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#2889532 - 11/10/17 08:05 AM POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both?
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Picking up from the thread "Anyone here gigging with a MIDI controller+laptop?" (and it being such a frequent topic here, in one way or another), I thought it would be interesting to get a current cross-section, albeit not entirely scientific...

Q: Most often, what do you use as your sound source for live gigs?

Note that I am talking about sound sources only. If you're using an iOS device for patch management, MIDI routing, charts, etc. that doesn't qualify it as a sound source. ;-)

ETA: I know you might not always use the same rig. Please choose what you are currently using most often.

...and one more edit. If you use hardware that has sounds but you don't use those sounds at all (i.e. they would be used for emergency backup only), don't count that as a sound source.



What sound sources do you gig with?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted starting: 11/10/17 07:55 AM
View the results of this poll.


Edited by AnotherScott (11/10/17 03:18 PM)
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#2889560 - 11/10/17 09:52 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
hardware Offline
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Hardware synths and FX plus a 1U PC.



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#2889565 - 11/10/17 10:06 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: hardware]
FJR Offline
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Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 424
Loc: SF Bay

It could use one more entry: "Depends on the Gig"

I use hardware only with one band, and only pc with another (the midi keyboard is provided)

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#2889569 - 11/10/17 10:13 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: FJR]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: FJR

It could use one more entry: "Depends on the Gig"

I use hardware only with one band, and only pc with another (the midi keyboard is provided)



That's my answer as well. There are two gig on which I do not bring the Mainstage rig. Both are summer, outdoor, no shade 95 degrees. direct sun..... smile
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#2889573 - 11/10/17 10:35 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Adam Burgess Offline
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Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 250
Well, thru some state of affairs... I have a last minute dep gig this Monday where I'm on a Numa Stage 88 plus my Integra-7 and MainStage. It's a good venue, so worth doing even though I have to program PitBull type things....

I'm used to a Nord Stage and a Kronos or two, which can just do anything I ask of it in minutes.

It's a three fold learner - I get Mainstage mostly, the editors for the Roland are terrible; the Numa, as a controller, is playable thru headphones. The keyed is really noisy and slooooooow and the MIDI implementation is crappy.

Mainstage doing a great job do far keeping everything together. I'm having a few issues regarding concert/set/patch assign hierarchy issue things.... (more questions to follow, probably…).

But - MIDI/USB I/O seems stable on my 2011 MacBook Air. I don't dare run Komplete live. Hence the Integra.

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#2889574 - 11/10/17 10:36 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: EscapeRocks]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: FJR

It could use one more entry: "Depends on the Gig"

That's my answer as well.

That's why my question was "Most often, what do you use as your sound source for live gigs?"
But I should have put that in the header line of the poll as well!
I tried to edit that, but I don't think I can.
Of course, someone will then say it's exactly a 50/50 split... ;-)
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#2889590 - 11/10/17 12:01 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
Jazz+ Offline
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No racks, just 1 light board if I am the roadie!
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#2889607 - 11/10/17 12:49 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Jazz+]
CEB Offline
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Posts: 12523
Live .... Hardware only.

Studio, mostly soft sounds. Practically everything is soft pianos plus Massive, FM7 and a few other soft synths.
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#2889622 - 11/10/17 01:33 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: CEB]
Stokely Offline
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Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1601
Loc: Florida
Same here. Live, hardware only.

Home, software only grin I'll never go back to cabling midi and audio, and patch changes--you can't make me! Once I had a moog on a dropdown menu--nah, change my mind, b3 organ--game over.

I have dabbled with laptops at practice, both pc and mac...and every time got spooked due to issues.

I'm a believer in have a backup for everything; ironically, one of my hardware keyboards fritzed out one night but I use two so I limped by. So if I ever did go IOS or laptop, I'd still have to have a backup. Either an entirely complete backup rig ($ouch, if laptop$) that sits there and does nothing until a problem, or a hardware keyboard as a controller. Well, then I have to wire up the hardware....and if I'm going that far, why not just wire up two and be done! grin

I am aiming for small footprint and quick setup/teardown, that has been another factor for me. I work a day job and sometimes have very little time to setup (on a Friday). I don't want a rack or lots of little fiddly connections. Even though I love Logic Pro (mainstage) and my virtual instruments on mac, I'd lean Ipad simply for the logistics. I could velcro the darn thing somewhere, or attach it to my mic stand.
Three times drunks have gotten up on stage with us, once in a rolling brawl that destroyed some equipment, so I worry about a laptop a bit (and theft as well).

Every so often I start thinking about mixing in an ipad or laptop. So far I just don't think the extra hassle is worth the flexibility and sound advantage. It could still happen though, especially with gear like the Key Largo that would let me have my submixer and interface in one.

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#2889630 - 11/10/17 02:20 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: FJR

It could use one more entry: "Depends on the Gig"

That's my answer as well.

