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#2880663 - 09/21/17 11:04 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: burningbusch]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5669
Loc: Lansing, MI
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
FKS, glad you're digging the Wurlies. Regarding the clavs, please take a look at the documentation. I tried to emulate the filter switches (always a challenge) and you have controls for attack and release sample volume. The attack is an acoustic sampling of the clav body. And, there's also the usual FX and compression. You might be able to dial them in better to your liking.

These should be the most detailed clavs available in hardware. They feature seven velocity layers (no loops) for each of the four pickups plus release and attack layers. Nord, for example, uses three velocity layers (looped) with neither attack nor release.



Busch.


I just installed these clavs last night.

WOW!

They sound absolutely killer! Great work, Busch!
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#2880668 - 09/21/17 11:27 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1936
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
One thing that surprised me; the organs in the Montage are actually pretty good. I wouldn't do an organ trio gig with them, but the Leslie sim is definitely better.


That's surprising to me too, since my last experience with Yamaha organ sounds was when I unexpectedly had nothing but a backlined CP4 for organ. The sounds themselves were stunningly cheesy; the Leslie sim on slow sounded just stupid; and I don't even know what the Leslie sim on fast sounded like, because I couldn't figure out how to change the speed. I tried every wheel, button, knob, slider, and pedal jack on the thing, as well as aftertouch. Then I tried some cursory menu diving. Never did figure it out. I learned afterward that while it can be done, it apparently requires deep menu diving. So from that I concluded that Yamaha had simply abandoned any pretense of providing usable organ sounds, and was effectively giving that up to the clonewheel market.

Busch, I hadn't realized that Purgatory Creek was you. So let me take the opportunity to say: frikkin' stellar job, man! I am picky as hell when it comes to Wurli sounds. My previous favorites were Broken Wurli for authenticity, and the SV1 for overall vibe and playability. Yours captures the best of both, and is my new favorite. And I look forward to further tweaking the Clavs at soundcheck later today.
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#2880670 - 09/21/17 11:46 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11672
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
The Forte has dedicated EQ knobs right there on the front panel. I love that. Every room is different and I often find myself tweaking the onboard EQ (via knobs like the Forte) of my Hammond SK2 during sound check.

I never thought I'd care about front panel EQ knobs, but I recently came to really appreciate them on my NE5D, as they helped me get the piano and EP sounds I was after, much more efficiently than any kind of menu-diving EQ would have. As I consider the possibility of swapping my Artis7 for an SP6, loss of EQ knobs would be an unfortunate tradeoff, along with the far fewer number of single-button-recall presets (might have to supplement with an app), and possibly the smaller screen (I won't fully be able to comment on that difference until I see how the interface is implemented on the SP6). One thing I haven't done, though, is used keyboard EQ to adapt to a room. But if you're using multiple keyboards, odds are you're better off doing that from your mixer/amp anyway.
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#2880676 - 09/21/17 12:22 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
I just installed these clavs last night.

WOW!

They sound absolutely killer! Great work, Busch!

If you haven't hooked a rocker pedal up to the CC2 input yet you must do so immediately, then go have fun with the Dirty Wah clav programs brother Bill included. cool

dB
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#2880679 - 09/21/17 12:41 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Dave Bryce]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5669
Loc: Lansing, MI
Yeah, I can't get the FC7 to work on CC2. I'll try again.
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#2880703 - 09/21/17 01:41 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1268
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Yeah, I can't get the FC7 to work on CC2. I'll try again.


Don't, it doesn't work.

You want EV-5 or FV500L.

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#2880719 - 09/21/17 02:23 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
rockinredeye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Shreveport, LA
Mr. Anderson - I use two Yamaha FC7 pedals on my old PC3 because I like them. Built like a tank, long throw. Instead of rewiring them (I don't solder well), I got two "stereo-to-RCA-L+R, one with male RCA, the other female RCA. Plug the pedal into one side, and instead of connecting the RCAs correctly, switch them left for right. Then you'll need another cord from the other " jack to your keyboard. Works like a charm, no soldering. I put some heat shrink tubing around the RCAs and the jacks so they don't come apart.
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#2880721 - 09/21/17 02:29 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: rockinredeye]
theshinenz Offline
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Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 34
Ive considered going back to Kurzweil a couple of times as absolutely love the sounds. Things I think Id miss most from my Montage are the setlist function and ease of finding patches. Is the forte the same as the PC3 where programs basically get scattered all over the place, no real easy way without software to categorize them? Also other than the favourites button theres no way of easily ordering a setlist other than writing the patch number down on my manual setlist and recalling it for each song? Can be a bit tedious when wanting to make quick changes. I remember the on PC3 search function but that also requires remebering the patch name.

