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#2882083 - 09/28/17 08:10 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Delaware Dave]
Phreakay Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave

Well like a few of these comparisons floating around it doesn't address wiring which is the first thing you need to know to match it to your keyboard.

The SOS thread is the most complete that I have found but Markyboard's comparison provides more detail and is up to date.
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#2882089 - 09/28/17 08:34 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Delaware Dave]
DarkyLord Offline
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Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave


Thanks Dave - I've run across other lists but not this particular one. This did remind me that the FV500-L has dual pots - will update. Also the Pigtronix states 20K in the description, but 25K in the spec. Went with the 25K.

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#2882099 - 09/28/17 09:11 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
Bone Muskeleton Offline
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Thanks, Mark! Though I do find it funny that you created this on a computer and then shared it via photos of the printout. wink

I do agree that putting the info somewhere like a Google Doc would be useful.

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#2882291 - 09/29/17 06:39 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Bone Muskeleton]
wjones Offline
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Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 40
This is great (and timely) information. Thanks, Markyboard!

I have a Roland EV-5 and a Yamaha FC7, but honestly I don't like either of them.

I've been looking around for something with some more heft and a better feel without a huge footprint, but haven't found any expression pedal products that interest me. I will now google all the products on your spreadsheet.

I like the look of the Ernie Ball volume pedals (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EB6181) and am considering wiring one to work as an expression pedal. Is anyone else on the forum doing that?
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#2882296 - 09/29/17 07:02 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
wjones Offline
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Registered: 07/02/13
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Hmmm... of your fine list, the Korg XVP20 seems like it might be what I'm looking for. Anyone using one of these with a Nord?
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#2882297 - 09/29/17 07:03 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
Phreakay Offline
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Originally Posted By: wjones

I have a Roland EV-5 and a Yamaha FC7, but honestly I don't like either of them.

What is it you don't like about them?

The EV-5 is wiper on tip, the FC7 is wiper on ring. Are you changing the 'polarity' expression pedal setting in the Electro to suit each pedal?
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#2882316 - 09/29/17 07:47 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave


Thanks Dave - I've run across other lists but not this particular one. This did remind me that the FV500-L has dual pots - will update. Also the Pigtronix states 20K in the description, but 25K in the spec. Went with the 25K.
Yeah, I found what appears to be some inaccuracies in some of their specs as well.....
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#2882322 - 09/29/17 08:09 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Delaware Dave]
GRollins Offline
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Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 203
Although you can always pad a pot out with a fixed resistor to any desired value, it's worth noting that pots trend heavily towards a 1, 2, 5 progression (yes, there are other values, but...), i.e.:

1k
2k
5k
10k
20k
50k
100k...etc.

With that in mind, I'd suggest that it's more likely that the pot in question is, perhaps, a 20k pot.

Unless...they're doing something like this Korg pedal that I'm trying to figure out, where they take a larger value pot and restrict the travel so you're only using a portion of the pot's total value.

I'm not familiar with the pedal in question--just musing out loud from an electronics point of view.

Grey
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#2882328 - 09/29/17 08:19 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Phreakay]
wjones Offline
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Registered: 07/02/13
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Both function fine. It's an angle and feel issue, I think.

The EV-5 served me well for almost 20 years, but I wanted something the felt better to use and had a better build quality. So I moved the EV-5 onto my guitar pedalboard and picked up the FC7 (because so many sing its praises).

I've played with all the adjustments on the FC7 (for angle and such) and I simply don't enjoy using it.

The Korg XVP20 looks might nice. Pricey, but nice. I'm curious to know if anyone is using one with a Nord- my Stage 3 hopefully will be here in a few weeks, and I'd love to upgrade this pedal before it arrives.
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#2882338 - 09/29/17 08:51 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
Phreakay Offline
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Seems like a long throw pedal like the FC7 is not to your liking. I like long throw pedals as they are closest to the classic Hammond swell pedal.

If a short throw pedal is more to your liking the M-Audio EXP sends midi over its full range of travel, and is one of the lowest cost pedals available.
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#2882370 - 09/29/17 11:01 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
DarkyLord Offline
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Originally Posted By: wjones


The Korg XVP20 looks might nice. Pricey, but nice. I'm curious to know if anyone is using one with a Nord- my Stage 3 hopefully will be here in a few weeks, and I'd love to upgrade this pedal before it arrives.


This one's perplexing. The description states 50k-100k or from the manual:
Input impedance: 50K or greater.

I have no idea what this means - Is it the volume or expression side? Both?
Pot value? Wtf? Hoping someone gets their hands on one to measure.

