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#2888774 - 11/06/17 07:09 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 946
Originally Posted By: chelsea4023
Hi Mitch,
thanks for getting back to me and giving your views on the Numa 2. As you are a pro player (which I'm not) your requirements from the instrument would be greater than mine. I understand fully about sound getting lost in the mix (I read a lot of these comments when musicians review digital pianos).
I agree with you about the keybed feel. Simply gorgeous with a beautiful ivory finish. I have a Korg PA4X arranger, and previously had a Yamaha Tyros 5, £2,200 and £2,750 U.K. respectively and neither had a keybed of the quality of the Numa 2.
I know that new "Organ sets" were posted on the Studiologic website which I downloaded and loaded into the Numa 2. Did you try these, or had you already sold it on ? Not sure if they would have been enough for you to keep hold of it though.

Anyway Mitch, it's good to know you have the Mojo that you are happy with. I've sold my Numa 2 on (purely as I wanted a two manual clone), and now have a Viscount Key B Live.
Chris



There were three sets included in the Numa 2. I think the ones you are talking about that were available for download were for the Numa 1 and were included in the Numa 2. I could be wrong, since the internal architecture of the Numa 2 is different than the Numa 1.

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#2888831 - 11/06/17 01:29 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Mitch Towne]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi Mitch,

Studiologic Numa 2 download page.

http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_organ2/#downloads

Chris

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#2888841 - 11/06/17 02:27 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Jazz+]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 959
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Jazz+


Here is Brian with his daughter. Iím gonna pick a part this arrangement and Steel as many licks as I can from Brian. What is his main draw a bar setting when he solos? Does he varry his drawbar settings much?


Thanks for sharing that video. Looks like I'm back on a BA binge tonight.

Also kinda nice, I'm now at the point where I'm listening to stuff and I'm like "Hey! I know that lick!"


Edited by Nadroj (11/06/17 02:28 PM)
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#2888976 - 11/07/17 08:15 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Nadroj]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5509
Brian Auger has a great left hand on the Rhodes, he use the notes in his chords to percuss a variety of rhythmic chord comps, sort of like a one handed clavinet funk player Itís very independent from the right hand soloing. I wonder if he gets a sore shoulder, playing with the left arm raised impinges the joint.
That snappy sound and velocity sensitity that his Rhodes provides would be lost on the lower manual . Is it correct that the Mojo 61 hardware will never accommodate and organ / Rhodes split no matter how they rewrite the program?


Edited by Jazz+ (11/07/17 08:29 AM)
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#2888988 - 11/07/17 09:08 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Jazz+]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2730
Loc: Take a guess ....
If they included the gemini module in the Mojo you'd be able to do this.
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#2888991 - 11/07/17 09:28 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
area51recording Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1741
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: count doerflera
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
It's weak spot might be the acoustic piano samples, they do not move as quickly as the other modeled sounds do.


I thought they fixed that for you. wink


The AP is better since they trimmed the start point, but it is still unsatisfying to play. When I try to dig in it doesn't respond, unlike the Rhodes, Wurli, and clav.


interesting. I have this very same issue with my Electro 3. I love playing Rhodes, Wurlie and clav sounds on it, but can't connect with ANY of the available AP's at all....

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#2889001 - 11/07/17 10:43 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: area51recording]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11211
Originally Posted By: area51recording
I have this very same issue with my Electro 3. I love playing Rhodes, Wurlie and clav sounds on it, but can't connect with ANY of the available AP's at all....

For some reason, I find that the pianos are playing better on the Electro 5D than they did on the Electro 3 or the Nord Stage 2-73.
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#2889014 - 11/07/17 12:36 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: AnotherScott]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2730
Loc: Take a guess ....
" ... I have this very same issue with my Electro 3. I love playing Rhodes, Wurlie and clav sounds on it, but can't connect with ANY of the available AP's at all....

I had the same issue, I felt the acoustic piano was too compressed and couldn't get the correct expression when playing. On the Gemini model I went into the sample player and adjusted the attack to my liking and the dynamics now feel right to me. What I don't like is the sustain pedal feeling; even though I adjusted the "harp" setting, the sustain pedal introduces too much saturation of the sound, kind of unnaturally saturated. I wish I could get the sustain to work like it does on my PC3 where I was able to easily address the sustain amount and match it to my baby grand.
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#2890363 - 11/14/17 11:12 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Delaware Dave]
mate stubb Online   content
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Back on topic - I took delivery of a Legend Live today.



My Mojo dual is across town in the studio right now, so a face to face shootout must wait.

Initial impression - it sounded very different to the Mojo to me out of the box, and strange. It took most of the day playing, taking a break and coming back with fresh ears to start appreciating it as its own thing. Hardware is fabulous. Everything you need, no bigger and no heavier than it has to be, full patch points and connectors.