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#2880738 - 09/21/17 03:04 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: theshinenz]
rockinredeye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Shreveport, LA
On the PC3 there is Quick Access mode (banks of 10 programs or setups each), where I can put in the night's setlist of 45 songs in about 5 minutes. On the Forte, which I do not own, it looks like there is a similar function called Favorites that has 50 banks of 10 voices or songs. I would expect it to be just as easily usable as QA on the PC3.
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#2880741 - 09/21/17 03:17 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Dave Weiser]
RudyS Online   content
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2079
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Yeah, I can't get the FC7 to work on CC2. I'll try again.


Don't, it doesn't work.

You want EV-5 or FV500L.


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.
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Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2880750 - 09/21/17 03:35 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: RudyS]
Markyboard Offline
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Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5423
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: RudyS


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.


That's 'cause nobody messes with Jack - not even Kurzweil.

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#2880755 - 09/21/17 03:41 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Markyboard]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7829
Loc: Ghost Planet
Very, very cool hearing that these libraries are working out for people. Thanks so much.

Busch.

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#2880792 - 09/21/17 07:09 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: RudyS]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1936
Originally Posted By: RudyS
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Yeah, I can't get the FC7 to work on CC2. I'll try again.


Don't, it doesn't work.

You want EV-5 or FV500L.


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.


Am I recalling correctly that Ashby Solutions made an adapter that did that very thing?
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#2880806 - 09/21/17 08:51 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
davedoerfler Online   confused
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6852
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff

Am I recalling correctly that Ashby Solutions made an adapter that did that very thing?


yes, but Bruce doesn't make them anymore. Another forum member was making them (won't mention who it is in case they are doing it any more either). If the adapter is all that is needed you can just cut the cable and reverse the wires and tape it back up, no adapter needed.
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#2880813 - 09/21/17 10:27 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: RudyS]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2825
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: RudyS
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Yeah, I can't get the FC7 to work on CC2. I'll try again.


Don't, it doesn't work.

You want EV-5 or FV500L.


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.

Jim, in my experience the FV500L transmits midi only over a limited range of its travel.

I am guessing you already have a Hammond EXP-50 that you use with your SK? That's what I purchased to replace my FV500L and it is the best long throw 10k pedal bar none.
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#2880817 - 09/21/17 11:09 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: rockinredeye]
mojkarma Offline
Member

Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 19
Originally Posted By: rockinredeye
On the PC3 there is Quick Access mode (banks of 10 programs or setups each), where I can put in the night's setlist of 45 songs in about 5 minutes. On the Forte, which I do not own, it looks like there is a similar function called Favorites that has 50 banks of 10 voices or songs. I would expect it to be just as easily usable as QA on the PC3.


Unfortunately, I would say no. The problem with the favorites on the Forte is that the banks are selected with the channel +/- buttons and that's the only possibility. So, jumping from bank 1 to 25 requires that you press the button 25 times. Hopefully, Kurzweil would introduce with an update the possibility to dial the banks somehow directly. Another problem, at least for me is/was (I do not own the Forte anymore) that the patch names for the favorites are pretty small and hard to read. It is not easy on a stage to read which favorite button leads to which program/multi.
Since I also owned a pc3k, I would say that the quick access function on the pc3k was better implemented and more usable.

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#2880821 - 09/22/17 12:15 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Markay]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5669
Loc: Lansing, MI
Originally Posted By: Markay


I am guessing you already have a Hammond EXP-50 that you use with your SK? That's what I purchased to replace my FV500L and it is the best long throw 10k pedal bar none.


I do have the Hammond. I love it. But it stays permanently with my SK2. I may have to get another. Thanks!
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#2880830 - 09/22/17 03:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Markyboard]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3701
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: RudyS


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.


That's 'cause nobody messes with Jack - not even Kurzweil.


Rudy is from the Netherlands; out there a 1/4" plug is called a jack.
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#2880833 - 09/22/17 04:04 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: davedoerfler]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5423
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff

Am I recalling correctly that Ashby Solutions made an adapter that did that very thing?


yes, but Bruce doesn't make them anymore. Another forum member was making them (won't mention who it is in case they are doing it any more either). If the adapter is all that is needed you can just cut the cable and reverse the wires and tape it back up, no adapter needed.


Thanks Dave - I do make and sell the adapters. If anyone is interested PM me.
As we've talked about before the adapter only solves the polarity issue. A keyboard that truly needs a 10K pot pedal will get some "dead throw region" from the FC7 - even with the polarity inversion. I've been using it on the PC3x and I'm sure it works on the Forte. To me the "dead" throw region isn't too bad.

As I just shared with a couple of members I'm working on a little project for the FC-7 that will allow selectable 50K (normal), 25K or 10K operation as well as reverse polarity. That should allow the FC-7 to work very well with anything out there. No one needs or wants an extra box so this will be built into the pedal along with a 1/4" female jack for a removable cord. Will keep you posted. BTW this isn't rocket science - pretty simple basic electronics. I won't be offended if someone beats me to it.



