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#2881389 - 09/25/17 05:23 AM Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does!
Fred_C Offline
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I came across this incredible young guitarist quite by accident on YouTube. There's more videos out there if you're interested.

https://youtu.be/BJKYjXe6ACE

And check this out as well:

https://youtu.be/kXsqQTY9wW4

With amazing kids like these, the instrument definitely has a future! shocked
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#2881395 - 09/25/17 06:01 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Fred_C]
whitefang Offline
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Well, if not the INSTRUMENT, those KIDS certainly have a future!

Really brightened up my morning Fred. Thanks for those! smile
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#2881411 - 09/25/17 07:14 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Thanks Fred, those kids give me a lot of hope for our future! Here's my entry courtesy of Buddy Guy:



thu
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#2881536 - 09/25/17 04:34 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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What I find most interesting abt these young players is that they oft behave, to my mind, in ways that resemble(maybe) idiot savants or Arnsberger spectrumites.
Not that I think that's really the basis of their perfs but check how the young girl is completely positioned by her handler & sits there w/ her small finger locked on the 6th string waiting for the cue to play.

There's, of course, a whole raft of these vids of phenomenal kids & we might be tempted to think this is something that results from the advancements of learning or whatever til we recall that such things go back to the time of Mozart[*] & prolly earlier.

The young human mind is one of the most malleable things we know.
Capable of learning any number of languages, including musical ones, before the age of 3.

That's not to detract from the accomplishment of any individual (although for a while when I 1st learned of Derek Trucks I wondered whether reincarnation was more than just a elemental level phemom) but we must consider that these young performers, while skilled at recreating the notes of a piece, generally lack the emotional nuance that expresses music's point.
Some get that as they advance but early on they're mostly dong rote perfs.
As we know, Derek Trucks is now one of the most expressive players, in terms of pitch nuance, in the world.


However, I think that the future of the gtr is more in the hands-----so to speak grin ---- of those who embrace & expand technology, as did Chas Christian, L Paul & J Hendrix, than those who merely try to do the past better.
----------------
[*] BTW & FWIW, wha would Mozart be called these daze ?.................."Mo'z Art" grin facepalm
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#2881940 - 09/27/17 03:27 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
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I've been pondering the future of guitar and music... I ordered a little analog synth that was on sale at a ridiculously low price and my synth buddies said was a real bargain, and I've found I can plug a guitar into it and use it as big effects pedal.

I grew up in the late 70s/early 80s when people were trying to do "futuristic" things with music. That all stopped in the early 90s, I think... well, every couple of years people revive the 80s version of futurism, but it's pretty well-dated at this point, eh?

I do remember when Blade Runner first came out, and I was reading an interview with U2, who were kind of a futuristic band at the beginning (probably still are) and Bono was talking about how much he loved the movie and the visuals of it, even though it was bleak and depressing, but he said the music - futuristic synth stuff by Vangelis, I think - was totally wrong. Why? "As technology becomes more and more advanced, people hide it and minimize it and turn away from it. That's why the visuals... everything being retro-1940s, is perfect, but people won't be listening to synths... they'd want real violins or bluegrass guitars or something to remind them of humanity." Boy, he's kind of right... my house looks a lot less futuristic than my parent's house when I was a kid, which was full of glass and chrome... I took some of that furniture out of storage, and we're decidedly modern in our tastes, (and my house now was built about a decade earlier than the one I grew up in) but design has changed. Flat TVs don't dominate a room... and the Amazon voice-activated gadgets all over the house are tiny and not noticeable. I do listen to Americana records more than I'm in the mood to hear futuristic stuff, and I'm no fan of contemporary Top 40 music or "modern rock."

Maybe the guitar does have a future... in its past?

Or maybe we'll all be playing through synth modules in the future?

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#2882018 - 09/28/17 04:20 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Maybe. Difficult to predict. And since synth modules have been used a lot not too long ago, maybe someone will find a way to take them out of the "novelty" phase that keyboard synths went through at first. But I figure that might not happen until that phase gets taken as far as everybody figures it can possibly go.

And consider too, that anything any geezer who grew up in the late '70's and early '80's thinks is "futuristic" is probably thought of by the current crop of young musicians as being as "dated" as what the geezers who, like me, grew up in the late '50's and early '60's thought of as "futuristic". wink

BTW---My house is filled with furniture that we both like and can afford, and the only "look" we went for was one that pleases OUR eye, and not one that other people THINK we should have. wink
Whitefang
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#2882058 - 09/28/17 06:50 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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A lot of the progressive rock bands in the 70s, notably Yes, ELP, Bloodrock, Kraftwerk, Triumverant, and Tangerine Dream took synthetic to great heights. In the 80s it started to be used more in the background in pop music. I think there are enough of us out there that still prefer more organic types of music, but will it always be that way? I still see a future where eventually all music will be synthetic.


