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#2878617 - 09/12/17 10:00 AM Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?"
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2887
“My belief in music is it’s all good. It’s all good. Even stuff that doesn’t appear to be so, it’s all good. I don’t know. Maybe the guitar is over.”

Eric Clapton: "Maybe The Guitar Is Over?"

Related to those articles about guitar industry sales being down 33% (I can't believe it's not more, for a lot of reasons).

I don't think the end of guitar music is a year away, or a decade away... but I don't expect its supremacy to return.

My dad was a saxophonist. He took Dixieland Jazz and R&B with him from New Orleans to a boarding school in Ohio for high school, then college and it was going so well he stayed for quite a while just doing that...

There were sax breaks in hit songs in my childhood... it was still a lead instrument.

Now... not a trace of it on modern radio.

I gig a lot playing 60s, 70s and 80s pop music... that's insane if you think about the equivalent in the past. In the 50s and 60s did you guys go out to hear music from the 1900s, 1910s, 1920s as teens or twenty-somethings? I know some of you were digging into Robert Johnson, etc., and so was I as a kid, but was that the focus of commercial radio stations or dance nights at clubs?

I won't complain... I'm a guitarist, I like guitar-centered music and synths just aren't fun to me, really...

but it's strange that culture has frozen in place essentially for such a long period. I keep an ear tuned to hip hop and electronic music, and honestly, they've been in a holding pattern for a couple of decades, too. But, as a songwriter I admire said once, "Originality is not a musical concern." Meaning, music is to be enjoyed, not for the audience to puzzle over or examine to death... if it sounds and feels good and has an emotional resonance, it is good on musical terms. Originality is a political and intellectual and judgmental cultural concern, but it has nothing to do with the pleasure of the average listener.

It's just a strange thing to think about...

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#2878629 - 09/12/17 10:56 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
Guitar sales declining 33% is probably due to the rise in prices on quality guitars along with the rise in the number of cheaper clones, imports, etc. The market is flooded and there are more people losing interest in learning guitar and piano than there was back in the day...I don't think the guitar is dying, I think there are just too many guitars for the guitar buying public out there.

Eric saying his kids grew up on his classic rock as that's all that they heard at his house, and it's why they like his music. May have a lot to do with why kids (i.e. 40 year olds) like our classic rock and country rock better than their own music. My kids and my in-law kids (and now even my grand kids) all like the music of the 50's, 60's, 70's...I think the music was just better back then for a lot of youngsters. My kids were free to go in any direction and did for awhile with Guns and Roses, ACDC, Nine Inch Nails, etc. Then they all came back to the music we both love these days. So in the 2,017's we are listening to 50's, 60's, 70's, etc...for me, I still go back and enjoy playing music from the 30's and 40's too...

It was funny when the Forrest Gump movie came out and my son said: "hey dad, there's a cool new song in the movie somethings happening here" and I said "what it is ain't exactly clear" and started playing it for him on the guitar. He thought that was pretty cool. I felt like I was in the way back machine in '94 going back to '67!

Anyway, my guitars may be harder to sell these days, but their music will still be enjoyed for as long as I can play them... cool



Edited by Larryz (09/12/17 10:57 AM)
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#2878638 - 09/12/17 11:18 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
JuJu Kwan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 205
Loc: Shenzhen, China
Stubbornness is a big part of the reason Fender and Gibson are down so far. They keeping wanting to sell guitars in the United States. 60% of the worlds population lives in Asia, 37% in China and India alone. It is so hard to get a Fender in China that I could name my price for one my MIMs and they are lefthanded.
Fender and Gibson can't get out of 60s, 70s and 80s. "The Times They Are A-Changing".


Edited by JuJu Kwan (09/12/17 11:28 AM)
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#2878667 - 09/12/17 02:07 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: JuJu Kwan]
desertbluesman Offline
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Everything comes in circles, 10 years from now who knows what will be in vogue, 20 years from now is even less predictable, and on and on. I will play my guitars until I can't any more. I play for my own amusement, I don't give a rip about what the "in vogue crowd" thinks of it. I will probably never play in public again, so I just go on every day playing for an hour or more enjoying myself.
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#2878682 - 09/12/17 02:54 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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There's many ways to look at all this.

When Decca records was approached by Brian Epstein looking to sign The Beatles, Decca told him "Guitar bands are on the way out." Turned out not to be true.