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#2882379 - 09/29/17 11:41 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Phreakay]
wjones Offline
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Registered: 07/02/13
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I believe that's a big part of the problem. I learned to play "organ" on the Roland pedal (not a real Hammond), so the FC7 has a very different throw than what I'm used to. It also has that extra bit of volume left that you have to press to get- which seems cool, but for me, it makes the top volume feel a bit squishy rather than hitting a harder, more satisfying maximum throw.
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The CAT by Octave
Hohner Melodica

Leslie 145
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2 - JBL PRX 612

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#2882389 - 09/29/17 12:38 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
matted stump Offline
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Originally Posted By: wjones
the FC7 has a very different throw than what I'm used to. It also has that extra bit of volume left that you have to press to get- which seems cool, but for me, it makes the top volume feel a bit squishy rather than hitting a harder, more satisfying maximum throw.


Yes, that's lame. Fortunately, there is a screw adjustment under the pedal that allows you to dial that out. Turn the recessed screw labeled Spring Point Adjust fully CCW to disable the spring.
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#2882414 - 09/29/17 03:40 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: matted stump]
wjones Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/02/13
Posts: 40
Thanks for the tip! I'll crank that puppy down and see how I like it. Unfortunately, I think the throw will be (or at least seem) even longer.

I see a Korg XVP-20 in my future. I'll even test the impedance when it comes in... for science!
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Nord Electro 5D 61
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The CAT by Octave
Hohner Melodica

Leslie 145
Silverface Bassman 70 -> Custom 2x10 cabinet
2 - JBL PRX 612

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#2882416 - 09/29/17 04:01 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: wjones]
matted stump Offline
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Embrace the longer throw. It's not even as long as on a real Hammond. You don't typically spend a lot of time pumping a volume pedal back and forth, and longer throw == more precision to get the value you need.

I used to have the short throw Roland pedals and grew to hate them. The only thing I found them good for was wah wah.
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#2882424 - 09/29/17 04:47 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: matted stump]
burningbusch Offline
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I have the Roland RV-7. It does minimum control. Very nice pedal. Long throw. My Yamaha pedals have gotten scratchy over time. The RV-7 is not sealed but nicely enclosed. I just opened mine after many years of it's very clean inside. Good organ expression pedal. Hate the EV-5 in comparison.

Busch.

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#2882430 - 09/29/17 06:43 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: burningbusch]
hardware Offline
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Loc: Nashville, TN.
I used an EV-5 for years.
When it arrived I was pissed on how small it was, but it's been 100% accurate hitting the desired MIDI CC points on larger controllers, so I kept it to kick on ducking delay AUX Channels for solos.
I could pick 47 for the perfect mix of Delay and MIDI Monitors showed it's dead on balls accurate every time.
After a few weeks of Source Audio pedals I'm finally getting used to their skinny but decent size.
Just wish every Expression Pedal was the size of the FC7 and had that Anaconda mouth...
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#2882496 - 09/30/17 09:21 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: hardware]
DarkyLord Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
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Hey guys-
I'm back from NY and I'm working on an update - should be ready early next week.

Busch- thanks for the reverse switch presence (I assume you meant EV-7) I also assume the EV-7 is wired same as EV-5 (Wiper to Tip). Appreciate if you can confirm

Does anyone know how the cable on the Crumar pedals are wired? Hoping Andrea is keeping tabs on this thread

Also Markay advised printing to pdf which I should then be able to post. It'll be great to be back on the bleeding edge of technology (Joe) facepalm grin

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#2882545 - 09/30/17 03:50 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
Karl Schmeer Offline
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Registered: 11/09/08
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Loc: State of Misery
Nice Work Markyboard!!
I have a Proline that I picked up as a spare, if you would like to add it to the list. I can ohm it out.


BTW Thanks again for the capacitor supplier link. I just received 500 pcs and they seem to be just what I need.
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#2882546 - 09/30/17 04:01 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Karl Schmeer]
DarkyLord Offline
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Happy I could help Karl and absolutely I'll include the Proline. The intent is to develop and maintain a comprehensive list.

Thanks twothumbs

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#2882549 - 09/30/17 04:13 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
Karl Schmeer Offline
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Ok be back soon with specs
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#2882560 - 09/30/17 04:44 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
OB Grave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 904
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Does anyone know how the cable on the Crumar pedals are wired?


Yamaha FC7 works perfectly on Crumar Mojo 61, so that'd be wiper on ring.

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#2882574 - 09/30/17 06:17 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Al Coda]
OB Grave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
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Loc: San Diego CA, US
Also, Hammond EXP-20 is 10k ohms, wiper on tip.

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#2882587 - 09/30/17 08:56 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: hardware]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: hardware
I used an EV-5 for years.
When it arrived I was pissed on how small it was, but it's been 100% accurate hitting the desired MIDI CC points on larger controllers ...


