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#2914535 - 03/12/18 02:04 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
jerrythek Offline
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I will add another observation: I tried the VC at NAMM and really enjoyed the Rhodes electric piano sounds... there was some new voicing (to my qualified ears) and I really liked them. So while it is the same engine as the Kronos there has been some new sounds have been rolled out that I liked a lot.

Jerry

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#2914555 - 03/12/18 04:01 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I will add another observation: I tried the VC at NAMM and really enjoyed the Rhodes electric piano sounds... there was some new voicing (to my qualified ears) and I really liked them. So while it is the same engine as the Kronos there has been some new sounds have been rolled out that I liked a lot.

Could it be the presence of the tube?
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#2914595 - 03/12/18 09:41 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: jerrythek]
Adan Offline
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I will add another observation: I tried the VC at NAMM and really enjoyed the Rhodes electric piano sounds... there was some new voicing (to my qualified ears) and I really liked them. So while it is the same engine as the Kronos there has been some new sounds have been rolled out that I liked a lot.

Jerry


There's a lot of nice patches on the Vox but it's the Rhodes that most often gives me happy fingers. The voicing and response are so good. It's been awhile since I played a Kronos but I have the Grandstage to compare it to. The GS has the advantage of weighted keys, but to my ears some of the Vox Rhodes patches are more alive and characterful than the GS, which is saying a lot.
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#2914712 - 03/13/18 01:38 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: AnotherScott]
jerrythek Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I will add another observation: I tried the VC at NAMM and really enjoyed the Rhodes electric piano sounds... there was some new voicing (to my qualified ears) and I really liked them. So while it is the same engine as the Kronos there has been some new sounds have been rolled out that I liked a lot.

Could it be the presence of the tube?


That could be a part of it, but I recall liking the key-off element specifically... it was a bit more "meaty" (I know, a terrible technical analysis), and more realistic to my early morning NAMM ears. I wish I could compare them side by side with a Kronos to judge better.

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#2914720 - 03/13/18 02:13 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Interesting comments, Jerry/Adan. EP is mostly what continues to intrigue me about the VC. As a top board of a pair (or as a solo board), I think it would be too limiting for me, between its lack of splits and its quick access to only 16 stored sounds. But my needs in a bottom board are much more limited, and the VC may make sense as a super light bottom,assuming its action passes the "good enough" threshold. For this scenario, my front runner is actually the Numa Compact 2 which I have (or the 2X that could replace it), which is cheaper, lighter, 88 keys, with more presets if I want them (and they're also recallable via MIDI). One other advantage of the Numa is how shallow it is, allowing the second board's keys to come very close to its own. (Aftertouch is nice, but I may have it on my top board which would make it less of a concern here.) So the Numa could fit this bill pretty well. But what tempts be about the VC is the possibility of better sounds, and superior EPs in particular, which is a big part of what I play on a bottom board. The SV1 is too heavy, but if the Vox approaches its EP quality, it would be tempting. Under a Nord Stage 3 Compact for example, whose EPs are okay, but not my favorite.

(Earlier in the thread, I also compared the VC to the VR730, which in many ways is more capable for less money... but the lower weight and the quality of the EPs can give the VC an edge in this case.)


Edited by AnotherScott (03/13/18 03:58 PM)
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#2914786 - 03/13/18 08:01 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
There's a lot of nice patches on the Vox but it's the Rhodes that most often gives me happy fingers. The voicing and response are so good. It's been awhile since I played a Kronos but I have the Grandstage to compare it to. The GS has the advantage of weighted keys, but to my ears some of the Vox Rhodes patches are more alive and characterful than the GS, which is saying a lot.

Are you using the tube when you play these GS EPs?

It could be an interesting experiment to run a MIDI cable and try playing the Vox EPs from the Grandstage keys, and see if they still sound different from the EPs in the GS itself (if you don't have the tube engaged), and also to see whether the Vox EPs may actually somehow play better from the Vox SW keys than from a hammer action over MIDI.
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#2914917 - 03/14/18 10:12 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
Brad Kaenel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Originally Posted By: Adan
it looks to me like you have to stick with whatever works with the bottom strut assembly.


Sweetwater confirms that the Sequenz stands and add-on tiers are in fact the same sizes as the ones shipped with the Grandstage and the Vox Continental<updated>, although the Korg-included accessories have some incidental branding (color, logos, etc.)

