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#2889857 - 11/12/17 06:38 AM Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response
teashea Offline
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Registered: 06/24/17
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Does anyone know of any good measurement comparison between the bass response of a 3300 v a 122? I have a 3300 and it is well known that there is little bass below 50 hertz. I don't mind that for my purposes but I was curious about a 122.

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#2889859 - 11/12/17 06:48 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: teashea]
CEB Offline
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Sans sub the 122 has a nicer bottom end. With a sub connected the 3300 can provide ridiculous bass.
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#2889892 - 11/12/17 10:10 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: CEB]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Thew new Leslie 3300 cabinet has bass for days. The old MDF cabinet does not. But that it can be augmented with a sub.
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#2889896 - 11/12/17 10:48 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
CEB Offline
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That sucks. I want a free upgrade. laugh


Edited by CEB (11/12/17 12:43 PM)
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#2889898 - 11/12/17 10:51 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
bill bosco Offline
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Registered: 01/20/14
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been wondering about the weight of the plywood 3300 as
opposed to the MDF version . i figure there should be at
least 10 to 15 lbs difference but as i far as know
H.S's weight specs haven't changed . besides the better
tone shouldn't it be considerately lighter ?

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#2889927 - 11/12/17 01:17 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
dboomer Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Thew new Leslie 3300 cabinet has bass for days. The old MDF cabinet does not. But that it can be augmented with a sub.


Did they change the Woofer as that is not typical. Usually if nothing else changed the MDF should have superior low frequency response.

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#2889943 - 11/12/17 02:57 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
Six-string-man Offline
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I believe that they changed the driver. Not sure about the woofer.
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#2889959 - 11/12/17 04:27 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Six-string-man]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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The plywood cabinet is lighter, yes.

They did not change the woofer. MDF is very dense and does not resonate. Plywood resonates. Hence the difference in bass response.
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#2889974 - 11/12/17 05:51 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
dboomer Offline
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Yes, but the fact that the cabinet resonates means the energy that could have been audio level was wasted vibrating the cabinet so that is why there should be less bass output.

There may also be other changes in production responsible for the difference.


Edited by dboomer (11/12/17 06:01 PM)

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#2889976 - 11/12/17 06:14 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Now I'm a bit confused. I thought both versions were available currently as variants? When I look at GC's site, I see a confusing array of Leslie models, and Sweetwater has more models shown, but isn't much less confusing.

I've been thinking about finally adding a Leslie to my own arsenal, and the 3300 is in the top three of the ones I am actually considering, but I find the entire product line awfully confusing, so hearing some of these "missing details" here is very helpful.
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#2889980 - 11/12/17 06:38 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Originally Posted By: dboomer
Yes, but the fact that the cabinet resonates means the energy that could have been audio level was wasted vibrating the cabinet so that is why there should be less bass output.

There may also be other changes in production responsible for the difference.


I'm not trying to be snarky, but I think you need to read up on how acoustics work, specifically resonators and acoustic coupling. For example, there's a reason why piano soundboards are made of very light weight spruce and not MDF. The same theory is at work in speaker cabinets.
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#2889981 - 11/12/17 06:39 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Now I'm a bit confused. I thought both versions were available currently as variants? When I look at GC's site, I see a confusing array of Leslie models, and Sweetwater has more models shown, but isn't much less confusing.


Hammond switched cabinets about two years ago. If you buy one new and it has and MDF cabinet, then it's not actually new but old stock. The 3300 and the Studio 12 cabinets are all made of plywood now.
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#2889983 - 11/12/17 06:59 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
dboomer Offline
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Jim ... not to be snarky back. Its always hard when a new guy shows up on a forum. My background is as a professional speaker designer for many years and headed the design team for a great number of the designs for Peavey among others.

The simple physics are it takes energy to resonate that cabinet. And that energy came from the motion of the speaker. Most became acoustic energy by some was wasted off as heat and some as vibration. But those that became heat or vibration never made it to your ears. smile

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#2889986 - 11/12/17 07:06 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
mate stubb Offline
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But if the cabinet vibrates, doesn't that couple to the external air and hence to your ear?
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#2889993 - 11/12/17 08:47 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: mate stubb]
dboomer Offline
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The answer is yes, but only an incidental amount. Most of that vibration is converted to heat but some is acoustic vibration ... but again at a great loss. In order to make it add to the sound you would have to apply aditional energy which would take amplification.