That's why my question was "Most often, what do you use as your sound source for live gigs?"
But I should have put that in the header line of the poll as well!
I tried to edit that, but I don't think I can.
Of course, someone will then say it's exactly a 50/50 split... ;-)


LOL okay. smile

96/4% Split VST only to Hardware only. grin
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Roland Fantom X6 | Mainstage |


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#2889632 - 11/10/17 02:37 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Markay Offline
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Read my Sig.
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#2889646 - 11/10/17 03:46 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Markay]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Markay
Read my Sig.

So where does the XK3C fit in? Just as B5 controller?

A bit unexpected to see Pianoteq in a rig with no keyboard of more than 61 keys! But hey, if it does the job...
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#2889647 - 11/10/17 03:50 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Markay]
David Emm Offline
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Registered: 09/14/12
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Loc: Oz. Its too damned green.
I was one of those brave souls who did shows with only a Korg 01W, so I watch all of the current proceedings with interest. (Aidan's recent gig is an impressive gem, attaboy!) I've been into Logic for a decade plus now, so I can easily understand the love for Mainstage and Cantible. You take your chances with *all* of it, but as with many cars, its amazing how long most music gear performs. Its still largely about your drive to hit the stage in the first place. Its like a line from Mark Millar's book "Wanted:" "The difference between a dream and a nightmare is how big your balls are b*tch."
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#2889656 - 11/10/17 05:51 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: David Emm]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1999
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
I guess I'm anti-modern. I play with hardware only, albeit it's bar band stuff only. The idea of hauling a server and all the associated frippery just gives me the willies. Maybe it sounds better, who cares? Ain't getting paid much.

BTW, if you google me, you'll find out I've made my career in IT tech. Strange, huh?
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#2889660 - 11/10/17 06:17 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
BTW, if you google me, you'll find out I've made my career in IT tech. Strange, huh?

If you go back approaching 30 years, I wrote a monthly column for MacWeek magazine. But I still gig almost always just with hardware.

I have occasionally integrated the iPad, I did that when I needed a better organ sound than I could get from the Jupiter 50. But for the most part, I'm not tremendously fussy about sound. My priority is lightweight boards with decent action and operational ergonomics, and having brought those to the gig, the sounds are usually good enough that I don't need to bother with the additional complication of integrating a computer "just" for the sounds. Still, I am periodically tempted.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2889661 - 11/10/17 06:18 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
Markay Offline
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Registered: 01/28/12
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Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Markay
Read my Sig.

So where does the XK3C fit in? Just as B5 controller?

A bit unexpected to see Pianoteq in a rig with no keyboard of more than 61 keys! But hey, if it does the job...


The XK3c doesn't leave the house.

For the cover band rock pop stuff I play 61 keys works because I can set up the patches for each song with the required octaves available and take advantage of the floating split when things get tight. If there were an affordable 73/76 note USB powered lightweight controller available I would be all over it like a rash.

The heaviest item in my rig is my X stand with laptop holder attached.
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#2889665 - 11/10/17 06:48 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Markay]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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The young guys, in pop, rock, edm - what have you, original music... are gigging with laptop in many cases. But it's not what you'd think. It's not MainStage hosting their favorite AU/VST synth, organ, Rhodes patches whatever. Its tracks and loops, recreations of the studio tracks because that's what the audience wants to hear. And the music is so dependant upon that sound. The hook is the sound in many cases. Doesn't sound the same if it's not that sample with that delay effect through a bit crusher, etc. There's also dance music acts that are deep into the Roland Aira stuff that are running the sequences live through that MX-1 performance mixer. That type of act can be purely hardware or have Ableton patched in.
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#2889666 - 11/10/17 06:55 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Markay]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Markay
If there were an affordable 73/76 note USB powered lightweight controller available I would be all over it like a rash.

Numa Compact 2 is 88 keys, but only 15.6 lbs, USB-powered (as long as you don't use its built-in speakers), nice action, and even has aftertouch. Yamaha Piaggero is 76 keys and lighter... won't power from USB but will power from rechargeable AA so there's still no wall wart to deal with. But yeah, batteries, one more thing to worry about.
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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2889672 - 11/10/17 08:16 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
Markay Offline
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That's the dilemma I am wrestling with ATM. I would like a weighted 88 so I can hone my AP chops at home, but for most live gigs it is not essential and would not work for me as my only controller for organ, synth and other VI's. Plus it would need to equal or better the Axiom's number of faders, rotary encoders, buttons, pads and transport controls, which I map for patch up and down and patch +10 up and down.
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#2889674 - 11/10/17 08:30 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: cphollis]
Markay Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
I guess I'm anti-modern. I play with hardware only, albeit it's bar band stuff only. The idea of hauling a server and all the associated frippery just gives me the willies.

Server?, Kraftwerk is the only band I have seen that hauls a server around and that is mainly to sync and run their hi res 3D graphic show.

My day job would not exist were it not for what Intel, MS and others have brought to the table since 1989. Fair to say I owe a debt of gratitude to technology for allowing me to exist at the upper end of Maslow's hierarchy of needs ever since.

