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#2885162 - 10/15/17 11:10 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Cybersoniq]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11211
Yeah, questions about sound quality and action aside (big caveat there, yes), the J7 functionality seems to beat the Roland and Vox offerings overall, especially as a "single board" solution. Better split/layer functionality, better custom patch recall, better MIDI implementation, motorized faders, ability to load custom samples. Not perfect... no pitch/mod wheels, no aftertouch. And while it has a good deal of MIDI flexibility, there doesn't appear to be a way to include user-defined MIDI Program Changes in the user presets, though in theory, at least that might be addressable in a software update. Personally, it would probably be my pick of the three, at least on paper. Though also the most expensive of the three, approaching the price of the NE5D, which I really like despite some obvious limitations.
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#2885241 - 10/16/17 02:58 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Cybersoniq]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 959
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Cybersoniq
Originally Posted By: ap297
My wish; 76 or 88 note with pitch and mod wheels. Maybe based off the DMC-122 form factor. The ultimate "take one board to the gig solution". Would sell like hotcakes!

Well we will just have to standby for the news from GSI:
https://www.facebook.com/GenuineSoundwar...e=3&theater

With the combo 73-key/waterfall key form factor competition heating up with the Vox Continental ($2199) and the Roland VR-730 ($1499)...maybe a DMC-73/Mojo 73 can slide in between in price with its top class tone-wheel organ models/rotary sim and growing stable of modeled and sampled-based instruments. What does Guido have cooking in the lab??? rockit


I assumed this was just the lower manual for the MOJO 61. Am I way wrong?
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#2885244 - 10/16/17 03:17 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Nadroj]
Kurt W Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 204
Originally Posted By: Nadroj


I assumed this was just the lower manual for the MOJO 61. Am I way wrong?

Yes; «We'll be releasing something new by the end of this year... What will it be?... :)»

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#2885252 - 10/16/17 05:01 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Kurt W]
Spider76 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 358
My bet is either a single-manual DMC, or a Mojo2 based on DMC-Mojo61 DSP technology.

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#2885264 - 10/16/17 06:40 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Spider76]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3957
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: Spider76
My bet is either a single-manual DMC, or a Mojo2 based on DMC-Mojo61 DSP technology.


I hope for Mojo-61 mkII w/ twice the DSP power for 4 channel-multi-timbrality (also over MIDI), 2 sets of drawbars (1 each for upper and lower) plus 2 drawbars for the pedals and more than 2 (ideally 12) user-programmable drawbar-preset locations for upper as also lower.
The preset system for the non-organ sounds should be individually accessable.

I`d wish to get out dual manual organ & pedals,- and 1 additional instrument (p.ex. Rhodes) being triggered via MIDI in addition and when not using MIDI for additional instruments, trigger ´em local from upper or lower manual should be a user selectable option.
When those features include user selectable layering of additional instruments w/ upper- or lower manual organ, that would be ice on the cake.

A.C.

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#2885279 - 10/16/17 07:47 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Al Coda]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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i'm going to do this once, and only once.

Originally Posted By: Spider76
My bet is either a single-manual DMC, or a Mojo2 based on DMC-Mojo61 DSP technology.

No, and no.

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
I hope for Mojo-61 mkII w/ twice the DSP power (etc etc)

That's not it either.

To be clear - I do not mean that none of these are possible future products. I'm just saying none of them are the impending product about which the Crumar guys are currently teasing.

dB
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#2885282 - 10/16/17 08:14 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Dave Bryce]
Spider76 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 358
This is mean, Dave.
Why crush so cruelly our humble hopes and dreams?

deadhorse roll

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#2885286 - 10/16/17 08:19 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Dave Bryce]
tfort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 99
Bummer.

Will it announced before December?

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#2885290 - 10/16/17 08:34 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Dave Bryce]
drawback Offline
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Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3253
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Grave Bryce
i'm going to do this once, and only once.

Originally Posted By: Spider76
My bet is either a single-manual DMC, or a Mojo2 based on DMC-Mojo61 DSP technology.

No, and no.

Originally Posted By: Al Coda
I hope for Mojo-61 mkII w/ twice the DSP power (etc etc)

That's not it either.

To be clear - I do not mean that none of these are possible future products. I'm just saying none of them are the impending product about which the Crumar guys are currently teasing.

dB


Thank you, dB!

