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#2888599 - 11/04/17 03:34 PM Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing
desertbluesman Offline
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I never have thought of phrasing in my solo's until I learned how by doing. I never intended to "phrase" a passage until long after I knew how by long years of practicing. It is only after folks told me I played too many notes, and never left a moment of silence between notes in my solo's that I began to change my thinking. Once I heard that a few times from studied musicians, as well as music listeners, I got the message, and began inserting silences, pauses and sustains in my solo's. Once I did that consciously, I began to remember things my teachers told me back in the day, things like "musical flavors", & having a dialog with the backing track or the other musicians and what they are doing at the moment. Thinking of my single note lines as a conversation with the other things going on in the band or song. All of a sudden it came to me, the importance of conscious phrasing, and this only happened recently (after 45+ years of playing). Some folks take a little longer, I guess I am one of those.....
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#2888608 - 11/04/17 05:01 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
hurricane hugo Offline
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My experience was/is almost the opposite - I had 6 years of trumpet playing behind me (and was still playing) when I got a guitar for Xmas '79. I had to learn the concept and art of spinning out long uninterrupted lines.
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#2888656 - 11/05/17 05:25 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: hurricane hugo]
whitefang Offline
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You've probably seen my comment about "too many notes" elsewhere by now... wink
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#2888664 - 11/05/17 06:48 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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The importance of Phrasing came to me early on with my chord work and with my vocals. I play mostly rhythm guitar as my backing instrument for the songs I like to sing. Even after all these years I have not given the proper amount of attention to phrasing in my soloing as I don't get to solo all that much these days unless I get together with my buds for a jam or two. Listening to players like Joe Pass will put some phrasing in my mind and I do intend to work on it some day.

We all tend to want to play fast licks as it's impressive when we watch others glide up and down the fret board with ease. But plus 1,000 on appreciating the rests (spaces between the notes)as being just as important as the notes themselves. Funny, as we get older we stop to smell the roses more and appreciate techniques like phrasing. I get more into it when playing my nylon acoustics with a Latin vibe...

I do get into phrasing in my scale work and promise to work on it more one of these days LOL! Thanks for the reminder DBM! It's always a great thing to listen to those that give feedback on your solo playing, chording, singing, volume, tone, equipment, and oh yeah: phrasing! thu
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#2888666 - 11/05/17 07:24 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I`ve always been aware of it, enough to know when I`m throwing it out the window. I think there`s phrasing and there`s expressing-if I`m wound up, pissed off or just `in a mood`, that`s going to come through in what I play. I think it should, unless I`m doing a note by note rendition. I`m not going to articulate every word like a book if my world is falling apart.
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#2888777 - 11/06/17 07:22 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
Fred_C Offline
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My first Jazz teacher advised me, "Play your solo like a horn player plays or a vocalist sings. Take breaths." He also told me, "your solo should have a beginning, a middle and an end".

Charlie (Bird) Parker once said, "I realized that I could play any notes I wanted, as long as I resolved to a chord tone". IMO, this is a valuable improvisational concept.
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#2888834 - 11/06/17 01:55 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Fred_C]
d Offline
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Phrasing's not just a matter of number of notes, though.
There's vibrato & it's depth & placement (DBM is a master at that !); accelerations & ritards, along w/ other syncopations; expressive variations on standard or well-know lines & much more ....
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#2888861 - 11/06/17 04:33 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Phrasing's not just a matter of number of notes, though.
There's vibrato & it's depth & placement (DBM is a master at that !); accelerations & ritards, along w/ other syncopations; expressive variations on standard or well-know lines & much more ....


Thanks for the nice words, I would certainly like to be a master of my instrument, I keep on trying. Some days it comes out decent, some days it comes out less than satisfactory (at least to my ears).
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#2888974 - 11/07/17 08:08 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
Winston Psmith Offline
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I once got a great compliment from someone who'd heard one of my performances, and enjoyed it, without seeing the video. The guy said, "He can't be a Guitarist! He knows how to leave space between the notes!"
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#2888979 - 11/07/17 08:27 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Winston Psmith]
Eric Iverson Offline
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It IS true that guitarists tend to play run-on phrases.... unlike horn players, who have to stop and BREATHE once in a while.
Unless they do the circular breathing thing.
I have to remind myself sometimes to stop the phrase. Long lines can be great at times, but not ALWAYS.....

