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#2880311 - 09/19/17 05:23 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: allan_evett]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Originally Posted By: allan_evett
The barbandco.com synth libraries are insanely good; if you want FM, Jupiter and Obie 80's+ goodness in Kurz format, this is your holy grail.


OMG I love you! grin
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#2880346 - 09/19/17 10:49 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5703
Loc: Lansing, MI
Okay, so I plan on making some vids this weekend. Quick first impressions since having it for about a week:

1) The sounds are overall very good and playable. I've used it on three gigs already and the pianos and EPs cut nicely through the mix.

2) I love how easy it is to edit layers / splits and create multis.

3) I love that big ol' data entry wheel. It feels great and just looks cool.

4) I enjoy the intuitive interface. I was going through the FAVORITES and wanted to store my own. "I wonder if it's like programming a car radio preset," I thought to myself. You know, just hold the preset button down to save the station to that button. And sure enough!

5) The VAST engine is capable of some great analog style sounds. I purchased the Barb and Co Vortex soundset and there are some great sounds in there. I think I'm going to go for the U-MAX 101 set next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfb4179vI9o
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#2880381 - 09/20/17 06:37 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
rockinroller Offline
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Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 204
Loc: Motown
Shame on anybody here who purchases a board primarily on the basis of some perceived "expert's" opinion--or even based on a confluence of many of those so-called "experts". The qualities of a keyboard having to do with sound are subjective--based on an individual's own ear and expectations, etc. While the physical features--weight, key bed response, layout, etc--can be argued with some degree of validity, an individual's OPINION of the sound(s)--regardless of that person's own abilities to play--should be taken like any other opinion.

Go back and read all of the (1,000's)of posts regarding various portable keyboards and their respective ability to emulate the adulated Hammond B3 and Leslie effect on this site and others. It's no surprise that a consensus has never been reached on what the "best" and most "accurate" board is in that regard. Why? Primarily because it's a matter of personal taste and expectation.

I appreciate comments and posts on this site that involve objective data and even those with personal opinions. However--at least for me--someone's opinion on the sounds produced by a particular board that I am considering is taken with a grain of salt, and will never be the driving force in and of itself for me to even make the effort to try one out.
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#2880387 - 09/20/17 06:51 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 703
As an early user of the Forte I can absolutely say that this board covers any gig, I'm curious to find out which task it couldn't step up to. smile
As Music Director at my church I played a Boston grand for the last 17 years seven masses a week, I also tuned it on a regular basis ( the AC situation & my constant playing hard). We recently put the Boston on consignment & put the Forte in a piano shell & bam... the sound is glorious (pun intended). I also use it on some blues, country & Spanish salsa gigs, it performs flawlessly, it's a workhorse.
Dave Weiser has been there every step of the way helping with patient advice which to me is unheard of in today's business market. I'm glad an artist like Jim A. would endorse the Forte, he's a working dog like the rest of us so if he's willing to put his street cred. on this that does say something of note... rock on Jim.
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#2880399 - 09/20/17 07:35 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Dave Ferris]
J Graul Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 263
Loc: Loo-uh-vull
If I was looking to replace my main board, I would definitely consider the Forte. It's been at the top of my wish list since it came out. However, $4K is $4K which is way out of my budget since getting married with a step-daughter. Still wishing though (along with the Minimoog D and ARP Odyssey FS).


Edited by J Graul (09/20/17 07:36 AM)

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#2880426 - 09/20/17 09:13 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
johnchop Offline
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Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 2222
Loc: Georgia, US
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
The VAST engine is capable of some great analog style sounds. I purchased the Barb and Co Vortex soundset and there are some great sounds in there.


No kidding. No offense to the Kurzweil sound team, but Barb's stuff really opened my eyes about the potential of the VA engine.

Also, I don't know if Paul Dillen's FM library for the PC3 series will import seamlessly into the Forte, but if you need those FM "tines", clangorous basses, punchy horns, and smooth strings, plus some other cool bits, it's really well done.

http://www.dlnsound.com/kfmpc3.htm

Of course, the 80s were ... complicated.

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#2880428 - 09/20/17 09:23 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: johnchop]
Tonysounds Offline
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Okay....as someone who has tried (and failed) to love my Kurzweil purchases, they just seem to leave me cold. Huge midi potential and easy to program (midi that is!). But the sonics just never made it for me.