I think the Mojo has the edge still on details like chorus vib and key click. Percussion is great on both, with the edge to Viscount because the level and decay controls are right out front. The sim on the Legend is pretty nice. I can't comment on how it compares to Mojo since I am used to a Vent. That's another item for the shootout.

I think where the Legend is going to shine is cutting in a live situation. The 3 band EQ is a lot more effective than Mojo's, and heavier OD levels can also increase the ability to cut through. Won't get a chance to find out until Thursday.

Meanwhile, I have been getting some fabulous tone in the studio with Mojo thru a 145, so maybe its forte will turn out to be recording.
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#2890383 - 11/15/17 05:14 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Al Quinn Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 884
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
How do you like the action on the Legend Live?
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#2890404 - 11/15/17 06:41 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: AnotherScott]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: area51recording
I have this very same issue with my Electro 3. I love playing Rhodes, Wurlie and clav sounds on it, but can't connect with ANY of the available AP's at all....

For some reason, I find that the pianos are playing better on the Electro 5D than they did on the Electro 3 or the Nord Stage 2-73.


... and, the Nord Stage 3 is the same as the Electro 5D in this regard. The piano are quite good - maybe not quite as good as a Dexibell though.

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#2890405 - 11/15/17 06:44 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Al Quinn]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 51
Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
How do you like the action on the Legend Live?


I think that the action on my Live is quite good but this is so subjective. Players have very different opinions of a keybed action. I think that the Live is very solid and reassuring. There is no wobble in the keys and the sensitivity is good for me.

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#2890408 - 11/15/17 06:48 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: teashea]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 51
Just like the differences among different B3's family organs, the are differences between the Mojo and Legend (or Live). If one gets used to the sound of one, the other is going to sound questionable. It is a natural response. I find that it is difficult to determine if one sound is better than the other - just a little different. But I know that some players like a particular type of sound and will prefer one or the other.

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#2890419 - 11/15/17 07:14 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3957
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Back on topic - I took delivery of a Legend Live today.


Canīt wait for your review and comparison to real deal and other clones !

A.C.

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#2890431 - 11/15/17 09:04 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Al Coda]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1756
I am curious if there are new organ sets for the Numa 2, or if the original Numa 1 sounds can be downloaded into the Numa 2.

I don't get to get my hands on a Numa 2 much if at all these days. But I have played both the Viscount and Mojo recently and the keybeds on those don't seem to be much different than the original Numa 1 TP 80.

I am hoping that Crumar sees fit to revise the Mojo
( particularly the leslie sim) at some point soon. I guess my ear is just dialed into the Key B approach.

We apparently each like something different.

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#2890435 - 11/15/17 09:38 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Al Quinn]
mate stubb Online   content
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
How do you like the action on the Legend Live?


It's stiff. As are the drawbars and the CV knob. It put me off at first, but I got somewhat used to it by the end of the day. Mojo still plays better. The Legend would greatly benefit from a new set of springs.

Drawbars I suspect will loosen up.
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#2890452 - 11/15/17 11:29 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi Mate stubb,
Just a couple of small points, but the legend and Legend Live are new organs.
One owner remarked on the Facebook users Forum how the keyboard action on his had softened slightly with regular use.
Regarding the sounds and effects, I know Lars Hamre, Newtone Sounds (reponsible for the organ sounds in the Legend and the Live) reads all the forum posts he can and takes all suggestions on board with the result that Pat Bianchi is currently auditioning and giving feedback to Viscount on new organ sounds and effects that will be given in a free software update imminently.
I think it's right to say that the Legend models soundwise (and in response to user feedback) are only going to improve in time. I would be curious to know how many software updates the Crumar Mojo has had since it's inception, the Legend organs are yet to have their first one !!
Chris

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#2890481 - 11/15/17 02:32 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1869
After a couple weeks with the Mojo I've got it dialed in to sound just like I like it, to the point where I'm using it instead of the house B3 and Leslie on half a dozen gigs at two different clubs this month. It sounds that good, and it's that much fun to play, and unlike the two B3s in question, everything about it works all the time.

Something I've learned is that the warm "purring" sound I like isn't just a matter of overdrive (as I had previously thought), but a combination of overdrive and crosstalk. Getting the balance of those two just right made all the difference for me.
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#2890499 - 11/15/17 03:30 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
mate stubb Online   content
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15499
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff

Something I've learned is that the warm "purring" sound I like isn't just a matter of overdrive (as I had previously thought), but a combination of overdrive and crosstalk. Getting the balance of those two just right made all the difference for me.


Would be interested in the parameter values you have set for these two - Xtalk level and brilliance, OD 1 or 2, etc?
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#2890503 - 11/15/17 04:11 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/02/14
Posts: 231
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff

Something I've learned is that the warm "purring" sound I like isn't just a matter of overdrive (as I had previously thought), but a combination of overdrive and crosstalk. Getting the balance of those two just right made all the difference for me.