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#2889088 - 11/08/17 01:16 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Eric Iverson]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I don`t know-I`m seeing a lot of chat about technique. I still say, that phrasing comes from expressing a mood, making a statement-having something to SAY when one plays. Technique by itself can be masterful, and still sound empty-impressive but forgettable as soon as it finishes.
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#2889136 - 11/08/17 09:08 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Offline
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In the definition of technique, I also find synonyms like strategy, practice, method, artistry, delivery, etc. So I think of phrasing as a tool to have in the toolbox to help us express ourselves. Timing is important too. Playing from the heart is a strategy I try to keep in mind. I agree that expression plays a major role in our playing. cool
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#2889198 - 11/08/17 01:50 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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There is a lot going into any effort by a practiced musician like phrasing, I think there are many factors in anyone's musical efforts. I was heavy into technique, playing lost of notes, all clean as a whistle. Nowadays I just play what comes to me going from sound to sound without too much thinking. I try to stay in scale or at least in key if I stray into a full scale from pentatonic. These days it is a struggle to keep the lack of feeling in my hands (neuropathy) from limiting my playing. I am thinking of seeing a neurologist, I hear they have some not too dangerous medications that may help.
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#2889223 - 11/08/17 03:24 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: skipclone 1]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I don`t know-I`m seeing a lot of chat about technique. I still say, that phrasing comes from expressing a mood, making a statement-having something to SAY when one plays. Technique by itself can be masterful, and still sound empty-impressive but forgettable as soon as it finishes.


I wonder if there's some value in doing something such as considering a verbal phrase & making that into a musical phrase....same # of notes & all (or maybe melismas), just non verbal....
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#2889274 - 11/08/17 08:24 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
These days it is a struggle to keep the lack of feeling in my hands (neuropathy) from limiting my playing. I am thinking of seeing a neurologist, I hear they have some not too dangerous medications that may help.


Good luck DBM! I too have trouble with pain my hands that comes and goes. It can really make playing a little more difficult. It helps me a lot if I remember to take a break every hour... cool
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#2889297 - 11/09/17 04:11 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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To wander a bit but address DBM on medicines.....

My wife(who suffered peripheral neuropathy) found that NEURONTIN helped, at least for a while. Some docs offer LYRICA for that infliction, but my wife felt that it made her feel "loopy". But you may have to try either to see what works for YOU. And best of luck to you in finding a remedy and relief.
Whitefang
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#2889364 - 11/09/17 11:52 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
To wander a bit but address DBM on medicines.....

My wife(who suffered peripheral neuropathy) found that NEURONTIN helped, at least for a while. Some docs offer LYRICA for that infliction, but my wife felt that it made her feel "loopy". But you may have to try either to see what works for YOU. And best of luck to you in finding a remedy and relief.
Whitefang


Thanks for the heads up Fang. I searched those and am thinking something other, that I can find as a supplement non prescription item, those both carry serious warnings.
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#2889508 - 11/10/17 06:24 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Well look at it this way-my friend walks into the room and says, "I just won the lottery!"
I say, "Wow, great!"
My friend walks into the room and says, "I just won the lottery!"
I say, "Wow. Great."
They are the same verbal phrase.
Musically, `tone` is a never-ending quest for perfection.
In writing, `tone` is only perfect for the content. Screaming, growling, whispering, whining and crooning are all perfect, at the right time. The content determines the right tone. What are you really trying to say? I think there`s value there for music as well.
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#2908567 - 02/10/18 01:09 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: desertbluesman]
rufasuve Offline
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When I teach improvisation to my students, I always tell them to listen to what they are playing. That is, just because one is playing notes that fit the chord progression, it does not mean it sounds good. If you put yourself in the position of the listener when you improvise, you will more naturally create melodic phrases. I hope this makes sense

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#2908585 - 02/10/18 03:23 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: rufasuve]
Larryz Offline
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It sure does rufasuve...it's nice to have another teacher on board. Improvisation is a very important part of my enjoyment in playing the guitar. I also like to capture a moment or two on my looper and play it back to see if it sounds good. I do this with my vocals too!
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#2908654 - 02/11/18 03:32 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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It sounds odd to me that one can teach improvisation. Kinda like saying you're scheduling your spontaneity. wink

But I kinda get your drift. Some people( especially growing up these days) live such regimented lives that thinking"outside the box" is a concept that IS "outside the box".

