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#2880842 - 09/22/17 05:01 AM The DeepMind 12... several months later
Synthoid Offline
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After all the excitement for this synth last year and then the mixed reviews after it hit the market, I'm curious... what happened? The DM12 prices have dropped radically since its introduction.

What's the real story here? If you bought one, are you still happy with it?



Edited by Synthoid (09/22/17 05:36 AM)
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#2880847 - 09/22/17 05:22 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Synthoid]
aellison62 Offline
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I noticed the price drop as well.....
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#2880848 - 09/22/17 05:33 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Synthoid]
Synthoid Offline
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Oh wait. I was looking at the DM6.




Google search was inaccurate. Eeesh. facepalm



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#2880855 - 09/22/17 06:19 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Synthoid]
RABid Online   content
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I'm more interested in the DM12 now that I was before release. Though I am weary of the name Behringer I appreciate how deep the programming is on this unit.
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#2880858 - 09/22/17 06:29 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RABid]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Reviews are quite good. The build is good, the keyboard only fair. But the sound is good, deeply programmable, tons of presets, extensive fx section, great price.
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#2880859 - 09/22/17 06:29 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RABid]
cphollis Offline
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My experience with the DM12 has taught me that I'm a preset guy, not a programming guy.

I bought it with all intentions of deeply exploring its modulation matrix, etc. but have never found the time to do so, except for a few occasions where an afternoon went by in a flash.

Lesson learned.

Meanwhile, I continue to lean on sampled synths in my Nords when duty calls. Cheesy, I know, but also effective smile
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#2880870 - 09/22/17 07:21 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: cphollis]
Stokely Offline
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Curious about this as well, and any other synths Behringer may come out with (clonewheel! Let's do this!)

Primarily my concern would be build quality and how it holds up over time. So far both my interface (uphoria 4x4hd) and headphone amp (powerplay P1) have been fantastic purchases, but we are talking $150 between the two of them so it wasn't much of a risk. I'd be using hardware synths live so as careful as I can be, reliability still is a huge factor with any board.

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#2880931 - 09/22/17 10:32 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Stokely]
brenner13 Offline
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I haven't worked mine into the gig rig still, but have yet to find any other non-chemically induced way more effective at kicking off the stress of the work day than to don some headphones and move some sliders...instant euphoria.
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#2880932 - 09/22/17 10:33 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Stokely]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stokely
Primarily my concern would be build quality and how it holds up over time.


I'm interested in this as well. Not much response overall though.
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#2880939 - 09/22/17 10:51 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Synthoid]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Primarily my concern would be build quality and how it holds up over time.


I'm interested in this as well. Not much response overall though.



Well it has only been out a few months so I'm not surprised there aren't reports about how well it's holding up over time. It's a solidly built unit. Metal and wood chassis.

I was working with mine yesterday. I'm constantly amazed at the depth of this instrument. The sound design of the programs is absolutely top drawer. The FXs are the best in analog synthland and are a big part of the sound. If you're looking for the simpler sounds from the 70s and 80s, yeah there are synths that can provide that in a more straightforward manner. The DM 12 can as well, but that's not its forte. I will certainly be keeping this synth, though maybe in a different format. The desktop makes more sense for me or possibly the DM 6, but for now I'm sticking with the original.

Busch.

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#2880945 - 09/22/17 11:02 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: burningbusch]
Stokely Offline
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That sounds a bit like my experience with the Virus--the fx were great and really added a ton to the overall sound. Not always the case with fx in keyboards...

Likewise to another comment, that Virus with all the knobs was just instant gratification. Even live playing covers, it spurred much on-the-fly patch-tweaking in a way that menus can't. I miss that keyboard, had to sell it to fund a clonewheel (I don't need much synth in the current band).

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#2880979 - 09/22/17 12:34 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Stokely]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: Stokely
That sounds a bit like my experience with the Virus--the fx were great and really added a ton to the overall sound. Not always the case with fx in keyboards...


