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#2884535 - 10/11/17 08:41 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: mate stubb]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
Yes, you could use U/D for one 'board and L/R for the other, or if you don't need independent control, connect both 'boards to the U/D jacks and control them both with one axis.

I'm not sure about the FC-7 but the specs for the 4E say 20° of travel for each axis.


Edited by Bill Spencer (10/11/17 09:09 PM)

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#2884549 - 10/11/17 09:47 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 1130
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Wow, that sounds pretty impressive except for the throw. The FC7 has 30 degrees of throw. I've never used a pedal with a side-to-side axis, but the FC7 at 30 degrees is about the minimum I'd want to use for expression. I should open one of mine up and see if there's a way to get a dual-gang pot in there.

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#2884562 - 10/12/17 03:51 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5773
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer


This is a really well designed, engineered, and built pedal. Very solid and smooth with great throw length and controllability. There are switches to flip polarity, convert to a "TS" type pedal, even switch two of the pots to 10K. Not cheap, at $269, but wow, just wow.


Hey cool - thanks Bill. Captured in spreadsheet based on your info. I don't have FB so let me know if corrections are needed.

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#2884563 - 10/12/17 03:58 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: OB Dave]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
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Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
I should open one of mine up and see if there's a way to get a dual-gang pot in there.


Pretty tight but maybe? Finding the right pot is the tricky part.


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#2884599 - 10/12/17 07:45 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
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Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer


This DUAL AXIS pedal features 2 SETS (4 total) 25k pots.
...
There are switches ..., even switch two of the pots to 10K.


I wonder why not possible for all FOUR pots,- and are the pots linear or logarithmic/ audio taper ?

For most keyboards, except those using Yamaha FC-7 (50K), we need 10K linear !

A.C.

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#2884618 - 10/12/17 08:58 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Al Coda]
Markyboard Offline
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Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Ah, just noticed the links to the specs. And they have another variation of this pedal that also has a dual I/O volume function
in the M440 model:





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#2884632 - 10/12/17 10:02 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: DarkyLord
Ah, just noticed the links to the specs. And they have another variation of this pedal that also has a dual I/O volume function
in the M440 model:


Up Down volume only potentiometer resistance 500k.

Panning potentiometer resistance 500k.

Up Down expression resistance is 50k linear
.

For sure the "PAN"-pot is for placement into the audio path of a given rig,- the 50K pot might be usable for expression or any MIDI CC like a Yammi FC7 pedal, but w/ limited throw (20°).

The other pedal mentioned above at least offers 1 pot for 10K expression when being switched to that value,- but IMO and for the price, itīs not very satisfying for a keyboardplayer when the demand is replacing 2 10K lin expression pedals by only ONE multi-functional pedal unit.

A.C.

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#2884636 - 10/12/17 10:27 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Al Coda]
mate stubb Offline
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Posts: 16078
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

The other pedal mentioned above at least offers 1 pot for 10K expression when being switched to that value,- but IMO and for the price, itīs not very satisfying for a keyboardplayer when the demand is replacing 2 10K lin expression pedals by only ONE multi-functional pedal unit.

A.C.


I read that differently - "Potentiometers resistance 25k Linear. Switchable to 10k on U/D1 and L/R1." Seems you can get 10K on both axes.
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#2884667 - 10/12/17 03:01 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Al Coda]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Al Coda


I wonder why not possible for all FOUR pots,- and are the pots linear or logarithmic/ audio taper ?

For most keyboards, except those using Yamaha FC-7 (50K), we need 10K linear !

A.C.


Pots are all linear, for use with pedal inputs. The other pedal they offer has Log taper pots for use with audio signals.

I tried it with my Kurx PC3K and, although the specs say it wants to see 10k, it works great on the 25k setting, too.

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#2884668 - 10/12/17 03:06 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
Today I added USB MIDI to one of my new 4E pedals. Amazing.

Installed LIVID's "Brain Jr." board. $50, fits like it was made for it. For use with MainStage, and still leaves one set of jacks to use. WHEEE!!




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#2884669 - 10/12/17 03:11 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: mate stubb]
Bill Spencer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: matted stump


I read that differently - "Potentiometers resistance 25k Linear. Switchable to 10k on U/D1 and L/R1." Seems you can get 10K on both axes.


Yep- one SET of pots can be switched to 10k.