I always thought that by "phrasing" in musical terms meant conveying a feeling. Like maybe instrumentally, trying to use your instrument to capture a particular mood set by the song's lyrical content. And I think that's probably been said a few times a few different ways here already. wink
Whitefang
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#2908905 - 02/12/18 06:15 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
My first Jazz teacher advised me, "Play your solo like a horn player plays or a vocalist sings. Take breaths." He also told me, "your solo should have a beginning, a middle and an end".

Charlie (Bird) Parker once said, "I realized that I could play any notes I wanted, as long as I resolved to a chord tone". IMO, this is a valuable improvisational concept.

Originally Posted By: d
Phrasing's not just a matter of number of notes, though.
There's vibrato & it's depth & placement (DBM is a master at that !); accelerations & ritards, along w/ other syncopations; expressive variations on standard or well-know lines & much more ....

Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I once got a great compliment from someone who'd heard one of my performances, and enjoyed it, without seeing the video. The guy said, "He can't be a Guitarist! He knows how to leave space between the notes!"


All of the above so true.
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#2908913 - 02/12/18 06:34 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
DocPate Online   content
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I guess I didn't realize that this is"phrasing". But I believe the old Blues musicians like John Hurt, Leadbelly, Sam Chatmon, Son House and Robert Johnson were Master's of vocal and guitar phrasing.

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#2909189 - 02/13/18 04:36 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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"Phrasing" is as varied as the artists who are known for their "phrasing". Whether or not on an instrument or with vocals.

For ex., I've mentioned in here a few times over the years, of Frank Sinatra, a singer often hailed for his "great" phrasing, once said that he thought Nat "King" Cole's phrasing was better, "If I could phrase a song like Nat, I'd die a happy man."

And I'm guessing that since most of those old bluesmen weren't "taught" by some instructor as to what's "right" or "wrong" musically and had only their instincts to go on, that their natural ability to phrase took over. I DO also recall reading in an article by some guy who, as a music student in the '40's, was told by his instructor that JAZZ wasn't "real" music, and it was because of it's use of "flatted 5ths" which the instructor felt was some kind of musical "desecration".

I can't begin to imagine the number of possible sterling jazz careers that man stifled with that kind of "instruction".
Whitefang
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#2909236 - 02/13/18 07:37 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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@ Fang, The Flat 5 is a very important note in Blues, Jazz, Country, Rock and Roll, etc. I doubt that particular music instructor side tracked any possible sterling jazz careers as anyone interested in jazz at all, would leave him flat! [pun intended] LOL! cool
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#2909246 - 02/13/18 08:13 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
DocPate Online   content
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Another great note used in Blues phrasing is a minor third.

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#2909247 - 02/13/18 08:16 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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I think things might be getting a bit far afield in some ways, partly b/c of the connotations of words that might not mean the same to all or even be properly understood by some.

Let me suggest that like all aspects of music or any art there are techniques that may be be used in various ways but there are not really any rules.
Expression is what it's all abt. That has 2 aspects: outgoing intent & the reception on the part of listeners. Both are a wide mix of cultural habits & expectations.
In music, anything that's not part of yer note selection is part of phrasing (& actually sometimes that is part of it too).
We could make a list of all those things but such lists exist & to be fully complete would be v. extensive, so much so as to drift over into TMI, where ppl might get frozen by tryna keep it all in mind.