There are synths like Juno-106 where the chorus was essential for making the single osc synth sound big. A lot of other synths have FXs at the end of the chain to enhance the basic sound and provide variety. I really think the DM takes synth integration to a much higher level, at least higher than I've encountered in previous synths.

This video gives you a nice overview of how the FX parameters can be modulated by any of control source (not all FX parameters can be modulated, but most can). Now add to this, the fact that the FXs are of high quality, actually significantly better than many others out there. As the guy states at the end, you should view the FXs as an integral part of the synthesis of this instrument. That's to me one of the things that sets the DM apart.



Busch.

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#2881037 - 09/22/17 04:29 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: cphollis]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
My experience with the DM12 has taught me that I'm a preset guy, not a programming guy.


No offense, but I always wondered why people bought a machine (a synthesizer) waiting to be programmed, when knowing they are "preset guys".

I myself, Iīd buy a synth without any preset delivered when it is a great tool.
I remember deleting all factory presets in Sequential Circuitīs or Oberheimīs synths because I wanted to program my own ones.

When people are "preset guys", they donīt need any synth at all,- instead they need hardware- or software-preset-playback apps/machines.
At least I hope, they will be satisfied w/ the presets then.

A.C.

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#2881039 - 09/22/17 04:47 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Al Coda]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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On the other hand... the synth manufacturers know full well they have to commission quality presets and have them ready to go at shipping to sell their synths in demos and on the showroom floors. And with online orders becoming the more common acquisition - the demos are more important than ever.

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#2881043 - 09/22/17 04:58 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: ElmerJFudd]
cphollis Offline
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No offense taken whatsoever.

I mistakenly thought I'd really get into programming my own sounds, and found that I didn't have the time or patience required. Lesson learned.

Still a really nice synth, though smile
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#2881061 - 09/22/17 07:31 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: cphollis]
RichieP_MechE Offline
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I've had one for about 5 months now. I've used it on one gig so far, but haven't really touched it in a few months because my band's been on hiatus. Also, this is my first analog polysynth. At any rate, here are some thoughts, in no particular order:

The presets sound amazing, and really show of the strengths of the effects, but are largely worthless in a live band setting (at least for the type of music I play, indie rock originals and classic rock covers)

The modulation matrix is almost overwhelming. It seems like you can use just about any parameter to modulate any other parameter

I am an inexperienced synth programmer, but found the interface easy to understand and navigate after reading through the manual. Youtube tutorials from Once Upon a Synth (linked above by Busch, also I think that guy is a member of this forum) were also quite helpful.

I've had a hard time balancing volumes between my custom patches. Maybe that's just my inexperience as a synth programmer, but I wish it had a "gain" knob like on my Electros for dialing levels in.

I also wish there were some assignable knobs for some of the effects parameters. I would like to, for example, control the delay amount with a knob rather than routing it to aftertouch or the mod wheel.

Aftertouch! Old hat for many of you I'm sure, but this is my first synth with aftertouch. It raises musical expression to the next level. Neat!

Kinda would like to have more waveform choices, you can do plenty with square and triangle but a sawtooth would be nice.

49 keys is fine for most of the stuff I play, though I sometimes miss that extra octave.

The instrument feels good, controls feel solid and has a nice heft to it. HOWEVER, having the keys overhang the bottom of the chassis is a dumb design decision. I forsee broken keys if I ever drop this thing.

Overall, it's a pretty nice synth. I'm not over the moon for it, but I still like it. We'll see how I feel in another 5 months!

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#2881082 - 09/23/17 12:48 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RichieP_MechE]
J. Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: RichieP_MechE

Kinda would like to have more waveform choices, you can do plenty with square and triangle but a sawtooth would be nice


DCO1 is selectable between saw and PW/PWM. The second DCO is kind of a bonus since this started out as a Juno 106 clone which is only single OSC. Not only can you get unique complex waveforms on DCO2, but it also enables things like Hrad Sync.
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#2881117 - 09/23/17 08:35 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: J. Dan]
RichieP_MechE Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
DCO1 is selectable between saw and PW/PWM. The second DCO is kind of a bonus since this started out as a Juno 106 clone which is only single OSC. Not only can you get unique complex waveforms on DCO2, but it also enables things like Hrad Sync.