Edited by Delta (09/28/17 03:12 PM)
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#2882078 - 09/28/17 07:54 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Delta]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@PJ90r - I'd love to hear which Synth you picked up? PM me, I may have some tricks you'll enjoy.
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#2882114 - 09/28/17 10:01 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Winston Psmith]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
@PJ90r - I'd love to hear which Synth you picked up? PM me, I may have some tricks you'll enjoy.


I'll tell you here... if it's hijacking the thread to anyone's annoyance we can make another one.

It's an Arturia Microbrute, which features 3-waveform VCO, Overtone Generator, Steiner-parker Filter, Step Sequencer, and Modulation Matrix... the tiny keyboard seems to be the only thing most people complain about, but I'm not a pianist of any ability and it's monophonic when using the keyboard. I believe it is polyphonic when plugging another audio source into, though...

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#2882178 - 09/28/17 02:35 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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You'd have to ask Fred if he minds or not. And since it's already been highjacked by someone blathering on about children's lack of mature interpretation of music instead of them doing so well on an instrument recently debated about it's possible waninng interest in younger generations, he might feel "why not?" But he's generally magnanimous, so he might not mind at all. Might even be curious to learn and hear more.
Whitefang
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#2882272 - 09/29/17 05:34 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
You'd have to ask Fred if he minds or not. And since it's already been highjacked by someone blathering on about children's lack of mature interpretation of music instead of them doing so well on an instrument recently debated about it's possible waninng interest in younger generations, he might feel "why not?" But he's generally magnanimous, so he might not mind at all. Might even be curious to learn and hear more.
Whitefang


I don't care. If you recall, it was I who argued for a more fluid, dynamic environment in which the discussion followed the natural ebb and flow of conversation without the restriction of remaining "on topic". This position was, for all intents and purposes, unanimously agreed upon by the members of the forum.
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#2882323 - 09/29/17 08:09 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
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+1 Brother Fred! "Well said, well written"... thu
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#2882324 - 09/29/17 08:10 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Fred_C]
d Offline
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Personally I can't see the diff between synths & gtr music.
Of course sometimes one can hear a diff but how's that diff from pedals, etc ?
There seems to be a strange prejudice among some musicians abt things that have nothing to do w/ the actual qualities of music as opposed to the means of production.
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#2882336 - 09/29/17 08:37 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah. And the only similarities are the reactions some advancements have elicited. I think(due to having read about it somewhere) that the electric guitar wasn't exactly welcome with open arms, as was the electric piano also kind of frowned upon by "purists" at it's debut. And we all recall what many thought about Moog and other keyboard synths when they were ushered in.

Personally, if I find the music pleasing and appealing to my ear I don't really care HOW it was created or produced. Except in a case of wondering "HOW did they get that cool sound?"
Whitefang
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#2882344 - 09/29/17 09:19 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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One would think that the very cats who created the future of the gtr, or at least the electric gtr, (i.e., Les Paul & Jumpin' Jimini Hendrix grin ) would've ended all that stuff.

Back to the gtr's future here're some ppl's ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch=h2OfDpD1Avg


More interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePcLhRZ-PAg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkzvGi1GEUg


& for all you non-traditional traditionalists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMQVyGOZylg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok5d8nXAngw

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#2882363 - 09/29/17 10:13 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
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As to the '5 instruments of the future', ennui ensues. By basing instruments on software I think the inventors are looking to appeal to their fellow tech nerds, but are fundamentally missing the point concerning actual musicians. With no physical interaction between the hands, lips, tongue, etc & the vibrating substance, the likelihood for real music to emerge is low. Not impossible, as organists & a small handfull of synthesists have shown, but the odds are not good. You need to touch the thing which makes the sound. I don't see much possibility for virtuosity to emerge from these software based instruments.
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#2882368 - 09/29/17 10:34 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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I loved my old analog Juno 60 for the horns, organ and strings sounds I could get out of it. The digital Kurzweil gets better Piano. I also loved the warm sounds I could get out of my Les Paul through a Fender Twin Reverb amp. I also loved the sounds I can get out of my Taylor acoustic. I don't think synths are a bad thing, but the idea of them putting guitars out of business was disproved during the 80's disco threats LOL! The clothes and hair styles came and went the same way (as did the old Rock and Roll look of the 50's and the Beatles look of the 60's LOL!). It all seems to come and go but I don't see the guitar being sidelined now or later down the line... cool
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#2882378 - 09/29/17 11:37 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
I loved my old analog Juno 60 for the horns, organ and strings sounds I could get out of it. The digital Kurzweil gets better Piano. (snip) I don't think synths are a bad thing,


I don't think synths are bad either. But every time you press middle C on the Kurzweil, at least at the same velocity layer, you get exactly the same sample, played the same way. Every time you hit C on your Taylor or Les Paul, it is a completely different sound event, & always sounds at least somewhat, if not very, different. It's that degree of sonic complexity which makes the guitar a highly expressive instrument, one able to offer up virtuosic possibilities to the advanced player. And I'm not seeing that possibility with these 5 so called instruments of the future.
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#2882399 - 09/29/17 01:36 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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+1 Scott, I read somewhere that a 5 year old can walk up to a piano and play a middle C and it will sound the same as if Horowitz played it. Won't happen that way on a guitar...same is true when I tried to play my little brother's trumpet instead of my clarinet LOL! I just don't have the lips!