The stand provided with the VC-73 is the "Standard Medium", and the "Medium" tiers will indeed fit onto it. Likewise with the "Large" and "Small" stands/tiers provided with the GS-88 and VC-61, respectively.

I have a Medium add-on tier arriving tomorrow; will report back...


Unfortunately, it doesn't fit. cry

The "Standard" tier is about 5" too long for the Continental's stand, if you try to mount it *inside* the vertical poles as the instructions direct. If you spin the clamps around and try to mount the tier on the *outside* of the poles, like the original tier that was provided for the Continental, then it's too short.

The Continental's stand has the tier extending *outside* the poles on both ends, and the tier clamps are also rotated 180-degrees, with the tilt handles on the *outside* instead of on the inside like all the photos on Sweetwater's website and elsewhere.  And anecdotally, marketing photos of the Korg Grandstage show Sequenz stands with the tiers and tilt handles on the inside, just like all the printed instructions show.

So, Adan, you're definitely right. It seems like the Sequenz stands provided with the Grandstage models are "stock", but the Continental's stand is not -- the bottom strut is a custom width, so the stock parts don't fit.  And believe me, I tried every possible way of arranging the stock tier, even with the clamps/handles on the opposite way, etc.  There's no way it fits; either in the "correct" position, or the "incorrect" position that the Continental's stand employs.

Fortunately, though, the tiers themselves can be easily disassembled. If I decide to keep the Standard tier, I can simply remove the endcaps, cut the aluminum crossbars to the correct length, and reassemble it so that it will fit inside the poles. Or I suppose I could also exchange the Standard tier for the longer "Large" and do the same thing, but mount it outside the poles so that it matches the tier I already have.
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#2914956 - 03/14/18 12:14 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
theGman Offline
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For me, the Vox deal killer is not having a split, especially on the 73 key board. I was getting the GAS feeling too!

No split eliminates it for use as a single gigging board in my world. Doesn't anyone who engineers these things have a live gigging neighbor or relative who would mention this?

Waste of a fine keyboard. smile

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#2914963 - 03/14/18 12:45 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: theGman]
Adan Offline
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Originally Posted By: theGman
For me, the Vox deal killer is not having a split, especially on the 73 key board. I was getting the GAS feeling too!

No split eliminates it for use as a single gigging board in my world. Doesn't anyone who engineers these things have a live gigging neighbor or relative who would mention this?

Waste of a fine keyboard. smile


That's a valid argument. I'm sure monotimbrality will have many folks crossing this off their list and will mean fewer units sold.

Vox (Korg) clearly knew this and made a design decision to go mono. Maybe keeping cost down was part of it, but also, mono is consistent with the theme of a simplified set of panel controls and a "what you see is what you're playing" philosophy. This is something I really appreciate when I'm able to take two keyboards on a gig. Not so much when I can't.

Goes back to my comment that if you're playing in a function band covering songs from many different bands, a monotimbral keyboard might be too impractical. If were doing that now, I don't think the Vox would be in my rig. But my current band is pretty open ended, jammy, and spontaneous, and the "what you see is what you're playing" approach is very helpful and conducive to that.
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#2914972 - 03/14/18 01:40 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
Originally Posted By: theGman
For me, the Vox deal killer is not having a split, especially on the 73 key board. I was getting the GAS feeling too!

No split eliminates it for use as a single gigging board in my world. Doesn't anyone who engineers these things have a live gigging neighbor or relative who would mention this?

Waste of a fine keyboard. smile

Vox (Korg) clearly knew this and made a design decision to go mono. Maybe keeping cost down was part of it, but also, mono is consistent with the theme of a simplified set of panel controls and a "what you see is what you're playing" philosophy.

Yeah. One of the biggest knocks on the Electro was that it didn't do splits. They added splits in the E5, but some people bemoan the simplicity of earlier boards. Not every board is for every player. Korg seems to have sold plenty of essentially non-splitable SV1s, and Nord did sell plenty of pre-5 Electros. More people probably want splits (and more boards have them), but some people want simplicity and don't necessarily need splits.
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#2915098 - 03/15/18 06:33 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: AnotherScott]
AnotherScott Offline
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picking up from the above and also a related post in another thread...