Thanks for the clarification, Dan. I'm still a noob when it comes to this stuff!

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#2903010 - 01/18/18 07:56 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RichieP_MechE]
Adan Offline
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I bought one yesterday in Guitar Center for $699. Starting talking to a sales guy about what sort of deal I could get, he called it up on his screen and said, "wait, that can't be right." But there it was on his screen in black and white, $699. I wasn't about to say "gee, you better double check that, it might be wrong." I bought it tout suite even though I was sort of leaning towards the DP6.

Anyway, if you've been thinking about these, I recommend checking into the GC deal.

Or maybe it was a mistake?
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#2903013 - 01/18/18 08:04 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Adan]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I know the price difference is massive - but I suspect the Poly Prologue might have some sonic leg up on the DM12. Unfortunately if I were to do this, it would have to be the DM12. But man... is that Prologue GASing up the room right now.
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#2903017 - 01/18/18 08:26 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Adan]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
I bought one yesterday in Guitar Center for $699. Starting talking to a sales guy about what sort of deal I could get, he called it up on his screen and said, "wait, that can't be right." But there it was on his screen in black and white, $699. I wasn't about to say "gee, you better double check that, it might be wrong." I bought it tout suite even though I was sort of leaning towards the DP6.

Anyway, if you've been thinking about these, I recommend checking into the GC deal.

Or maybe it was a mistake?


Sounds like it. That's the price of the smaller DeepMind 6. idk
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#2903018 - 01/18/18 08:28 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Adan Offline
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What sold me on the Deepmind was the dark woody timbres that are achievable, as opposed to the more aggressive quality I hear on most modern synths that aren't a Moog. The Korg PP looks great but I don't think I'll regret getting the DM, especially for $700.
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#2903022 - 01/18/18 08:38 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Al Coda]
synthizen2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: cphollis
My experience with the DM12 has taught me that I'm a preset guy, not a programming guy.


No offense, but I always wondered why people bought a machine (a synthesizer) waiting to be programmed, when knowing they are "preset guys".

I myself, Iīd buy a synth without any preset delivered when it is a great tool.
I remember deleting all factory presets in Sequential Circuitīs or Oberheimīs synths because I wanted to program my own ones.

When people are "preset guys", they donīt need any synth at all,- instead they need hardware- or software-preset-playback apps/machines.
At least I hope, they will be satisfied w/ the presets then.

A.C.


I'm not a "from scratch" type of programmer, but while I do rely on presets to "show me the way", I am always tweaking them to taste. I definitely want my synth to be FULLY PROGRAMMABLE, even if it takes menu-diving to achieve it.

This is especially the case for modern synths (not P5 or OBX etc.) where the programming is very complex, involving 4 or more layers, more than 4-part envelopes, multiple filters, mod matrices, and so on. I do expect the manufacturer to show me what the synth can do, when it's THIS complex.

Knobby synths can be fun due to the programming immediacy of one knob per function (and it should be fun!), but I much prefer to make the complex adjustments that need to be made, and then save them to memory.
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#2903064 - 01/18/18 10:04 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: synthizen2]
cphollis Offline
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I like mine very much, although after an initial burst, haven't spent enough time with it. I bought it for a band project that disintegrated a few months later. Now focusing on getting the new Nord worked into the rig, more work to do.

No complaints, deep programming possible, etc. Winner in the bang-for-buck category.
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#2903144 - 01/18/18 04:30 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: cphollis]
Donsta Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
My experience with the DM12 has taught me that I'm a preset guy, not a programming guy.

I bought it with all intentions of deeply exploring its modulation matrix, etc. but have never found the time to do so, except for a few occasions where an afternoon went by in a flash.

Lesson learned.

Meanwhile, I continue to lean on sampled synths in my Nords when duty calls. Cheesy, I know, but also effective smile


Having learned this lesson is there anything out there you would have bought instead?