I can't leave w/out making the point that, despite what some may think (& which has been expressed addressed elsewhere before) the fact that some musicians may have developed outside the expectations of others has absolutely nothing to do w/their skill level as expressive players.
In fact neither does their use or lack of any techniques, which is not to say technique's not important but that it's just part of a toolkit. & diff tools have diff uses.

When one focuses only on the tool, the message is sometimes ignored.
Music's an aural art. Talkin' abt can be helpful but is sometimes just ppl tryna have something to say.
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#2909252 - 02/13/18 08:31 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
DocPate Online   content
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Absolutely correct d. It's funny how threads move as the thoughts of individuals progress like one of those word association games. Kind of like how we phrase a song, whether original or a cover. It's called making the song "your own". I personally think it's ok to intertwine notes and expression since that seems to be how we make it our own. As I once heard a great guitatist say, "...all the notes you need are in there (guitar) and to create a great song, it's up to you (the guitar player) to get them out, at the right time and in the right order."

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#2909255 - 02/13/18 08:37 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: DocPate]
d Offline
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Thanks, Doc, but lest my point be missed, part of what I meant can be defined by the, uh, phrase "talkin loud, sayin' nothing".
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#2909266 - 02/13/18 09:28 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
DocPate Online   content
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Originally Posted By: d
Thanks, Doc, but lest my point be missed, part of what I meant can be defined by the, uh, phrase "talkin loud, sayin' nothing".

Not sure to whom this comment is directed.

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#2909304 - 02/13/18 11:27 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: DocPate]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
As I once heard a great guitatist say, "...all the notes you need are in there (guitar) and to create a great song, it's up to you (the guitar player) to get them out, at the right time and in the right order."


+1 on "at the right time". Phrasing has a lot to do with the spaces in between the notes and the ones that are not played...more so than the notes themselves at times...
cool
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#2909360 - 02/13/18 02:38 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, spaces work, but it's also a matter of expression. Sammy Cahn explained his take on Frank's "phrasing" in telling about him instead of singing the word "lonely" in one of his songs, he stretched the word out in a way that while still fitting in the metre of the song, actually ACCENTUATED the feeling of being lonely. I'm certain some guitarists can do this on their instrument as well.
Whitefang
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#2909371 - 02/13/18 03:49 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: whitefang]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Yeah, spaces work, but it's also a matter of expression. Sammy Cahn explained his take on Frank's "phrasing" in telling about him instead of singing the word "lonely" in one of his songs, he stretched the word out in a way that while still fitting in the metre of the song, actually ACCENTUATED the feeling of being lonely. I'm certain some guitarists can do this on their instrument as well.
Whitefang


That's cool! cool
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#2909380 - 02/13/18 04:50 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
Originally Posted By: DocPate
As I once heard a great guitatist say, "...all the notes you need are in there (guitar) and to create a great song, it's up to you (the guitar player) to get them out, at the right time and in the right order."


+1 on "at the right time". Phrasing has a lot to do with the spaces in between the notes and the ones that are not played...more so than the notes themselves at times...
cool


There can be many orders notes occur & sometimes how that's varied & stressed is part of a players vocabulary (i.e, style), sometimes part of what they're saying right then & sometimes just something they copied from someone else & are just throwing in.
That last can still be legit expression; e.g., consider a player quoting a pop or classic tune for contextual ref...but it can also just be a cliche that seems to fit.
Same thing w/ diff approaches to busyness or relaxed playing: sometimes it's the thing some music needs, sometimes it's clutter or inability to exceed.

Here's one of the best examples of expressive phrasing I've heard recently; it's next up for my BBK thread [http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2882827/back_to_the_basics_w_BB#Post2882827] & subject of current study.
It's from early 1957, a time when he'd already established his skills as a player & singer but seems to me to be having some probs in both material selection & production.

Anyhow, I'll post my comments there soon but here, dig how both he & the band shuffle along in a way unlike like his earlier tracks & how he does a few specific things such as sing even lazier than his by-then-established relaxed method & how he both interplays w/the band (he let's them finish a gtr phrase, (in a way later associated w/Fred McDowell) during the intro & during the solo [2:12~2:50] he starts w/a line too tired (or drunk?) to climb the stairs but staggers around a key note til able to summon the strength (bent note @ 2:25) to go on somewhat wanderingly til, just before the next verse, the gtr simply says, "Aw so what !" [2:48]
I think he did all that v. deliberately.