Originally Posted By: theGman
What I don't understand is the kboards like the Vox having 73 keys and no splitting. THAT is dumb.


There are two reasons people are likely to want 73 keys rather than 61. One is splits, the other is more keys to play a single sound, most often piano. In the case of the Vox Continental (and Seven and SV1) there is a big focus on vintage keys. The 61 cannot give you the full original key span of a Wurli or a Clavinet or a 73-key Rhodes; the 73 does. (Nord did essentially the same thing in the non-splittable pre-5 Electros, though they were one-key off in covering the span of a Rhodes 73, going F-to-F instead of E-to-E.) That and the additional range for piano is enough to justify having more than 61 keys for some players. At least the Vox lets you layer, a function that is either non-existent or much more limited in the SV1/Seven and previous Electros.

As it happens, I rarely use splits myself, except for LH bass, and lots of players don't do LH bass. If I'm doing the kind of gig where I have to play multiple sounds at once (and/or do a lot of fast sound switching), I'd rather bring a second board, even just a cheap and light one (i.e. Yamaha MX49). I prefer that to doing lots of advance sound setup and having to be cognizant of keyboard ranges for sounds as I play. But sure, lots of players need splits, and these boards aren't for them. And that's only one of many limitations of the Vox, there are others who probably won't want it because of the limited patch storage/recall, or missing clonewheel percussion/CV options, or lack of a mod wheel, or lackluster MIDI implementation, or minimal sound editing, or inability to send organ sounds through a separate out from the non-organ sounds... We'll see if it finds its market. Though they seem to have done well with the SV1 despite a similar set of limitations.

Especially since the VC does have an underlying split structure that supports dual organ, though, for me it would have been nice if there were merely an option to call up a LH bass sound for that lower part, even if that were the only non-organ split available. That probably wouldn't add much operational complication, and would address one of the single biggest needs of those who do need splits. That and some better patch recall functionality (even if only being able to call up all its built in sounds over MIDI) would make a big difference to me. I'm still on the fence as to whether this could be a good fit for me.
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#2915112 - 03/15/18 07:36 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: AnotherScott]
Adan Offline
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There's a cognitive toll to be paid when using splits. The more ways in which you divide your attention, the more distracted you are from the "pure" cognitive activity of making music. Splitting a keyboard adds at last two extra things to be aware of: split point and octave shift. So you might think this through and conclude, "yeah, it's a distraction but it's worth it." The only point I making is that it's not irrational to want to avoid paying that toll by playing keyboards mono-timbraly.


Edited by Adan (03/15/18 07:56 AM)
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#2915127 - 03/15/18 08:16 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
There's a cognitive toll to be paid when using splits. The more ways in which you divide your attention, the more distracted you are from the "pure" cognitive activity of making music. Splitting a keyboard adds at last two extra things to be aware of: split point and octave shift. So you might think this through and conclude, "yeah, it's a distraction but it's worth it." The only point I making is that it's not irrational to want to avoid paying that toll by playing keyboards mono-timbraly.

I agree. On a "bottom" board (or an only board), I don't think I've ever used a split except maybe for LH bass (though I'd more often do that on a top board). On a top, I've occasionally split for other purposes, but try to avoid it. And yeah, I've definitely accidentally crossed split points, or dealt with things being an octave off, especially on those times I split a 61, bleh. I once actually even added velocity splits (get an entirely different sound when I strike the same keys harder). It was an interesting experiment, and it did let me get all the sounds I wanted (it was for Prince's "Diamonds and Pearls"), but I'll never do that again. At that point, I feel much more a "technology operator" than "player."
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#2915161 - 03/15/18 10:17 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: AnotherScott]
theGman Offline
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Split button sounds like the "transpose button" discussion with the same outcome...if you don't like it, don't use it.

However, playing in a classic rock band and a blues band, it's hard to beat having a left side organ with a right side piano, or then maybe a right side sax, or something else, just a button push away.

No cognitive toll for me...I don't split on the fly; they are pre-programmed, so no mental calisthenics necessary. This way you can adjust lower side volume down to not fight the right hand melody side. I believe I have almost all splits at same point, to eliminate surprises also. It's just nice being able to add this variety to the arsenal.