From what I've been reading I'm expecting an improvement - perhaps a modeled - acoustic piano for the Mojo61. Then perhaps if that's in the wind, a GSI/Crumar piano is in the works.

I'd be happy with them finishing up the Clavinet, but hey, I'm in the minority.

laugh
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#2885394 - 10/16/17 04:42 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: drawback]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5509
Model the AP and the mojo 61 would be near perfection. Maybe add a amplitude scale that could adjust the level of the organ's highest notes....
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#2885395 - 10/16/17 04:48 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Jazz+]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Model the AP and the mojo 6 would be near perfection.

It's easy to say, but the best modeling is Roland V and Pianoteq... and not everyone agrees that these sound better (or even as good) as some of the sampled pianos, though there does seem to be a good consensus that they play very naturally, regardless of what you think of how they sound. Bottom line: modeling a piano is tricky.
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#2885399 - 10/16/17 05:16 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: AnotherScott]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
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How they play is what is important. Modeled pianos sound fine live and tend to behave (respond) more realistically.
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Casio PX-360 digital piano. (26 lbs, has 4 internal speakers); Mojo 61. Sibelius 6, Transcribe!, 2 EV SxA360 powered speakers; 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano. Mackie 12" mixer, iPhone 6.

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#2885410 - 10/16/17 06:23 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Spider76]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Spider76
This is mean, Dave.
Why crush so cruelly our humble hopes and dreams?

deadhorse roll

hitt evil Python grin

dB

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rockit ==> ReverbNation • SoundCloud <==rawk


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#2885413 - 10/16/17 06:46 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Dave Bryce]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1756
I sat in on a Viscount single manual last night.... the new one, the Key B Live 61 or whatever it is called.

Right off the bat the keybed felt strange. It actually felt stiffer
than my Numa 1 or what I remember the Mojo 61 felt like.

I couldn't get a good sound out of it. I was literally in a dark space and couldn't read all the knobs... and there were many of them.

I had a much easier time when the guy had the Numa 2. I remember thinking that was the best keybed I ever played and I was able to get a good sound out of it fairly easily.

I liked the Legend dual manual when I demoed it, but I was at a loss as to what to do to get this 61 to sound good and play easily.

If you get the new Key B/ Viscount 61 , try to play the one you are going to buy. This one had extremely stiff action, that's all I can tell you....


Edited by LX88 (10/16/17 06:47 PM)

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#2885414 - 10/16/17 06:48 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: drawback]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
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Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: clawback
I'd be happy with them finishing up the Clavinet, but hey, I'm in the minority.


rimshot
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#2885440 - 10/16/17 11:28 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: tfort]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: tfort
I would think modelling an acoustic piano is far more difficult than modelling Rhodes, Wurli, etc. Modartt and Roland have been working on it for years and still there are people who don't like the sound.

Maybe if Guido and Andrea focused on modelling a piano solely for live use, intended to sacrifice some harmonic complexity to be able to cut through a mix better, it would be easier to get a decent one done quickly and with relatively low computer resources required.


I think Guido has already done some work writing modelled piano code. If I recall correctly, he did a CP-70/80 VST which was 100% modelled. I thought it sounded a lot like a CP, and it played nicely.
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#2885442 - 10/17/17 01:55 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: mate stubb]
sosho Offline
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Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
The current CP 70 in the GSI hardware appears to be PM.description on the GSI website " Electric Baby Grand piano

This is a simulation of a Yamaha CP-70, it offers full polyphony (73 notes) and is based partly on the physical modeling techniques with the use of sampled attack transients. While, in this case, realism is more of a compromise, playability is still a big plus. This instrument, being simulated, offers a wide dynamic range, sympathetic resonance, realistic noises and artifacts, and a rich frequency response.

My bet would also be a modeled Piano , hopefully 76 keys available with a better action than the nord HP . The dexibell 76 key model did not feel as strange as the nord HP as far as I remember

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#2885444 - 10/17/17 02:49 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: sosho]
Six-string-man Offline
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Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 1343
Loc: U.K.
I'm desperately hoping for a 73 key single manual Mojo, with two sets of drawbars, bi-timbrality, an effects loop, and 11 pin Leslie out.