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#2909468 - 02/14/18 06:40 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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@ d, BB has always been great at "expressive phrasing". Blues and Jazz give singers and guitar players a lot of room and freedom to improvise. I love it when that trumpet comes in out of nowhere in the clip...all genres include phrasing but in most cases it is written out on the sheets, especially in the melody lines. I think Bob Dylan was a true master at phrasing in the studio and on stage. Here's my favorite example of his expressive phrasing which could also be considered expressive writing:



cool


Edited by Larryz (02/14/18 06:44 AM)
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#2909552 - 02/14/18 10:33 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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[1]
Well, of course BBK's great at expressive playing. That's not news but what is is that in my recent & ongoing study of his career (which extends back to his earliest recordings) early on his vox were oft more expressive than his gtr.

I'll go back & look for when the trpt flashes but did ya dig the intro where BB caves in a line he's playing to allow the horns to finish that line ?
That's another type of expression that is rarely considered---players "passing the plate" (1 of 2 meanings that term has)...a sort of inverted expression ("I'ma set you up to play something that my line will have invoked")

[2]
While there are composers & arrangers who do notate phrasing, that usually amts to loudness dynamics & parenthetic phrase indications & which oft as not are added to transcriptions of recorded perfs rather than actually part of the orig.

[3]
As for the Dyl,, I disagree.
He is idiosyncratically distinctive & stylistic in his phrasing [so much so that almost everyone's got an imitation of him up their sleeve] but he's not a master.
Here's why: he's almost incapable of reproducing some of his most compelling vocals.
Watch this.....



The ability to develop multiple variations is a great talent...however the inability to focus & develop an idea isn't...in fact it's the opposite of mastery.
As much as I like the Dyl's work & respect his place in culture, he's simply not a master of his own performances.
He doesn't control them; they control him.

As another example, most who denigrate rap think of it's often sing-songy manner & say there's no talent involved.
Here's an example of how easy it isn't, for some....
[A blur isn't the same thing as a flow]



As I've often pointed out, it does no one good to ignore the reality of our heroes's limitations; in fact it's harmful.
It's suggests an inability to recognize their true achievements compared to their less valuable work &, further, it sometimes denies to other artists the recognition they deserve.
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#2909645 - 02/14/18 03:09 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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d, We will just have to agree to disagree. I and the Nobel Prize committee consider Dylan a master. As to his lack of memory in his live performances, we all get older. However, he truly amazes me with the number of lyrics and his poetic expressions (which some call phrasing), that he has written and for which he won the nobel prize. He can still recall and perform tons of his material. In his younger days his memory and ability to recall were and still are, unsurpassed IMHO. The volumes of music he has written and recorded exceeds just about anyone out there and how he can remember half of it is beyond belief. In the ancient days, poetic expression of the written words were intended to be played on instruments...Dylan was into rap before there was rap. His was more entertaining and less concerned with the shock factor IMHO.

ps. the trumpet parts were around 2:58 - 3:14...


Edited by Larryz (02/14/18 03:17 PM)
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#2909661 - 02/14/18 04:23 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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Well, we may disagree, LarZ but that's b/c you seem to have got the same hero thing abt the Dyl as the for Big E.
I never said Bob doesn't deserve recognition for many things, including his distinctive style as a singer, just that he's not skilled at controlling that, ergo, not a master...& I gave a couple clear examples.
I never said anything abt his memory & I don't think that's has to do w/it.[*]
When he was young he seems to've rarely sung a song consistently the same way.
He won the Nobel for Literature, not his musical perfs, so I can't figure what that's to do w./anything under discussion here (musical phrasing & expression, particularly on gtrs) so really all yer saying there has naught to do w/ it, eh?

As to rap, that's a fave target for those heavy into "authentic" folk/blues/rock & there are some valid criticisms of it but more oft than not the slams on it have more to do w/ the same kinda prejudices as were cast at disco (or at one time toward country music or, dare I say, the Dyl himself.