In addition to just using one sound entirely, I use about 6 ? preset splits, such as Left to Right:organ/piano, orchestra/piano, piano/piano and organ/organ (with the lower piano or organ raised up an octave, to keep from walking on the bass), etc.

I also have used a split same sound on sound with the lower 2 key octaves again being up 1 octave, to keep from walking on the bass. Side bonus: also nice for occasional drinking or snacking or reaching for or adjustments while playing a one hand background with sound on sound, since these left 2 or so octaves are actually just a repeat of the 2 just above, so you can play easily with the non-drinking hand.

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#2915197 - 03/15/18 01:14 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: theGman]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: theGman
Split button sounds like the "transpose button" discussion with the same outcome...if you don't like it, don't use it.

I'm not arguing against having split functions, I recognize how useful they can be, and I think it would be nice if the VC had one. But more so than transpose buttons, split functions do tend to add a bit more complication to a board. Obviously if you need it, this isn't the board for you, but it may be fine for others.

I was thinking about how split could be added to the VC with minimal impact on the existing interface/architecture. It can already layer, so the easiest approach would presumably be to allow you to take a pair of layered sounds and split them instead. By itself, I don't think that would add much complication, but it would also still be pretty limited, as the sounds have to be from different categories (i.e. you could only have some combination of one organ sound, one piano sound, one EP sound, one key/layer sound). But okay, it's something (and not so different from the limitations of assorted Hammonds and Nords). But now that you're splitting, you might want to change the octaves of at least one of the sounds, so you need some mechanism/interface by which to do that, another complication. And I think most players are probably in the same camp as you re: "I don't split on the fly; they are pre-programmed." Since the board only supports 16 saved scenes (user presets), there's not much space for saving splits. So while I agree it would have been nice to have the option to have even some limited split function, it might be hard to maintain the direct simplicity of design while giving enough split functionality for people who rely on splits to be happy. But who knows, maybe they'll add at least some basic way to split a layer in a software update...
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#2919497 - 04/05/18 05:05 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
Brad Kaenel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel

So, Adan, you're definitely right. It seems like the Sequenz stands provided with the Grandstage models are "stock", but the Continental's stand is not -- the bottom strut is a custom width, so the stock parts don't fit..

Fortunately, though, the tiers themselves can be easily disassembled...


I got the "Large" tier and cut it down to size. The poles themselves (removed from the endcaps) were 56" -- they needed to be 52" to match the custom length that came with the Continental. Easy hacksaw cut on the hollow aluminum.

Now I have a two-tier stand that can hold both the Continental 73 and my Forte 7. thu

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#2919500 - 04/05/18 05:31 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
Happy Birthday davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
Now I have a two-tier stand that can hold both the Continental 73 and my Forte 7. thu


Nice rig, Brad. thu
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#2919501 - 04/05/18 05:35 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: davedoerfler]
burningbusch Offline
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What I really like about those stands is that the height and angle of both tiers appear to be completely adjustable. Is that the case?

Busch.

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#2919538 - 04/05/18 09:57 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: burningbusch]
analogman1 Offline
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Question regarding the "Sequenz Stand" which is supplied...if you purchased a second tier, could you position the bottom keyboard close enough to simulate a 2 manual organ?
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#2919541 - 04/05/18 10:20 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: analogman1]
Adan Offline
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The tiers are completely adjustable for height and angle. This allows you to get 2 keyboards very close to each other. Note however that if you have 2 tiers, the bottom one will be too low to play from a standing position.
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#2919593 - 04/06/18 06:51 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Adan]
teashea Offline
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The best thing to do with that stand is to just throw it away - I did not even open mine up - of course that is just my opinion.
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#2922197 - 04/18/18 02:15 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Adan]
Brad Kaenel Offline
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Gear spotting: First Vox Continental I've seen in the wild -- the keyboard player in the American Idol band had the 61-key perched atop his Wurlie this week...
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#2922292 - 04/19/18 05:12 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
teashea Offline
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There are a couple new videos on YT - I continue to really like mine.
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#2928457 - 05/22/18 05:47 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: teashea]
DimitrisPl Offline
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Registered: 09/14/17
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Guyz what about the organ tunes?Are you satisfied with CX-3 machine?And of course can you compare it to Nord's one?