Best!
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#2927285 - 05/16/18 05:45 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Donsta]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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#2927296 - 05/16/18 06:58 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Adan]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
What sold me on the Deepmind was the dark woody timbres that are achievable, as opposed to the more aggressive quality I hear on most modern synths that aren't a Moog.

I have not bought one (desktop module does not respond to PolyAT), but I agree about the dark, smooth timbre vs the more harsh/modern sounds I am hearing elsewhere. But if they were to do a Jupiter 8 clone...

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#2927302 - 05/16/18 07:34 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Marzzz]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Originally Posted By: Adan
What sold me on the Deepmind was the dark woody timbres that are achievable, as opposed to the more aggressive quality I hear on most modern synths that aren't a Moog.

I have not bought one (desktop module does not respond to PolyAT), but I agree about the dark, smooth timbre vs the more harsh/modern sounds I am hearing elsewhere. But if they were to do a Jupiter 8 clone...


Are you suggesting the DM12 key'd version DOES respond to polyAT? I don't believe that's the case. Are there actually any specification differences between the 12 and 12D?

Also note that the Juno106 didn't have PolyAT (no AT at all actually?) and only responded to velocity over MIDI. The 60 didn't have AT or MIDI. Both currently cost as much (or double, or triple) as a Deepmind 12 on the used market.
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#2927339 - 05/16/18 09:59 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Adan Offline
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I returned mine after a few weeks. While there was much I liked about it, I decided I wanted something more geared towards performance. The Korg Prologue 49 has been working out very well so far. Of course it costs more than twice as much as the discounted DM12.
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#2927347 - 05/16/18 10:53 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Adan]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Happy with the 8 Voice Aidan? Patch recall is simple and works for live?
Keyboard action better than the key’d DM12?
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#2927353 - 05/16/18 11:24 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Adan Offline
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I use the Prologue for comping and leads, so the 8 voice is quite adequate. I position it to my right so the smaller size is helpful.

You can program "live sets." Recalling a patch requires 2 button pushes but it works well enough.

The DM keybed is just ok, the Prologue keybed is about as good as it gets for synth action.

The keybed and patch recall are two big reasons why the Prologue is better for performance. Also, I find the panel more intuitive and simple for on stage tweaking. But it's a tradeoff, the DM is deep-deep-deeper.
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#2927366 - 05/16/18 12:57 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Marzzz Offline
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Registered: 11/24/00
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Marzzz

I have not bought one (desktop module does not respond to PolyAT), but I agree about the dark, smooth timbre vs the more harsh/modern sounds I am hearing elsewhere. But if they were to do a Jupiter 8 clone...
Are you suggesting the DM12 key'd version DOES respond to polyAT? I don't believe that's the case. Are there actually any specification differences between the 12 and 12D?

No, but since I have two 76-key controllers that transmit PolyAT, the last thing I need is another keyboard...so I am only interested in desktop or rack modules. I am not aware of any differences between the DM12 versions. BUT, I do know many other synth manufacturers (DSI, Waldorf, Novation, etc.) do implement PolyAT response over MIDI.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Also note that the Juno106 didn't have PolyAT (no AT at all actually?) and only responded to velocity over MIDI. The 60 didn't have AT or MIDI. Both currently cost as much (or double, or triple) as a Deepmind 12 on the used market.

Well, I don't have any interest in vintage gear, so it is not relevant to me. My one foray into owning a vintage analog synth completely cured me of any desire to own one ever again...!

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#2927368 - 05/16/18 01:05 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Marzzz]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marzzz
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Marzzz

I have not bought one (desktop module does not respond to PolyAT), but I agree about the dark, smooth timbre vs the more harsh/modern sounds I am hearing elsewhere. But if they were to do a Jupiter 8 clone...
Are you suggesting the DM12 key'd version DOES respond to polyAT? I don't believe that's the case. Are there actually any specification differences between the 12 and 12D?