The fear once was that electronic keyboard synthesizers would replace and bring about the end of trained musicians in symphony orchestras. The musicians and orchestras remain, and some composers found ways of combining the two elements.

And even with the advent of the electric Rhodes piano and other electronic keyboard instruments, the basic piano still remains and people are still learning how to play it.

Now, the guitar might not now, and possibly for quite some time be the MAIN instrument in modern music, but as long as there are genres that people still listen to and perform that rely heavily on it, I don't see the total extinction of it as a musical choice. After all, there are still musicians that play violin, and search out 200 year old Stradivarius instruments, right?

@LARRY: Cool story about "For What It's Worth"! grin I can imagine the kid's face having a similar expression as my grand nephews had when me and their grandpa pulled out old vinyl and CD reissues of songs from their "Guitar Hero" video game that they thought were "made up" especially for the game! wink
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#2878762 - 09/12/17 07:59 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
@ JuJu, can't people over there buy Gibsons and Fenders on-line on sites like Ebay? Gibson did drop their prices a little on my new Les Paul. What would have cost $3,000 dropped below $2,000 and I got it for $1,600. I could not see paying $3,000. cool

@ DBM, +1 I'm not playing out much anymore. I'm getting forgetful on chords and lyrics so I'm giving up paying gigs. I will still play for free at parties and open mic's now and then. For the most part I too just like to stay home and play for my own enjoyment now. cool

@ Fang, Yeah my mother had to teach me that the song Till There Was You was not a Beatles invention LOL! cool
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#2878779 - 09/12/17 10:46 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 205
Loc: Shenzhen, China
Ebay just returned to the Chinese market this year, I imagine it's up to the individual seller. I don't know about reverb. Alibaba is the big online seller here and they sell copies. Tom Lee Music has several stores in Hong Kong and carry several major brands, including Fender.
If you go to Fenders website and read their shipping policy you will find they only ship within the US. Retail outlets, I believe, follow that policy.

By 2020, according to Boeing, China's middle class will be larger than the US population. I don't understand why there isn't more effort being made to reach this growing market. There are a lot of really good young guitar players in China.

Fenders new CEO has never worked in the music business. He worked for Nike, Disney, and Quicksilver and was fired by Quicksilver. His biggest attempt to improve sales has been an online music course for $19.99 a month.
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#2878780 - 09/12/17 11:06 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
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Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Originally Posted By: p90jr
“My belief in music is it’s all good. It’s all good. Even stuff that doesn’t appear to be so, it’s all good. I don’t know. Maybe the guitar is over.”

Eric Clapton: "Maybe The Guitar Is Over?"



Quick- someone slip Eric a Miku!
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#2878792 - 09/13/17 03:02 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: p90jr]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I think the writer made some qualifications on Eric`s comment that I agree with. The market has become divided between small-scale boutique builders that fewer people may be aware of, let alone buy-and the big names, who are the `popcorn movie` segment-they want as many guitars in as many hands as possible, and that is their only mission. I think that divide has shown up on this forum more than once-the people who will buy a cheapo and fix it up until it`s a playworthy instrument, and those who will go the extra mile to get an instrument they never have to worry about.
I do agree that guitar based music has been done-and in some cases overdone-in just about every possible incarnation. The future of that music may be murky. But there is a caveat to that as well-that`s assuming that guitars stay as they are now. Fender and Gibson have been riding on the same basic designs for decades. Attempts to slap technological gadgets on the same designs-take a bow robot guitar-have pissed off traditionalists and mostly confused newcomers.
There`s also the usual velvet rope with a steel core attitude of the industry. There`s rock and roll, and there`s dance music. They may as well have separate stores. I`ve never agreed with that and I still don`t. Actually, a friend just sent me a dance mix to add some guitar. Instead of stupid marketing categories, more cross-pollination would help.
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#2878796 - 09/13/17 04:11 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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As what I posted once in a thread some years bak and is still true;

I'm hearing a LOT of acoustic guitar as background music in television commercials. Some of it mighty damned good!