I remember walking by a stage once and thought, hey that sax sounds pretty sweet but when I looked up there was no sax player? That's about the time sampling came out...

I have always admired musicians that can make their instruments sing. The feeling they can get and the sounds that I just can't get, for the lack of experience. It's like when a beginner thinks I sound good LOL! The new fake digital stuff just can't capture that feel IMHO... cool
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#2882410 - 09/29/17 02:43 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Anyway, I think the overall question was more aimed at the future of the guitar as a major component in the application of any music created in the years to come, and not necessarily the technology utilized in it's construction and method of play. And I think that as long as "traditional" electric and acoustic guitars are still manufactured, there will continue to be those that choose to play them for whatever reason or purpose. Those numbers will become lower as time goes on perhaps, but not to the point that those instruments will entirely cease to exist. And as long as there are enough buyers out there for them, I don't see makers like Gibson, Fender, Taylor, Martin and them just closing up shop and going home.
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (09/29/17 02:44 PM)
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#2882489 - 09/30/17 08:21 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
As to the '5 instruments of the future', ennui ensues. By basing instruments on software I think the inventors are looking to appeal to their fellow tech nerds, but are fundamentally missing the point concerning actual musicians. With no physical interaction between the hands, lips, tongue, etc & the vibrating substance, the likelihood for real music to emerge is low. Not impossible, as organists & a small handfull of synthesists have shown, but the odds are not good. You need to touch the thing which makes the sound. I don't see much possibility for virtuosity to emerge from these software based instruments.
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I loved my old analog Juno 60 for the horns, organ and strings sounds I could get out of it. The digital Kurzweil gets better Piano. (snip) I don't think synths are a bad thing,
[quote]Anyway, I think the overall question was more aimed at the future of the guitar as a major component in the application of any music created in the years to come, and not necessarily the technology utilized in it's construction and method of play. And I think that as long as "traditional" electric and acoustic guitars are still manufactured, there will continue to be those that choose to play them for whatever reason or purpose. Those numbers will become lower as time goes on perhaps, but not to the point that those instruments will entirely cease to exist. And as long as there are enough buyers out there for them, I don't see makers like Gibson, Fender, Taylor, Martin and them just closing up shop and going home.


OK then everyone skips the opportunity to comment on Luca S, a stunningly orig player
facepalm
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#2882494 - 09/30/17 09:09 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Guilty as charged. He is a stunningly good guitar master...
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#2882501 - 09/30/17 10:40 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Fred_C]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Originally Posted By: whitefang
You'd have to ask Fred if he minds or not. And since it's already been highjacked by someone blathering on about children's lack of mature interpretation of music instead of them doing so well on an instrument recently debated about it's possible waninng interest in younger generations, he might feel "why not?" But he's generally magnanimous, so he might not mind at all. Might even be curious to learn and hear more.
Whitefang


I don't care. If you recall, it was I who argued for a more fluid, dynamic environment in which the discussion followed the natural ebb and flow of conversation without the restriction of remaining "on topic". This position was, for all intents and purposes, unanimously agreed upon by the members of the forum.


That is the reason that this is the only guitar message board I bother with, anymore... the rest are simple "anybody have any thoughts about this pickup: yes, they're good." end of thread. And the only thing discussed is gear.

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#2882503 - 09/30/17 10:51 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Personally I can't see the diff between synths & gtr music.
Of course sometimes one can hear a diff but how's that diff from pedals, etc ?
There seems to be a strange prejudice among some musicians abt things that have nothing to do w/ the actual qualities of music as opposed to the means of production.


I'm with you, really. There's synth bands I've always loved, like Depeche Mode and The Human League and Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream...

The one thing I complain about now deals with composition. There's people who learn music on synths, not coming from piano or guitar first, and they fall into using the same few basic, intuitive chord patterns over and over again... I know there's people who do the same with guitar-based composition, and they rarely interest me, either. I was talking about that recently and somebody (a synth and laptop music fan) said "but you like Bob Dylan, so I pulled up Spotify and played some of Dylan's really catchy choruses and songs that aren't simply 3 chord progressions that go on forever, and he actually said he needed to listen to more Dylan... it was "Love Minus Zero" in particular that got him, and he'd never heard it. But honestly, a I - IV - V blues progression with a good melody and lyric can get me, so maybe I am a hypocrit?