But I'm open minded. Dave Weiser, as you have lots of experience with Nord, or any of you in That situation, why would I go Forte over Nordstage 3?

What I like about Nord: Generally really good sounds. Super spontaneous and easy to maneuver, a lot in a small weight.

What I don't like: it's midi implementation works, but after going from assignable splits and layers to "Choice A, B, C or D", I feel like they could up their game. The pianos work but they seem to have an "otherness" quality that keeps them from integrating with other sounds smoothly.
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#2880436 - 09/20/17 09:51 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: johnchop]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5703
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Originally Posted By: johnchop


Also, I don't know if Paul Dillen's FM library for the PC3 series will import seamlessly into the Forte, but if you need those FM "tines", clangorous basses, punchy horns, and smooth strings, plus some other cool bits, it's really well done.



Barb and Co offer one as well called Cobalt. I was just considering purchasing it.

http://www.barbandco.com/store/p46/Cobalt_Forte_Serie.html

I'm still going through the manual in my off time. Lots of power under the hood.
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#2880450 - 09/20/17 10:39 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
DanL Offline
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so... I asked a couple pages back and never got an answer- can the Forte or Forte SE do one shot samples like the FA08? Can I assign a sample to a button or does it have to be assigned to a key? If it's assigned to a key, can the samples be loaded per combi?
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#2880461 - 09/20/17 12:39 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: DanL]
mojkarma Offline
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Registered: 09/18/17
Posts: 49
If I remember well, it can't. You have to play with the release/sustain settings. You first have to assign the samples to a multisample, called keymap which in turn can be used for creating a program (patch). Then you can use a button for sending midi note data and trigger that sample.
To avoid hitting the samples unintentionally from the keybed, you can transpose the program/keymap so that it is out of the 88/76 keys range and adjust a (midi) button to still trigger the sample which is assigned to a note.

Edit:
Just to be clear, my first sentence is means that Forte (to my knowledge) can't reproduce one shot samples.


Edited by mojkarma (09/20/17 01:39 PM)

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#2880462 - 09/20/17 12:43 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: DanL]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: DanL
so... I asked a couple pages back and never got an answer- can the Forte or Forte SE do one shot samples like the FA08? Can I assign a sample to a button or does it have to be assigned to a key? If it's assigned to a key, can the samples be loaded per combi?


Greetings from Manila, where it's 3:30am!

Just exchanged some quick Facebook messages with their head of software, confirming what I thought: YES. smile

In Multi mode, each "Switch" has 2 modes: MIDI CC or Chord.
With Chord you can trigger up to 8 notes.

(See page 11-17 in the manual, you can get it here: http://kurzweil.com/product/forte/downloads/ Note it is searchable.)

The Forte has 8 assignable switch buttons plus 2 switch pedals that can all be programmed to fire notes or chords when using Multis.

One clarification: on Kurz boards, you don't assign a raw sample to be triggered by itself. A Program is what gets triggered. Programs are made up of keymaps. Keymaps are made of samples. They do have a fairly easy to use default Keymap (called Silence) and Default Program to be used for setting up one shot sample playback.

Cool side note: when editing a keymap, if you want to assign more samples to more key ranges, whenever you create a new key range, you can move the cursor to High Note or Low Note and hit the desired note while holding Enter. Conversely, when editing a keymap, if you're trying to find the sample assigned to a specific note, move the cursor to Key Range and hit the desired note while holding Enter and it will jump right to the sample you're looking for.


Edited by Dave Weiser (09/20/17 12:45 PM)

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#2880463 - 09/20/17 01:08 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: johnchop]
Analogaddict Offline
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Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 3214
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: johnchop


Also, I don't know if Paul Dillen's FM library for the PC3 series will import seamlessly into the Forte, but if you need those FM "tines", clangorous basses, punchy horns, and smooth strings, plus some other cool bits, it's really well done.


I imported the DLN collection today as well as a couple of Barb sound sets - it all seems to work flawlessly. I'll be trying it out a bit more tomorrow.

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#2880464 - 09/20/17 01:12 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Analogaddict Offline
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Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 3214
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson

I think I'm going to go for the U-MAX 101 set next.