And I don't foresee country music artists drawlin' to an accompaniment of Electronica anytime soon either. So I'm guessing the "gloom and doom" predictions of the guitar's demise in music is premature.
Whitefang
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#2878826 - 09/13/17 07:31 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
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Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Originally Posted By: whitefang
And I don't foresee country music artists drawlin' to an accompaniment of Electronica anytime soon either. So I'm guessing the "gloom and doom" predictions of the guitar's demise in music is premature.
Whitefang

*ahem*


See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22TmfhYXpuk&sns=em

http://people.com/country/cmt-2015-lady-antebellum-and-zedd-mix-edm-and-country/


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (09/13/17 07:54 AM)
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#2878833 - 09/13/17 07:48 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
@ JuJu, Thanks for that info on Ebay in China. If you can name your price for a MIM left handed Strat, it tells me there is a ton of demand for used MIA Fender and Gibson guitars. Along with many good middle class guitar players ready to purchase the equipment. It gives me hope that I can sell off my used guitars as I think the market is so saturated here in the US, that it is not only causing new guitars to decline in sales by 33%, the oversupply affects the used market in the US as well. cool

+1 Skip, on your comment "Attempts to slap technological gadgets on the same designs-take a bow robot guitar-have pissed off traditionalists and mostly confused newcomers." Gibson and Fender Strats and LP's have attempted to do just that. I had a choice between two LP's with 57 humbuckers and almost ordered the gold top one with the robot tuners. I changed my mind at the last minute and went with the model with the standard tuners as I like to do my own tuning and don't use altered tunings. The tuners on the LP Classic I ordered are not your basic tuners as they are Grover locking tuners. I have locking tuners on three of my Strats and really like them. So I was very happy with skipping those robotics when I changed strings for the 1st time on the LP, and the guitar stays in tune with very little adjustment needed each time I take it out of the case. cool

+1 Fang, on your comment "And I don't foresee country music artists drawlin' to an accompaniment of Electronica anytime soon either." LOL! crazy
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#2878849 - 09/13/17 08:58 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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The generation which emerged in the 1950s & 1960s invented a new genre of music, rock & roll, & they invented a new instrument to play that music on. That was 50+ years ago. The generations since then have basically just endlessly recycled those innovations. It's OK if the great era of the electric guitar is over, it's time for something new. Meanwhile the electric guitar assumes its rightful place alongside other respectable chamber music instruments as a means of producing fully realized musical visions. Let something new be the vehicle of youthful rebellion.
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#2878864 - 09/13/17 09:42 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Fred_C Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
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Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
[quote=p90jr]“My belief in music is it’s all good. It’s all good. Even stuff that doesn’t appear to be so, it’s all good. I don’t know. Maybe the guitar is over.”



Sorry Eric, but I don't agree. It is certainly NOT "all good".
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#2878865 - 09/13/17 09:48 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: desertbluesman]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Everything comes in circles, 10 years from now who knows what will be in vogue, 20 years from now is even less predictable, and on and on. I will play my guitars until I can't any more. I play for my own amusement, I don't give a rip about what the "in vogue crowd" thinks of it. I will probably never play in public again, so I just go on every day playing for an hour or more enjoying myself.


I agree with DBM and Bro. Larry. I have been playing and studying the guitar since 1964 and will continue to play until the sad day arrives when I can no longer do so. The guitar is my instrument and I don't care whether it's "popular" or " en vogue". (pardon the somewhat pretentious French spelling)
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#2878877 - 09/13/17 10:17 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Fred_C]
Sharkman Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 601
In the early Sixties, Decca told the Beatles that guitar bands were on the way out. In the mid Seventies, Steve Miller said in an interview that synthesizers were the new big thing, because everything you could do with a guitar has been done. Some young guitarist named Edward Van Halen probably would have disagreed at that time. In 1979, my girlfriend at that time told me that rock and roll was dead, and that disco would be around forever.

You'll forgive me if I fail to join the "rock is dead" and "guitars are on the way out" bandwagons. Fads and flavors of the month come and go all the time, and will continue to come and go. But good music has a way of sticking around.
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#2878881 - 09/13/17 10:19 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
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@ Brother Fred, twothumbs

@ Danny A, Without looking at the picture of your junk country version of Oh Lonesome Me video, please compare it for a minute or less to this cover by Loggins and Messina. See if there is a noticeable difference in the quality of the two and hopefully you'll notice why I think that guitars being necessary to recreate the rock and roll and the county genre as Scott described, need to definitely be reserved in the chamber of musical instruments:



cool cool





Edited by Larryz (09/13/17 10:37 AM)
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#2878884 - 09/13/17 10:44 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Sharkman]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Side note, but it bears repeating: The market is tracking sales of new Guitars, and not surprisingly, overall sales are down, due to many of the factors mentioned in this thread.