My point is this: if one can't accurately recognize the lesser work or talents of those they admire then their appreciation of their real triumphs becomes suspect.


[* Although anyone tryna sing some of his songs w/thirty-'leven verses & 70 lines per verse is gonna falter once in a while...& there's a hilarious version of "Like A Rolling Stone" from the Isle of Wight on IT'S AN ELF PORTRAIT alb where he actually sings the same line 3 X in a row before he sanps back into it]
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#2909665 - 02/14/18 04:30 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
d Offline
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Back more to the point...
Originally Posted By: Larryz
...(speaking of BB King track above) ... I love it when that trumpet comes in out of nowhere in the clip... he trumpet parts were around 2:58 - 3:14...

Oh, yes, behind the last verse...
another good example of players interweaving as they play, a matter of expressive phrasing in its own right.
At 3:00 BB starts a gtr phrase, the trp echoes, BB echoes that ((or maybe just finishes his line)...then [3:11] BB stretches the word "pleeeease" out, followed by a similar note from trpt [3:14].
Then BB & the drummer flam a climatic note/beat together @3:29/30.
You can almost see him holding the gtr neck up & swinging it down ! rimshot rawk
I hadn't noticed that stuff before---thanks ! wave
Ya get a tip O the hat over at BBK basics !
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#2909736 - 02/14/18 11:02 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Sorry d, We just have divergent views and never the twain shall meet. I have been talking "phrasing" with regard to both vocals and guitars. Dylan did not just win the Nobel prize for Literature. If you go back and read the accounts you'll find that he redefined the Nobel prize for literature based upon his musical poetic expression...which would include his phrasing, written material, contributions, knowledge and his many performances in the world of music. It is the 1st time the Nobel prize was given to a musician singer/songwriter. I stand by my inclusion of Bobby D and my prior comments on this thread and feel they are relevant even if you do not. For another example of Bob's phrasing, catch a copy of Tangled Up in Blue from his Blood On The Tracks album or Dear Landlord from John Westley, the list is endless and you can include any of the songs on that Highway 61 album (which is a favorite of mine)...

True, I put Elvis and Dylan on a very high pedestal due to their many accomplishments and they are a couple of my favorites. But a lot of their stuff is not of interest to me. Ray Charles and a host of others I could name, are just as important in what I enjoy listening too. Ray and Elvis are also masters at vocal phrasing and Ray plays some pretty hot keys too IMHO. They both re-arrange songs and do it their way, which is why they influence me so much. cool



Edited by Larryz (02/14/18 11:07 PM)
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#2909770 - 02/15/18 05:02 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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As Bob too, rarely ever played or sang any of his songs the same way twice, he seems to easily fall into Larry's wheelhouse.

And again, "phrasing" we know, is how one conveys a feeling for either the lyric or music. Dylan too, has often been able to do that eloquently. One example might be this favorite of mine(one of 'em) from HIGHWAY 61 Revisited:


I saw a documentary (Scorcese) that focused a bit on this cut. Some of the "outtakes" used had this tune being done in the same vein as "From A Buick 6", and Bob was unsatisfied. He asked to be left alone for a few minutes, and when everyone returned, he had the version you hear on the LP already worked out. But because Bob has the rep of not singing "pretty" and the rep too, of being an oddball personality, his sharp musical instincts often get overlooked. And both Bob And Elvis, while aspiring performers, both soaked up a wide variety of musical influences, you just know they had to come out sometimes, and both I'd say, did let them come out in proper context.
Whitefang
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#2909771 - 02/15/18 05:03 AM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: Larryz]
DocPate Online   content
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I never will forget the first time I heard a guitar player bend a note. I thought, how great is that sound. Added a kind of loneliness to the song he was playing.

Now I know, he was "Phrasing".

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#2909930 - 02/15/18 02:55 PM Re: Phrasing and the importance of that in soloing [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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thu

Sure. Not only upon the first hearing of a bent note, but MY first bending of a note struck me much the same way. It can make the guitar both cry OR laugh! wink
Whitefang
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