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#2882504 - 09/30/17 11:05 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: d


OK then everyone skips the opportunity to comment on Luca S, a stunningly orig player
facepalm


He adds his own thing and some original techniques to that style, but Stanley Jordan pioneered it in the 80s and people like Kaki King have employed it a lot.


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#2882529 - 09/30/17 02:49 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, and Ken "Thumbs" Carllile and Jeff Healey did the "laptop" thing to a level of perfection, but Luca took it, and a lot of other techniques to a new level.

All in all though, none of it really translates to the future of the guitar, and guitar music reaching the level of overall widespread acceptance and desirability it once had. I mean.....

We're all here guitar players and will probably go to our graves with a deep affection and appreciation for the instrument and the music that can be made with it. And true too, there still are a lot of excellent players out there doing their thing and others coming up with something new, but there was a time when many NON players loved it all too. And if the guitar and guitar music isn't generating any NEW interest, then how MUCH of any future does it have?
Whitefang
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#2882578 - 09/30/17 07:04 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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We all go in different directions and we have different views on just about every subject. I see Brother Fred's O/P differently that you do Fang. I think what he is pointing out is about how we have a new generation of mini Django's, SRV's, Guy's, etc., coming up at such youthful ages. The future of guitar with these little mini maestros is in good shape. The torch will be passed and we will have some new guitar gods to look up to when these kids are 20 years younger than we are today! I hope we are all still around to hear these kids play!

There are two times when I feel like throwing all of my guitars on a big burn pile and torching them. 1. is when I attend a Tommy Emmanuel and friends concert LOL! and the other 2. Is when I witness these kids dusting me at the age of 6 or so!!! crazy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgkfvVxPVa0

But I have learned to live with it. My Dad always taught me that no matter how tough you think you are, there is always somebody just a little bit tougher. The same goes for guitar players IMHO. cool



Edited by Larryz (10/01/17 03:04 AM)
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#2882611 - 10/01/17 04:45 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Make no mistake. I knew full well what Fred was getting at in the OP. But my post just before yours up there was harking back to the older "guitar future" thread in which it appeared the question was about the future of the guitar as a "vital force" in the music most people will be listening to in the future. And that apparently Clapton didn't think so( it's been a while, I'll have to go back and refresh my reading of the linked article).

And really, I don't see a handful of tiny Chinese prodigies creating throngs of young people the world over filling local guitar centers to bursting in their rush to purchase guitars so they can try to be the next EVHes ot Stevie Rays. But they do an excellent job of not only playing excellently, but also in keeping the hope alive. And that hope is that someday, like with Perkins and Berry in the past, and a bit later Harrison, Richards, Eric and Jimi, someone WILL come along to cause that "run" on guitar centers and music shops the country and world over. But for now, as long as most of the world over people thrive on music created from computer files that back up vocals following corporate created formulas through autotune, that resurgence will have to wait.

I don't recall ANY "guitar hero" making a claim like, "I got my big inspiration to pick up a guitar after seeing some 9 year old boy from the Ukraine playing a balalaika on the telly." , or, "I once heard an ANDRES SEGOVIA recording at a friend's house and just KNEW I had to try and be a rock'n'roll guitar player!" wink

I'd think(and hope) that the BEST bet modern music with guitar has might just BE that "China girl" in that clip you entered. cool
Whitefang
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#2882643 - 10/01/17 09:05 AM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I was probably just confused by your "harking back" to the other thread. I don't think the cart is after the horse in this case. It's not about "throngs of young people the world over filling local guitar centers" due to that handful of "tiny Chinese prodigies" IMHO. I think this thread was/is more about those young kids growing up to be our future generation of guitar masters. There have been many who were inspired by some rock and roll player growing up, to want to be just like them. I remember my Elvis, Beatles and Beach Boys hair styles and wanting to play guitar back in my early days. Buddy Holly inspired Bob Dylan. I think it's possible that Segovia might have been inspired by someone he heard play the guitar. I'm sure he inspired others in the classical world...

I liked the kid playing and singing the blues in the Buddy Guy YT clip that I posted best. The "China Girl" clip just proves that the cart can come before the horse. Just ask Yngwie Malmsteen about her...


Edited by Larryz (10/01/17 10:57 AM)
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#2882684 - 10/01/17 02:52 PM Re: Does the guitar have a future? You're damn right it does! [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Yeah, THIS thread is about those little kids playing so good and ensuring the future of the guitar. Somewhat.

But, wasn't the other thread ABOUT the guitar being "dead" as far as modern music goes and Clapton's feeling that it's no longer a serious contender? Anyway, that's how I took the article to mean. Like I said, I'll have to go back and refresh myself on it. And some weren't sure if Eric was talking about the guitar, or just himself.
Whitefang
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