However, no one is tracking sales of used gear, AFAIK? I've bought at least 4 Guitars in the past few years, one in the past few months; none of them were new. The last new Guitar I bought was over 5 years ago.

Maybe I'm part of the problem: Most of my gear money isn't going directly to Gibson, or Fender, or Marshall, or any of the big names. I rarely buy from GC, unless they have something used at a price I can't afford to pass up, like that $240 Epi LP Standard.

I don't doubt that the Guitar, as the primary Instrument in a group, might pass into the background, but I'm not despairing of its future. An Acoustic Guitar is an orchestra-in-a-box, as a greater talent once put it, though I can't remember who? No power supply needed, no updates, system crashes, and you can buy a perfectly good Guitar for much less than a bloody smartphone. (Oh yeah, no pesky contracts, either, unless you've made a deal with the Devil to learn to play the Blues, in which case, GFL.)

I've seen Disco in the 70's, Synth Pop in the 80's and the recent wave of EDM, all threatening in their time to dislodge the Guitar from its perch, but Disco is dead, the surviving Synth Pop bands are now Nostalgia acts, and I still see Guitar bands forming. Maybe the Guitar is like the Shark, or the Crocodile: Primitive, a bit of a throwback, even, but a survivor, nonetheless.
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#2878907 - 09/13/17 11:37 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Not really a fan of country, personally- though I do have some in the collection- and I didn't post those vids as examples of stuff I enjoy. I just wanted to point out that people have been fusing C&W with electronica for a few years now.

I don't expect it to rocket up the charts, but I DO expect some artists to keep trying their hands at it.
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#2878922 - 09/13/17 01:02 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Larryz Offline
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OH yeah Danny...You made it clear why I cannot stand new country. I was hoping that everyone listening to the two versions would understand why electronica just doesn't work for country. The tune is actually a cross over much like the Everly Brothers being classed in the country western genre as opposed to R&R. But, I think the two videos show why the guitar will never die in both genres. The original tune was recorded by Don Gibson in 1957, produced by Chet Atkins with Elvis' Jordanaires singing the backing vocals. Everyone from Ray Charles , Johhny Cash, Kentucky Head Hunters, Johnny Rivers, Jerry Lee Lewis, Sammy Davis Jr., and the list goes on has recorded this song and they always stay pretty true to the original. I love the Loggins and Messina recording of this tune and I hope for others that call up these two videos, that they will see how important the guitar is (along with that great piano and violin, steel guitar, bass and drums, to my kind of music)...thanks (big time) for posting that video that I'm using for comparison! cool


Edited by Larryz (09/13/17 02:23 PM)
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#2878931 - 09/13/17 02:13 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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I just watched a band on Tavis Smiley from Nashville with a chick singer, a chick drummer, and 3 guys, one with a guitar, one with a bass and one with keys all very young black folks. They were smokin as was the guitar solo. Kinda blues based rock and soul. So the guitar is still strong as far as many players are concerned. Just a lot less guitar wanking with shorter solo's. I rarely do more than solo 2 times through a progression & do that several times in a song.
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#2878938 - 09/13/17 02:46 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
The generation which emerged in the 1950s & 1960s invented a new genre of music, rock & roll, & they invented a new instrument to play that music on.


???

WHAT "new instrument"?

Surely,you can't mean the 700+ year old GUITAR, can you?

Or maybe the "electric" guitar, which was developed several years before CHARLIE CHRISTIAN took to playing one by the mid 1930's?

Hell. That generation you refer to didn't even "invent" rock'n'roll. But they did tightly embrace it and help make it a force in the realm of music. Gave it legitimacy, if you will. And I'm curious to the point of impatience to see if there ever WILL be any "youthful rebellion". As long as the electronics market and the current music industry caters to their possessive whims and feeds their apathetic attitude towards creating art, I'm doubtful if any "rebellion" will ever come to pass.

