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#2883728 - 10/07/17 03:40 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: wd8dky]
jimkost2002 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 866
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Dnsmo—

Regarding comparison with the XK3:

I went to the Sam Ash on 34th St and played the Legend Live beforeand after I went.

The XK is looser thand the Legend Live, both in action and latency. I just find it and HS in general less satisfying than the Legend or even Mojo or UHL
Granted, I havent had a chance to play the new XK 5, so I can’t speak to that, only SKs and XK3.
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#2884060 - 10/09/17 08:56 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: wd8dky]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1875
As far as I am concerned the Viscount /Key B is the one to get.

"Another" organ I tried recently had major issue with the percussion harmonics when set on slow decay. The balance wasn't quite what I was used to, and I had a heck of a time with most speakers and headphones trying to get the upper register dialed in.

The Key B does not have this problem. Plus there is a percussion volume dial. I don't have to worry about going through some damned wi fi connection.

Another great feature of the Key B is the bass response. On that "other" clone I couldn't seem to get enough bass.

At the moment I am getting reasonable results with the HX3 and various controllers. If I had the money , I would have a Key B though.

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#2884072 - 10/09/17 09:36 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: LX88]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6031
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Is KeyB currently making any clones other than the ones they are partnered with Viscount on? Has the Legend/Live/Solo been hobbled or crippled in some way compared to the original KeyB? Is it not their organ modeling tech with many of the enhancements they've been promising in the Legend all these years?
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#2884096 - 10/09/17 12:08 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: ElmerJFudd]
dazzjazz Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 1158
Loc: Sydney
No, KeyBs partnership with Viscount is the only thing now.
The Legend series is a completely brand new clone ie new hardware and software.
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1961 A100. Leslie 45 and 122. KeyB Duo Mk3. CP4. DXR10. Korg ARP Odyssey. Viscount Legend Live.

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#2884129 - 10/09/17 03:21 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: dazzjazz]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 378
have you gotten a chance to try play on the legend organs
yet ? if so , how do you like the higher trigger point as
compared to the keyb duo

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#2884130 - 10/09/17 03:38 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: jimkost2002]
Dnsmo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 114
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Dnsmo—

Regarding comparison with the XK3:

I went to the Sam Ash on 34th St and played the Legend Live beforeand after I went.

The XK is looser thand the Legend Live, both in action and latency. I just find it and HS in general less satisfying than the Legend or even Mojo or UHL
Granted, I havent had a chance to play the new XK 5, so I can’t speak to that, only SKs and XK3.
Thanks for that comparison. If I were to replace my XK system, I think the Legend would be my first choice.
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#2884134 - 10/09/17 03:47 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Dnsmo]
Aussie_Chicago Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 595
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: Dnsmo
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Dnsmo—

Regarding comparison with the XK3:

I went to the Sam Ash on 34th St and played the Legend Live beforeand after I went.

The XK is looser thand the Legend Live, both in action and latency. I just find it and HS in general less satisfying than the Legend or even Mojo or UHL
Granted, I havent had a chance to play the new XK 5, so I can’t speak to that, only SKs and XK3.
Thanks for that comparison. If I were to replace my XK system, I think the Legend would be my first choice.


If you want to try one, I have the legend live . I play at Moms Place , dearborn and erie , every friday in october 6-830 if you want to hear it in a band setting.
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#2903882 - 01/22/18 06:40 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Aussie_Chicago]
chelsea4023 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/25/14
Posts: 139
Hi Guys,
It looks like most of the members on this thread are converts, but have a look at this for NAMM 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...eater&ifg=1

Chris

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#2903886 - 01/22/18 06:53 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: chelsea4023]
cphollis Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2410
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: chelsea4023
Hi Guys,
It looks like most of the members on this thread are converts, but have a look at this for NAMM 2018.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...eater&ifg=1

Chris


Interesting. Looks like something the wife might tolerate in our living room. I'll show her the picture smile
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#2903902 - 01/22/18 07:31 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: cphollis]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 196
I agree that the Legend Live is spectacular - what a great instrument. Solid and well built. Great sound.
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#2904101 - 01/22/18 10:37 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: teashea]
Analogaddict Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 3203
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
My only problem is that when all clones are good sounding and affordable, I don’t seem to be selling the old one when I buy a new... Right now I have a Legend Live Solo, a Mojo 2-man, a HX-3 module and an SK-1... smile