Iīm using the same EV5 I bought when I got my old MK80 somewhere 1989!
The EV5 works like day one here and even I toured w/ it for decades.
Itīs small, it looks cheap, itīs plastic,- but it still WORKS!

In addition I use 2 Yammi FC7 which I bought together w/ my KX88 in 1987, so they are older and still WORK too.

2 of my MOOG 1120 CV pedals and the OBX pedal I own work flawlessly,- thatīs antique compared to EV5 or FC7.

The latest I bought in 2011 are Fatar VP-25 for KURZ PC361 and they work perfect up to now.

I dunno what people do with their pedals destroying īem quickly, but I can imagine when organ is the main axe, a pot might wear out earlier (depending on pot quality) and mechanics too.

That said, I managed cracking a portion of a tooth from the cogwheel of a MOOG 1120 mechanics and these pedals are build like tanks.
So I think, bad luck is a factor too !

A.C.

P.S.:
Iīm searching a cogwheel for a MOOG 1120 pedal.
You might imagine, in germany, I have a problem finding something w/ the same count of teeth, grub scew and fitting the diameter (in inches) of an Allen Bradley 100K potīs shaft.

When someone knows a ressource for a replacement, original NOS, used or new,- please PM.

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#2882593 - 09/30/17 10:47 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Al Coda]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but do we know whether the specs for those models have been consistent throughout their run?

In the related category of Volume Pedals (ones that apply attenuation to audio signal vs. ones that augment volume via MIDI CC), I am pretty sure that impedance and other specs have changed over the years on several models without a change in model designation.
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#2882595 - 09/30/17 11:21 PM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Karl Schmeer Offline
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Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 187
Loc: State of Misery
Okay I took my 2017 Proline Expression pedal apart and checked everything w/ an ohmmeter just to be sure.


Proline Audio: Standard Model

Has Polarity Switch On Bottom and minimum adjustment on left side

Sweep Potentiometer: 10 K

Jack Connection: TRS Wiper on T or R Depending on Polarity Switch

Minimum Adjust Potentiometer: 50 K

I also took my 2010 EV-5 apart and compared the two.
Electrically they are almost identical except the Proline
has a 1K resistor in series w/ wiper of the sweep potentiometer. And the EV-5 has no polarity switch.

For Grins, I also measured the travel of all my pedals.

Proline 1.5"
Roland EV-5 1.2"
Yamaha FC-7 3.2"

Hope this Helps smirk
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#2882598 - 10/01/17 12:33 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Karl Schmeer]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I bet that was a bit of a surprise, but the differences were slight.

The travel of the Yamaha vs. the Roland is also much greater than I realized. I'm one of the "long travel" people, and actually like the EXP for my Hammond XK-1c the best of all.
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#2882635 - 10/01/17 08:26 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Mark Schmieder]
DarkyLord Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5008
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
OK I think I got this shared Google Docs thing happening after recovering my account from years ago.

Shared Pedal Summary Ver3


Let me know if I missed anyone's comments and continue to provide corrections/additions. Still missing some data so if you have it please pass it on.




Edited by Markyboard (10/01/17 09:16 AM)

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#2882637 - 10/01/17 08:33 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: Mark Schmieder]
DarkyLord Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5008
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder
Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but do we know whether the specs for those models have been consistent throughout their run?

In the related category of Volume Pedals (ones that apply attenuation to audio signal vs. ones that augment volume via MIDI CC), I am pretty sure that impedance and other specs have changed over the years on several models without a change in model designation.



You raise a good point Mark although I haven't seen anything with expression pedals in this regard. Not saying it hasn't happened, I just haven't run across it in any of my research. I did find several occurrences of volume pedals where they changed the pot value. Must be those guitarist who can never make up their mind . grin

I suggest if we do run across this we can always note it in the comments.

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#2882648 - 10/01/17 09:48 AM Re: Expression Pedal Summary [Re: DarkyLord]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 3618
I didn't know that about the Kurz pedal, but I'vebeen too busy with the sound to care much about pedals. I used to have a pedal I made myself with a keyboard that didn't originally have an input for it, which was cool to compare with organ playing. I'd say normally there's a difference between a volume and an expression pedal, but hey, we're not infants, so maybe that's not the most important.

It's also, just like with the "keyboard" discussions, questionable if that hidden glorious sound is coming to come from adding a proper volume pedal to an organ which is a clone, because normally the sound isn't going to get much of a different character, unless you want to use the pedal as some digital hurdygurdy playing device, like on the PC3 there are sounds where turning the mod wheel generates a idea reminiscent of bowing a string.

T.

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