People usually rebel against anything that represses or oppresses their desires and needs, and it's been several decades now since authority symbols like parents and society in general have willingly denied them of anything they desired.
Whitefang
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#2879010 - 09/13/17 08:32 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
The generation which emerged in the 1950s & 1960s invented a new genre of music, rock & roll, & they invented a new instrument to play that music on.


???

WHAT "new instrument"?
Surely,you can't mean the 700+ year old GUITAR, can you?
Or maybe the "electric" guitar, which was developed several years before CHARLIE CHRISTIAN took to playing one by the mid 1930's?


Don't be pedantic. You know what I mean. Telecaster, introduced in 1951. Les Paul, introduced in 1952. Stratocaster, introduced in 1954. The Big 3. There would be no rock & roll without solid body electric guitars.

Quote:
Hell. That generation you refer to didn't even "invent" rock'n'roll.


Technically, of course there were antecedents, going back to the late 40s, but it is generally considered that the first rock & roll record is "Rocket 88" recorded in 1951.

Quote:
But they did tightly embrace it and help make it a force in the realm of music. Gave it legitimacy, if you will. And I'm curious to the point of impatience to see if there ever WILL be any "youthful rebellion". As long as the electronics market and the current music industry caters to their possessive whims and feeds their apathetic attitude towards creating art, I'm doubtful if any "rebellion" will ever come to pass.


They're too complacent. Every generation up until the one following the 50's/60's created their own unique popular music. After then it's just been ongoing regurgitation of what has already been done to death.

Quote:
People usually rebel against anything that represses or oppresses their desires and needs, and it's been several decades now since authority symbols like parents and society in general have willingly denied them of anything they desired.
Whitefang


Hoping the current political situation finally lights a fire in somebody's belly.
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#2879078 - 09/14/17 05:12 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9866
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
"No rock&roll without solid body electric guitars" ?

HMmmm....

Somebody forgot to tell Carl Perkins, Chuck Berry and Scotty Moore!

Maybe "Rocket 88" might be the first rock&roll record of NOTE, but still many others feel either Roy Brown's "Good Rockin' Tonight" from '47, or Jimmy Preston's "Rock The Joint" from '49 are more fitting. But it really makes no difference because....

One thing is crystal clear.....

That despite the countless solos handled by the saxophone over the years, there'd BE no rock&roll without the electric guitar, regardless hollow, semi-hollow or solid body.

And I feel the guitar will survive,regardless of whether or not "modern" music puts it to use, either acoustic or electric, because it, and other stringed instruments, are more capable of being handled "personally". Meaning, it would seem difficult to kick back and relax cradling a keyboard synth or a table holding two turntables. wink
Whitefang
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#2879098 - 09/14/17 06:52 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
Good Rocking Tonight was Elvis' 2nd recording 1954 and went Gold...he re-worked and arranged old jump blues tunes from the late 40's. It was on the R&B charts by Roy Brown and it predates Rocket 88. However check out this R&B jump blues hit from 1945 The Honey Dripper by Joe Liggins which predates both and has that cool sax too:




cool
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#2879117 - 09/14/17 07:32 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Posts: 8009
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Whenever this topic comes up, I like to refer people to my buddy Morgan from my college days-even though he went to a more upscale one than myself-and his excellent web page on the subject. Unfortunately the accompanying CD is sold out currently-I am fortunate to have one. It`s worth a look at the song list-which includes `Good Rockin Tonight`.
www.hoyhoy.com
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#2879150 - 09/14/17 08:58 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4995
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
"No rock&roll without solid body electric guitars" ?
HMmmm....
Somebody forgot to tell Carl Perkins, Chuck Berry and Scotty Moore!


You're arguing just to argue. If you really mean to dispute my contention that the generation which came of age in the 50s & 60s both invented rock & roll as well as the instrument to play that music, citing technical exceptions doesn't make the point. How far do you think rock & roll would have gotten without the solid body electric guitar? It would not have gotten loud, that much is for sure, & without loud, is it rock & roll?

Quote:
Maybe "Rocket 88" might be the first rock&roll record of NOTE, but still many others feel either Roy Brown's "Good Rockin' Tonight" from '47, or Jimmy Preston's "Rock The Joint" from '49 are more fitting.


And that's the only note worth stating. As I said, there are antecedents (some say Louis Jordan's Friday Fish Fry was rock & roll) and obviously nothing occurs in a vacuum, but musicologists consistently point to Rocket 88. I didn't make that up.