Edited by Bill Spencer (10/12/17 03:11 PM)

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#2884727 - 10/12/17 09:40 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 1130
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: DarkyLord
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
I should open one of mine up and see if there's a way to get a dual-gang pot in there.


Pretty tight but maybe? Finding the right pot is the tricky part.



Aw man, that cavity was made for a dual-gang pot. I think it'll just fit. Ok, ima have to dissect one of mine and go pot shopping. Stay tuned...

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#2884734 - 10/12/17 11:57 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: OB Dave]
Bill Spencer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
Originally Posted By: DarkyLord
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
I should open one of mine up and see if there's a way to get a dual-gang pot in there.


Pretty tight but maybe? Finding the right pot is the tricky part.






Aw man, that cavity was made for a dual-gang pot. I think it'll just fit. Ok, ima have to dissect one of mine and go pot shopping. Stay tuned...


It will fit. GO FOR IT!

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#2884745 - 10/13/17 04:18 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5773
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
OK - my bad! But shame on you guys for trusting my ability to use Google facepalm . Here's another pic of the same pedal:



Not sure which pedal this is - but it's not an FC-7. I've reversed polarity on several of my FC-7s and my recollection is that it would be difficult to change out the pot, but I could be wrong. Thought I had pics of my rework but I guess not - my apologies.

Btw Bill that little midi usb board you added is really cool - nice job twothumbs . I may just find a use for one of those in the future.


Edited by DarkyLord (10/13/17 04:25 AM)

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#2884763 - 10/13/17 06:45 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
Bill Spencer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California

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#2885073 - 10/14/17 07:02 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
OB Dave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 1130
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: DarkyLord
Not sure which pedal this is - but it's not an FC-7.

Hahahah, you're right. It's not an FC-7. I discovered this when I opened my my FC-7. It looks completely different inside.



It's actually kind of a beautifully designed pedal. The FC-7 doesn't use a gear, instead there's a spring-loaded cam, and there's this whole other crazy thing in there to give the pedal some friction. The pot is an Alps but 116G doesn't appear to be a standard Alps part number, and going through the catalog I don't see anything exactly like it. Alps appears to only be distributed by Mouser in the US and I didn't find it there either. I am guessing this is a special pot made for Yamaha.

However, I took some measurements with a caliper and found an Alps mechanical drawing for a very similar pot - I am guessing the mechanical components are used for the special Yamaha pot - and using that drawing I did find three potential candidates that all have the same approximate shaft length and type. All 10k linear dual-gang pots, one Alps, one Bourns, and one Taiwan Alpha. I need to order up some other stuff anyway so I'll throw these on the order and see what I can make any of 'em work when they arrive.

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#2887099 - 10/25/17 05:26 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: OB Dave]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16078
I've added my name to the list for the 4E pedal. Hoping to get in on the current run.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2887136 - 10/25/17 10:20 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: mate stubb]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1321
Loc: Southern Calif.
Moe, I'd love to hear your review if you get one soon, my needs also being for a single expression pedal for 2 boards. I've got a Nord and Kurz, and would love to save the room underneath with a single pedal.....


Edited by zxcvbnm098 (10/25/17 10:20 PM)

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#2887146 - 10/25/17 11:28 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: zxcvbnm098]
mate stubb Offline
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Posts: 16078
Will do.
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#2887154 - 10/26/17 01:41 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Joe Muscara]
Spider76 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 414
Originally Posted By: Bone Muskeleton

Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
I just got a Quik Lok pedal with a switchable polarity:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049B3GFC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Does it feel like a long throw? If you want to try it with a Mojo 61, you know what to do. wink I'd like to try it myself.


I also have the QuikLok VP26U. It's pretty good for what it is: a cheap, plastic pedal. It's in the same category as the M-Audio one.
Interesting that it's marketed as a "volume" pedal, but having a TRS jack and switchable polarity, can work equally well for expression.

It's not long throw, the range is not even comparable to the FC7 or FV-500L.
It will not be great for organ, but it's OK to use with synths, so I use it in two-keyboards-two-expr-pedals rigs where one keyboard doesn't need extremely precise control.
Also, it works with any keyboard, it's cheap and lightweight. For me, that makes it the perfect backup pedal, to have in the bag "just in case".