Yes, you should. It's filled with great sounds and templates. Looking forward to your videos! smile

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#2880500 - 09/20/17 04:03 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Analogaddict]
Iconoclast Offline
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Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 526
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
In my first year with the Forte, one of the big plusses I would give it is the Kurzweil community is way more invested in their instrument than I saw out of my years in the Yamaha world.

Which is good because VAST will kick you in the nutz without some help. Help is available though...but my nutz are still tender.
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#2880504 - 09/20/17 04:18 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Tonysounds]
Josh Paxton Offline
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Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2054
Originally Posted By: rickzjamm
As an early user of the Forte I can absolutely say that this board covers any gig, I'm curious to find out which task it couldn't step up to. smile


Organ trio. wink

For me the organ engine falls squarely into the "perfectly good enough for a cover band gig, but not even in consideration for serious organ" category. But everything else, I'd agree.

Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
any of you in That situation, why would I go Forte over Nordstage 3?


I've never played the Stage 3, but having owned the Electros 1 through 3, 5, and a Stage 2, I feel qualified to chime in. I'd say it depends on what you're using it for. The Nord organ wins hands down IMO, so if that's your main concern, there you go. APs are roughly on par, but I find the Forte plays better, while Nord offers more variety. EPs are close too, though I've just got the Wurlis from Purgatory Creek installed, and they're head and shoulders above any other hardware board I've played, Nord included. Clavs are comparable; I haven't yet gotten a good staccato snap on the Forte, but I'm hoping that's a matter of the keybed and will improve when I play them from a non-weighted board. Synth tones I don't use enough to have a meaningful opinion, other than that both boards are more than sufficient for my needs. The Forte is way better with orchestral sounds, since it isn't limited to one velocity layer.

Where the Forte really comes out on top is with its flexibility for splits, layers, and multi-board setups. For starters, you can set the split points wherever you want just like you could on every non-Nord keyboard I've owned since the mid-80s. (Yes, I have harped on this point about Nord before, and will continue to do so until either they change their ways or I'm dead/too senile to care any more.) Also, you aren't limited to a certain number of any given category of sounds like you are on the Nord; you can split, say, three different synth sounds if that's what you need. And the effects are much less limited too. I don't know if Nord has fixed this with the Stage 3, but on the E5, if you had a split with, say, EP and organ, you could use an amp sim on the EP or the Leslie sim on the organ, but not both. No such limitation with the Forte.

Between the new OS and the new sounds, I've gone from "almost certainly going to sell it" to "pretty optimistic that it will work out as my go-to bottom board." I leave tonight for a short tour with the Forte in the saddle, so this will be its trial by fire.
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#2880519 - 09/20/17 05:06 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Josh Paxton]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12913
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Clavs are comparable; I haven't yet gotten a good staccato snap on the Forte

This was a pleasant surprise when I got my NE5D, the clavs were really snappy. I figured out why... although there's no reference to this in their product description or manual, they smatly use the lower sensor instead of the upper sensor to trigger note-off. (Korg had an option for low-sensor release on the King Korg, but the way they implemented it is that you get no velocity response when you enable that.)

I like Kurz and Nord both. But to balance your comment with some things the Nord is better at... mostly real-time controls. The Stage has a full knobby synth with logically spaced/sized/labeled controls dedicated to that function. If you want to put an effect on a sound, you don't have to menu-dive to do it. There's an immediacy there that few other boards have, to grab and manipulate sounds on the fly with no advance setup. The drawbars look and feel like drawbars. And so on. It's just a different paradigm from most multi-purpose boards, which have buttons and knobs/sliders whose functions change depending on what you're doing, and lots of menu diving to assemble setups or edit sounds. Other than that, I like the simplicity of loading custom samples into the Nord, and the pitch stick is cool.

It's all good, and there are always trade-offs. I've never considered Forte simply because there's no super lightweight version. But I like my Artis7, and will be weighing the pros and cons of swapping that out for a SP6. And I like my NE5D, but will consider upgrading it to a NS3 at some point.
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#2880521 - 09/20/17 05:18 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Josh Paxton]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
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FKS, glad you're digging the Wurlies. Regarding the clavs, please take a look at the documentation. I tried to emulate the filter switches (always a challenge) and you have controls for attack and release sample volume. The attack is an acoustic sampling of the clav body. And, there's also the usual FX and compression. You might be able to dial them in better to your liking.