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#2928479 - 05/22/18 08:18 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
Happy Birthday davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: teashea
The best thing to do with that stand is to just throw it away

Originally Posted By: Brad Kaenel
the keyboard player in the American Idol band had the 61-key perched atop his Wurlie this week...


Tom was right. wink

I would love to have one of these to set upon my Wurlitzer but my purchase requisition was rejected by my finance dep't.
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#2928511 - 05/22/18 10:13 AM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: AnotherScott]
synthizen2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: theGman
Split button sounds like the "transpose button" discussion with the same outcome...if you don't like it, don't use it.

I'm not arguing against having split functions, I recognize how useful they can be, and I think it would be nice if the VC had one. But more so than transpose buttons, split functions do tend to add a bit more complication to a board. Obviously if you need it, this isn't the board for you, but it may be fine for others.

I was thinking about how split could be added to the VC with minimal impact on the existing interface/architecture. It can already layer, so the easiest approach would presumably be to allow you to take a pair of layered sounds and split them instead. By itself, I don't think that would add much complication, but it would also still be pretty limited, as the sounds have to be from different categories (i.e. you could only have some combination of one organ sound, one piano sound, one EP sound, one key/layer sound). But okay, it's something (and not so different from the limitations of assorted Hammonds and Nords). But now that you're splitting, you might want to change the octaves of at least one of the sounds, so you need some mechanism/interface by which to do that, another complication. And I think most players are probably in the same camp as you re: "I don't split on the fly; they are pre-programmed." Since the board only supports 16 saved scenes (user presets), there's not much space for saving splits. So while I agree it would have been nice to have the option to have even some limited split function, it might be hard to maintain the direct simplicity of design while giving enough split functionality for people who rely on splits to be happy. But who knows, maybe they'll add at least some basic way to split a layer in a software update...


In conventional "ROMplerSpeak", splits and layers belong to a memory location called PERFORMANCES or COMBIS or SCENES, etc.

If you want a single sound, then you go to the simpler PROGRAMS or PATCHES memory location.

Although the actual programming and menu-diving can be a little complicated, having things set up in this way is easy to understand. You want a single sound, select a PROGRAM. You want a split or layer, select a PERFORMANCE which contains two or more PROGRAMS that can be played in certain zones on the keybed (depending on how you programmed it).

After having taken the ability to split or layer AWAY from certain pro boards, manufacturers are now trying to shoe-horn the concept back in. But they are causing confusion. Now they come up with 14 different ways to "create a split", making things confusing all over again, when I think they had this problem/concept solved decades ago.
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#2933713 - 06/19/18 06:14 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: Brad Kaenel]
Brad Kaenel Offline
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Registered: 09/12/06
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Loc: SoCal
Made a Quick Reference Card for the VC (MS Excel; see sheet tabs)

Download a copy here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AiV6RuhHUZ0QgYQ3lkwlFyQfuWq6Nw

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Kurzweil Forte 7, Korg Vox Continental, QSC K8.2 Powered Speakers
Fender Rhodes '80 Mark II Stage, Yamaha CP-80M




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#2933724 - 06/19/18 06:53 PM Re: new Vox Continental - Some thoughts [Re: synthizen2]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12700
Originally Posted By: synthizen2
In conventional "ROMplerSpeak", splits and layers belong to a memory location called PERFORMANCES or COMBIS or SCENES, etc.

If you want a single sound, then you go to the simpler PROGRAMS or PATCHES memory location.

Although the actual programming and menu-diving can be a little complicated, having things set up in this way is easy to understand. You want a single sound, select a PROGRAM. You want a split or layer, select a PERFORMANCE which contains two or more PROGRAMS that can be played in certain zones on the keybed (depending on how you programmed it).

After having taken the ability to split or layer AWAY from certain pro boards, manufacturers are now trying to shoe-horn the concept back in. But they are causing confusion. Now they come up with 14 different ways to "create a split", making things confusing all over again, when I think they had this problem/concept solved decades ago.


The thing is, not everyone wants to program at all. These "newfangled approaches" are often about being able to grab sounds on the fly, with no advance-of-gig pre-programming. Maybe someone doesn't have the time, or the interest, or is in a band that doesn't work from a known, easily manageable song list. Sometimes you may just want to grab sound X on one part of the keyboard, and while playing, call up sound Y on another part (or layer), and that's what these alternate approaches may try to facilitate.
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