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#2890001 - 11/13/17 12:01 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Jim, thanks for clarifying. You managed to clear up 100% of my confusion in one simple statement. Now I understand where Leslie is headed with their product line-up and tiers; I hadn't paid attention for a few years so missed some of those interim models and didn't know which was which!
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#2890003 - 11/13/17 02:47 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
CEB Offline
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Originally Posted By: dboomer
The answer is yes, but only an incidental amount. Most of that vibration is converted to heat but some is acoustic vibration ... but again at a great loss. In order to make it add to the sound you would have to apply aditional energy which would take amplification.


Yes but that is perfectly fine because tone trumps efficiency in the case of instrument amplification. Especially in guitar or bass amplification. You can want the baffle to breathe a little to get that British bottom push on a closed back cabinet. Efficiency is not a concern because guitar amps are too damn loud anyway. Baltic birch plywood is the only material I wood use for my cabinets. It is sort of the same kind of deal on the 3300. It screams, it's a 300 watt Leslie but ..... the Master volume does a good job of creating controlling the beast but where is the fun in that. The old proline Leslies like the 860 didn't give you an accessible master volume.
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#2890055 - 11/13/17 10:02 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: CEB]
Six-string-man Offline
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Baltic birch plywood is the only material I wood use for my cabinets.


Nice pun CEB.
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#2890236 - 11/14/17 10:41 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
analogholic Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 800
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Now I'm a bit confused. I thought both versions were available currently as variants? When I look at GC's site, I see a confusing array of Leslie models, and Sweetwater has more models shown, but isn't much less confusing.


Hammond switched cabinets about two years ago. If you buy one new and it has and MDF cabinet, then it's not actually new but old stock. The 3300 and the Studio 12 cabinets are all made of plywood now.


Aha thanks!...if I would happen to find a used one for sale...is it easy to tell which is which? Is there a serial no from where the plywood one is made?
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#2890237 - 11/14/17 10:45 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: analogholic]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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The easiest would be to pull the middle panel and look at the edges. MDF is perfectly smooth, almost plastic, while the plywood will be... well, plywood.
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#2890239 - 11/14/17 10:54 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: Jim Alfredson]
analogholic Offline
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Registered: 12/26/06
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Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
The easiest would be to pull the middle panel and look at the edges. MDF is perfectly smooth, almost plastic, while the plywood will be... well, plywood.


Thanks man! thu
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#2890983 - 11/17/17 07:50 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: analogholic]
dboomer Offline
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Registered: 02/08/16
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So i got out the RTA and measured both the 122 and the 3300 (plywood) today. Turns out the output at 50Hz and below is almost identical. If someone can point me towards how to attach photos Iíll post the results. But basically there is zero difference

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#2890994 - 11/17/17 08:53 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: dboomer
If someone can point me towards how to attach photos Iíll post the results.


This forum doesn't handle attachments. It's old and creaky and we like it that way. You will need to host the image on a server or service somewhere.
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#2891136 - Yesterday at 02:23 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: mate stubb]
dboomer Offline
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Registered: 02/08/16
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Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
If your driver has a metal diaphragm, you have the wrong kind of driver in your Leslie. Get a driver with a phenolic diaphragm instead.

Your organ has nothing that you want amplified above 4-5K. None of the original speakers or Leslies reproduced anything above that either.


Popped out the driver (PA50-D) from the 3300. It is indeed a phenolic type. But when i measure the frequency response it produces almost one full additional higher octave than the 122 (60ís model).

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#2891146 - Yesterday at 04:12 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
WesG Offline
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Ouch. If that thing is linear up to 12kHz, you're going to get a pile of keyclick.
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#2891173 - Yesterday at 09:33 PM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: WesG]
dboomer Offline
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Loc: SoCal
Ok, Iím confused how my last comment ended up in this thread??

Wes - itís not exactly linear but it has as much output at 8khz as the 122 does at 4khz.

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#2891209 - Today at 08:02 AM Re: Leslie 3300 v 122 bass response [Re: dboomer]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: dboomer
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
If your driver has a metal diaphragm, you have the wrong kind of driver in your Leslie. Get a driver with a phenolic diaphragm instead.

Your organ has nothing that you want amplified above 4-5K. None of the original speakers or Leslies reproduced anything above that either.


Popped out the driver (PA50-D) from the 3300. It is indeed a phenolic type. But when i measure the frequency response it produces almost one full additional higher octave than the 122 (60ís model).


That is very interesting. I wonder if the amplifier has a high frequency rolloff.

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