These should be the most detailed clavs available in hardware. They feature seven velocity layers (no loops) for each of the four pickups plus release and attack layers. Nord, for example, uses three velocity layers (looped) with neither attack nor release.



Busch.

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#2880524 - 09/20/17 05:43 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: AnotherScott]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Clavs are comparable; I haven't yet gotten a good staccato snap on the Forte

This was a pleasant surprise when I got my NE5D, the clavs were really snappy. I figured out why... although there's no reference to this in their product description or manual, they smatly use the lower sensor instead of the upper sensor to trigger note-off. (Korg had an option for low-sensor release on the King Korg, but the way they implemented it is that you get no velocity response when you enable that.)


It very well could be related to the keyboard. I have sampled the Nord clavs and listened to them carefully and there's nothing in the samples that would make them snappy. Personally, I find most of the Rhodes triggered from the Electro keyboard to be far too snappy for my taste.

Busch.

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#2880528 - 09/20/17 06:29 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I have sampled the Nord clavs and listened to them carefully and there's nothing in the samples that would make them snappy.

Yup. Sonically the clav in the NE5D is average, but it plays really well because the note off happens lower in the key travel (compared to the piano note off, for example).

And the bummer is, IIRC, the low release doesn't happen over MIDI, a MIDI Note Off is always at the normal higher release point. So you can't get the same responsiveness out of the keyboard if you were, say, using it to drive your clav sound in a Forte. :-(


Edited by AnotherScott (09/20/17 06:30 PM)
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#2880539 - 09/20/17 10:10 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: AnotherScott]
mate stubb Offline
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I think I have mentioned this before, but I used to make my Stage clavs snappier by layering a note off click synthesized using the synth section.
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#2880546 - 09/20/17 11:30 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Josh Paxton]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5703
Loc: Lansing, MI
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: rickzjamm
As an early user of the Forte I can absolutely say that this board covers any gig, I'm curious to find out which task it couldn't step up to. smile


Organ trio. wink


Yeah. This is true. I'm going to play with the organ engine a bit and see what I can do but it's quite inauthentic compared to what's available today. The Leslie sim is circa 1994, imo. Maybe through a Vent it would be better. The percussion is not right either. For background parts where the organ isn't up front? It could work okay.

Today I played a Montage 8 at a rehearsal for a show. It was a 75-minute drive to the rehearsal space and I didn't feel like hauling in a rig since it was in a basement and the owner of the home we rehearsed in had the Montage already set-up. So I was lazy and just used it. Plus, to be honest, I've been lusting after a Montage since they were announced.

I noticed a few things with the Montage in my 3+ hour rehearsal. Firstly, I actually think the EPs in the Kurzweil are better, especially Busch's set (Purgatory Creek). This surprised me. Secondly, the CFX piano in Montage is more realistic and dare I say prettier sounding but I think the Kurzweil may cut better. Hard to know without actually being on stage. And lastly, even with it's big beautiful touch display, the Montage is definitely a Yamaha product. By that I mean that simple things like splits are non-intuitive. I'm sure I could figure it out. But the Kurzweil seems much more logical. I did need to transpose a tune (oh the horror!) because they decided to do it in Bm instead of Cm and it involves a Bach-inspired double-handed harpsichord part that I'm not about to re-learn in Bm a day before the gig. And it took me a bit to figure out how to do that on the Montage. It involves holding the SHIFT button. I like that you can just press a single button on the Forte to transpose or to octave shift.

One thing that surprised me; the organs in the Montage are actually pretty good. I wouldn't do an organ trio gig with them, but the Leslie sim is definitely better. Yamaha has never really been known for their authentic tonewheel sounds, so this was unexpected. Like the Kurzweil, they don't replace a dedicated clonewheel, but for background parts they work just fine.

So the Kurzweil has drastically cut my GAS for the Montage, even though I'd still like to have one eventually (I'm a sucker for FM synthesis). But now I'm thinking of a Montage 6 instead of a 7. Definitely not an 8. That thing is HUGE!