Quote:
One thing is crystal clear.....
That despite the countless solos handled by the saxophone over the years, there'd BE no rock&roll without the electric guitar, regardless hollow, semi-hollow or solid body.


Leo Fender & Les Paul's (and for your desire to argue minutiae, Paul Bigsby's) innovation allowed electric guitars to get extremely loud, & that was essential to rock & roll, & to my overall point, that the generations since the 50s/60s have not done their duty to create a popular music genre distinctly unique & different to that which preceded them.

Quote:
And I feel the guitar will survive,regardless of whether or not "modern" music puts it to use, either acoustic or electric, because it, and other stringed instruments, are more capable of being handled "personally". Meaning, it would seem difficult to kick back and relax cradling a keyboard synth or a table holding two turntables. wink
Whitefang


Of course the guitar will survive, because it is a fully realized, completely evolved instrument, capable, as no other instrument other than the piano, of simultaneously covering bass, harmony, & melodic functions. Eventually a generation will come along which invents its own highly distinct popular music, as ours did, & that music may possibly not be utterly dependent on the electric guitar. At which point the electric guitar will become as much of a niche instrument as the trumpet, viola, or vibraphone. It's had a good run.
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Scott Fraser

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#2879197 - 09/14/17 11:01 AM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
@ Skip, The Hoy Hoy band picture on your friend's website is more than likely the Joe Liggins band and the hoy hoy song is the Honey Dripper as I posted above which was recorded in 1945 which predates your friend's 1948 beginning date. It was also recorded by Cab Calloway in 1945. I think that when one listens to the sax leads you'll hear all of the 50's,60's rock and roll inspiration for sax improvisation (like the importance of the sax for R&R that Fang points out)...so they didn't really need guitars for rock and roll pre-Elvis LOL!

There is a fine line between jump blues, swing and Ryhthm and Blues of the mid to late 40's. Elvis' 1954 hit with That's Alright Mama(his first R&B revision) and his 2nd '54 hit recording of Good Rocking Tonight, is like the Jesus' birthdate for the biblical new testament and our BC calendar starting date reference. Contrary to your friend's belief, "I'm not ashamed to continue with the Elvis '54 legacy jam at Sun Studios as the actual beginning of what we call Rock and Roll" (paraphrasing). A ton of the Rock & Roll guitar parts in all of those early hits, were written by Scotty Moore. Elvis' early tunes came from many of the 48 through 53 R&B songs like the ones on your friend's list, to include his versions of Good Rockin Tonight and many others that were pre '54 like That's Alright, Hound Dog, Shake Rattle and Roll, etc. No argument here, and I accept Rocket 88 too as one of the 1st R&R songs as Scott pointed out even though the original Good Rockin Tonight predates it too. There are a ton of pre '54 R&B recordings that could be considered R&R and Elvis' recordings are proof of that. I still agree with your friend in many ways with the pre-Elvis R&R history... cool


Edited by Larryz (09/14/17 12:12 PM)
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#2879276 - 09/14/17 02:59 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9866
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Sorry, Scott. But it's "SATURDAY night fish fry" wink

But I get your point. But as far as the solid body guitar thing goes, I honestly believe it's the OTHER way around to whit:

The solid body electric guitar wouldn't have survived WITHOUT rock&roll. wink

But actually, we'll never really know what might have happened either way.

And I honestly believe the first "true" R'n'R tune got lost somewhere in all the shuffle.
Whitefang
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I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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#2879284 - 09/14/17 03:31 PM Re: Clapton: "Maybe the guitar is over?" [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: whitefang

The solid body electric guitar wouldn't have survived WITHOUT rock&roll. wink

But actually, we'll never really know what might have happened either way.

Whitefang


You are right in one case Fang, and that would be the Fender Jazzmaster...Joe Pass did play one for a short while but other than that it never got [picked up] as a jazz guitar. It was dying on the vine until the Ventures and the Beach Boys and others I have forgot like the Blue Caps, saved it as a surfing machine rock and roller...Fender then made the shorter scale Jaguar for the fast fingered [surf set]...But I think Scott is right on with those early loud solid bodies being a favorite for R&R and they seem to be hanging in there still. +1 Berry, Moore, Perkins and others used those old big boxes as they were easy to come by back in the day, but they could feed back if turned up too loud... cool
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