I see no reason to turn my back on technology for music. Software like MainStage and the plethora of VI's are tools that liberate me from 99% of the sonic and design compromises built into hardware boards.
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MainStage | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
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#2889692 - 11/10/17 11:50 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: AnotherScott]
hag01 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/16
Posts: 18
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: cphollis
BTW, if you google me, you'll find out I've made my career in IT tech. Strange, huh?

If you go back approaching 30 years, I wrote a monthly column for MacWeek magazine. But I still gig almost always just with hardware.

I have occasionally integrated the iPad, I did that when I needed a better organ sound than I could get from the Jupiter 50. But for the most part, I'm not tremendously fussy about sound. My priority is lightweight boards with decent action and operational ergonomics, and having brought those to the gig, the sounds are usually good enough that I don't need to bother with the additional complication of integrating a computer "just" for the sounds. Still, I am periodically tempted.


What is your lightweight gigging board of choice?

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#2889741 - 11/11/17 10:11 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: cphollis]
Reezekeys Offline
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Loc: NYC area
Originally Posted By: cphollis
I guess I'm anti-modern. I play with hardware only, albeit it's bar band stuff only. The idea of hauling a server and all the associated frippery just gives me the willies. Maybe it sounds better, who cares?

When it comes to choosing what to bring to a gig, the type of venue and the renumeration matters less to me than who I'm playing with - a lot less. My answer to your question is: I care. I'm also lucky to play with great musicians so I don't want to show up with anything less than my A game when it comes to sounds.

[edit - on re-read I'm not liking the tone of my post above - I don't mean to be "aspersion-casting", whatever works for you is fine. I just don't enjoy myself on any gig if I know I'm purposely using a lower grade of sounds due to any reason. I have a nice road gig now, but when I'm home I do all kinds of gigs – this is how I make my living (if you can call it that!). Even when my heart's not in the music, or the band is a little sketchy, if I don't have my laptop rig with me it only serves to make the situation worse.]


Edited by Reezekeys (11/12/17 03:38 AM)

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#2889787 - 11/11/17 02:28 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Reezekeys]
RudyS Offline
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 1975
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Hardware only. I use an IOS device for changing pathes,but that doesn’t count. I could manage without it (i found out the hard way...)
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Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2889793 - 11/11/17 03:02 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: RudyS]
Moonglow Offline
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Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4436
Loc: Northwest Indiana
Hardware only, don't own a single soft synth. Not that they don't intrigue me...I look at Paich and Porcaro's rig with Toto and really dig what they are doing. Similarly, I am incredibly impressed with the rig our own EscapeRocks has put together. I simply have no time to take the plunge.
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#2889812 - 11/11/17 05:52 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: cphollis]
Stokely Offline
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Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1601
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: cphollis
I guess I'm anti-modern. I play with hardware only, albeit it's bar band stuff only. The idea of hauling a server and all the associated frippery just gives me the willies. Maybe it sounds better, who cares? Ain't getting paid much.

BTW, if you google me, you'll find out I've made my career in IT tech. Strange, huh?


Nope, not strange smile I'm not a tech, but a database developer, so I'm pretty comfortable around computers. Which means I don't trust them at all LOL!

But again, one of my hardware keyboards failed on me recently at a gig. I had one fail on me back in the late 80s too. Just have a backup for everything is my motto, I don't want to leave the band in the lurch without keys for a paying gig (even if it's not a lot of pay).

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#2889821 - 11/11/17 08:12 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Stokely]
keyman27 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 427
Loc: United States
Latency is holding me back from playing live with the laptop. At 256 samples, I can hear the latency and it's too much. 128 is fine, but that's when Mainstage starts giving me the system overload message.

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#2889823 - 11/11/17 08:26 PM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: keyman27]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Is that with onboard audio chipset, or a USB or Thunderbolt audio interface?
Also, how old is the Mac and which AUs are you running?
Omnisphere and Keyscape are pretty resource hungry.
But there are lots of instruments that are much lighter.
Also, lay off Spacedesigner - very high cpu use at low buffer settings.
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#2889832 - 11/12/17 12:00 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: Moonglow]
RudyS Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 1975
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Originally Posted By: Moonglow
Hardware only, don't own a single soft synth. Not that they don't intrigue me...I look at Paich and Porcaro's rig with Toto and really dig what they are doing. Similarly, I am incredibly impressed with the rig our own EscapeRocks has put together. I simply have no time to take the plunge.


Do you have a resource on that toto rig? I’m curious now.
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Rudy

Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2889843 - 11/12/17 04:41 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: RudyS]
CowboyNQ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 608
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Hardware with a tiny bit of help from Sunrizer and a fair degree of assistance from SampleLab (both IOS).

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#2889844 - 11/12/17 04:55 AM Re: POLL: Gig with hardware, computer, or both? [Re: CowboyNQ]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3985
Loc: DE
Hardware only.I tried with a Receptor and it wasn't a good experience. The hardware I have now does everything I need for the projects I'm in. That could change some day and maybe I'd do a Mainstage type setup but for now 2 or 3 keyboards is more than adequate.
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