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#2904136 - 01/23/18 06:23 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Analogaddict]
Marymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/18
Posts: 9
Seems like viscount legend is making a lot of converts.Heard some chatter about something new from Crusaders is there a replacement for dual keyboard Mojo

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#2904261 - 01/23/18 12:40 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Marymusic]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1875
I am glad that Elvio Previati finally saw his dream come to this fruition. I know he went through a lot to make this happen.

Saw the pix of the B-3 style cabinet with the Key B inside...whatever it is called. Doesn't Hammond Suzuki have rights to this cabinet design? Just curious.

I had a Mojo 61 earlier this year.... it didn't work out for me. I opted for an HX3 with a Hammond controller until a Legend Solo became available. I am looking forward to putting together a single manual/ dual manual option for the Solo.

I am also experimenting with " altering" the keys on my old Numa 1 to make this type less stiff and have less resistance. So far so good. If it works out I am going to transfer them to the Legend Solo. More about this if there is interest in hearing about it. The stiff keybed is my only major beef the the Solo.

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#2904336 - 01/23/18 09:30 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: LX88]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 1301
Loc: Southern Calif.
Originally Posted By: LX88
I am glad that Elvio Previati finally saw his dream come to this fruition. I know he went through a lot to make this happen.

Saw the pix of the B-3 style cabinet with the Key B inside...whatever it is called. Doesn't Hammond Suzuki have rights to this cabinet design? Just curious.

I had a Mojo 61 earlier this year.... it didn't work out for me. I opted for an HX3 with a Hammond controller until a Legend Solo became available. I am looking forward to putting together a single manual/ dual manual option for the Solo.

I am also experimenting with " altering" the keys on my old Numa 1 to make this type less stiff and have less resistance. So far so good. If it works out I am going to transfer them to the Legend Solo. More about this if there is interest in hearing about it. The stiff keybed is my only major beef the the Solo.



Does this involve swapping out the springs??

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#2904481 - 01/24/18 02:27 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: zxcvbnm098]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1875
Yes.... it would involve swapping out the older Numa springs into my newer Legend Solo.

I stretched the springs on my Numa a while back, and this made them have less resistance. They don't push back as much now. You have to be a bit careful. I just pulled them up with some needle nose plyers to take some of the "fight" out of them.

I experimented on the preset keys until I felt like I was skilled enough at it to do the main keys.I tried to pull them up in equal amounts.

Now the keys on my Numa feel much quicker and have less resistance. It's just another way to emulate the broken in feel.

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#2904656 - 01/25/18 09:58 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: LX88]
Mitch Towne Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 1013
Be careful, though. Too light is just as bad as too stiff. Just bad in a different way.

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#2904683 - 01/25/18 11:59 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Mitch Towne]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5782
Yikes.
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#2904700 - 01/25/18 12:21 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Analogaddict]
Josh Paxton Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1998
Originally Posted By: Analogaddict
My only problem is that when all clones are good sounding and affordable, I don’t seem to be selling the old one when I buy a new... Right now I have a Legend Live Solo, a Mojo 2-man, a HX-3 module and an SK-1... smile


I have NO idea what that's like. None WHATSOEVER. *Ahem* [Looks into front room, counts somewhere between five and seven clonewheels depending on your definition. Whistles innocently, wanders off.]
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#2904702 - 01/25/18 12:36 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Josh Paxton]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1875
I haven't wrecked any springs. I did this on my Numa a while back, so I'd like to transfer the older springs to the Legend Solo I just got.

The Legend Solo doesn't look like it's that hard to get into, but I am a bit nervous about getting in there.

Anyway I am loving the sound. I am using the modeled 70's organ primarily. The C/V on the Legend is nice as far as I am concerned. The percussion is REAL nice. I haven't done any of the updates.... I was kind of warned against it by the guy who sold me this.