Would be interested in the parameter values you have set for these two - Xtalk level and brilliance, OD 1 or 2, etc?


I don't have enough experience playing true tonewheels and am guessing with a lot of the adjustments, so I'd be interested in where you've set all the parameters if you're willing to post them.
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#2890505 - 11/15/17 04:33 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3957
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: mate stubb

It's stiff. As are the drawbars and the CV knob.


The drawbars are plastic or metal (like in MAG) ?
Stepless like drawfaders or the other way around ?

A.C.

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#2890521 - 11/15/17 07:28 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Al Coda]
mate stubb Online   content
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15499
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: mate stubb

It's stiff. As are the drawbars and the CV knob.


The drawbars are plastic or metal (like in MAG) ?
Stepless like drawfaders or the other way around ?


The drawbar is merely a metal slide which moves a slide pot under the covers, so stepless.
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#2890633 - 11/16/17 02:18 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 946
Regarding TP80 actions, they might loosen up a bit over time, but the stock TP80 that Nord and Viscount use is not ever going to loosen to the point where it feels the same as the Mojo. Crumar found the sweet spot.

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#2890646 - 11/16/17 03:38 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
Lars Hamre Offline
Member

Registered: 06/30/17
Posts: 4
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: chelsea4023
Regarding the sounds and effects, I know Lars Hamre, Newtone Sounds (reponsible for the organ sounds in the Legend and the Live) reads all the forum posts he can and takes all suggestions on board with the result that Pat Bianchi is currently auditioning and giving feedback to Viscount on new organ sounds and effects that will be given in a free software update imminently.

That is not entirely accurate. I am developing the DSP software, but I'm not responsible for the actual sounds and parameter settings. I also don't decide what changes go in. That is 100% up to Viscount.

Pat is not the only one making changes. There are a few others involved. What seems to be holding up the update is that each one takes the sound in different directions, so someone must decide on what will be the "final settings", so to speak.

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#2890651 - 11/16/17 04:03 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Lars Hamre]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6373
Loc: thin ice
thanks for clearing that up, Lars. cheers
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#2890673 - 11/16/17 05:48 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: davedoerfler]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi,
My apologies to both Lars Hamre and the Forum members for my incorrect information regarding Lars input to the key B Legend organs.
What I would like to emphasise here is that Viscount as a Company in conjunction with Key B are working pro-actively towards improving the sounds and features of their Legend organs for the benefit of users. As I stated in my previous post, Forums are being monitored by Lars and other staff to obtain feedback from users towards this process.
Chris

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#2890692 - 11/16/17 08:45 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
mate stubb Online   content
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15499
I went all Brian Auger tonight at rehearsal with my first chance to hear how the Legend would cut with other instruments. It didn't disappoint.



I think this setup could work really well if I add some of my patented slides to move the piano forward when doing heavy work on the Nord.

Everyone in the band felt the Legend projected more clearly than they were used to with the Mojo, and that it cut thru the band well. I played it thru my TT08a speakers and left EQ flat on the mixer. Aside from a couple of notes near the bottom end of the keyboard which had a bit of boom, the Legend seems pretty even in response up and down the range. I'm told these loud notes are fixed in the next update.

The tone can be pushed into the dirty range pretty far and still stay focused. When I first turned it on I didn't like the rock leslie or the rock overdrive, but I found a sweet spot that gets me into Gregg Rolie or Keith Emerson territory.

The percussion volume and decay knobs are super useful. I find myself tweaking them all the time for different registrations and overdrive levels.

Overall it was quite inspiring to play. I kind of went into beast mode and started slapping it around like you do a real console when you are loose and comfortable. The stiff action didn't bother me. The full drawbar sets are THE BOMB. God how I have missed having these on a clone. I don't mind the mini lit switches of the Live as opposed to the more authentic tabs of the big Legend. The Stage was able to set up top and was comfortable to stand and play and access the panel (when I slid it forward a bit!) Top marks for ergonomic design.

Of course, I have my wish list.

Top of the list is refining the chorus vibrato to make it shimmer more like the real thing. Everyone knows this is one of the best features of the Mojo, and there are certain places on the keyboard with certain registrations where the FM component dominates too much and it gets warbly.

Next, please give me more control of the click. I'm a click man. I like a lot of click. I'd like control of the length, because I like it longer and to splat a little bit. I'd also like a color control to make it darker in tone. And maybe even more level - I have it pretty much cranked and there are times when the overdrive is high that I could use even more.

Finally, spring that keybed the same way Crumar does!
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Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

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#2890710 - 11/17/17 01:41 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
Paul Harrison Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 361
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
... refine the chorus vibrato to make it shimmer more

... more control of the click ... more level

... spring that keybed [lighter]


like

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