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#2887176 - 10/26/17 04:14 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Spider76]
Bill Spencer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/15/11
Posts: 333
Loc: Northern California
I hope you guys aren't missing the point of how cool having the dual axes is. On a synth patch, for instance, if you have the L/R assigned to filter cutoff freq, you then have essentially another envelope generator- you can do filter envelopes with your foot, totally controllable. One of my favorite applications: on strings patches, I have the L/R set to modify the amp envelope attack and decay rates, so hard left becomes a slow string pad, and hard right speeds up the envelope rates to allow the playing of quick runs. I have a choir pad where the L/R crossfades from "oohs" to "ahhs". On Rhodes patches, L/R controls stereo tremelo speed, similar on Wurlis and Vibes. Clavs, it's a wah. You can actually think of the pedal as a foot operated joystick due to the two axes.


Edited by Bill Spencer (10/26/17 04:17 AM)

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#2887286 - 10/26/17 02:51 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bill Spencer]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1321
Loc: Southern Calif.
Yeah, it's not the main thing I'm interested in, but I get that it's pretty cool. What a (seemingly) great piece of kit!

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#2887327 - 10/26/17 08:30 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: zxcvbnm098]
DanL Online   content
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How about durability? My Hammond EXP50, over $200, has crapped out on me. Granted it's used extensively- every gig, rehearsal, etc, it's my go to expression pedal. I took it apart and my guess is it's the potentiometer as all the wiring is intact. I've gone back to my nearly 30 year old Boss pedal, the ancestor of the FV500.

I suppose I can replace the pot in the Hammond pedal without too much difficulty, but what's everyone's experience with some of the other long throw pedals regarding durability? The Boss pedal is a good backup but it's not a long enough throw.
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#2887478 - 10/27/17 09:12 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DanL]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Dan, I'd try an FC7. It's 50K ohms but wired backwards for your Roland. You can make an Ashby adapter in about 10 minutes for about $7 and give it a try. Guitar Center has them in stock at the Wilmington store w/ a 30 day return policy. If it doesn't work out return it. The sweep is long.
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#2887481 - 10/27/17 09:48 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Delaware Dave]
davedoerfler Offline
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Quite simply - If you can't play Jump on it, you don't want it.
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#2887490 - 10/27/17 10:44 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Delaware Dave]
DanL Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
Dan, I'd try an FC7. It's 50K ohms but wired backwards for your Roland. You can make an Ashby adapter in about 10 minutes for about $7 and give it a try. Guitar Center has them in stock at the Wilmington store w/ a 30 day return policy. If it doesn't work out return it. The sweep is long.


I'd be using it on the Electro. Both the Roland and Electro are supposed to auto sense the polarity. I have a dual Kurz sustain pedal that is backwards and they both sense it when you power up.

I was thinking about the FC7. It's not that expensive and would be a good option.
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#2887492 - 10/27/17 10:52 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DanL]
Karl Schmeer Offline
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I second the FC7. I have two. One I opened up and flipped the polarity, to use with my Nord NE2. It's also sealed up very well to keep dust and stuff out of the potentiometer.
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#2887507 - 10/28/17 03:11 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DanL]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
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Originally Posted By: DanL

I'd be using it on the Electro. Both the Roland and Electro are supposed to auto sense the polarity. I have a dual Kurz sustain pedal that is backwards and they both sense it when you power up.


For an expression pedal? Not sure how it would know. I'm only aware of auto sense for sustain pedal inputs. But I could be wrong...again mad

(Edit) Now there may be a reverse function setting.


Edited by DarkyLord (10/28/17 04:31 AM)

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#2887516 - 10/28/17 05:10 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
Markay Offline
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From NE3 on there is the option switch from Type 1 to Type 2 in the expression pedal settings.
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#2887529 - 10/28/17 06:35 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Markyboard]
DanL Online   content
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Originally Posted By: DarkyLord
Originally Posted By: DanL

I'd be using it on the Electro. Both the Roland and Electro are supposed to auto sense the polarity. I have a dual Kurz sustain pedal that is backwards and they both sense it when you power up.


For an expression pedal? Not sure how it would know. I'm only aware of auto sense for sustain pedal inputs. But I could be wrong...again mad

(Edit) Now there may be a reverse function setting.


The E5 has a setting for the FC7.

I got one off of Amazon last night for $38. Should be here by mid week.
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