I think overall the Forte is a far better performance keyboard thanks to the intuitive interface, the lighter footprint, the quality of the bread and butter sounds, and the ease of use.
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#2880547 - 09/20/17 11:49 PM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Jim, people like you ( And Mr Ferris and others, I am too sleepy to recall sleep )
do us here at KC an authentic service. Only with a serious player: when I match the descriptors with the player, can I walk away feeling I learned something.
I too have had some GAS for Montage ( not any Nord though- frankly, is it me confused , but I do not get the excitement over the $4400+ Nord is it a "2"? Hardly a single board ax for left hand bass )
I keep playing it, but have yet to get really excited by it.
precisely as you have said, "it's a Yamaha", referring to the weird architecture... so I have yet to even begin to match a left hand bass with an EP or AP sound.
While we are on the subject that has bobbed its head up here and there in this thread: IS the Montage a good choice if I want to have splits and multi layers... and to control those sounds with volume sliders??

Is the Forte better for the above functionality?

As far as the lineage of Kurz... starting with the pc 88, then came the pcx I guess that was its name, then the Forte.
Can anyone compare
action
and sound of the pianos of all three eras of Kurz, beginning at the mid point of pc 88 ( I also owned and sold a K 2000 )
Pcx
and Forte

And if it was already answered ( I am exhausted and beat up, in general - so excuse me if I am redundant ) IS there a killer Mono
ac piano in Forte? The PC88 had one, as I mentioned,

Thank you for bringing this almost forgotten keyboard model up.

Oh one last thing maybe for Mr Weiser
Is there a place to audition a Forte in S Cal. Preferably closer to San Diego or Irvine, but I would travel North of that if necessary.
Peace, Out


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/20/17 11:51 PM)
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#2880558 - 09/21/17 04:06 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Jim, people like you ( And Mr Ferris and others, I am too sleepy to recall sleep )
do us here at KC an authentic service. Only with a serious player: when I match the descriptors with the player, can I walk away feeling I learned something.
I too have had some GAS for Montage ( not any Nord though- frankly, is it me confused , but I do not get the excitement over the $4400+ Nord is it a "2"? Hardly a single board ax for left hand bass )
I keep playing it, but have yet to get really excited by it.
precisely as you have said, "it's a Yamaha", referring to the weird architecture... so I have yet to even begin to match a left hand bass with an EP or AP sound.
While we are on the subject that has bobbed its head up here and there in this thread: IS the Montage a good choice if I want to have splits and multi layers... and to control those sounds with volume sliders??

Is the Forte better for the above functionality?

As far as the lineage of Kurz... starting with the pc 88, then came the pcx I guess that was its name, then the Forte.
Can anyone compare
action
and sound of the pianos of all three eras of Kurz, beginning at the mid point of pc 88 ( I also owned and sold a K 2000 )
Pcx
and Forte

And if it was already answered ( I am exhausted and beat up, in general - so excuse me if I am redundant ) IS there a killer Mono
ac piano in Forte? The PC88 had one, as I mentioned,

Thank you for bringing this almost forgotten keyboard model up.

Oh one last thing maybe for Mr Weiser
Is there a place to audition a Forte in S Cal. Preferably closer to San Diego or Irvine, but I would travel North of that if necessary.
Peace, Out


The Forte pianos sum to mono very, very nicely. I'll eat a bug if you don't like them in mono. smile I've used them on a bunch of gigs, everyone - sound guy, audience and myself, were all pleased.

Forte kills when it comes to splits/layers - making them, and making them sound good. By default the first 4 sliders will control volumes of the first 4 zones in a Multi.

I have put the word out on the street to help you find a unit in SoCal to audition. LA area looks more likely than San Diego. If I weren't on a gig I'd have half mind to come out myself with one just to have an excuse to visit San Diego (and its amazing restaurants).

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#2880560 - 09/21/17 04:09 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
I'm going to play with the organ engine a bit and see what I can do but it's quite inauthentic compared to what's available today.


Agreed. I'm not crazy about the factory KB3 presets. I *believe* they were created early in development when the hardware and software were not playing nicely with one another... and then those presets never got updated/fixed.

It's precisely why I made the KB3 presets in my custom set. You'll get better results with those, they've been well received by some tough critics. I don't think anyone will be dropping their dedicated clone for them, but they should be on the higher end of what you can get from an all-in-one bottom board.

Note to all: my custom KB3 programs and gig-piano presets (for Forte) are available free of charge for anyone who's interested.