Still can't believe that this came up used on Craigslist last week. The guy who had it is one of those guys who has everything.Apparently he sold it so he could get a new MAG.... HX3 based clone.

BTW my HX3 experience wasn't bad.... I just got tired of hooking more than one thing up. With the Solo I spend a lot of time just plugging the headphones in and practicing.

So nice to have this...

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#2904732 - 01/25/18 04:06 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: LX88]
Paul Harrison Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 384
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: LX88
The stiff keybed is my only major beef with the Solo.


I'm very happy with my Legend Solo. I'm OK with the keyboard, but a tad less stiff would be nice.

Originally Posted By: LX88
I haven't done any of the updates.... I was kind of warned against it by the guy who sold me this.


The latest update (1.3) provides a number of improvements, although there has been a mixed reaction from users to some of them, particularly the overdrive and the percussion scaling. However, Viscount have announced a new update (1.4) that will provide further improvements and address previous feedback, and will be available to users after beta testing at the NAMM show.

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#2904857 - 01/26/18 07:24 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Paul Harrison]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 196
Update 1.4 is being released now - demo at NAMM.
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Nebraska

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#2904903 - 01/26/18 09:11 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: teashea]
Marymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 01/14/18
Posts: 9
Hi Tom
What does the new version 1.4 do for the legend, is it sound changes or upgrades to make sounds better, still on the fence
Mary

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#2904911 - 01/26/18 09:49 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Marymusic]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1875
I would love to hear more about 1.4 update. What are they changing?

I might like to hear the overdrive emphasize the high frequencies a bit less. The " Steppenwolf'' approach to this was to unplug the high frequency horn from the leslie.

Still loving easy access to percussion volume on the Legend Solo. Need more bass? Push in upper manual drawbars, turn percussion volume down a bit, pull lower manual drawbars all the way.

Or use some pedal bass, also with easy access on the Legend Solo.

Leslie sim boosts percussion volume a bit on this BTW, so it's easily turned down a bit.

No beef with CV or leslie sim here. Excellent JIMMY Smith paradise setting on the 70's modeled organ

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#2904915 - 01/26/18 10:09 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: LX88]
Mitch Towne Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 1013
The percussion attack of the Legend is great...but one thing they didn't model is the percussion recharge. Once the percussion dies out, it is immediately at full strength upon next triggering. It might seem like a little thing, but when you play the real thing so much, little things like that stick out.

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#2904939 - 01/26/18 12:11 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Mitch Towne]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 4143
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: Mitch Towne
The percussion attack of the Legend is great...but one thing they didn't model is the percussion recharge. Once the percussion dies out, it is immediately at full strength upon next triggering. It might seem like a little thing, but when you play the real thing so much, little things like that stick out.


I understand pretty well what you mean, but to me itīs kind of splitting hairs.
Iīm pretty sure it all depends on to which "real deal" Hammond console comparisons were done and they simply cannot know your real deal at home.
Iīd say,- caps recharge is something which is different on all the reals deals out there and depending on ageing.
Maybe not (so much) w/ the "red cap" Mylar cap models, but w/ all the others for sure.

OTOH, when I heard B.Auger playing the Legend, I wasnīt too much impressed compared to how it sounded when he used his "Organ Planet" chop (in europe).

So,- Iīm interested in the Viscount (KeyB) Legend models, but also hope for some more improvements.
All the sound demos didnīt convince me up to now, especially not those from Thomann website.
When Iīm about buying a clone, I want it working for jazz and rock.
The advantage of a digital technology clone is to make that work in only one instrument, OD, C/V and leslie sim included.
And up to now, the best in that discipline is HX3 which unfortunately is just only a circuit board and software, an expander module or the UHL,- and it seems thereīs only the MAG organ using HX3 and doing it right w/ the haptics.

A.C.

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#2904973 - 01/26/18 02:18 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Al Coda]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 16024
Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: Mitch Towne
The percussion attack of the Legend is great...but one thing they didn't model is the percussion recharge. Once the percussion dies out, it is immediately at full strength upon next triggering. It might seem like a little thing, but when you play the real thing so much, little things like that stick out.


