for the price and weight, it's really good.

Build quality is excellent. It's all plastic like similar offerings from Casio, Yamaha, etc. But it's solid. The buttons are really nice. The knobs are especially good. No side to side wiggling. They feel much better than stuff in this price range usually feels. The layout is logical and easy to navigate. The screen is bright and easy to read.

So far my only beef is that I wish the volume knob had a light around it. It's a bit hard to find in the dark, especially underneath the Hammond on a dual-tier setup. But I'm sure I'll get used to where it is.

It comes with a full-sized Kurzweil sustain pedal. Wall-wart PSU. Balance 1/4" audio outputs, just like the Forte. Same 32bit DACs, too. The sound is clean and dynamic. Expression pedal input. Two switched pedal inputs, SW1 supports half-damper. Both SW1 and SW1 pedal inputs accept dual-pedal units. 1/4' headphone out.

The bottom plastic piece is kind of a Ford blue color. It's pretty slick looking.

All in all, this is a fantastic 88 note stage piano with weighted keyboard in the $1k-ish category. I'm really happy with it. Just because of the weight, it will probably be my go-to digital piano for a lot of my gigs. I love the Forte, but between that and the Hammond XK5 Pro System, that's a lot of weight! However, the Forte sounds SO good. Definitely for higher profile gigs, I'll be using the Forte. But for stuff like tonight (a blues club in Ann Arbor), the SP6 fits the bill perfectly.


Thanks for the review! Did you miss the front panel EQ?

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#2896330 - 12/17/17 01:49 AM Re: SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
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I thought I would, as I have used the Forte's many times live. But I didn't need it on this particular gig. We'll see how tomorrow goes!
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#2896343 - 12/17/17 04:50 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Electro Fan Offline
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Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 456
Loc: Maine
Jim,

Thanks for your thoughts about the SP6. As I know you have gigged with the Casio PX-5S, could you compare the feel and playability of the SP6’ action to that of the Casio?

No store in the state of Maine will have the SP6 to demo.

Thanks,
Bill
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#2896358 - 12/17/17 07:05 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Electro Fan]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Ditto. PX-5S vs SP6 action preference.
Also in lieu of the EQ controls on front panel how did they implement?
(Downloading manual now).
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#2896370 - 12/17/17 08:03 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 600
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Ditto. PX-5S vs SP6 action preference.
Also in lieu of the EQ controls on front panel how did they implement?
(Downloading manual now).


The SP6 doesn‘t seem to have a master EQ at all according to the comparison chart (no Master FX):

http://kurzweil.com/knowledgebase/forte/product_comparisons/311/

With so much more FX horse power than the PC3 it should be possible to implement this. I think it‘s essential for a stage piano.


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#2896379 - 12/17/17 08:50 AM Re: SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Yeah, I just read through the manual, I'm not seeing a master eq either.
Stinky place to cut corners.
Maybe possible in an update?
Even a low, high, and sweepable mid would be preferable to nothing.

Would be pairing this with a light weight amp a powered PA monitor which typically doesn't have EQ. Or SSv3 which has little control.
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#2896391 - 12/17/17 09:39 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Front panel master EQ is nice, but if you're feeding a powered PA monitor or SSv3, there's a good chance you'll be using a mixer anyway, so you can also get EQ there. An Alesis Multimix8 has 2 channels of 3 band with sweepable mid and 2 channels of 3 band with fixed mid. I was looking at that as a likely pick when I was thinking of going with a SSv3, for the sweepable mids and small enough size that it could probably be velcro'd to the SS.
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#2896396 - 12/17/17 10:11 AM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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I wish radial had gone a step further on the KeyLargo with EQ.
They could probably do a nice Radial build and sonic quality stereo EQ box.

But yeah... ok, so I have my VR-700 and the SP6 say run to something like the Allen and Heath ZED10 or better ($249). Beneath this point the mixers only have H and L knobs in the channel strip, or the addition of H,M,L. The 10 gives a sweepable mid. Next topic of the week - best small form factor mixers with flexible eq control.
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#2896411 - 12/17/17 11:27 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yeah, I just read through the manual, I'm not seeing a master eq either.
Stinky place to cut corners.
Maybe possible in an update?
Even a low, high, and sweepable mid would be preferable to nothing.

Would be pairing this with a light weight amp a powered PA monitor which typically doesn't have EQ. Or SSv3 which has little control.


SP6 doesn't have a dedicated global EQ, but has something that's pretty useful.

Adding a set of knobs adds cost - way more than you'd expect. The cost of components was the biggest surprise for me when I got hired there back in 2000. When manufacturing on a tiny scale (thousands not millions of units), every tiny little thing is a pound of flesh so to speak. It made product planning really tricky and sometimes painful.

The cost thing is all the more challenging for an outfit like Kurz, where they're using high quality balanced outs, multiple pedal inputs, killer EQs and filters, and super quiet samples - all areas where other companies often decide to cut costs.

Most of the SP6 programs have an EQ in their list of virtual parameters. In some cases they're already assigned to the knobs. In other cases you'll need to assign them to a row of knobs.

Extra credit granted for reading the manual. That's 2 rounds of Irish Car Bombs if I run into you sometime. wink

[Note: To be 100% clear for anyone just tuning in, I no longer work for Kurzweil R&D. Was there 2000-2013. I still see the R&D guys frequently, they're just down the road. But I definitely don't speak for Kurz in any way.]

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#2896413 - 12/17/17 11:34 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
But yeah... ok, so I have my VR-700 and the SP6 say run to something like the Allen and Heath ZED10 or better ($249). Beneath this point the mixers only have H and L knobs in the channel strip, or the addition of H,M,L. The 10 gives a sweepable mid.

Like I said, that Alesis has sweepable mid, albeit only on the first two channels... much smaller and cheaper. But I have little doubt that the ZED is a much better mixer than the Alesis. If the difference in size and budget isn't an issue, sure, I'd go for the ZED. Or a Soundcraft, like the EPM6 or Signature 10. Probably the latter, for the effects. It's convenient to have reverb in the board.
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#2896414 - 12/17/17 11:42 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Most of the SP6 programs have an EQ in their list of virtual parameters. In some cases they're already assigned to the knobs. In other cases you'll need to assign them to a row of knobs.

Yup, page 3.1 of the manual, "For all Programs, the assignable parameters can be set to control EQ parameters." Not really a Master EQ function, though (between being program-specific, and not also available in a Multi)... but like I said, that kind of Master EQ is often available on someone's mixer/amp. (There are also things like little MXR EQ pedals which I suppose you could put on the outputs, though I don't know if anyone makes a stereo one.)
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#2896451 - 12/17/17 01:19 PM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Thanks, Dave and Scott.

This is a decent work around for me, as the biggest issue is going to be adjusting my favorite acoustic piano sound to room when playing solo or with a sax, bass and/or drums - no PA system. If I can set this up on a user preset that's fine.
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#2896454 - 12/17/17 01:26 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Rusty Mike Offline
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Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 866
Loc: Central NJ
.


Edited by Rusty Mike (12/17/17 01:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Too far off topic
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Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living

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