Edited by Dave Weiser (09/21/17 09:52 AM)

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#2880573 - 09/21/17 05:42 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
Delaware Dave Offline
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I'm not sure about the Forte but in the PC3 the percussion is routed through the C/V, which might be what you are also hearing in the Forte, I don't think that was ever fixed. Also, the C/V is lousy, don't think that was ever fixed either, although it could have been. C1 is the max C/V that is even acceptable.
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#2880596 - 09/21/17 07:01 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12913
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
The percussion is not right either.

Yes, and also the key click (at least in the earlier non-Forte Kurz models I've played). IIRC, you can change the pitch of the click, but the sound itself just isn't authentic.

Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Secondly, the CFX piano in Montage is more realistic and dare I say prettier sounding but I think the Kurzweil may cut better.

I would be somewhat surprised if you couldn't use some EQ to get a Montage piano to cut just as well. But... could be.

Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
One thing that surprised me; the organs in the Montage are actually pretty good. I wouldn't do an organ trio gig with them, but the Leslie sim is definitely better. Yamaha has never really been known for their authentic tonewheel sounds, so this was unexpected.

When you say the Leslie sim is better, you mean better than the Forte, right? As an aside, I really liked an organ sound in the old Yamaha S30/S80, and even looking at the edit parameters side by side, I could never get the later Motif/MOX XS-XF series to sound as good. IIRC, it was mostly the tube overdrive effect that the older series did much better.

Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
So the Kurzweil has drastically cut my GAS for the Montage, even though I'd still like to have one eventually (I'm a sucker for FM synthesis).

or you can look at the Kronos for the FM, and a pretty good CX3 organ engine too.
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#2880599 - 09/21/17 07:10 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: AnotherScott]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 703
Yup, for the purists the KB3 organ wouldn't fare well in a trio but in the cover band world, church (and pit) it's great!!!! Actually the pipes are pretty damm close to the real thing on Sunday morning services. I also use a NE5 as a second tier when in the studio or big shows.
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#2880600 - 09/21/17 07:11 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Dave Weiser]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12913
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Agreed. I'm not crazy about the factory KB3 presets. I *believe* they were created early in development when the hardware and software were not playing nicely with one another... and then those presets never got updated/fixed.

It's precisely why I made the KB3 presets in my custom set. You'll get better results with those, they've been well received by some tough critics.

I'll have to find a way to check them out some time.

Have you ever seen this one? Sounds pretty impressive. I bought it, but wasn't able to get it to work at the time (either on SP4-7 or Artis7), I've been meaning to get back to that at some point...

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#2880622 - 09/21/17 08:23 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: Jim Alfredson]
allan_evett Offline
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Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 3839
Loc: Westville, IN
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
Originally Posted By: johnchop


Also, I don't know if Paul Dillen's FM library for the PC3 series will import seamlessly into the Forte, but if you need those FM "tines", clangorous basses, punchy horns, and smooth strings, plus some other cool bits, it's really well done.



Barb and Co offer one as well called Cobalt. I was just considering purchasing it.

http://www.barbandco.com/store/p46/Cobalt_Forte_Serie.html

I'm still going through the manual in my off time. Lots of power under the hood.


I used Cobalt with my Forte 7; it's quite good..
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#2880661 - 09/21/17 11:03 AM Re: Kurzweil Forte [Re: AnotherScott]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 5703
Loc: Lansing, MI
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I would be somewhat surprised if you couldn't use some EQ to get a Montage piano to cut just as well. But... could be.


Oh, I'm sure. But in light of Yamaha's notoriously confusing UI, that might be easier said than done. The Forte has dedicated EQ knobs right there on the front panel. I love that. Every room is different and I often find myself tweaking the onboard EQ (via knobs like the Forte) of my Hammond SK2 during sound check.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
When you say the Leslie sim is better, you mean better than the Forte, right?


Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear. The Montage isn't up to the level of a good clonewheel either, but it's better than I thought it would be.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
or you can look at the Kronos for the FM, and a pretty good CX3 organ engine too.


The Kronos is cool but I am not impressed with the build quality to be honest. But it's a nice sounding board for sure. I have lots of FM including a DX7, SY77, SY99, and FS1r. I'm just excited that the Montage is essentially an SY99 on steroids.
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