I would be all over that.
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#2885460 - 10/17/17 06:29 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Six-string-man]
Spider76 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 358
I think we're going a bit off topic...
wink


Edited by Spider76 (10/17/17 08:14 AM)

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#2885464 - 10/17/17 06:53 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Spider76]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2730
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: Spider76
I think we're going to bit off topic...
wink
That's how we roll here .....
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#2885615 - 10/18/17 04:56 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Delaware Dave]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi FunkKey Stuff,

Sorry to hear you are leaving the Key B family, but at least you have found a clone that ticks all the boxes for you.

I wanted to mention that I had read a post on the Key B Facebook Forum regarding the stiff keyboard action. One member posted to say that with time and regular playing, the action softened. How true that is, I cannot say but for me personally I don't have a problem with my Legend Live (although it is the two manual model).

I also read posts from Lars Hamre and Tom Erik Skram (Newtone) who created the organ sounds for the Legend and legend Live and Elvio Previatti (the man who brought the Key B organs to the world) saying that free software updates would be provided in the near future to cover anything from new organ sounds to midi functions.

Quote from Elvio, " Dear, we are redoing the clones inside the Legend. They will are availables on the next release very soon. Thank you. Please.. don't ask when because there are lot of modifies so we are debugging it and we need of time to be sure that everything works in good way".

And another quote from Elvio,

"Dear, we are modifying the MIDI In, Out and USB. these modifies will are availables on the next release very soon. About the Analog In noise I'll test it. Regards".

I think this will show Forum members that the team responsible behind the Viscount Key B organs are working pro-actively to provide support to their products.

Everybody's requirements are different from a keyboard. It could come down to the actual style of music they play.

For me personally, I have always wanted a Hammond clone. I never wanted a real Hammond, in the same way I would never want a classic car. Too much hassle, too many complications !!
I did not care what clone I bought, as long as it sounded reasonably like a Hammond. Fortunately the Viscount Key B fits the bill !!

And if I'm being totally honest (I expect some crticism for my next comment) some of the posts I am reading (on both this and the Key B Forums) make we wonder why some people bought their Key B organs in the first place. Did they not try them out before purchasing them ?

Although I am not a pro player,since I set up my Viscount Key B Legend Live, I have been going through the manual and trying all the features and sounds out and it's honestly been Fun with a capital 'F'.

Chris

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#2885621 - 10/18/17 05:26 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
analogholic Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/26/06
Posts: 800
Thanks a lot for the info Chris.
Good to know that they are still working to improve the sound and functions even further.
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#2885627 - 10/18/17 05:59 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: analogholic]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi,
Just to clarify a point.
The last couple of comments I made were not aimed at FunkKey Stuff.
I fully understand his reasons for changing.
I only hope that once he's changed to a Mojo 61, Viscount don't release new clone sounds and changes to features that would have satisfied his requirements (after all, Key B legend products are currently on version 1.0 software).
Chris

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#2885643 - 10/18/17 06:59 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
Barryjam Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 250
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
Chelsea,

Many players are unable to audition clones before buying, let alone being able to compare clones side by side.
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Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

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#2885646 - 10/18/17 07:06 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 332
great to hear they are already working on updates , i have a few issues , not many, i'd like addressed .some leslie sim tweaks
( as in the mic distance on the rock setting ) . i wish there was
some way to adjust the trigger point as it's a little too high for my liking . it just doesn't feel very "natural" under my
fingers is the only way i can describe it . it works for rabid
fire staccato riffs but i think they can tone it down a bit

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#2885688 - 10/18/17 08:45 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Delaware Dave]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6373
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Originally Posted By: Spider76
I think we're going to bit off topic...
wink
That's how we roll here .....


QFT. I am personally responsible for quite a bit of that. blush
Anyway, back to regularly scheduled programming.
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Tim Wat

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#2885713 - 10/18/17 09:44 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2730
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: chelsea4023
I also read posts from Lars Hamre and Tom Erik Skram (Newtone) who created the organ sounds for the Legend and legend Live and Elvio Previatti (the man who brought the Key B organs to the world) saying that free software updates would be provided in the near future to cover anything from new organ sounds to midi functions.
Yes, Elvio is notorious for actively updating keyboards like the Voce Key5 (only 9 made); the Numa organ and Numa organ 2

http://www.harmonycentral.com/reviews/product/voce-key-5/425362

excerpt: -> ".. But the maker of this organ, maestro Elvio Previati told me he is working on new eproms with some different settings and he will send me those chips!.." Hmmm, guess that never happened...