I understand pretty well what you mean, but to me itīs kind of splitting hairs.
Iīm pretty sure it all depends on to which "real deal" Hammond console comparisons were done and they simply cannot know your real deal at home.
Iīd say,- caps recharge is something which is different on all the reals deals out there and depending on ageing.
Maybe not (so much) w/ the "red cap" Mylar cap models, but w/ all the others for sure.


Gotta agree with Mitch here. It has nothing to do with generator caps, so Mylar or otherwise is irrelevant. The preamp has a one shot envelope that triggers percussion on all notes held down at the time. Release it and it quickly recharges but not instantaneously. Thus rapid fire but cleanly articulated lines get a slightly reduced percussion volume subsequent to the first note. If you are modelling Hammond behavior, model this too please.


Edited by mate stubb (01/26/18 02:19 PM)
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#2904974 - 01/26/18 02:19 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Mitch Towne]
Valotus Offline
Member

Registered: 04/18/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Finland
Originally Posted By: Mitch Towne
The percussion attack of the Legend is great...but one thing they didn't model is the percussion recharge. Once the percussion dies out, it is immediately at full strength upon next triggering.


Did you try ver 1.3? I noticed lack of recharge on earlier version too, but I think they did something to it in the update.

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#2904993 - 01/26/18 03:41 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: mate stubb]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 4143
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: mate stubb

Gotta agree with Mitch here. It has nothing to do with generator caps, so Mylar or otherwise is irrelevant.


Sorry Iīve mistaken generator caps w/ others.
Iīm not so deep into real Hammond service/ repairs ...

Originally Posted By: mate stubb

The preamp has a one shot envelope that triggers percussion on all notes held down at the time. Release it and it quickly recharges but not instantaneously.


Yes, but itīs a cap (Mylar or not) quickly recharging,- no ?
And it doesnīt suffer from age ?
And when it does, thatīs not different in any ageing Hammond out there ?

Originally Posted By: mate stubb

Thus rapid fire but cleanly articulated lines get a slightly reduced percussion volume subsequent to the first note. If you are modelling Hammond behavior, model this too please.


Yep, that would be desirable,- but I wonder how difficult that is when every Hammond behaves slightly different.
Whatīs the ideal then ?
Itīs possibly the same case we always have when discussing C/V, percussion decay or the action of a clone.
P.ex., why want people a perc. decay control when itīs clear how it has to sound and the manufacturer just only had to do it right ?

There are a lot of different imaginations out there how something should sound and what for and in this discussion that would be what the right level of perc.-volume drop for the 1st note of a line/phrase is.
And I tell ya, once the "issue" gets adressed, there will come up dozens of different complaints according to the result similar to "the action is too stiff or too lose" or percussion decay is not accurate on perc. "slow" or "fast" or the C/V introduces too much "warble" or not enough "purr" and so on.
And when all is perfect it doesnīt stink like oil.
It never ends and thereīs a lot of nitpick in there, isnīt it ?

A.C.

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#2905004 - 01/26/18 04:46 PM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Al Coda]
Delaware Dave Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2972
Loc: Take a guess ....
There are some things that are adjustable on a real Hammond like percussion decay, depending on how your own real Hammond is setup users typically prefer a clone to decay like their Hammond, so a percussion decay adjustment should be tweakable. Percussion soft/normal loudness is fixed (unless you make a resistor change). The question of recharge is a good one, should modeling reflect a capacitor new out of the factory or 50 years worn? Perhaps there should be a percussion recharge setting. But whether new or worn there still is a recharge time. Also, when they wear the don't fully recharge. So there may not be agreement on the correct recharge rate but full recharge instantaneously is not modelling authenticity. All the little things do add up to a sound that moves the clone further and further from the target. I believe that the Viscount also does not model loudness robbing. There is a video showing the differences between the two. Surprisingly there area lot of differences:

https://youtu.be/t3mOJfRiw1E
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#2905078 - 01/27/18 06:09 AM Re: Viscount Legend Live Love Letter [Re: Delaware Dave]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 196
I care very little (not at all) about whether a digital organ sounds precisely like any particular B3 version. The B3's are all over the place in terms of how they sound. I want my digital organs to sounds good.
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