No, but since I have two 76-key controllers that transmit PolyAT, the last thing I need is another keyboard...so I am only interested in desktop or rack modules. I am not aware of any differences between the DM12 versions. BUT, I do know many other synth manufacturers (DSI, Waldorf, Novation, etc.) do implement PolyAT response over MIDI.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Also note that the Juno106 didn't have PolyAT (no AT at all actually?) and only responded to velocity over MIDI. The 60 didn't have AT or MIDI. Both currently cost as much (or double, or triple) as a Deepmind 12 on the used market.

Well, I don't have any interest in vintage gear, so it is not relevant to me. My one foray into owning a vintage analog synth completely cured me of any desire to own one ever again...!


Ha! Thanks for clarifying. Makes great sense in your situation.
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#2927409 - 05/16/18 06:40 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Adan]
RichieP_MechE Offline
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Registered: 11/23/05
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Loc: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Adan
I returned mine after a few weeks. While there was much I liked about it, I decided I wanted something more geared towards performance. The Korg Prologue 49 has been working out very well so far. Of course it costs more than twice as much as the discounted DM12.
Originally Posted By: Adan
The keybed and patch recall are two big reasons why the Prologue is better for performance. Also, I find the panel more intuitive and simple for on stage tweaking. But it's a tradeoff, the DM is deep-deep-deeper.

Thanks for posting this, as you've confirmed the doubts I've been having all along.

I've had my Deepmind for about a year, but I just haven't been able to make it work like I'd hoped. It's incredibly deep and can make some amazing sounds, but as a live performer I'm just not able to connect with it. I am not an experienced synthesist, but I find it much easier to make usable (for me) sounds on my Little Phatty and Berhinger Model D (also realizing that they are mono synths and not polys).

The Prologue definitely caught my attention and your feedback definitely makes it look more attractive. The Prophet Rev2 has also piqued my interest. Looks like my Deepmind might end up in the Garage Sale sooner or later...

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#2927410 - 05/16/18 06:48 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RichieP_MechE]
bennyray Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 835
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: RichieP_MechE
Originally Posted By: Adan
I returned mine after a few weeks. While there was much I liked about it, I decided I wanted something more geared towards performance. The Korg Prologue 49 has been working out very well so far. Of course it costs more than twice as much as the discounted DM12.
Originally Posted By: Adan
The keybed and patch recall are two big reasons why the Prologue is better for performance. Also, I find the panel more intuitive and simple for on stage tweaking. But it's a tradeoff, the DM is deep-deep-deeper.

Thanks for posting this, as you've confirmed the doubts I've been having all along.

I've had my Deepmind for about a year, but I just haven't been able to make it work like I'd hoped. It's incredibly deep and can make some amazing sounds, but as a live performer I'm just not able to connect with it. I am not an experienced synthesist, but I find it much easier to make usable (for me) sounds on my Little Phatty and Berhinger Model D (also realizing that they are mono synths and not polys).

The Prologue definitely caught my attention and your feedback definitely makes it look more attractive. The Prophet Rev2 has also piqued my interest. Looks like my Deepmind might end up in the Garage Sale sooner or later...


I was looking at the Prophet Rev 2 but I have a soft spot for the OB-6
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Korg Kronos 2 88, Roland RD 2000, Korg CX-3

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#2927413 - 05/16/18 07:31 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: bennyray]
Nathanael_I Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 144
The OB-6 is a great synth. It is a personal favorite. It isn't the broadest palette, but it makes "that sound". And the control parameters are brilliantly set up. Every knob makes a difference, and it is almost impossible to make it sound bad. Very tweak able while playing live too.

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#2927446 - 05/17/18 05:29 AM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: Nathanael_I]
RABid Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12322
The INXS thread got me wondering, how close is the Deepmind filter to the Roland filter?
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This post edited for speling.

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#2927547 - 05/17/18 01:34 PM Re: The DeepMind 12... several months later [Re: RABid]
Iconoclast Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 472
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
As an OB-6 owner, I find it more of a studio queen than a performer. I've been trying to integrate it into one of my rigs but you really gotta want to use it.
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You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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