How about the Numa organ upgrades, how many were there, one? then when the organ upgrade didn't work where did you go to get help? oops, nobody home. KeyB, , look at the website:

http://www.keyborgan.com/

still says coming soon; not updated since 2013. Sound like someone you can trust 5 years from now when you have issues with your keyboard....

Their support page? a couple of PDF's....

_________________________
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#2885780 - 10/18/17 06:06 PM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Delaware Dave]
chelsea4023 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 123
Hi,

Just wanted to pick up on a couple of points Delaware Dave has mentioned.

Although I cannot comment on the Voce Key 5, I did actually purchase a Studiologic Numa2 Organ from a shop in Denmark Street, London (Wunjo Guitars I think). I was happy with the sound, it was built like a tank and was reasonably priced £800ish U.K. The leslie sim was really good.
I had a problem with the leslie switch and contacted the U.K. Distibutors MSL Professional in Reading (just West of London). One of their sales managers was travelling to London the following morning, and brought a brand new boxed Numa 2 organ to my home and replaced it with the one I had. He helped me unbox and set up the new organ, test it and make sure it was working o.k. before heading into London for a meeting.
I downloaded some software from the studiologic website that gave me new organ clones and some general improvements to the working of the Numa 2.
I have given a link to the website.
http://studiologic-music.com/products/numa_organ2/#downloads

I eventually sold the Numa 2 as I wanted to get a two manual organ.

There is no defense of Elvio's poorly updated Website for the Key B organs, although he does have a working download page with manuals and updates for his Key B organs.
http://www.keyborgan.com/support/

Viscount(an Italian Classical organ company)have signed a deal with Elvio to produce and manufacture the new range of organs. Thus the name Viscount Key B Legend and Viscount Key B Legend Live.
On a personal level, I think this is a fantastic merger that finally brings the Key B organ to the world stage, at such a low price I never expected Viscount could produce them for.

There is a website on Facebook for the Viscount Key B organs.
https://www.facebook.com/KeyBLegend/

There is also a users group for the new organs which is very active.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1220600077994273/

I fully understand Dave's comments regarding Elvio, of which several are justified.
I do think that now Viscount have taken over the manufacture and distribution side, hopefully it will allow Elvio and the Newtone team to concentrate on producing firmware updates, and research and development.

Chris

p.s. If there are no Firmware updates on these organs whatsoever, it would not be a great concern to me.
I had to travel to Northampton to view the organs (130 mile round trip) and was so impressed I purchased one.


Edited by chelsea4023 (10/18/17 06:24 PM)
Edit Reason: addition

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#2885845 - 10/19/17 06:17 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: chelsea4023]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2730
Loc: Take a guess ....
I would love to see KeyB be successful. And perhaps now that Elvio appears to be focused on the design/manufacture side and hopefully has exited the marketing arena there may be a chance and I wish them well. The layout of the keyboard started with his Voce Key5 days; which was also picked up by Diversi and marketed as the DV100:

http://voceinc.com/datasheet.html

He just has no business in the marketing side and as long as he stays away and lets the people with expertise market the product it has a chance of successful. Again, I wish him well; but his track record of 15 years would dictate a market failure and IMO he has to earn back the respect he's lost in the marketing arena over the past 15 years.


_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2885923 - 10/19/17 10:24 AM Re: Totally unofficial Mojo 61/Viscount Legend shootout [Re: Delaware Dave]
Spider76 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 358
Well, Viscount is the undisputed leader in the electronic church organ market. They provide their worldwide distribution, service and marketing network.
What I'm not sure of, is if they actually build the Legend and provide quality control, so basically Elvio designs the instrument and the sound engine, and everything else is left to Viscount. I strongly hope so.

Teaming with them should be a HUGE step forward, like for a small boutique piano artisan to have his products built and marketed by Yamaha.
In theory this should be a failure-proof situation, and jump-start the Legend instantly ahead of Crumar, UHL, Numa and the like. But you never know how partnerships go in the real world, finger cross...

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