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#2880834 - 09/22/17 04:14 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: zephonic]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 5423
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: zephonic

Rudy is from the Netherlands; out there a 1/4" plug is called a jack.


That sounds jacked up. But in about another month we'll see.
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#2880948 - 09/22/17 11:09 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: zephonic]
RudyS Online   content
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2079
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: RudyS


I remember I put a new jack on my FC7 and rewired the plug (don't know exactly how anymore). It worked on the PC3.


That's 'cause nobody messes with Jack - not even Kurzweil.


Rudy is from the Netherlands; out there a 1/4" plug is called a jack.


Wait, a jack isn't called a jack in English? Why do we use an English word for this....? idk idk

Probably (movie quote) "because of the metric system"....
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Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2880951 - 09/22/17 11:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Markyboard]
RudyS Online   content
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Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2079
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Originally Posted By: Markyboard
Originally Posted By: zephonic

Rudy is from the Netherlands; out there a 1/4" plug is called a jack.


That sounds jacked up. But in about another month we'll see.
snax grin


We'll discuss this while having a beer Mark!
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Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2880973 - 09/22/17 12:25 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: RudyS]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3701
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: RudyS


Wait, a jack isn't called a jack in English? Why do we use an English word for this....? idk idk



Yeah, when I first moved here, I'd walk into a Sam Ash or Guitar Center and ask for 10 ft. jack cable. They'd look at me and go: "...err, what do you mean? Like a 1/4"?" Ah well, at least I didn't ask for a 3 meter cable.

I think out here 'jack' is more of a universal term for any connector; not specific to 1/4". At least, that's how I understand it.

jack = 1/4"
mini-jack = 3.5 mm (or 1/8", sometimes)
tulp = RCA
XLR = XLR (because some things just stay the same, you know)

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#2880981 - 09/22/17 12:40 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: zephonic]
RudyS Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 2079
Loc: Groningen, The netherlands
Originally Posted By: zephonic
Originally Posted By: RudyS


Wait, a jack isn't called a jack in English? Why do we use an English word for this....? idk idk



Yeah, when I first moved here, I'd walk into a Sam Ash or Guitar Center and ask for 10 ft. jack cable. They'd look at me and go: "...err, what do you mean? Like a 1/4"?" Ah well, at least I didn't ask for a 3 meter cable.

I think out here 'jack' is more of a universal term for any connector; not specific to 1/4". At least, that's how I understand it.

jack = 1/4"
mini-jack = 3.5 mm (or 1/8", sometimes)
tulp = RCA
XLR = XLR (because some things just stay the same, you know)



Ha! Thanks!
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Stuff: Nord Electro 3, Casio PX5s, DSI Mopho keys, Nord Lead A1, Korg N5, Korg Poly 61, QSC K10 and a Shure SM58.

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#2880994 - 09/22/17 01:21 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: RudyS]
rockinredeye Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Shreveport, LA
Didn't mean to get people jacked up about jacks.
On bhphotovideo.com and monoprice.com, plugs are male, jacks are female.

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#2881004 - 09/22/17 02:01 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: rockinredeye]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11672
Exactly. The typical usage I see is a plug is male, and the jack is the female thing you plug it into. (Maybe they should have called it a Jill?)
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#2881006 - 09/22/17 02:06 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: AnotherScott]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3701
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Ha, you learn something new every day. Thanks.
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#2881307 - 09/24/17 12:55 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: zephonic]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1936
After three gigs with the souped-up Forte, I'm digging it hard.

All I've used are a couple of Dave Weiser's pianos and Busch's Wurli and Clavs, which obviously is nowhere near everything the board is made for. But for my needs, those upgrades have turned it from a board I could use to get through a gig if I absolutely had to, into the board I was hoping it would be when I got it. It has become seriously fun to play.

So my plan to sell it and get a Grandstage is very likely scrapped. If I happen to find a Grandstage in a store and end up liking it better, then I might, but at this point I would find that highly surprising. I'm thinking the Forte with a clonewheel on top will keep me happy for a good long time.
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#2881315 - 09/24/17 01:54 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Delaware Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2832
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
One thing that surprised me; the organs in the Montage are actually pretty good. I wouldn't do an organ trio gig with them, but the Leslie sim is definitely better.


That's surprising to me too,
and me three ... I have tweaked my Leslie and it sounds better than this:

https://youtu.be/616uZSd6xmg.

I've heard no Yamaha sound anywhere near this good, so IMHO I would disagree with Jim's comparative assessment....
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#2881321 - 09/24/17 03:26 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: rockinredeye]
mate stubb Online   content
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Posts: 15811
Speaking of set list functions - geez, I envy you guys who can use set lists.

My band leader hands out paper set lists at every gig. I promptly throw mine down because he inevitably starts changing things a few songs in.

Then there is a lot of frantic "what's next" going on, because he doesn't understand the concept of having to tell us what's coming since we can't trust him to follow the list. facepalm
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